Israel/Gaza crisis deel 30

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 10:39 schreef Meki het volgende:

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 10:47 schreef B4CO het volgende:

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Hoi Meki,
Ga eens met een camera daar filmen
en neem een telraam mee

nog 1 dag en dan.... vakantie

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 10:48 schreef Evil_Jur het volgende:

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Ondanks het feit dat ik leraar ben, en ik het vrijwel onmogelijk acht dat jij zelfs met succes een VMBO-t opleiding hebt kunnen afronden, laat staan MBO-4, en ik je dus ook niet geloof...

Welke richting?

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 10:50 schreef Meki het volgende:

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ik heb MBO afgerond richting handel
en nu ben ik bezig met HBO economie voornamelijk richting Handel

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 10:51 schreef B4CO het volgende:

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Is school voor journalistiek niet meer voor jou?

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 10:51 schreef B4CO het volgende:

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Is school voor journalistiek niet meer voor jou?

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 10:52 schreef Evil_Jur het volgende:
oew, de EU smeekt om een staakt het vuren, nu maar hopen dat ze geen boze brief sturen

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Analysts say Israel's targeting of civilian and government infrastructure overshadows its strikes on the offices and rocket launchers of Hezbollah guerrillas, whose capture of two Israeli soldiers triggered the attacks.

"This is a classic strategic bombing campaign," said Stephen Biddle, a former head of military studies at the U.S. Army War College now at the Council on Foreign Relations. "What the Israelis are trying to do is pressure others into solving their problem for them, hence the targeting of civilian infrastructure."

But the growing list of civilian casualties — despite Israel's use of U.S.-designed precision-guided bombs — could turn Arabs and others against the Jewish state and its key ally, the U.S., and still not fatally wound Hezbollah, said military analysts.

Israeli Cabinet ministers have said the bombing aims to punish Lebanon and make the government understand the entire country will suffer if Hezbollah — which operates freely in the south — isn't reined in.

But Israeli military spokesman Capt. Jacob Dallal said Wednesday that Israel's bombing targets have direct military significance, since Hezbollah uses roads to transport its rockets and stores them in houses.

"A lot of the rockets are stored in people's homes in urban areas, fired from within villages and brought in from the Damascus-Beirut highway," Dallal said. "We are in day eight and the present condition of Hezbollah is unlike it was on day one. There's no comparison, their infrastructure, their weaponry have all been degraded considerably."

Classic strategic bombardment campaigns aim to flatten key economic resources and are usually designed to bend the targeted government to the will of its attacker or turn the populace against the government.

The United States has been one of the chief proponents of strategic bombardment, launching campaigns in Vietnam, Iraq and Serbia. In World War II it targeted factories, railroads, bridges, ports and, in some cases, residential neighborhoods.

James Dobbins, a former Bush administration envoy to Afghanistan who now heads military analysis for the Rand Corp., said choice of targets by Israel was the key and may be misdirected.

"The military rationale seems rather thin, since many of the targets have no conceivable relationship to Hezbollah," he said.

Hezbollah has little visible presence and few links to Lebanon's military. It is skilled at cloaking its actions from Israeli sensors, while its primitive rockets — which have also killed innocents — are fired from easy-to-hide mobile launchers. Their lack of a guidance system leaves them without a traceable electronic signature, said Mustafa Alani, a military analyst with Dubai-based Gulf Research Center.

"The Israelis face their classic problem: They cannot punish Hezbollah, which has no physical structure to destroy," Alani said.

Instead, Israel is bombing Hezbollah's Shiite Muslim power base, leveling villages and office and apartment blocks in Shiite neighborhoods in the eastern Bekaa Valley, southern Lebanon and south Beirut.

Dallal said the Israeli military bombs civilian buildings or homes if intelligence points to a Hezbollah office or munitions on the site.

"If there is a rocket stored in an apartment building and we attack the apartment in the building in which it is stored," he said. "We have the right to attack because of the missile."

The Brookings Institution's Michael O'Hanlon said the Israeli campaign most closely resembles the U.S.-led NATO bombardment of Serbia in 1999, in which a victory was achieved without a land invasion.

But the 78-day NATO bombardment of Serbia had clear international legitimacy and was more gradual. Air crews targeted Serbian military and communications sites first, and when that didn't persuade the Serb military to pull out of Kosovo, planes hit civilian and government targets.

Targeting was far more discriminatory. Despite tens of thousands of sorties, NATO is thought to have killed 500 civilians in the 2- 1/2 month campaign. By contrast, Israel has killed more than 250 Lebanese in eight days.

And the Serbian actions that triggered NATO's airstrikes were far larger than anything launched from Lebanon, Dobbins said.

"The Serbian government was responsible for the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo that drove a million people from their homes," Dobbins said, "while the Lebanese government is not responsible for the rocket attacks upon Israel."

The government, however, has been unable to fulfill a U.N. directive that Hezbollah be disarmed and that government forces take control of southern Lebanon.

Israel has also chosen to hit targets that the United States would probably reject, because of the danger of killing civilians, said Michele Flournoy, a former
Pentagon strategist now with CSIS.

U.S. war planners realize their campaigns lose international and domestic support when innocents are killed, Flournoy said.

"Our own population is very discriminating in the use of force. People here have bought into the idea of proportionality and the just war," Flournoy said.

For Israel, "it's a balancing act," Flournoy said. "They want to use enough force to get through to the terrorists, while at the same time staying within international norms, so as not to become a pariah."

Israel's history, however, has produced a defense posture that views its enemies as fundamental and existential threats to the country's very survival.

"The airports and bridges don't belong to Hezbollah," Alani said. "People may understand their (Israeli) reactions for the first few days. But world leaders will soon say 'we don't see any links between your attacks and the threat you face.'"

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 09:58 schreef Glasnosteraar het volgende:

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

edit: wel de moeite waard om even door te nemen, weet je meteen waarom sommige users hier liever niet over praten

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 11:37 schreef Glasnosteraar het volgende:
ik begin me nu af te vragen of Israel met het vernietigen van die bunker nu Nasrallah te grazen hebben genomen hebben, of niet.
Iemand iets nieuws gehoord?

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 11:27 schreef Meki het volgende:
Intussen zijn er advertenties in kranten

[afbeelding]

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 11:39 schreef Boomstam het volgende:

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hezbollah zei dat ze een moskee in aanbouw hebben gebombadeert
en dat niemand gewond was.
maar het is wel sterk dat je 23ton explosieven gebruikt voor een moskee.....

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 11:39 schreef Boomstam het volgende:

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hezbollah zei dat ze een moskee in aanbouw hebben gebombadeert
en dat niemand gewond was.
maar het is wel sterk dat je 23ton explosieven gebruikt voor een moskee.....

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 11:46 schreef Glasnosteraar het volgende:

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er wordt beweerd dat er nauwelijks hezbollah leden gedood worden, maar je ziet dat Israel vrij succesvol is in de Westbank en Gaza met het liquideren van dergelijke types. Ik vraag me af of die Hezbollah of de benen heeft genomen, of de pan in gehakt worden.
We zullen wel zien wanneer Nasrallah weer een video-appearance maakt, of niet.

die opmerking over die moskee is wel geestig, zag op Geenstijl; "Aha! dus daar zijn moskeeën voor..."

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 11:27 schreef Demophon het volgende:

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands

Nou, na dat gelezen te hebben (tezamen wat de Europese nationalisten en communisten deden) kan ik mij gelijk voorstellen waarom de Joden een eigen staat kregen van de VN.

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 11:46 schreef opinionr het volgende:
11:51 Lebanese PM: Hezbollah created `state within a state,` must be disarmed (AP)

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 11:59 schreef -scorpione- het volgende:
Ah, Libanon trekt zijn mond eens open, heel goed.

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 11:52 schreef Boomstam het volgende:

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ja volgens peretz ofzo, zou hezbollah liegen over aantal slachtoffers.
Hij roept ook op om die cijfers niet te vertrouwen.

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:06 schreef Meki het volgende:

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dat moet Peretz niet zeggen

om de cijfers niet te vertrouwen

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:10 schreef Boomstam het volgende:

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dus volgens jouw spreek de hezbollah de waarheid en dient aan geen van alle cijfers getwijfelt te worden......
dan weten we dat ook weer

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:15 schreef Frances het volgende:
Vanmiddag in Amsterdam een pro-israel demonstratie. Komt allen!!!!!!!!!! Ik stap zo op de trein Am Yisrael chai

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:15 schreef Frances het volgende:
Vanmiddag in Amsterdam een pro-israel demonstratie. Komt allen!!!!!!!!!! Ik stap zo op de trein Am Yisrael chai

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:18 schreef Meki het volgende:

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om zo de doden van kinderen en burgers te rechtvaardigen

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:18 schreef Meki het volgende:

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om zo de doden van kinderen en burgers te rechtvaardigen

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:22 schreef Pietverdriet het volgende:

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Kijk!
Zie een moslim radicaliseren!
Hoe gaan je vlieglessen, meki?

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:27 schreef ASroma het volgende:

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:28 schreef PLAE@ het volgende:

Rellen ?

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 10:48 schreef schatje het volgende:

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bron

Doderok, nog even over jouw eerdere bewering dat Hezbollah geen gebruikt maakt van menselijke schilden. De tekst hierboven is ook van toepassing op hen aangezien 1- het hoofdkantoor was gevestigd in een woonwijk en 2- omdat er raketten worden afgevuurd vanaf installaties in woonwijken.

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Article 58, Precautions Against the Effects of Attacks, creates a duty against the passive creation of proximity human shields: “Parties to a conflict, to the extent feasible, shall remove the civilian population and material under their control from the vicinity of military objectives, avoid locating military objectives within or proximate to densely populated areas, and take other necessary precautions to safeguard the civilian population and civilian objects under their control against the dangers of military operations.”

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Given the modern nature of war and the transition of most societies to an industrialized economy with urban centers as their focal point, it seems likely that legitimate military targets will be located near civilians or civilian objects simply out of efficiency or because of urban growth. The Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocol I still mandate a duty on a party to a conflict to remove civilians from such an area, but that might not be practical in all situations.

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On 21 June 1989, the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs received a letter from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations Office at Geneva informing the Swiss Federal Council "that the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization, entrusted with the functions of the Government of the State of Palestine by decision of the Palestine National Council, decided, on 4 May 1989, to adhere to the Four Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 and the two Protocols additional thereto".

On 13 September 1989, the Swiss Federal Council informed the States that it was not in a position to decide whether the letter constituted an instrument of accession, "due to the uncertainty within the international community as to the existence or non-existence of a State of Palestine".

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Article 51 notably does not excuse considering the presence of human shields during the targeting process

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Targets protected by human shields might still be attacked subject to the attacking party’s obligations under international law to minimize collateral damage. Collateral damage usually occurs when attacks targeting military objectives cause civilian casualties and damage to civilian objects. It often occurs when military targets are located in urban areas.

Principle of military necessity. Any attack must be justified by military necessity, which means attacks should be limited to legitimate military targets such as armed forces and civilian combatants; positions or installations occupied by armed forces, as well as objectives that are directly contested in battle; and military installations such as barracks, war ministries, munitions or fuel dumps, storage yards for vehicles, airfields, rocket launch ramps, and naval bases. Legitimate but not purely military targets are commonly referred to as dual-use targets and include infrastructure, communications, and military-industrial, military research, and energy production facilities.

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A more succinct definition of targeting is the use of “measures of regulated force not forbidden by international law which are indispensable for securing the prompt submission of the enemy, with the least possible expenditures of economic resources.”
Failure to adhere to this principle could have serious consequences. The Rome Statute for the ICC lists “extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly” as a grave breach.

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:28 schreef PLAE@ het volgende:

Rellen ?

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:36 schreef ASroma het volgende:
ff vraagje: is het niet zo dat libanon langzamerhand israel voorbij streefde qua economie enzo?

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:36 schreef ASroma het volgende:
ff vraagje: is het niet zo dat libanon langzamerhand israel voorbij streefde qua economie enzo?

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:36 schreef ASroma het volgende:
ff vraagje: is het niet zo dat libanon langzamerhand israel voorbij streefde qua economie enzo?

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Op donderdag 20 juli 2006 12:43 schreef Pietverdriet het volgende:
* Pietverdriet ...........

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