Israel & Libanon/Gaza crisis #24

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:50 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Ja joh, en je denkt dat elke Libanees weet dat zn buurman wel of niet een hezbollah aanhanger is? En waarom bombarderen ze dan de luchthaven? Overduidelijk een civiel en publiek doel, net als de haven, de wegen en de bruggen. Disproportionaliteit heet dat.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:54 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Nou ik vind 200+ onschuldige slachtoffers in 1 week nou niet weinig.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:55 schreef klez het volgende:

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Omdat sommige idioten oproepen aan moslims om een heilige oorlog te gaan vechten aldaar. Dat wil je als Israel voorkomen.
Wat pas echt schandalig is, is zoals Hezbollah ziekenhuizen bestoken.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:56 schreef klez het volgende:

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Het is verschrikkelijk maar in historisch perspectief ongeveer gelijk aan nihil.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:57 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Dat vind je schandalig, maar alle toevoerswegen afsluiten (geen voedsel, kleding etc) vind je niet schandalig? Meet niet met 2 maten, dat is vreselijk zwak.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:50 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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The hard way is de organisatie zelf aanpakken. Zeg jij het me maar, hoeveel hezbollah strijders zijn er gedood door Israel van de week?

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:57 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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En waarom zou je het in historisch perspectief willen plaatsen. We hebben het over nu, het heden. Dit soort moorden kan je niet relativeren, al helemaal omdat het onschuldigen zijn.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:58 schreef klez het volgende:

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Als je moet kan je echt wel 4 dagen zonder voedsel. Om het over kleding niet te hebben. Overdrijf niet zo. Inderdaad van een heel andere orde dan een raket op een ziekenhuis.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:58 schreef klez het volgende:

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Als je moet kan je echt wel 4 dagen zonder voedsel. Om het over kleding niet te hebben. Overdrijf niet zo. Inderdaad van een heel andere orde dan een raket op een ziekenhuis.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:59 schreef Incomplete het volgende:

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Volgens mij veel te weinig. Maar wat niet is kan nog komen.
En 200+ burgerslachtoffers waar je zo over valt, vallen nog net niet elke dag
in Irak door godsdienstfanatici, moslimsbroeders nietwaar, dan is het goed.

Het gedrag van Israel is zeer terughoudend imo anders waren er wel meer
slachtoffers te betreuren, wat niet wegneemt dat elk leven er een te veel is.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:59 schreef Incomplete het volgende:

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Volgens mij veel te weinig. Maar wat niet is kan nog komen.
En 200+ burgerslachtoffers waar je zo over valt, vallen nog net niet elke dag
in Irak door godsdienstfanatici, moslimsbroeders nietwaar, dan is het goed.

Het gedrag van Israel is zeer terughoudend imo anders waren er wel meer
slachtoffers te betreuren, wat niet wegneemt dat elk leven er een te veel is.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 17:01 schreef PLAE@ het volgende:

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Boeit mij het nou of een dode in z'n huisje zit of in t ziekenhuis ligt.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 17:02 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Zo kan je elke moord op een Israelische Jood relativeren door te verwijzen naar het Westen en de 2e Wereldoorlog, die systematisch 6 miljoen Joden hebben vermoord.

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Sharon said on Wednesday that the right of return is a "recipe for the destruction of Israel," and Israel would not accept it. "This is something Israel insists on and sees as a condition for continuing the process," Sharon said in a radio interview broadcast on Independence Day.

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Under Israeli law, the acquisition of nationality is one of the few areas in which the law differentiates between Jews and non-Jews. The Law of Return grants every Jew the right to go to Israel as an oleh (Jewish immigrant), and the Israel Nationality Law automatically confers Israeli nationality on every oleh upon entering the country unless he specifies otherwise. The law even provides that a Jew who expresses his desire to settle in Israel may be granted nationality by virtue of the Law of Return even before he physically immigrates, a clause which allows the Israeli government to issue travel documents to refugees in emergencies.

Article 4A of the Law of Return extends the Jewish rights to family members: "(a) The rights of a Jew under this Law and the rights of an oleh under the Nationality Law, 5712-1952, as well as the rights of an oleh under any other enactment, are also vested in a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew, except for a person who has been a Jew and has voluntarily changed his religion."

The next section makes it clear that the family member need not even be living: "(b) It shall be immaterial whether or not a Jew by whose right a right under subsection (a) is claimed is still alive and whether or not he has immigrated to Israel."

Article 4B provides the definition of a Jew: "For the purposes of this Law, 'Jew' means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion."

Section 5 of the law allows the Minister of the Interior to grant visas and citizenship to minors without their parents consent, a section that has recently been used for minors from Ukraine, Moldova, and former Yugoslavia who decided to flee without their families.

By contrast, an Arab or any other person not qualifying as a Jew under the Law of Return may acquire Israeli nationality in one of five ways detailed in the Nationality Law and summarized below.

1. Nationality by residence in Israel
Subject to certain qualifications, this section of the law grants Israeli citizenship to former Palestinian citizens who are currently residents of Israel and have lived in Israel since its creation on May 14, 1948, or have entered Israel legally between that time and July 14, 1952, the date the Nationality Law went into effect.
2. Nationality by birth
Nationality by reason of birth is given to any person whose father or mother was an Israeli national at the time of his birth. This provision holds true regardless of where the person in question may happen to have been born.
3. Naturalization by birth on Israeli territory in addition to 5 years immediate prior residence in Israel.
This provision grants Israeli nationality to persons who are born on Israeli territory who meet these qualifications: apply for Israeli citizenship between their 18th and 21st birthdays, have 5 consecutive years of residence in Israel immediately prior to filing a request for citizenship, have no criminal convictions for violation of security regulations, and have not been sentenced to jail for 5 years or more for violation of any other type of law.
4. Naturalization
A person 18 years of age or older may acquire Israeli nationality by naturalization if he meets these criteria: (1) is currently in Israel, (2) has been in Israel for 3 of the 5 preceding years, (3) intends to settle in the country (4) has some knowledge of Hebrew (former Palestinian citizens are exempt from this provision), (5) renounces any and all foreign nationalities, and (6) takes an oath of loyalty to the State of Israel. Completion of all of the above requirements is not essential in all instances, however, as the Minister of the Interior at his discretion has the power (for a special reason) to waive requirements (1), (2),(4), and (5) above.
5. By grant from the Minister of the Interior to certain categories of minors.
The law provides, in addition, for a discretionary grant of citizenship to minors who are not Israeli nationals but who are residents of Israel.

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Demography is the underlying force driving Israel's policy toward the Palestinians. It determines political debate over the Jewish state's identity and borders. And it is the unspoken, but crucial factor behind Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's decisions to unilaterally withdraw Israeli settlers from the Gaza strip, to build a "separation barrier" in the West Bank, and more recently, to approve a controversial law preventing any Palestinian who marries an Israeli from becoming an Israeli citizen. All these measures are aimed at preserving the Jewish majority, seen as a pillar of long-term national survival. And they are forcing Israelis to address head-on the most fundamental and delicate questions about their national identity.

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Since the beginning of the al-Aqsa Intifada, on 29 September 2000, all family unification procedures have ceased. The PA accepts new requests but Israel does not process them. Only in rare cases does Israel approve such requests.

Tens of thousands of Palestinian residents of the Occupied Territories are married to non-residents. According to this policy, these residents must file a request for family unification to enable them to live in the Occupied Territories with their spouses. Over the years, permits for family unification have been granted sparsely and according to unknown criteria. Israel's rigid policy compels the resident spouses to emigrate if they want to live together with their spouses.

Israel refuses to recognize the right of Palestinians to family unification in the Occupied Territories and considers approval of a request for family unification an act of benevolence. This position is dictated by political considerations, whose objective is to change the demographics of the Occupied Territories by blocking immigration of spouses of residents of the Occupied Territories into the area and by encouraging emigration of divided Palestinian families.

Israel's policy totally ignores the social reality existing in the Occupied Territories, in which marriage between residents and relatives from outside the area is extremely widespread. In employing this policy, Israel forces residents to make a cruel choice between family separation and leaving their homeland. The Israeli authorities, supported by the High Court of Justice, inflict ongoing suffering on hundreds of thousands of persons, restrict the development of children by violating their right to live with both their parents, create family instability, and rend the family unit.

Israel offers two possibilities to Palestinian residents of the Occupied Territories who are married to non-residents: one, living separately and maintain a truncated family life, meeting with their spouses only during short visits in the Occupied Territories that require obtaining a permit from Israel, and two, moving elsewhere, abandon their homes, family, and homeland.

Because of the obstacles inherent in each of these possibilities, many non-resident spouses chose to remain in the Occupied Territories illegally after their visitor's permits expired. Remaining there compels them to live an underground existence, forever fearful of fines and deportation.

The Oslo Accords did not lead to improvement in Israel's family-unification policy in the Occupied Territories, although the Interim Agreement expresses the parties' undertaking "to promote and upgrade family reunification" in order to "reflect the spirit of the peace process." Israel continues to have decisive authority in determining which families will, or will not, be allowed to live together in the Occupied Territories.

Israel and the Palestinian Authority currently have more than 24,000 pending requests for family unification in the West Bank. If the quota remains as is, it will take until 2006 to meet these requests. Requests filed today will be approved almost a decade from now.

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On 31 July 2003, the government enshrined that decision in statute – the Nationality and Entry into Israel (Temporary Order) Law, 5763 – 2003. The statute prohibits Israelis married to residents of the Occupied Territories, or who marry them following implementation of the law, to live with their spouse in Israel. The statute also harms the children of residents of East Jerusalem who were born in the Occupied Territories, and forbids the ministry to register them as residents of Israel. The statute, which was valid for one year, empowered the government to extend it with Knesset approval. On 18 July 2004, the statute was extended until 5 February 2005.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 17:03 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Als je thuis sterft omdat je geen voedsel meer kan vinden is het veel minder erg dan dat als je in het ziekenhuis zit en doodgaat.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 17:03 schreef Incomplete het volgende:

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Volgens mij is er in de voorgaande topics al zo vaak gevraagd WO2 erbuiten te laten.
En nee, dit was geen relevante verwijzing van je.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 16:57 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Dat vind je schandalig, maar alle toevoerswegen afsluiten (geen voedsel, kleding etc) vind je niet schandalig? Meet niet met 2 maten, dat is vreselijk zwak.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 17:02 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Zo kan je elke moord op een Israelische Jood relativeren door te verwijzen naar het Westen en de 2e Wereldoorlog, die systematisch 6 miljoen Joden hebben vermoord.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 17:04 schreef PLAE@ het volgende:

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Nee of de bom nou op t ziekenhuis of op je huis valt boeit toch niet

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 17:04 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Pardon? Historisch perspectief? De verwijzing naar Irak was wel relevant?

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 17:02 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Zo kan je elke moord op een Israelische Jood relativeren door te verwijzen naar het Westen en de 2e Wereldoorlog, die systematisch 6 miljoen Joden hebben vermoord.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 17:05 schreef damian5700 het volgende:

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Het is de enige mogelijkheid om de raketinstallaties te onmantelen en Hezbollah te ontwapenen. Het doel is het tandenloos maken van Hezbollah en niet het op een zo hard mogelijke manier de bevolking van Libanon te treffen, want het IAF zou dan een veel hoger rendement kunnen bereiken.

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Op dinsdag 18 juli 2006 17:07 schreef Incomplete het volgende:

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Als het gaat over extremistische-moslims die geen waarde aan het leven hechten
vrij relevant.