Duin

Ik heb een tijdje geleden alle 6 de delen gelezen. Ik kan dit boek erg aanraden voor de Sci-fi lezers, of lezers die zich meer intereseren voor psychologische achtergronden van karakters.

Wie heeft ze trouwens nog meer gelezen?

Dune......Frank Herbert (Duin in het nederlands, 6 delen)

Irritant geschreven?
Brilliant geschreven, Herbert maakt goed duidelijk de wanhoop die Mua'dib meemaakt als "helderziende"

Ik persoonlijk vond de eerste 4 boeken het leukste, deel 5 en 6 zijn wel aardig maar horen er toch niet echt bij, het "duin" gevoel is daar ook niet zo sterk meer aanwezig.

Deel 4, inderdaad deze mistte veel van het origineel, maar ik vond het een enorm leuk boek. God-Keizer zijn, en dan zo bewust zijn van je eigen (on)sterfelijkheid en de wereld om je heen. Brilliant weergegeven door Herbert, vindt ik.

Bleeh
Voorspel tot Duin miste alles wat zijn voorgangers hadden. Diepgang.

Neen het was een leuk boek dat makkelijk weglas, maar het miste iets.

Het begin vond ik vreselijk al mijn favoritiete figuren waren verand in hun tegenpolen.
Het bleef overal een beetje oppervlakkig sommige gedeeltes waren heel goed en andere waren gewoon weg slecht, zo ergerde ik me dood aan de gedeeltes met Kynes, en vond ik het mysterie rond het Ruimtegilde weer enorm boeiend.

Duin -1 is leuk om te lezen maar de andere delen zijn "helaas" beter. Als Duin-fan heb ik het boek in 2 dagen verslonden....hypocriet ik weet het...

Ik wacht nu af tot Duin: Huis Harkonnen.
nog maar 1 jaartje......

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Op donderdag 3 april 2003 18:10 schreef Martin_Jager het volgende:
Wat ik bedoel met dat 7e boek is dat boek dat grotendeels door Frank Herbert zelf geschreven is, en niet door zijn zoon.

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Op het zevende boek van Frank Herbert kun je erg lang wachten. Een algemeen bekend feit is dat het zevende boek had moeten worden geschreven, de opzet van de zes delen wijst op een zevende deel.

de eerste drie boeken beschrijven hoe het vierde boek tot stand kwam, hoe het universum zich in het vierde boek liet gaan, en de delen daarna gaan over de nasleep van de gebeurtenissen in het vierde boek.

3-1-2 ====> 3-1-3

Overigens eindigde het zesde boek met een open einde, een verschrikkelijk open einde.

Frank Herbert stierf voordat hij aan het zevende boek was begonnen, of terwijl hij het al aan het schrijven was, niemand weet het precies, het enige dat zeker is is dat als er al een zevende boek word gepubliceerd het geschreven zal zijn door Kevin J. Anderson en Brian Herbert.

Moge Shaitan genade hebben met onze ziel.

misschien een leuke aanrader, onlangs is het boek Dreamer of Dune, geschreven door Brian Herbert. Dit boek vertelt vanuit een uiterst persoonlijk standpunt het levens- verhaal van Frank Herbert, het resultaat is een erg persoonlijke biografie.

En voor de Dune fanaten raad ik Eye aan, van de meester zelf, een verhalenbundel, met daarin een hoofdstuk gewijd aan Dune.

ik vond deel vier een meesterwerk, de toon is veel dramatischer en filosofischer dan de eerste drie delen, het is het middelpunt van de serie.

Vijf en zes vond ik de eerste keer erg vreemd om te lezen, ik voelde me niet meer met deze twee verbonden als dat ik me met de eerste vier delen verbonden voelde, maar uiteindelijk waren deze twee delen toch zeker de moeite waard, ze beginnen namelijk een compleet nieuw hoofdstuk, ze openen een deur naar eindeloos veel mogelijkheden.

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Op vrijdag 6 juni 2003 13:22 schreef LunaChick het volgende:
Heeft iemand House Harkonnen, House Atreides en er is volgens mij ook een House Corrino gelezen?
Geschreven door zoon Herbert (ik heb alleen de eerste 2 gelezen), maar ik was erg onder de indruk van zijn stijlvastheid.

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Van House Atreides tot aan The Butlerian Jihad... ze zijn allemaal even slecht. Gemaakt voor tieners die geen diepgang behoeven en die niet in staat zijn om zelf een beeld te vormen van zaken, die alles voorgekauwd moeten hebben.

maw

slechte, hoogstens middelmatig, boeken.

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Op vrijdag 6 juni 2003 13:33 schreef LunaChick het volgende:
Ehm, wat ik bedoelde, is dat hij de vertelstijl van zijn vader goed vast wist te houden.

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WTF!?

Frank Herbert torent als een reus boven zijn zoon uit qua stijl. Kleine Herbert mocht willen dat hij ooit zichzelf mag meten met zijn vaders navelpluis.

Brian spreekt de eerste regel uit Duin tegen, waar staat dat Paul Atreides geboren en getogen is op de planeet Caladan, door Jessica in House Corrino te laten bevallen op Kaitan, onder het toeziend oog van de Keizer en zijn waarheidszeggers.

Axlotl tanks? Weet je nog dat good ol' Frank nooit heeft verteld hoe die onheilspellende dingen eruit zien... in geen van zijn zes boeken. Maar wist je dat Brian, die aarsmade, voor opheldering wil zorgen en een van de meest zorgvuldig bewaarde geheimen en mysteries verknalt door gewoon droog te zeggen:

"een axlotl tank is niets meer of minder dan ...."

Qua stijl staat hij juist ontiegelijk ver van zijn vader verwijdert... lees ook eens http://frontpage.fok.nl/review.fok?doc=649 de officiele Fok boek-review, waar een aantal punten instaan over Brian's stijl, of de afwezigheid daarvan.

"ik houd van jou"
"Nou Schat, het is goed dat je het zegt, want anders zou ik er nooit achter zijn gekomen"

"Mijn hemel vrouwmensch, is dat een vertoon van emotie die jij jegens mij koestert?"
"Ik vrees van wel manlief, onze liefde is legendarisch, maar onze spontaniteit niet."

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Op vrijdag 6 juni 2003 13:58 schreef LunaChick het volgende:

Forgive me, sensei

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You are forgiven... now go forth sister and buyeth New X-men till your cup runneth over

ik zou zeggen quote die teef maar eens... want ik geloof er niets van.

de eerste twee hoofdstukken van

Hunters of Dune

staan online op de officiele website. www.dunenovels.com Wees gewaarschuwd, het dynamische duo heeft ook dit deel geschreven

_{mijn topic is mondo oud}

spoilers

mijn review van Hunters of Dune:
part one

Why Hunters of Dune sucks…


I have often read the original novels written by Frank Herbert, they are my bible, a glistening beacon of hope amidst the chaos and the turmoil of my existence. Frank was a visionary, a great man who saw the pitfalls of humanity and warned us against ourselves.

This might appear to some as a sign that I can no longer judge the new novels objectively. Those people are, of course, wrong.

I picked up Hunters of Dune not expecting anything great, but still something better than the horrible shit that they published under the banner of “Legends of Dune”, which shouldn’t be too hard, a thought that gave me hope and comfort as I handed over my money to the pimply teenager, slightly obese, behind the counter of my local bookstore. I never expected it to be as good as the original series, but I still had some hopes left after finding myself horribly disappointed with the six novels Brian and Kevin wrote before Hunters of Dune. After all, there were notes, and an outline, and with a cliff-hanger like that you couldn’t possibly screw this up.

As you have guessed by now, they managed to screw up royally. The book is a filthy piece of heathen shit that can be blamed for any and all ills that will befall you after purchasing it. My wife left me… because I bought Hunters of Dune. I lost my left testicle… because I read Hunters of Dune. Starving children in Biafra are dying… because Brian and Kevin wrote Hunters of Dune.

You’re shaking your head and telling yourself “This guy is full of it, it can’t be that bad!”. Unfortunately, that would be an excellent example of self-deception, because yes, it’s simple, Hunters of Dune really is that bad. I can twist and turn and think of a million things to say, and none of them would be positive about Hunters of Dune.

Let’s start with throwing in some really lovely spoilers. You are warned. Don’t whine, don’t cry, don’t complain, consider yourself lucky, reading beyond this point might actually save your life by preventing you from picking up that vile hell bound novel.

You always wanted to know why Marty and Daniel were, enigmatic, seemingly quite powerful, blessed with knowledge and abilities that went beyond our understanding. Formidable foes introduced in a deceptive fashion, in the form of an old man and old woman obsessed with maintaining their garden.

The speculation dies today. Some said it was a meta textual element. The man was Frank, the woman was Beverly, the love of his life. Parental figures who surveyed the events of the last two books and in retrospect, through memories, the previous four books

Marty and Daniel are Ominus and Erasmus. You know, the imbecilic machines from the previous trilogy written by those two greased of cockheads. Ominus as a character is of the simplistic kind. Swirling around wearing a black cape and twirling his dastardly evil moustache, while plotting to destroy humanity. His motivation for doing so never reaches the level of cartoon-character, he’s stuck at the level of utter retard, so his motivation for being evil is simply because he is designed to be evil. Evil for the sake of it. Evil, in every shape and way… just look at his obviously evil name “Omnius” which sounds an awful lot like “Ominous

Erasmus always was the more well rounded of the two, a robot obsessed with discovering the essence of being alive, of being human. Such a lovely theme to explore, had it not been that the authors decided to make Erasmus into a sadistic genius, a robotic version of Mengele. Actually, come to think of it… Erasmus really is a left over from an era Frank Herbert single-handedly killed when he wrote Dune… namely the era of horribly flat and cliché pulp-science fiction. Brian I think Asimov called, he wants his basic robot-plot back. Well that’s not really fair, at least Asimov equipped his universe, populated by robots, with logic and sanity, which is something lacking in the prequels and now the seventh Dune novel written by Brian and Kevin.

This also makes for a darling little inconsistency, by the way, as we learned in the sixth book that the two strangers were face dancers, or some sort of super advanced version of a face dancer. With them talking about the Tleilaxu masters and escaping the mould after absorbing enough memories and lives of others.

As the two baboons blunder through the story it becomes clear that they have no intention to acknowledge what’s clearly visible on the pages of the last book Frank wrote. So basically, that enigmatic cliff hanger we were left with in Chapterhouse Dune… it’s not really important, because Hunters of Dune doesn’t really follow up on that at all.

Now the great big threat is revealed at the end of the story, although it’s painfully obvious throughout the novel that the machines are the big bad the Honored Matres fled from

This leaves us with the suspension of disbelief at the situation. Namely that the Scattering is pointless and that the entire Empire, before and during the Scattering (as technically it’s still something that’s taking place according to the original novels) has been surrounded by the Machine Empire

Get this… a galactic empire spanning millions of worlds, there are even hints that it’s a multi-galactic empire, has been surrounded by machines who now want to destroy us. That means we are surrounded left, right, up, down, every which way… including Sunday. Pretty impressive… a bit too impressive, a bit too convenient, a bit too impossible perhaps

But why am I complaining about the machines when I could just as easily spend my time complaining about the moronic deus ex machine that is Norma Cenva. Yes people, Norma Cenva the ridiculously hyped up super cow from the Legends series (are we seeing a pattern here?) is back with a vengeance

Remember the original six novels? The most extraordinary thing we encountered was Leto II merged with the sandtrout. Remember him? The axis of the Dune-universe? Leto II was blessed with the ability to see the future, and cursed with it as well, he took on the job to protect humanity to ensure it survived, he created the Golden Path and forced humanity to follow it. But still in the end he was a mortal being, and he died. Pearls of his awareness escaping might have been a figurative phrase, it might have been literal, either way, he died and left the Universe to us lowly humans

Well Leto II is nothing but a mediocre whipped little bitch before the might and glory of Norma Cenva. Norma, of course, rearranged her molecules, was able to project terrifying force, and I think there’s something there about her also being a pyrokinetic and prescient. We should also remember that even before she entered the Marvel Universe of insanely overpowered beings, she was also a genius. In Hunters of Dune that bitch is now the Oracle of Time, a disembodied being that is able to see beyond where Leto II dared to see. Now remember Leto was actually a victim of his vision, he hated his prescience, he cursed it, as it tied him to horrible life, nigh unbearable. His prescience was limited, he could see into the future and he did so in order to check on his Golden Path, comforted by the fact that he saw humanity survive, but his vision was never absolute. He chose to look, and what he saw condemned him to his existence

Happy shiny Norma on the other hand is now literally a god-like being who can travel the multi-verse, that is, she can travel to alternate realities and back, and has a vision of the future that puts that of Leto to shame, not only that, where every single character in the original novels suffered horribly because they were bound by superhuman powers, Norma is basically untouched by the insanity that befell Leto and Paul and even the Sisterhood and the Guild. Norma is the best and the brightest character the Dune universe has to offer

…and Frank Herbert never mentioned her once as being the Oracle of Time, no she was nothing but a simple footnote.

Norma Cenva is a Mary Sue, some sick twisted need to inject something bigger and better and stronger into the story, as if to leave a mark on the entire thing. Brian and Kevin have succeeded in doing just that, by making her character so ungodly powerful that she overshadows everything else in the Dune Universe.

Part two

So here we are let’s leave the past where it is shall we, just for a moment.

Let’s look at the characters we already knew from the previous novels. Duncan, Sheeana, Murbella, Teg, and the rest of the Scooby Gang.

You’ll notice that they have suffered some brain damage between the novels, and in some cases a dire case of amnesia. It’s not just a subtle difference in style that sets these characters apart from how Frank wrote them, it’s the glaring obvious flaw in how they are portrayed that sets them apart. Point in case, Duncan just dropped 50 points on the IQ-scale and dragged his fellow characters with him to the horrible depth of intellectual mediocrity.

They landed with such a blow that Duncan and Sheeana lost some vital memories involving Teg and his newly found abilities, which is quite alright, because Teg has noticed the amnesia and decided to pretend that he still has a secret as far as his super speed goes. With the same grace Clark Kent exhibits when he struggles with his alter ego Superman, Teg pulls off his secret by hiding it with such intelligent and cunning excuses as “I took a different elevator, and what do you know, my elevator was faster than yours.”

Luckily for him the lack of intelligence keeps him safe from any unwanted questions that might arise. Proud as a four-year-old sub-defective that he has managed to construct a lie clever enough to convince the mortally brain damaged Duncan.

But let’s not worry about such details… let’s focus on the Gholas.

This novel has them in great abundance. More gholas than you can shake a stick at really. Paul, Chani, Vladimir Harkonnen, Thuffir Hawat… you get the picture.

Now what was it again in God-Emperor that was so important about Siona… oh yes now I remember, Siona was the result of a breeding program, she had genes that could not be detected by people with prescience. She was invisible to the oracular powers that kept the universe in an iron grip.

Now do you think that someone would notice a ghola Paul Atreides? Or someone as infamous as Baron Harkonnen? Someone like Leto II… who incidentally has also been brought back to life, only this time he’s a shapeshifting half-man half-worm who takes a bite out of one of the Bene Gesserit sisters on board of the No-Ship… did that sound stupid, retarded perhaps? Well it’s what really happens, yes Leto II is brought back and he can now shapeshift into a Sandworm…

But back to the plot hole. We end up with two Pauls one of them is raised by the Ghola of Baron Harkonnen, which I’m sure is somehow very deep and poignant, in that hopelessly infantile and ultimately tragic way that marks ironic role reversals and painfully convoluted and forced plot twists. This Paul, lovingly called Paolo, (such a clever and intelligent play on words don’t you think) grows up to be a bit evil, while the other is somehow the Good One.
Now correct me if I’m wrong but don’t these resurrected characters stick out like a sore thumb for anyone with prescience who has allowed himself to see into this timeframe? You think one Paul Ghola would ring an alarm bell with someone like Leto II, but don’t you think TWO of them would upset at least the Guild?

Oh and get this… the Baron has Alia in his head, as part of a yet to be explained plot element, but I’m sure it’s meant as some prepubescent attempt at poetic justice, or a misguided idea of what Irony is all about.

Meanwhile Murbella has her hands full trying to establish her New Sisterhood, which I think is actually called the New Sisterhood. Kind of silly, as in ten years, or four years, or twenty years that whole New thing sounds like something utterly redundant and mongoloid.

Not that it matters… as Murbella is now Mother Commander and she has an elite fighting force named the Valkyries. Did that make you cringe? Well get used to it, because repetition is something we’ll get to sometime after this soulless rant on characters grown stupid.

Remember Odrade, the one who set everything in motion basically in Chapterhouse. Sheeana and Murbella both share her mind in their Other Memories, they both know her plan, yet for some strange reason both ladies seem to ignore the knowledge they both share.

And while speaking of Other Memory, did you know that Murbella has Serena Butler as part of her Other Memory? Again a direct link to Legends of Dune. You see how it all goes round, isn’t it clever? Isn’t it utterly revolting in a way that makes you want to decapitate a cat and vomit in its skull and corpse? Now I’m not saying you are less human, or a retard, or stupid if you actually enjoy this kind of tepid shit… oh wait who am I kidding, I AM calling you stupid, retarded, and subhuman if you enjoy this example of pure unadulterated brown ass-juice. Was that harsh? Big whoop, suck it up princess, the ride ain’t over yet.

Let’s leave the characters and the lame ass non-story for what it is… and let’s focus on Style.

Style, a lot of people write, and a lot of people do so in such a fashion that it’s not worth being published. However, some people manage to gain an audience, they manage to get published for some unholy reason, without having a shred of artistic talent. Brian and Kevin are such people.

Kevin of course has often told us about how gruesomely hard his job is. Talking long walks with a recorder reciting his part of the story and then sitting down to transcribe it, or rather have someone else transcribe it. This alone tells me that these books weren’t exactly written by an author with a heart for the franchise. You’d want to do some solid research, search for references in other books, most notably the previous books written by the original author, trivial stuff like that, the stuff that could easily be described as “details” and “coherency”. Alas we are not that lucky, and Kevin slaves away with his recorder in hand.

Brian and Kevin are writing for a new audience, and audience that demands spectacular space battles, flashy scenes, fights, and other special effects. They also tend to write for an audience with ADD and seven other concentration disorders. The repetition in Hunters of Dune is sickening.

It’s not that we’re all retards Brian, we read the originals and we can put two and two together, we can actually remember things that happened five pages ago, or even things that happened in a previous novel. Unlike you and Kevin, who seem obsessed with summarizing everything mere pages after you’ve had it happen the first time.

You could scrap half the novel and then you’d still find plenty of repetition to get angry about. Page, after page, after page are we treated to summaries and recaps. It’s not only annoying it’s also quite redundant. No wonder they can fill up two novels each around 500+ pages, because between all the repeats there’s hardly any story.

And it’s not a cute kind of repetition either, it’s the lame ass moronic kind, where whole lines are lifted from one part to appear over and over and over again. If I have to read the phrase “Gaudy capes and leotards” one more time I’m going to kill something soft and cute.

Now between the repetition is action. Mind numbingly stupid and unoriginal action even. There is a passage where Murbella pulls a Neo. Instead of a bullet it’s a knife, it’s not subtle, it’s so painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain, that it becomes the shittiest example of why Fan Fiction written by teenagers is usually not even worthy of wiping your ass with. You know you’ve reached an artistic dead point when you are going to swipe The Matrix in one of your novels, and it’s not even the good part, the cerebral part of The Matrix that they’re stealing, no, they’re lifting a special effect.

It was cute when they did a parody in Scary Movie, but you’ve reached a new low when you have to copy it in a novel. Bitch, that shit ain’t right. The effect was created for the visual medium, to test what computers could do for the medium… why the hell would you want to inject it into a novel?

Back to the action, it’s just lame, you hop from one action scene to the other, every chapter has to contain two elements, repetition and action. Something dramatic and powerful and mostly physical needs to happen in every single chapter. A fleet destroyed, a fight provoked, a race initiated. And there’s nothing of any depth in between the scenes. No witty banter no deeper philosophical discussions. Nothing of that, it’s just action, repetition, some horribly predictable twist and/or turn, and then some more repetition and action and predictability.

And that’s why Hunters of Dune sucks…

Because it’s just plain crap, written for people with crap for brains, written by people with crap for brains.