DAt is juist het punt, de russen hebben zelf ooit gezegd dat ie ontsnapt is en dat het lichaam van Hitler is is nog altijd 1 van de grootste raardsels op aarde, niemand weet het, zelf heb ik er niks mee en geloof dat ie idd zelfmoord heeft gepleegd maar uit verhalen, dan al wel niet op papier zijn andere dingen gebleken, de FBI zal niet voor niets 11 jaar lang geld over de balk hebben gegooid als ze het zo zeker wisten.quote:Op donderdag 26 januari 2006 21:04 schreef Dementor het volgende:
Hitler heeft zelfmoord gepleegd en zich laten verbranden.
Je gelooft zelf toch niet dat hij heeft kunnen ontkomen uit Berlijn tijdens de belegering.
Bron: http://www.groene.nl/2002/0205/rz_bariloch.htmlquote:Volgens een verklaring van zijn adviseur Pedro Bianchi in 1979 verkocht Perón alleen al in zijn eerste termijn in de Casa Rosada in Buenos Aires tweeduizend paspoorten en achtduizend blanco persoonsbewijzen aan nazi-kringen in Europa. Het legde de dictator geen windeieren. Perón zou — met het huidige prijspeil — zes miljoen dollar hebben verdiend aan deze bemiddeling, zo vertelde zijn vertrouweling Bianchi trots.
Tussen 1945 en 1955 begonnen naar schatting in totaal tachtigduizend Duitsers, Oostenrijkers en Kroaten een nieuw leven in Argenti nië. Ongeveer vijftienduizend van hen deden dat met valse persoonsbewijzen, hetgeen een voorzichtige indicatie geeft van de nazi-populatie in het Argentinië van Perón.
Oh ja? Waar en wanneer dan?quote:Op donderdag 26 januari 2006 21:15 schreef Steffy het volgende:
[..]
DAt is juist het punt, de russen hebben zelf ooit gezegd dat ie ontsnapt is
Ja hoor, heus wel. Otto Gunsche, bijvoorbeeld, de SS-adjudant van Hitler, die na de oorlog meerdere malen getuigd heeft, dat hij persoonlijk het lichaam in brand heeft gestoken, dit gestaafd door meerdere getuigen.quote:en dat het lichaam van Hitler is is nog altijd 1 van de grootste raardsels op aarde, niemand weet het,
Je kunt iets 95% zeker weten en 100% zekerheid willen hebben.quote:zelf heb ik er niks mee en geloof dat ie idd zelfmoord heeft gepleegd maar uit verhalen, dan al wel niet op papier zijn andere dingen gebleken, de FBI zal niet voor niets 11 jaar lang geld over de balk hebben gegooid als ze het zo zeker wisten.
Welke dan.. ?!... FW 190/FW 190D-9/FW 152-Hquote:Op vrijdag 27 januari 2006 16:27 schreef DiegoArmandoMaradona het volgende:
Rudel kwam mee met Tank en zij ontwierpen voor die tijd een van de beste vliegtuigen van de wereld. Richter de man van het mislukte atoombom project dat mede door de hulp van onze Nazi-prins tot stand kwam heeft halverwege jaren 30 ook in Nazi Duitsland gewerkt maar was volgens mij geen Nazi
Mengele is niet gevangengenomen maar eind jaren zeventig verdronken in oceaan. Hij woonde toen in Brazilië. Maar goed, in dit lijstje hoort hij dus inderdaad niet thuis.quote:Op donderdag 26 januari 2006 21:18 schreef DiegoArmandoMaradona het volgende:
Bormann lukte het een dag na de ´dood´ van Hitler bijna, maar deze topic gaat niet over Hitler, daar zijn andere topics voor
Nazi´s die gevangengenomen zijn in Zuid Amerika
Adolf Eichmann - BsAs, Argentinie
Franz Stangl - Brazilie
Josef Schwammberger - Argentinie
Erich Priebke - Argentinie
Klaus Barbie - Bolivia
Nog meer namen?
Kan ik zo effe geen antwoord op geven maar ze namen in elk geval ook de technologie van Focke-Wulfquote:Op dinsdag 31 januari 2006 03:53 schreef Drugshond het volgende:
[..]
Welke dan.. ?!... FW 190/FW 190D-9/FW 152-H
De russen stonden ook niet stil (na 1943), de LA-5 en de LA-7 (laatsgenoemde zeker), zijn veel meer meer dan zomaar luchtwaardige toestellen.
Maar goed Hans Urich Rudel was een bijzonder buitenbeentje... dat wel.
Dat is alleen niet zeker als je de West-Duitse regering niet gelooft en denkt dat zij belang hebben bij dat leugenquote:Op woensdag 1 februari 2006 09:50 schreef Tranceptor het volgende:
Martin Bormann is tot op de dag van vandaag spoorloos. Hij is doodverklaard, maar niets is echt zeker over zijn lot.
In principe is dat een standpunt van een regering, er is geen reden om eraan te twijfelen, maar het opnieuw openhalen van oude wonden kan ook een reden zijn. Vrijwel alle nazi's waren inmiddels toch al overleden geweest of overleden.quote:Op woensdag 1 februari 2006 10:02 schreef DiegoArmandoMaradona het volgende:
[..]
Dat is alleen niet zeker als je de West-Duitse regering niet gelooft en denkt dat zij belang hebben bij dat leugen
Waar haal je die kennis vandaan? De joden zijn wel degelijk gevlucht voor jodenvervolgingen in Duitsland en nieuw-vergaarde gebieden. Er waren echter weinig landen die vluchtelingen toeliet, uit angst voor toename antisemitisme in eigen land (inpikken baantjes zou het wellicht kunnen stimuleren) en financiele druk ( we praten hier nog in tijden van economische malaise in de meeste landen). Dat is toch cru als je net gevlucht bent en 6 jaar later krijg je een nieuwe buurman die ook Duits praat en toevallig niet joods is.quote:Op woensdag 1 februari 2006 10:10 schreef DiegoArmandoMaradona het volgende:
Die zijn niet gevlucht, maar gedwongen.
Verder is er op 1 mei 1945 vanuit Bergen een U-boot naar BsAs gevaren en misschien was Hitler wel een van de inzittene![]()
Zijn skelet is in 1972 gevonden bij bouwwerkzaamheden. DNA-onderzoek heeft hem 100% zeker geïdentificeerd.quote:Op woensdag 1 februari 2006 09:50 schreef Tranceptor het volgende:
Martin Bormann is tot op de dag van vandaag spoorloos. Hij is doodverklaard, maar niets is echt zeker over zijn lot.
quote:Op woensdag 1 februari 2006 10:19 schreef DiegoArmandoMaradona het volgende:
Diegene die naar Argentinie zijn gevlucht deden dat in elk geval niet vrijwillig en kwamen met alleen hun kleren aan in BsAs
De informatie krijg je later
Inderdaad, in 1996. Ik heb het ook even nagezocht.quote:Op dinsdag 7 februari 2006 16:07 schreef Lord_Vetinari het volgende:
[..]
Zijn skelet is in 1972 gevonden bij bouwwerkzaamheden. DNA-onderzoek heeft hem 100% zeker geïdentificeerd.
Wat is leuk?quote:
Het zou leuk zijn als je wat links kunt geven DAM.quote:
Hierop zit men dus te wachten DAM. Die info die ons later zou verstrekken.quote:Op woensdag 1 februari 2006 10:19 schreef DiegoArmandoMaradona het volgende:
Diegene die naar Argentinie zijn gevlucht deden dat in elk geval niet vrijwillig en kwamen met alleen hun kleren aan in BsAs
De informatie krijg je later
Voor een groot deel zijn die mensen al voor de oorlog geëmigreerd.quote:Op dinsdag 7 februari 2006 20:27 schreef Bijsmaak het volgende:
In Argentinie heb je toch hele dorpen met mensen die Duitse achternamen hebben???
Hitler is niet op 30 april 1945 overleden in Berlijn maar is op 1 mei 1945 in een U-boot vanuit Bergen vertrokken waarna hij nog tot 1959 geleefd heeft in Argentiniequote:Op dinsdag 7 februari 2006 18:39 schreef _The_General_ het volgende:
Hoewel de bronnen best interessant zullen zijn spreken de meeste nederlanders geen spaans. Om dus te zeggen, als je het niet kunt lezen pech, is erg cru. Samenvatting?
Je praatte ook alleen over Joden in je posting, logisch dat ik het daar over heb.quote:Op dinsdag 7 februari 2006 18:11 schreef ErwinRommel het volgende:
Spaans is niet mijn beste kennis. Maar ik kom er wel uit, al duurt het eventjes.
Overigens denk ik dat er een misverstand is tussen ons.
Ik dacht dat je doelde op de vlucht van Nazi's naar Argentinië, welke met enkel hun kleding aan waren gearriveerd.
Jij praat dus over de Joodse vluchtelingen nu. Dan bied ik bij deze mijn excuses aan voor het ontstane misverstand.
Stalin is ook niet echt overleden in 1953, maar meegenomen door aliens in 1951. Zijn dood werd gespeeld, maar niemand let op de aftiteling.quote:Op woensdag 8 februari 2006 12:13 schreef DiegoArmandoMaradona het volgende:
[..]
Hitler is niet op 30 april 1945 overleden in Berlijn maar is op 1 mei 1945 in een U-boot vanuit Bergen vertrokken waarna hij nog tot 1959 geleefd heeft in Argentinie
quote:Op woensdag 8 februari 2006 12:13 schreef DiegoArmandoMaradona het volgende:
[..]
Hitler is niet op 30 april 1945 overleden in Berlijn maar is op 1 mei 1945 in een U-boot vanuit Bergen vertrokken waarna hij nog tot 1959 geleefd heeft in Argentinie
Bormann is het bijna gelukt een paar dagen laterquote:Op woensdag 8 februari 2006 12:37 schreef Lord_Vetinari het volgende:
[..]
Knap. Hoe kwam hij in Bergen, vraag ik me dan af. Zeker als je weet, dat hij op 29 april nog midden in Berlijn zat, waar nog geen muis in of uit kon.
Nee, Bormann is het volgens de overlevering bijna gelukt, in werkelijkheid is hij "gewoon" in Berlijn omgekomen.quote:Op woensdag 8 februari 2006 12:58 schreef DiegoArmandoMaradona het volgende:
[..]
Bormann is het bijna gelukt een paar dagen later
quote:De vlucht van de nazi's naar Zuid-Amerika.
Door Hernan Etchaleco.
Na de Tweede Wereldoorlog bereikten ten minste vijf Duitse onderzeeërs Argentinië met niet minder dan vijftig hoge Duitse nazi's aan boord. Tijdens de reis brachten ze een Amerikaans oorlogsschip en de Braziliaanse kruiser Bahia tot zinken; er vielen meer dan vierhonderd doden, waaronder Amerikaanse burgers. Zowel de Verenigde Staten als de Britse overheid hebben deze operatie systematisch geheim gehouden. Waarom? Hebben zij Hitler naar Patagonië gebracht?
Twee Argentijnse onderzoekers, Carlos de Napoli en Juan Salinas, hebben met hun goed onderbouwde onderzoek een bijdrage geleverd aan de onthulling van het laatste geheim van de Tweede Wereldoorlog. De operatie heette Ubersee Süd (naar het Zuiden over zee) en volgens hun onderzoek hielpen de Amerikaanse en de Engelse regeringen zo nazi-officieren ontsnappen uit Russische handen.
'De Tweede Wereldoorlog eindigde op 7 mei 1945 en de eerste onderzeeërs arriveerden in Argentinië op 10 juli van dat jaar. De tweede onderzeeër bereikte op 17 augustus Argentinië', zegt De Napoli. De Argentijnse onderzoeker refereert aan de bekende landing van de Duitse onderzeeërs U-530 en U-977 die zich destijds aan de Argentijnse marine overgaven. De bevelvoerders Otto Wermuth en Heinz Schäffer werden gearresteerd en verschillende keren ondervraagd in Buenos Aires, Washington en London. Wat echter systematisch geheim gehouden is door de Amerikaanse en Britse overheid, is het feit dat zij het Amerikaanse gevechtsschip de USS Eagle 56 voor de Amerikaanse kust en de Braziliaanse kruiser Bahia temidden van drie andere schepen tot zinken brachten. De vraag is nu waarom de Britten en Amerikanen de moord op meer dan vierhonderd mensen geheim hielden, terwijl de oorlog twee maanden eerder al afgelopen was?
'Het was een samenzwering tegen de Sovjet-Unie. Operatie Sunrise was ontworpen om de oprukkende troepen van Stalin in Europa tegen te houden. Daarom wilden de Engelsen Duitse officieren en soldaten achter de hand houden om de oorlog tegen Rusland voort te zetten en het communisme te vernietigen. Operatie Ubersee Süd is onderdeel van deze grotere operatie', legt Juan Salinas, voormalig onderzoeker van de bomaanslag op een joodse club in Buenos Aires in 1995, uit.
Top Secret
Helaas is het niet mogelijk deze informatie bij officiële bronnen te controleren aangezien documenten die betrekking hebben op operatie Sunrise door zowel de Britse als de Amerikaanse overheid zijn geclassificeerd als 'Top Secret'. Dit betekent dat ze gedurende 75 jaar niet voor onderzoek beschikbaar zijn. Saillant detail: alleen deze documenten over de Tweede Wereldoorlog blijven gesloten.
Churchill was het meesterbrein achter de ontsnapping van de nazi-officieren. De Argentijnse marine had - op aangeven van Britse instructies - een vrije zone gecreëerd om de Duitsers de kans te geven te ontschepen zonder gestoord te worden', vertelt Salinas aan de Russische nieuwswebsite pravda.ru. Er bestaat zelfs een bevel, uitgevaardigd door de Argentijnse autoriteiten, om aanvallen op Duitse onderzeeërs in de nabijheid van de Argentijnse kust te stoppen. De oplettende lezer kan zich afvragen waarom anderen de Duitse onderzeeërs aanvielen, als de Engelse regering achter de operatie zat. De Napoli antwoordt: 'De opvolgers van Churchill (de conservatieven verloren de verkiezingen die direct na de Tweede Wereldoorlog plaatsvonden en de Labourpartij kwam aan de macht) wilden niet dat de operatie doorging.'
De operatie ging echter door en niet minder dan vijftig hoge officieren van het Derde Rijk vonden een schuilplaats in de desolate streek in de zuidelijke regio's van Argentinië en Chili. Het is belangrijk om op te merken dat in Patagonië de grootste gemeenschap Duitsers van Latijns Amerika woont en veel nazi's en Ustasha-criminelen daar na de oorlog geleefd hebben, o.a. Mengele, Eichmann, Martin Bornmann, Ante Pavelic en Erich Priebke.
Salinas en De Napoli konden de tocht van de Duitse onderzeeër doen herleven op basis van documenten die werden geleverd door de Argentijnse, Braziliaanse en Amerikaanse marines, de Noorse en Deense ambassades in Buenos Aires en het Nationaal Archief (NARA) van de Verenigde Staten. Ook werden interessante gegevens geleverd door de memoires van Hans Schaeffer, bevelvoerder van de U-977.
Tragedie
Een vloot van bijna twintig onderzeeërs vertrok uit de Noorse havenstad Bergen, tussen 1 mei en de capitulatie van het Derde Rijk zes dagen later. Ze voegden zich samen in Cape Verde, een Atlantische archipel dichtbij Afrika, met een andere groep onderzeeërs die van de Amerikaanse kusten kwamen (o.a. de U-530). Daar hoorden zij dat de Flensburg-regering met aan het hoofd groot-admiraal Dünitz, die aan de macht kwam na het vertrek van Hitler en die door de geallieerden tot 23 mei 1945 in leven werd gehouden, was gevallen.
De Duitse commandanten, die een nieuwe wending in de internationale politiek verwachtten door het uitbreken van een conflict tussen de Sovjet-Unie en de Amerikaans-Engelse coalitie, werden zich ervan bewust dat ze nu op eigen kracht verder moesten. Sommige officieren besloten hun onderzeeërs te laten zinken en zich over te geven aan de vijand of terug te keren naar Europa. Ten minste zes overblijvers, waaronder de U-530 en de U-977, zetten koers naar Argentinië met aan boord belangrijke passagiers en een hoeveelheid goud.
'Toen kwam de tragedie', vertelt Salinas. 'Vermomd als vissersschepen varen de onderzeeërs op zee. Kort na het passeren van de evenaar ontmoeten ze de begeleiders van de Amerikaanse vliegtuigen die op weg zijn naar Japan, op de route Natal-Dakar.'
De Braziliaanse kruiser Bahia nam aan deze operatie deel, toen zij volgens de onderzoekers werd beschoten door twee akoestische torpedo's die afgevuurd werden door de U-977. In deze grootste ramp van de Braziliaanse marine kwamen 366 bemanningsleden om het leven.
Aan boord van de Bahia werkten vier Amerikaanse radiobedieners. Zij kwamen in de beschieting om het leven, maar werden door de Amerikaanse regering als vermist opgegeven. Blijkbaar is dit de belangrijkste reden waarom de Duitse regering niet meewerkte aan het onderzoek van Salinas en De Napoli. De Brazilianen zeiden dat het zinken van de Bahia een ongeluk was, exact dezelfde reden als de Amerikaanse marine tot vorig jaar gaf voor het beschieten van de USS Eagle 56. De U-977, de U-530 en de andere onderzeeërs voeren door naar Argentinië en de eerste twee gaven zich daar over aan de plaatselijke autoriteiten.
Was Hitler een van de passagiers van deze duikboten? De Napoli: 'Wij denken dat Hitler, Eva Braun, Grettel Braun en Martin Bornmann met deze operatie wisten te ontsnappen. Wij kunnen echter niet bevestigen of Hitler in Argentinië is aangekomen of niet.'
Martin Bornmann stierf in Paraguay. Misschien worden de verdenking van Stalin nu bewaarheid: 'Hitler vluchtte naar Spanje of naar Argentinië', zei hij tegen de toenmalige Amerikaanse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken, James Byrne. Het onderzoek gaat door. (Bron: pravda.ru)
Uit TARGETS, maart 2003. (redactie@targets.org)
quote:Hitler himself did not kill in Berlin, died in argentina
Hello!, my name is Sara Levi, I am utilizing this middle next to some friends journalists freelance everywhere to diffuse an extremely important investigation of a colleague. In synthesis the thesis of Patrick Burnside is
that Hitler survived to the Second World War, was evaded of Berlin in an airplane jet and from Norway embarked with its followers in a convoy of OR-Boote travelling to the patagonian coast of argentina, where, in the skirt
of the Andes, lived tranquil by almost 15 years. This was possible thanks to a plan developed by the leader of the German Intelligence, the Admiral Canaris, among the 1942 and the 1943 and the role of one of its agents
that in argentina turned out to be indispensable Eva María Duarte. It avoids, utilizing to Sunday Perón, managed to execute successful splits of the plan of Canaris, who had also interesting connections in Chile and in
Uruguay. There is you test documentary that various services of American Intelligence knew, already since 1944, as much as had been projected and that, since 1945, they left tranquil to Hitler in case to need it before
the perspective of a Third World War considering an eventual Soviet invasion through Germany Oriental. The documents that vouch for the investigation were declassified does little time by the FBI and despite this fact the
theme and the relative investigation systematically is ignored for the press. This incorruptible middle was chosen because only is our desire that be of total public domain the token and documentary elements of what
occurred. Therefore if it interests the theme or knows someone that can interest can enter freely al place http: //www.hitlerescape.com where there is a synthesis of the born investigation as complement to the same one,
where 600 photos can be visualized and very compromising documents for the couple Perón and the Services of American Intelligence OSS-FBI-CIA. It has to be known the complex truth and not the dogma simplón that know since
more than half century, is the minimum that himself due to the scores of millions of dead persons of the Second World War unchained by Hitler.
quote:Could be taken refuge Hitler in Argentina? Adolf Hitler lived in the Patagonia after fleeing in 1945 of Germany, al except that maintains the Argentine journalist Abel Basti in its book Bariloche tourist Nazi-guide, that the next week in its country will leave for sale.
Hitler and its lover Eva Braun «itself did not they kill, they fled to the coasts Argentinas in a submarine and many years lived» in the proximity of San Carlos of Bariloche, tourist city and center of esquí to some 1.350 kilometers al southwestern of Buenos Aires, indicated the journalist.
Basti reproduces documents, testimonies, photographs and flat to guide al reader (or tourist) to the places that would have served of refuge to Hitler, Martin Borman, Joseph Mengele and Adolf Eichmann.
Numerous noticeable members of the German Nazi party managed to escape from Berlin and among others places, they took refuge in Argentina. The author of the book recalls the «wave of submarines» German that they arrived at the southern coasts of the little country after concluded the Second World War.
«There are many and fehacientes you test of the flight of Nazis toward argentina in coincidence with the arrival of German submarines to the Patagonia», indicated, after recalling the «vital support» that the then Argentine government presided by Perón lent «to take refuge in the country to the followers of the Führer».
Basti, that resides in Bariloche, initiated a decade ago its investigation on the refugee Nazis in that picturesque city and assures to count on testimonies of passengers of the German submarines that arrived at the Patagonia, that will be the base of a second book.
It not the question pleases of if with their work challenges the official history on the suicide of Hitler and of Eva Braun in their bunker of Berlin, the author assures in controversial tone that «never they were found, al the same as of many other Nazis presumedly killed».
«The official only history is the report al Kremlin of the general one Jukov (commander of the Soviet Army that occupied Berlin) that Hitler and various Nazi leaders escaped, likely to Spain or to Argentina, and thus communicates it Stalin al U.S. Government», assured Basti.
The version of the Argentine journalist contradicts the story of Otto Guensche, main lieutenant of them feared SS and member of the circle close to Hitler during the war that assured to have helped to burn the body of the Hitler.
In an interview granted to the British chain BBC porco before his death, the past October 2 of 2003, the former Nazi official affirmed that it was found next to Hitler and Eva Braun in the búnker in which the couple killed himself little after the own one Führer him to ask personally that he burned his body. Guensche counted in that interview that threw on the cadaver the cloths that initiated the fire after the leader of personal Martin Boorman failed in a first intent to burn them.
The book "Bariloche tourist Nazi-guide", that will be complemented with a web in Internet of next apparition (http://www.barilochenazi.com.ar), begins with the history of another official of the SS, Erich Priebke, extradited from Argentina to Italy in 1995 by its responsibility in the fusilamiento of 345 Italian hostages by the German troops in 1944, as retaliation by an attack of the partisanos antifascist.
Using its true name, Priebke arrived with its family to Bariloche in 1948 where presided that of Cultural Association German-Argentina" and lived like a citizen more until was discovered by the BBC of London in 1994. The reaction of a part of the company barilochense that was declared in favor of the "good neighboring" of the German colony, caused that Bariloche were considered like a town “pro-nazi” in the remainder of Argentina and good splits of the world.
This case was the tip of the iceberg of the investigation of Basti to describe a complex plot of businesses and institutions created in Argentina "al only effect of the flight of the Nazis and to whiten money of the rapiñas of war".
The journalist also qualifies in its book the official history on the deaths of Martin Borman, the second in the Nazi hierarchy after Hitler, and of the medical one Joseph Mengele, since reproduces testimonies and photographs that give account of the step by Bariloche of those two criminals of war.
The author of the book mentions to Ridolf Fraud, son of the German millionaire Ludwing Fraud, as key piece for the entrance in Argentina of noticeable Nazis, among them Eichmann, captured in 1960 to the outskirts of Buenos Aires by an Israeli command and executed two years later in Israel.
On the supposed presence of Hitler and Eva Braun, in the book publishes a photograph of the farm "Inalco", located in Village the Narrowness, to edges of the lake Nahuel Huapi, 80 kilometers al north of Bariloche, the «refuge elected by the Argentine Nazis to hide them», a residence that belonged to an Argentine businessman close person to Juan Sunday Perón.
Basti assures that Hitler also lived during its step by Argentina in the estate San Ramón, 10 kilometers al this of Bariloche, a property at that time of the German principality of Schaumburg-Lippe
quote:According to a Paraguayan historian and an Argentine writer, Hitler itself did not kill in Germany: escaped to Argentina with Eva Braun.
"I coincide fully with Abel Basti, who to starts of month said that Hitler escaped and was situated in Argentina, specifically in the Patagonia", declared the Paraguayan one Mariano Flat al daily asunceño ABC.
Flat it anticipates to launch in February 'Hitler. Nazi in Paraguay', a work of investigation that shows that the protection to the Nazis was strong "so much in Argentina as in Paraguay".
The historian and lawyer considers that the aid to the "pursued politicians it be which was its ideology" it was large by "the history of pursuits" that has characterized its countrymen.
Among the rulers that gave refuge to the Nazis quotes al Paraguayan dictator Alfredo Stroessner (son of a German), Perón (Argentina), Geisel (Brazil) and Ibáñez of the Field (Chile).
The Argentine journalist Abel Basti has presented a curious tourist guide with the places where they lived and they worked former refugee Nazi hierarches in the Argentine south after the Second World War.
Also it details where did they live, presumedly, Hitler and Eva Braun, according to their controversial theory that maintains that themselves did not they kill in 1945 in Berlin, but they escaped and they lived in Bariloche.
Naast een hoer ook nog corruptquote:Friday June 27, 1997
Cry for us, Argentina -- Did Eva Peron hide Nazi loot?
SERGIO KIERNAN
Jewish Telegraphic Agency
BUENOS AIRES -- The Swiss government has decided to investigate whether Argentina deposited Nazi loot in Swiss banks after World War II.
Eva Peron, the wife of Argentine leader Juan Peron is suspected of having deposited in Geneva-based banks part of the Nazi loot she received in exchange for giving safe haven to alleged war criminals in Argentina.
The Swiss probe was announced Monday at the opening of a conference in Geneva on Nazi gold. The conference was organized by the Simon Wiesenthal Center.
In 1947, then-First Lady Eva Peron toured Europe in a trip designed to boost the image of her husband's regime abroad. She included a brief visit to Switzerland.
Eva Peron may have opened at least one secret bank account to deposit funds she received from Nazis in exchange for Argentine passports and visas, according to historians.
After her death in 1952, Juan Peron spent years trying to get the funds he believed his wife deposited in Geneva.
According to Felix Luna, a well-known historian specializing in Peronism, Juan Peron sent over a period of 20 years several of his top aides to Switzerland, including his second wife, Isabel Peron.
But Peron never found his wife's stash, according to one of the envoys, businessman Jorge Antonio.
"All we could get was a handful of gold coins deposited at a safe box belonging to Evita's brother, Juan Duarte," Antonio wrote in an unpublished memoir.
"De verdenkingen van Stalin bevestigd".quote:
quote:The Peróns:
Argentina’s Populist Power Couple
Juan Perón and his wife Evita have been lionized by some, while they have been accused of many evil things by others. Were the Peróns really so bad? Or have they merely been smeared because the populist Perón was not unfriendly to the Third Reich?
By Robert K. Logan
Understandably, the mainstream media have chosen to ignore the first results of the much-ballyhooed “CEANA” investigations into Argentina’s alleged Nazi past. CEANA is the Argentine “Commission of Inquiry into the Activities of Nazism in Argentina” (Comisión Para el Esclarecimiento de las Actividades del Nazismo en la Argentina).
After more than three years of investigations, CEANA effectively exonerates the Argentine government of incessant malicious charges, accusations and insinuations—generated by the media—of having deliberately harbored countless Nazi war criminals, and ill-gotten art treasures and gold, confiscated from Jewish victims of World War II. Aside from the unfounded media re ports, sensational books of fiction like Frederick Forsyth’s The Odessa File and Jorge Camarasa’s Odessa al Sur suggested that a vast network had been established, with the complicity of the Vatican and Juan Perón’s administration, to funnel former SS men and Nazi gold into Argentina. A veritable hysteria, fed by the media, over the alleged presence of Nazis in Argentina has prevailed since World War II. These falsehoods are now being ex posed.
On November 11, 1999, CEANA, an official board of inquiry, issued preliminary findings after a comprehensive and exhaustive investigation. Established by Argentine Foreign Minister Guido Di Tella in 1997 to determine the truth about the extent of Nazi infiltration and stolen gold hoards allegedly brought to Argentina by German submarines during the closing days of the war, CEANA was staffed by a team of international scholars, chosen for a belief in their integrity, who, to further ensure their findings would be accepted by the world, were monitored by Jewish academic and media shepherds. The CEANA commission was granted full access to the state archives of the nations of Argentina, the United States, Great Britain, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, France, Belgium and Portugal.
The researchers, with the concurrence of the Jewish members, found that in fact very few Nazis and Nazi collaborators had entered Argentina. For example, respected historian Carlota Jakisch estimated that some 65 alleged war criminals, including the much-publicized Adolf Eichmann and Josef Mengele, had succeeded in entering Argentina and thereby escaping Allied “justice,” i.e., the hangman. German historian Holger Meding was able to find that only 45 Nazi war criminals had escaped the victors’ justice by slipping into Argentina. The researchers also verified that 36 French and Belgian and 52 Croatian collaborators had also managed to escape justice in Argentina. Thus, a grand total of fewer than 200 Nazis and Nazi collaborators, of whom only a few could be considered dangerous war criminals, was determined to have entered Argentina.
Admittedly, Austrian Bishop Alois Hudal and other priests were found to have aided several wanted individuals in their time of need, just as they helped Jews earlier, when they were threatened. Some gold and valuables belonging to dubious individuals may have been transferred from Europe to Argentina, the land of silver, but certainly not large quantities. Concerning gold transfers, CEANA reports unequivocally that “Nazi gold never entered the country physically . . . and that any complicity of Argentina Central Bank in transactions related to Nazi gold was, in any case, very marginal.” Further, no official records involving the Perón administration on the matter of gold transfers or looted art have been revealed.
Quite naturally, many Germans, who saw no future in Germany in 1945, chose to emigrate to Argentina. Moreover, Argentina, as a Catholic country, has a long tradition, shared with other Latin countries, of permitting its churches to grant sanctuary to individuals in need and of granting defeated military personnel the privilege of seeking safety in exile.
The continued animosity of the Anglo-American Establishment directed against the persons of Juan Domingo Perón and his wife, Eva Duarte de Perón (known as “Evita”), which borders on the pathological, deserves special attention. This enduring animus would be incomprehensible without understanding the history of British imperialism in Argentina and the sociopolitical revolutions of the first half of the 20th century.
The underlying cause of the continuing UK/U.S. hostility toward Argentina stems from the Peróns’ success in freeing the country, albeit temporarily, from its traditional economic dependence on foreign markets and capital, initially British but later American. British and U.S. companies eventually held a virtual monopoly over the Argentine meat-packing, railroad, electric power, pharmaceutical and other industries. In 1933, the controversial Roca-Runciman Treaty seemed to seal the special Argentine-British relationship. It would also have kept Argentina in a quasi-colonial status as agricultural supplier to Britain.
Several unforeseen events upset this special relationship. First, the onset of World War II cut Argentina off from its traditional markets and investment sources and forced the country to become more self-sufficient by developing its own industrial and financial base. With modernization and industrialization, the labor unions grew ever more powerful. The long-reigning Argentine oligarchy, with which the British had always dealt, began to lose its privileged position. The very word “autarky” (i.e., national self-sufficiency) is, of course, anathema to international moneylenders.
In 1943 a military coup overthrew the corrupt Castillo government. A young, charismatic colonel, Juan Perón, assumed control of the Ministry of Labor and Welfare of the economically foundering nation. With the indispensable assistance of a fellow colonel, Domingo Alfredo Mercante, who assumed control of the vital Buenos Aires province, Perón’s organizational and leadership qualities won him the support of the working class that be came his main political base.
The bulk of the population in Argentina is of Italian and Spanish extraction. It was quite natural in the Great Depression of the 1930s, when American and British capitalism was on the rocks, which the military and the common people in Argentina turned to Mussolini’s Fascist Italy and National Socialist Germany as models. Moreover, like Italy, Argentina was a Catholic country with mores and a spirit quite different from those of “Perfidious Albion.”
As Perón’s power increased (he became vice president and minister of war in 1940), the oligarchs and others whose status was now being threatened staged a coup in early October 1945 that ousted Perón from the government. However, the insurgents miscalculated badly, and within a few days Perón’s followers were able to regroup and fight back. Under the leadership of the labor leaders in Buenos Aires and Perón’s loyal friend, Col. Mercante, whom Evita was later to call “the heart of Perón,” massive street demonstrations were staged.
With World War II concluded and Britain an economic basket case, Perón pushed ahead with his domestic industrialization program, including nationalizing foreign-owned businesses. Joining and reinforcing Perón in this major restructuring of the Argentine economy was Evita, whom he married. A woman fiercely dedicated to her husband and his program, Evita proved a tremendous asset to Perón, who, by 1946, had become president of Argentina. Contrary to American public opinion, Juan Perón’s power did not derive from Evita, but Evita’s from Juan’s.
Perón himself was referred to as the leader and standard bearer of the descamisados (“the shirtless ones,” i.e., the workers). Perón’s political doctrine was justicialismo (“social justice”) and “the Third Position,” which was opposed to the oligarchs, the communists and the imperialists. Evita Perón, who had a successful career in radio, movies and theater before her marriage to Perón, soon won the affection of the Argentine people. Evita was an extremely effective public speaker, arguing emotionally and dramatically on behalf of Perón’s policies.
Evita almost single-handedly took over all welfare in Argentina, opening hospitals, schools, housing projects, orphanages, libraries, homes for the elderly, shelters for the indigent and social security programs—all under the auspices of her Social Aid Foundation. In doing so, she in effect re placed charity with a government aid program. Equally important and long lasting were her support of women’s rights and her championship of the law that gave Argentine women the right to vote.
To have accomplished so much in Argentinian society at tests to Evita’s unusual appeal and tact. In her speeches she al ways presented herself modestly as Perón’s “bridge to the people,” never ceasing to defer to and praise her husband, El Presidente. For his part Perón could only be most thankful for his wife’s loyalty and support. Evita’s activities further incurred the wrath of the oligarchs, especially the wealthy Ladies of Beneficence, who had traditionally managed charitable operations in Argentina.
Juan and Evita were a perfect team: he, the strong, macho military leader fighting against communism and imperialism for an independent Argentina; she, childless, frail in appearance, in failing health, the wife and main supporter of her revered husband. Upon her death on July 26, 1952, the government announced: “It is our sad duty to inform the people of the republic that Eva, the spiritual leader of the nation, died at 8:25 p.m.”
Perón’s fortunes began to decline following his wife’s death. Europe recovered from World War II, and its industries were again working overtime—supplying South American countries. The United States was now not only helping the British reestablish their pre-Perón privileges but also intervening in Argentine affairs. (The total diplomatic and logistical support the U.S. government gave Britain during the Falkland Islands War in 1982 demonstrated clearly the commonality of U.S-UK policy vis-a-vis Argentina, whose claims to the islands are at least as valid as Britain’s.) Perón’s hopes to establish home industries eventually foundered. Economic distress was soon followed by political action against Perónism.
In 1955 Perón was ousted in a military coup. The new regime, backed by the oligarchy and other enemies of the Peróns, undertook to dismantle as many of Evita’s innovations and institutions (shelters, schools, hospitals) as it could, especially those bearing her name. Even her body was disinterred and transported out of the country. Perón himself went into exile in Spain.
To discredit Perónism, a campaign of calumny and slander concerning the private lives and character of both Juan and Evita was started, and it continues to this day. He was accused of living with teenage girls and of being a Nazi sympathizer. Evita was maliciously denounced as a common prostitute who stole money from the Eva Duarte Foundation. But the campaign of hate and vilification against the Peróns failed completely in Argentina and most of the Latin world, though the allegations continue to titillate British and American scandalmongers.
Juan Perón was returned to power in 1974, and Evita’s body was finally laid to rest in her native land. The Perónist Party continues to exist, but, without an effective leader, it has become very fragmented. While Evita never quite became “Santa Evita,” she is nonetheless fondly remembered by many in present-day Argentina.
After the war many immigrants from Europe arrived in Argentina seeking to start new lives, as they did in the United States. For historical, ethnic and religious reasons the Argentine government chose not to seek out, pursue, arrest or indict “suspect” Germans who arrived as immigrants after World War II. Was this so terrible? For their own reasons, the United States, Britain and France have themselves elected not to seek out, pursue, arrest, indict or deport Russians, Ukrainians or Jews who were involved in communist crimes, not even those associated with the infamous Gulag system, even though communist crimes lasted over a much longer period, involved millions more victims and were of much more recent origin.
During the war the United States was an active belligerent, allied with the Soviet Union, while Argentina, remained neutral as long as possible with obvious sympathies for the Italian and German people. Not until March 27, 1944, under great pressure from the United States, did Argentina finally declare war against Germany. None other than Juan Domingo Perón, then minister of war, signed the declaration of war. Moreover, most Argentine exports of raw materials during World War II went to the United States and Britain, not to Germany and Italy.
The international CEANA commission has proved extremely useful in demystifying and dispelling many misconceptions about the extent of Nazi influence in Argentina. The selection of honest, independent and unbiased researchers, with the participation of open-minded Jews, combined with the cooperation of involved states, seems the perfect vehicle for resolving lingering doubts about other controversial events of World War II. It is to be hoped that a similar international commission is established to define—once and for all—the exact parameters of Jewish losses in the holocaust.
Postscript
Half a century after Eva and Juan Perón established the populist Perónist movement, Perónistas, admittedly of varying convictions and authenticity, continue to control the Argentine Congress and most of Argentina’s provinces. But in his day and awash himself in party power struggles, Juan Perón liked to compare the various warring Perónist factions to cats having sex. “It may seem like they are fighting,” Perón would say, “but they are really just reproducing. In the end, Perónism survives and expands.”1
FOOTNOTE:
1Faiola, Anthony, “Squabbling Perónists Can’t Get It Together,” The International Herald Tribune, Sept. 6, 2002, 2.
quote:They reveal step of Hitler by Argentina
EFE
Buenos Aires, Argentina (5 January 2004). Adolf Hitler lived in the Patagonia after fleeing in 1945 of Germany, assures the Argentine journalist Abel Basti in a book where, with the style of a tourist guide, reveals the places al foot of the mountain Range of the Andes that served of refuge to various former Nazi hierarches.
Hitler and his sentimental couple Eva Braun himself did not kill, they fled to the coasts Argentinas in a submarine and many years lived near San Carlos of Bariloche, tourist city and center of esquí to thousand 350 kilometers al southwestern of Buenos Aires, indicates in interview the author of the text.
In its book "Bariloche Tourist Nazi-Guide", that the next week in the south american country will leave for sale, Basti reproduces documents, testimonies, photos and flat to guide al reader or tourist to the places that served of refuge to Hitler, Martin Borman, Joseph Mengele and Adolf Eichmann.
It does not it please the question if with their work challenges the official history on the suicide of Hitler and of Eva Braun when the allied troops arrived at Berlin, since maintained that the corpses of the Führer and of their lover never they were found, al the same as of many other Nazis presumedly killed.
"The official only history is the report al Kremlin of the General one Jukov (commander of the Soviet Army that occupied Berlin) that Hitler and various Nazi leaders escaped, likely to Spain or to Argentina, and thus communicates it (José) Stalin al U.S. government", assured in controversial tone.
In its book publishes a photograph of the farm "Inalco", that in native tongue signifies "near the water", located in Village the Narrowness, to edges of the lake Nahuel Huapi, 80 kilometers al north of Bariloche.
"That was the refuge elected by the Argentine Nazis to hide to Hitler and to Eva Braun".
The residence, that still is conserved in the middle of a leafy forest and to which only can arrive for launch or seaplane, belonged al Argentine businessman Jorge Antonio, one of the men of greater confidence of the three times President of this country, Juan Sunday Perón.
Basti mentions to Rodolfo Fraud, son of the German millionaire Ludwing Fraud, as key piece since its position of secretary of Perón, for the transfer to Argentina of Nazis, among them, Eichmann, captured in 1960 near Buenos Aires by an Israeli command and executed two years later in Israel.
The author of the book, has worked in several investigations on the Nazis for the European television, assures that Hitler also lived during its step by Argentina in the Estate San Ramón, 10 kilometers al this of Bariloche, a property at that time of the German principality of Schaumburg-Lippe.
The long stretch among the possibility that Hitler and their deputies have managed to escape from Berlin, and refugee in the Patagonia, for Basti shortens with the "wave of submarines" German that they arrived at the little, Argentine southern coasts after concluded the Second World War.
"There are many and fehacientes you test of the flight of Nazis toward argentina in coincidence with the arrival of German submarines to the Patagonia", indicated, after recalling the support that the then Argentine Government presided by Perón lent to take refuge in the country to the followers of the Führer.
Basti, who resides in Bariloche and initiated a decade ago its investigation on the radicación of Nazis in that picturesque city, assures to count on testimonies of passengers of the German submarines that arrived at the Patagonia, that will be the base of a second book "in preparation".
The book "Bariloche Tourist Nazi-Guide", that will be complemented with the place in internet www.barilochenazi.com.ar, begins with the history of the former captain of them feared SS, Erich Priebke, extradited from Argentina to Italy in the decade weighed by its responsibility in the fusilamiento of some 300 persons.
Priebke, who presided in Bariloche the Cultural Association German-Argentina, was the tip of the iceberg of the investigation of Basti to describe a complex plot of businesses and institutions created in the country "al only effect of the flight of the Nazis and to whiten money of the rapiñas of war".
The journalist also qualifies in its book the official history on the deaths of Martin Borman, the second in the Nazi hierarchy after Hitler, and of the medical one Joseph Mengele, since reproduces testimonies and photographs that give account of the step by Bariloche of those two criminals of war.
quote:Dear Editor:
I apologize to all who have been offended, hurt or outraged by my comments as reported in The Aspen Times on March 18 (Bariloche article) and repeated in two subsequent stories. I am sensitive to the issues raised by this article, and I understand the seriousness of this matter. If my comments conveyed otherwise, for that I am deeply sorry.
I have talked with many Aspenites, Jewish and non-Jewish; have met with Aspen Sister Cities; have requested a letter of explanation from Bariloche's mayor; and am working with the Aspen Institute to provide a setting for a dialogue for members of the Aspen community to discuss this issue, and any other issues that might arise, in order for all of us to develop deeper understanding and sensitivity to each other's beliefs, feelings, differences and points of view.
This issue is far too serious to be resolved by newspaper articles or letters to the editor. In fairness to Aspen citizens, Bariloche citizens and to Jews everywhere, we need to determine the facts in this matter, and make our decisions accordingly. I assure you, the city of Aspen will thoughtfully and thoroughly address this matter.
Furthermore, the city of Aspen will not tolerate any form of threat or discrimination, whether subtle or blatant toward any person of any belief, ethnic or national background that may arise from this matter or at any time.
Helen Kalin Klanderud
Mayor
City of Aspen
A partir de la nota de Eben Harrell los lectores en el Aspen times comenzaron una larga pólémica que reproducimos a continuación
www.aspentimes.com
Aspen sister city former Nazi haven
By Eben Harrell
Aspen Times Staff Writer
March 18, 2004
Aspen’s newest sister city, Bariloche, Argentina, was for years a stronghold for high-ranking German Nazis, and the town’s population still refuses to condemn them for their actions, according to a report in The Daily Telegraph in Britain.
The report has caused concern among Aspen’s Jewish leaders and frustration among city officials.
“The only thing I find bothersome about this is that you would give this credibility by writing a story,” Griff Smith, the Bariloche city coordinator for Aspen’s sister cities, told The Aspen Times.
A sister city official from Bariloche confirmed that high-ranking Nazis were prominent members of the community, but believes this should not tarnish the town’s image.
According to The Daily Telegraph, a respected conservative paper in London, Bariloche provided refuge to many high-ranking Nazis for years after World War II. Joseph Schwammberger, commander of the Polish ghetto Przemysl, Erich Priebke, a former SS officer now serving a life term in Italy for the massacre of 335 Italians, and possibly even Joseph Mengele, the Auschwitz death camp doctor known as the “Angel of Death,” resided in or near the town.
The Telegraph’s Feb. 14 article was written after the publication of a controversial guidebook of former Nazi homes in Bariloche by a local author.
When Priebke was arrested 10 years ago, he was the respected president of a local German school and a beloved delicatessen owner, the Telegraph reports. His son, George Priebke, who still lives in Baroliche, said that Nazis were always warmly accepted in the town.
“The culture here is different. In Italy people call us assassins and scream at us. Here they greet us and shake our hands,” Priebke told the Telegraph.
Nicolas Spagat, a member of Bariloche’s sister cities committee, told The Aspen Times that Nazis were indeed embedded in the community. He remembers Priebke and says he attended school with the children of Frederich Lantschner, the former Nazi governor of the Tyrol.
A Jew who was born in Argentina in 1945 after his parents fled Germany, Spagat believes co-habitation between Jews and Nazis in Bariloche was necessary for the survival of the community.
“There were Nazis here,” Spagat said. “And there were Jews here. The fact that one was or was not a Nazi or a Jew had nothing to do with what you did in [Bariloche], that’s the way we looked at it.
“It was an amazing time. Because Argentina was one of the few countries to accept Germans after the war, there were German Jews and German Nazis all working to build a community here. There were never any anti-Semitic problems or anti-Nazi problems. It was a small town. What were you going to do, shoot the Nazis?”
Bariloche officially became Aspen’s fifth sister city last April after a two-year “courtship” period, in which city officials visited and vetted the town. The relationship represents an informal diplomatic tie. In the last year, Aspen participated in eight exchange programs, sending and accepting doctors, students and city officials to and from the Andean village.
Leaders of Aspen’s Jewish community expressed concern about Bariloche’s past. Rabbi Mendel Mintz, the president of Chabad, a local Jewish group, said he hopes Aspen’s officials will pursue dialogue about Bariloche’s past with their Argentinean counterparts.
David Elcott, a representative for the moderate American Jewish Committee and frequent visitor to Aspen, said openness on the part of Bariloche officials is essential. He said unless Bariloche officials acknowledge that harboring high-ranking Nazis was morally indefensible, Aspen should break ties with the town.
“If a community is refusing to acknowledge that it allowed Nazis to allude responsibility, then it’s totally inappropriate for any American city to maintain a relationship with it,” Elcott said.
Aspen officials were defensive when questioned, arguing that the report in the Telegraph doesn’t warrant the town’s attention. “I think this is a non-story,” Aspen Mayor Helen Klanderud said.
Don Sheeley, president of Aspen’s Sister Cities program, defended Aspen’s relationship with Bariloche, arguing that every country has a checkered past.
“We have a sister city in Japan — Shimukappu. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Does that mean we shouldn’t send our kids there?” Sheeley said.
Sister City coordinator Griff Smith, who has visited Bariloche numerous times, said that he has not received any indication of “lingering Nazi sympathies or anti-Semitism” in the town.
Klanderud also said that she could not identify “a drop of anti-Semitism” in Bariloche and that Aspen should be forward-looking in its relationship with its sister city.
“The whole purpose of the sister city program is to foster relationships with the international community, to plan for a better future. To resurrect something that’s nearly 60 years old is irresponsible,” she said.
Seamus Mirodan, the reporter who wrote the story for the Telegraph, said that although no high-ranking Nazis are still alive in Bariloche, its residents still have warm feelings for the Nazis who lived in town.
“I spent a week in Bariloche and I can say that within the culture there, [the Nazis] are still seen as having been pillars of the community. [The town’s residents] don’t understand why they were extradited,” Mirodan said.
[Eben Harrell’s e-mail address is eharrell@aspentimes.com]
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Bariloche on the front burner
Eben Harrell
March 26, 2004
Officials from the city and the sister cities program have responded to news that Bariloche, Aspen's newest sister city, was a Nazi haven by promising to meet with local Jewish residents. They will also request a formal letter of explanation from Bariloche's mayor.
Aspen Jewish community leaders have expressed concern about Aspen's ties with the Argentinean town and anger over the mayor's reaction to the news.
A high-ranking Bariloche official yesterday defended the town's past, saying that prominent Nazis were accepted into the community because the population was unaware of their crimes.
Don Sheeley, Aspen's sister city coordinator, said he will meet with local Jews to address their concerns at a time and location yet to be determined.
Sheeley also said Aspen's population should remember the mission of the program is to promote dialogue and cultural exchange.
"We understand that this is a sensitive topic, so we're hoping to meet with the local Jewish population and see if we can't find some common ground on this issue," Sheeley said. "We're also hoping to get a letter from Bariloche's mayor, explaining the town's position."
Rabbi Mendel Mintz, president of Aspen's Jewish Resource Center, said that news of Bariloche's past "touched a nerve" among Aspen Jews. He refused to comment further, but said he will be meeting with Aspen's Jewish community to consider a possible collective response.
A prominent member of the Jewish community told The Aspen Times on condition of anonymity that many Jews were "furious" with Aspen Mayor Helen Klanderud's response to news of Bariloche's past. In a March 18 article, Klanderud said that "to resurrect something that's nearly 60 years old is irresponsible."
Klanderud said she is working to address the concerns of Jews in the community. She said she encourages dialogue among Aspen's population, but needs to "gather more information" about Bariloche's past before offering further comment.
She said the March 18 article in The Aspen Times, which relied heavily on the reporting of the British Daily Telegraph newspaper, was unreliable and needed confirmation. The Telegraph article appeared after a controversial guidebook to former homes of Nazis in Bariloche was published by a local author.
"We are fact-finding as we can," Klanderud said. "[The Aspen Times] story was based on a story based on a book. People start reacting from very deep feelings about this, but whatever is factual needs to be considered, too.
"I will be talking to Bariloche's mayor about this."
Bariloche's mayor could not be reached for comment yesterday. Carlos Caniu, the director general for Bariloche speaking on behalf of the mayor, said Nazis did reside in the town, but that this should not reflect poorly on Bariloche's residents.
Caniu, who recently moved to Bariloche, said local citizens did not know the Nazis had committed crimes until 10 years ago, when senior SS officer Erich Priebke was extradited to Italy to stand trial for ordering the execution of 335 Italians.
"[The Nazis] adapted themselves to our community," Caniu said through an interpreter. "They worked as any other citizens. We don't think they should have been rejected in any way just because they were Nazis.
"When [SS officer] Priebke was convicted 10 years ago, we started associating who everyone was. Obviously, if someone committed a crime, he should be condemned," Caniu added later.
Bariloche sister city official Nicolas Spagat has a different take on the town's history. Spagat, a Jew who has lived in Bariloche since 1945, said in the Times' March 18 article that residents were aware that Nazis were embedded in the community.
"There were Nazis here," Spagat said. "It was an amazing time ... there were German Jews and German Nazis all working to build a community ... it was a small town. What were you going to do, shoot the Nazis?"
Aspen's Jewish community is waiting to hear the response from Aspen and Bariloche officials before taking a position on the issue, according to Mintz. Nahum Amiran, an Aspen resident with Israeli citizenship, said whatever the outcome, city officials should address the issue thoroughly and carefully.
"The reaction of certain officials pooh-poohing this story as if it's nothing, making an instant reply, shooting from the hip, is very upsetting," Amiran said. "There are people with numbers on their arms still living among us."
Eben Harrell's e-mail address is eharrell@aspentimes.com
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Large number of Nazis relocated to S. America
Eben Harrell
March 26, 2004
Here is what we know about Bariloche's Nazi past:
In the years following World War II, the government of Juan Peron, a known Nazi sympathizer, turned a blind eye to the numbers of Nazis entering Argentina. The so-called rat-line, a clandestine route used by Nazis to escape from Germany to South America, brought hundreds of war criminals into the country, where many became established members of their local communities.
Due to its similarity to Austrian alpine villages, the Andean town of Bariloche was a favorite spot for Nazis, according to the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a Jewish rights organization named after the renowned Nazi-hunter.
The Wiesenthal Center confirmed that Joseph Schwammberger, commander of the Polish ghetto Przemysl, SS officer Erich Priebke and possibly even Joseph Mengele, the Auschwitz death camp doctor known as the "Angel of Death," resided in or near the town.
Longtime Bariloche resident and sister city official Nicolas Spagat told The Aspen Times last week that he remembered going to school with the children of Frederich Lantschner, the former Nazi governor of the Tyrol.
There are no high-ranking Nazis thought be living in Bariloche today.
Former SS officer Priebke, the only Nazi extradited from the town, lived in Bariloche under his real name. In 1996, Priebke was sentenced to life in prison by an Italian court for ordering the massacre of 335 Italians, including 75 Jews.
Priebke was arrested in 1994 after ABC News' "Primetime" sent anchorman Sam Donaldson to interview him.
In a 1996 interview for the Academy of Achievement museum, Donaldson said the program that led to Priebke's capture was his "greatest achievement" as a journalist.
"In 1994, I went down to Bariloche, Argentina. And I encountered an 80-year-old man that I knew was going to be walking down a street at a certain hour, with two cameras to talk to him. 'Erich Priebke? You were the No. 2 Gestapo chief in Rome in World War II?' I asked. 'Yes,' he said. ... I thought I was in the movies. Priebke deported six to seven thousand Jews to their deaths in the death camps. There he was, living under his own name, a pillar of the community in Bariloche," Donaldson remembered.
Priebke was arrested by the Italian government shortly after the "Primetime" interview and sentenced to life in prison. At the time, he was a delicatessen owner and principal of a local German school in Bariloche.
Priebke is still remembered with affection by some Bariloche residents. Cecilia Maahs, a former neighbor of Priebke's, told The Aspen Times on Thursday that Priebke was beloved by the town's population.
"He was well-respected by the people. He was very correct. People loved him a lot here. He was very open, he didn't hide anything ... he said he had been in Italy. We were shocked when he was arrested. I don't think feelings changed for him," Maahs said through an interpreter.
Eben Harrell's e-mail address is eharrell@aspentimes.com
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Bariloche should respond
The reality that Aspen has long been drifting away from the humanistic tradition of The Aspen Institute founders was evident in reported reactions to the disclosure that our town's newest sister city was a haven for Nazis following Germany's defeat.
Instead of taking this information seriously, it was summarily dismissed as a "non-story." Such disregard and defensiveness would be expected from officials in a town whose world view does not extend beyond immediate commercial and public relations interests, but is sadly surprising here. The appropriate response would have been to initiate deeper inquiries about Bariloche in historic context.
Bariloche is now affluent because the fugitives brought with them money from the international Nazi organization, Odessa, which funded escapes and new lives for S.S. officers and other Nazi officials, who found an admiring welcome from Juan Peron's fascist government, whose heirs today control the Tacuara gangs responsible for the spate in recent years of terrorist attacks against Jewish institutions in Buenos Aeries.
Nicolas Spagat, a native of Bariloche, conveniently Jewish, describes growing up in a productive postwar paradise in which Jewish refugees and Nazi fugitives existed in harmony. "What were you going to do?" Spagat asks pragmatically, "shoot the Nazis?"
No, Mr. Spagat, not shoot them, but have them extradited and tried as war criminals. These were not ordinary Germans who had looked the other way in the Hitler years, these were his henchmen. Both Germany and Japan have unconditionally repudiated their past, adamantly apologized for their actions, while Bariloche's present culture has been described by an objective source as one in which the Nazis are still held in fond esteem. I would have no problem embracing Bariloche as our sister city once such a repudiation was unequivocally stated.
To Mayor Klanderud's remark that, "To resurrect something that's nearly 60 years old is irresponsible," I reply that the irresponsibility lies in not insisting upon the denouncement of a Nazi past from a sister city. Yes, six decades is a long time - a long time of life denied to the exterminated millions. Many survivors of the Holocaust are still alive; their children and grandchildren still bear emotional scars from the annihilation of their families.
I invite my fellow Aspenites to call upon our leadership to insist that Bariloche repudiate its past, to denounce what those Nazis it harbored stood for, to clearly state that harboring those criminals was a crime - or lose its right to be a sister city of Aspen, a town which, in taking such a stand, will go a long way toward reviving the increasingly lost values of its own past.
Nahum Amiran/Aspen
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What was the point?
One of the main goals of the Sister Cities program is to promote peace throughout the world. Eben Harrell’s front-page article in The Aspen Times on March 18, 2004, “Aspen sister city former Nazi haven” was not written from the perspective of peace. One person can sabotage the countless hours that many dedicated volunteers have given to create a program that helps to improve international relations.
In January, we hosted a Sister Cities exchange student from Japan; at that same time the film “Fog of War” was released, which shows excerpts from the U.S. fire bombing of the civilian population of Tokyo, that has been acknowledged as a war crime. Both of our sons have visited Japan. The Japanese people have shown an inordinate level of forgiveness to participate in an exchange program with citizens of a nation which has committed such atrocities.
We are currently hosting a junior in high school from Bariloche, Argentina. He has lived with our family for two months. He did not understand the intent behind Eben Harrell’s article. Our student has no relation to Nazi Germany, he has arrived in our community in good faith; we are sending our son to his community of Bariloche, with the highest hopes for a positive exchange.
When the students from Aspen arrive in Bariloche, it would be easy for their local paper to run an article about Aspen explaining that Governor Pitkin (for whom our county is named) “called for the extermination of all Ute Indians.” I’m sure that would produce some very welcoming questions for our students. Perhaps a good investigative reporter could shed some light on the haven Aspen currently provides for some of its notorious citizens and guests.
It is possible that Eben is oblivious to the hurt he has caused with his inflammatory article, in his broad-brush attempt to right past wrongs. What I question is why The Aspen Times would print the article with its sensationally large headline; what positive point were you trying to make?
I suggest that Eben commit a few months of his life to hosting a child from another culture. Make his meals, do his laundry, help him with his homework, nurse him when he’s ill, comfort him when he is homesick. The time spent might engender the compassion necessary to apologize to the people involved with the Sister Cities Exchange program for the time they will have to give to repair the damage of his undiplomatic remarks.
Enormous unconscionable wrongs have been committed throughout time, to multitudinous cultures of people. The people of the Sister Cities Exchange program are making their best efforts to provide relationships between individuals to promote a peaceful future.
The Aspen Times could make a conscious choice toward highlighting the efforts of those committed to peace or unconsciously choose to stir up the embers of hatred and thus, perpetuate war.
Elizabeth Boyles
Aspen
Ze zeggen dat ze zijn schedel hebben. Niemand weet of dat ook daadwerkelijk zo isquote:Op woensdag 8 februari 2006 13:14 schreef Tranceptor het volgende:
Ik denk persoonlijk dat een aantal van de heren bij Hitler die laatste dagen enerzijds bezopen waren en daardoor moeite hadden met het aangeven van de juiste dag. Anderzijds zit je natuurlijk wel 2 weken in zo'n bunker waar iedere dag op de andere lijkt.
Deze twee factoren zullen allicht meegespeeld hebben bij het idee dat Hitler de ene of de andere dag nog zou leven. Ik denk dat weinig mensen meer konden ontkomen aan het idee dat het nu echt over was en dat Hitler ook geen soelaas meer kon bieden. Daarom hadden de meesten denk ik de neiging zich in zichzelf te keren en te kijken hoe zij eruitkwamen.
Daarom had Hitler's zelfmoord wellicht minder impact (waardoor die datum zo goed bij iedereen was binnengedrongen). Het doet er ook weinig toe. De Russen hebben zijn schedel en het is zijn DNA. Het zijn allemaal broodje-aapverhalen door mensen die de materie niet kennen en niets beter te doen hebben dan mooie complottheorieen te bedenken om hun eigen saaie, voorspelbare leventjes nog enige kleur te geven.
P.S. Churchill wilde de heren nazi's tegen de wand zetten en afschieten zonder vorm van proces, wat een onzin staat hierboven zeg.Hij gooide het vast op een dealtje met de nazi's terwijl hij ze dood wilde hebben.
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