Crisis in Oekraïne #118 And so it begins

twitter:

leonidragozin twitterde op zondag 17-08-2014 om 00:28:26 "The world is a matrix and we are computer programmes living within it" - DNR deputy defence minister Fedor Berezin. http://t.co/tf0aOBYp3t reageer retweet

Fedor, comment resigned to start Shooting Girkina.

- I will not say anything about it. Refer to Boroday, I'm not Boroday.

- So Igor resigned?

- I do not give a comment on the matter. On any other - let.

- You will replace it?

- Are you laughing? I am too small person in this matrix.

- Internet media wrote as if he was wounded.

- Bullshit. Internet - a big dump, if I did not know? Believe nothing is impossible. Only my eyes that can see for yourself, and then with great hesitation. All the apparent might be a failure in the program, an error in the matrix, you know, - zeros and ones.

- I do not see Fedor. You is the second time about the matrix say.

- And you do not know about it?

- About the film?

- Well, about the film, for example. The idea of ​​what? All we do not exist, and is the program. You do not understand something? Here you are looking for a pencil - he just had the nose, and now no. They searched the whole house. And then - again! - Lies behind the ear. But it also was not behind the ear. Here is a matrix, the failure of the program. Programmer intervened, stuck a pencil back, well, you do not worry, and you continue to live as if.

- Okay, let's say. But when did you last see Igor Ivanovich? He no longer appeared in public.

- Why should he go out in public? He did not do this.

- Would you call him now though. You never know what ...

- Here's another. I will not call anyone.

- Well, as you wish.

- Perhaps there is no Igor Ivanovich actually.

- I mean - no?

- Yes, in a very real! I'm telling you - maybe everything is a matrix, and we all like programs written in advance by someone? Maybe we all have in the matrix and live.

- So, Igor Ivanovich, perhaps, was not really the case?

- Yes, there was nobody. And we do not really exist. Once the matrix. The program works, you live, you think that's all right. Here are drinking coffee at the moment now. And coffee does not exist, it is not.

- Donetsk People's Republic also does not exist?

- Well, wait just so. I told you about the scale of the universe.

- You put so much effort on the DNR, and it does not exist?

- People's Republic of Donetsk will exist. Crash of our not yet occurred, it is too early for us. You see, the crazy Ukrainian government bombed everything. Why is it done? Because despair there they time is running out.

- What are the terms?

- Well, timing, you know? Internal tension is growing. Is about to collapse all the Ukrainian system of their own matrix. Therefore, they need to do it faster, faster to calm everything to say (to the West. - PK): "All we have is good, let us borrow money!" So they all in Kiev will soon collapse, and we still have slightly used, and they babahnut themselves. Do not even need to fight, the main thing to sit in ambush and wait.

- But the Ukrainian army comes, as you sit.

- Because, look all around sit, drink beer in FIG, nobody wants to fight.

- You mean the fighters? You can reason with them even now.

- I'm not talking about them now. Talking about those who are now on the sofas in their homes sit. About civilians who do not want to defend their country. Here are today completely innocent people were killed, I have witnessed: a bunch krovischi, Ukrainian military fired on the city, and people die because some guys do not go donchane defend the homeland ...

- What kind of home, Fedor?

- His home. We were born here, I was born here in Donetsk. We are in the national liberation war of the Russian people. Russian people!

- So where is your homeland?

- My Country? .. Matrix - my homeland! What do you knock me?

- I wonder what you call homeland.

- Well take about borders of the Soviet Union - will be nothing like that. About.
http://www.novayagazeta.ru/politics/64868.html

quote:

Op zondag 17 augustus 2014 21:25 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

twitter:

ASLuhn twitterde op zondag 17-08-2014 om 21:06:28 1st armed nationalists R Sector threaten Kiev, now Ukraine parliament passes law allowing police to shoot without warning http://t.co/oXx2AcntnA reageer retweet

twitter:

ASLuhn twitterde op zondag 17-08-2014 om 21:18:13 Another disturbing aspect of Ukr shoot-to-kill law is how Turchynov's comments show lustration=cynical political tool http://t.co/oXx2AcntnA reageer retweet

[..]

Ja, dat gaat daar helemaal de verkeerde kant uit. Net voor de strijd in het Oosten begon was er ook al een presidentskandidaat aangevallen en volgens mij een andere vermoord.

Daarnaast waren er berichten dat sommige soldaten na de strijd in Oost Oekraine ook de corrupte politici willen gaan aanpakken. Laten we hopen dat Oekraine eens verstandig blijft en het niet weer op revolutie uitdraait.

quote:

Op maandag 18 augustus 2014 00:18 schreef Nintex het volgende:

[..]

Ja, dat gaat daar helemaal de verkeerde kant uit. Net voor de strijd in het Oosten begon was er ook al een presidentskandidaat aangevallen en volgens mij een andere vermoord.

Daarnaast waren er berichten dat sommige soldaten na de strijd in Oost Oekraine ook de corrupte politici willen gaan aanpakken. Laten we hopen dat Oekraine eens verstandig blijft en het niet weer op revolutie uitdraait.

Als je gelooft dat die president daar en premier schone handjes hebben of zelf iemand in die regering.
Heel Oëkraine is een zooitje dat is altijd zo geweest.

Volgens Strelkov zijn er grote verliezen aan de kant van Oekraïne.
De foto's die hij in een bericht op 15 Augustus gepost heeft op zijn vk, de verklaring voor de bijna lege trailers?

http://vk.com/strelkov_info

knip

[ Bericht 48% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 18-08-2014 11:43:45 ]

De pro-Russen:

Novorossiya Military Briefing – End of August 17, 2014

Bevat 3 elementen:
1. Brief Statement about Igor Ivanovich Strelkov

Colonel Cassad LiveJournal
2. 10:36 – August 17, 2014 – Colonel Cassad: Novorosiya Briefing
3. 20:52 – August 17, 2014 – Colonel Cassad: Briefly About the Most Important

Enkele quotes uit de tekst:

quote:

Overall, the nature of the fighting has not changed over the past several days the Junta is no longer able to advance everywhere and has been forced repeatedly to regroup before undertaking new strikes. Moreover, its defeats in the south have become systematic. Nevertheless, it would be too early to talk about overcoming the crisis before the Juntas offensive to the south of Debaltsevo is repulsed and Novosvetlovka is retaken.

Separately with respect to Voyentorg [Note: an ironic term for the notion of cross-border military aid coming from Russia]. Over the past several days, it has stepped up its work, which results in information seeping through to the mass media and symptomatic leaks from the DPR leadership. Certainly, no one will admit this officially, just as the presence of polite people in Crimea was not admitted until a certain moment. That is why the official line on this issue will remain as before all allegations will be refuted, which is not, in itself, blameworthy.

[...]

The Russian humanitarian aid column remains near the border with Ukraine. No go-ahead has been given yet. Most likely, they waiting for the completion of the battles for Novosvetlovka and the purge of the enemys SRGs that otherwise could attack the convoy on the highway.

Overall, as mentioned earlier, the Junta retains initiative to the north of Donetsk and, for now, its offensive there has not been stopped. The victories in the battles for Ilovaisk, Miusinsk and Krasniy Luch should not be confused for a victory in the battle for Donetsk. The situation remains complex and at the moment our forces hold the front with great difficulty.

Het huidige strijdtoneel:

- Ten zuiden van Lugansk langs de M-04 rond Khryashevatoye en Novosvetlovka

- Noord Oost van Donetsk langs de M-04 rond Yasinovataya, Zhdanovka, Enakievo, Debaltsevo

- Ten oosten van Donetsk langs de N21 rond Shaktarsk, Torez, Snizhne, Miusinsk en Krasnyi Luch

- Zuid Oost van Donetsk rond Ilovaisk en Mospino

- De zuidelijk pocket rond Uspenska, Stepanovka, Marinovka, Dmitrovka, Dyakovo en Latyshevo

[ Bericht 4% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 18-08-2014 12:40:21 ]

quote:

Rusland: akkoord over hulpkonvooi

_{maandag 18 aug 2014, 10:31 (Update: 18-08-14, 10:37)}

Rusland en Oekraïne hebben alle obstakels uit de weg geruimd voor het Russische konvooi met hulpgoederen voor Oost-Oekraïne. Dat heeft de Russische minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Lavrov gezegd op een persconferentie in Berlijn.

Wat er precies is afgesproken, zei Lavrov niet. Vermoedelijk zal de lading van de ongeveer 280 Russische vrachtwagens grondig worden onderzocht voordat de trucks de grens over mogen. Dat was een eis van Oekraïne, dat bang is dat de Russen ook militair materieel het land in willen brengen. Het Rode Kruis, dat de verantwoordelijkheid krijgt over het konvooi, had veiligheidsgaranties geëist.

Staakt-het-vuren
Lavrov onderhandelt in Berlijn met vertegenwoordigers van Oekraïne, Duitsland en Frankrijk over de toestand in Oost-Oekraïne. Hij bevestigde dat het overleg over een staakt-het-vuren erg moeizaam verloopt.

De Duitse minister Steinmeier zei kort na middernacht na vijf uur onderhandelen al dat er nog geen resultaten zijn geboekt. De partijen gaan in eigen kring overleggen en besluiten morgen of overmorgen of de gesprekken doorgaan.

Drones
Lavrov zei op zijn persconferentie dat Moskou het zou toejuichen als de OVSE met drones de grens tussen Rusland en Oekraïne gaat bewaken. De Europese waarnemers kunnen volgens hem dan zien dat er geen sprake is van Russische pogingen of voorbereidingen om Oekraïne binnen te trekken.

'Raket op bussen met vluchtelingen uit Loehansk'

Een colonne vluchtelingen uit de regio Loehansk is volgens de Oekraïense regering beschoten door rebellen. Ze zouden dat hebben gedaan met Grad-raketten en mortiergranaten. Dat heeft het Oekraïense persbureau Interfax vandaag gemeld.

Volgens een legerwoordvoerder zijn er waarschijnlijk veel slachtoffers gevallen. Een aantal kon hij niet geven. Mensen zouden zijn verbrand in hun auto's. De vluchtelingen zouden afkomstig zijn uit Novosvitlivka en Chriasjoevate.

De rebellen hebben nog niet gereageerd.

quote:

Op maandag 18 augustus 2014 11:47 schreef remlof het volgende:
De vluchtelingen zouden afkomstig zijn uit Novosvitlivka en Chriasjoevate.

klinkt als een vergissing.

Novosvetlovka en Khryashevatoye liggen ten ZO van Lugansk. Het zijn de plaatsen waar al dagen gevochten wordt in een poging om Lugansk te omsingelen. De belangrijke weg M-04 van Lugansk naar de Russische grens (waar het Russische humanitaire konvooi staat) loopt langs beide plaatsen. Dat konvooi zie ik om veiligheidsredenen voorlopig niet vertrekken.

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Op maandag 18 augustus 2014 12:12 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

[..]

klinkt als een vergissing.

Novosvetlovka en Khryashevatoye liggen ten ZO van Lugansk. Het zijn de plaatsen waar al dagen gevochten wordt in een poging om Lugansk te omsingelen. De belangrijke weg M-04 van Lugansk naar de Russische grens (waar het Russische humanitaire konvooi staat) loopt langs beide plaatsen. Dat konvooi zie ik om veiligheidsredenen voorlopig niet vertrekken.

Dat zal inderdaad een vergissing zijn, maar dat was MH-17 ongetwijfeld ook.
Dat krijg je als je 'kinderen' zware wapens geeft.

De zelfverklaarde Republiek Donesk heeft de doodstraf ingevoerd

quote:

Op maandag 18 augustus 2014 13:43 schreef TLC het volgende:
De zelfverklaarde Republiek Donesk heeft de doodstraf ingevoerd

“DPR" decides to "protect people" by death penalty

KYIV, August 18 /Ukrinform/.

The so-called Donetsk People's Republic introduced the death penalty and military tribunals.

According to the Ostrov with reference to the “DPR” press-center, August 17, the first meeting "of the Presidium of the Council of Ministers of the Donetsk People's Republic" was held, which approved the "Regulations on Military Courts of the Donetsk People's Republic" and "The Criminal Code of the Donetsk People's Republic," developed within the regulatory framework of the Russian Federation.

As specified, the death penalty is provided for the most serious crimes. Moreover, "the First Deputy Prime Minister of the DPR" Vladimir Antyufeyev said that introduction of the death penalty is "not a revenge, but the highest degree of social protection."

"We must be on the side of the victim, on the side of his family. We must protect the people," the Deputy Chairman of the Council Of Ministers” said.

Moreover, "the Presidium" has heard a report of "Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the DPR" Aleksandr Karaman on basic activities of "the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the DPR." He, in particular, reported that "Foreign Ministry" has developed and implements priority measures to create "the image of the legal, democratic state” in the so-called republic.

quote:

Belarus receives almost 26,000 Ukrainians - ambassador

KYIV, August 18 /Ukrinform/.

About 26,000 Ukrainian citizens have moved to Belarus over the past two months. Belarusian Ambassador to Ukraine Valentin Velichko said this at a press conference on Monday, a Ukrinform correspondent reported. According to Velichko, the issue of their employment and welfare is currently being resolved. The ambassador also said that Belarus was considering reducing the period of getting refugee status from six to three months.

Mbt het diplomatieke overleg dit weekend.

twitter:

mfa_russia twitterde op maandag 18-08-2014 om 13:21:39 #Lavrov: For now, we cannot report any progress on a ceasefire or political dialogue negotiations #Ukraine reageer retweet

'Escalatie rond hulpkonvooi zou Russen niet slecht uitkomen'

http://www.volkskrant.nl/(...)lecht-uitkomen.dhtml

twitter:

USNATO twitterde op maandag 18-08-2014 om 12:14:44 '..unprecedented period of peace has been challenged by Russia's aggression against Ukraine': http://t.co/xZpwbw0oAh http://t.co/dAAWlroSG4 reageer retweet

linked article: (Wall Street Journal, registratie nodig om volledig te zien)

quote:

A NATO for a Dangerous World
Russian aggression has made it clear.We need an alliance that is fitter, faster and more flexible.

By Anders Fogh Rasmussen And Philip M. Breedlove

We both grew up in the shadow of the Cold War, on opposite sides of the Atlantic, and we both remember the extraordinary day when the Berlin Wall came down. Until that day, NATO had kept the Cold War from getting hot. After that day, war in Europe seemed hard to imagine, as former adversaries became NATO allies and we worked to establish a new partnership with Russia.

Now, an unprecedented period of peace has been challenged by Russia's aggression against Ukraine. For the first time since the end of World War II, a...

quote:

Turchynov For Ukraine's Accession To NATO (13:47, Monday, August 18, 2014)

Speaker of the Verkhovna Rada Oleksandr Turchynov favours the idea of Ukraine's accession to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), reads a statement made by the parliamentary press service.

"Ukraine must become a members of he European Union and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization," he said in an interview with the Baltic news agency BNS.

Speaker opines, accession to the NATO is a reliable guarantee of protection of the state against Russia's aggressive policy towards Ukraine.

He underlines, consequent on the Russian Federation's aggression most of Ukrainians now support accession to this organisation, including residents of the east.

As Ukrainian News earlier reported, the NATO is likely to increase quantity of joint military exercises with Ukraine but will not provide military equipment to Ukraine.

Turchynov is sure Ukraine will be able to implement all reforms required to accede to the European Union by 2020.

Turchynov is in Lithuania for meetings with officials from August 17 to 19.

http://un.ua/eng/article/527483.html

quote:

Ukraine Crisis Reminds Americans Why NATO Should Not Expand: Not To Ukraine, Georgia, Or Anyone Else

The bitter conflict in Ukraine drags on. Russia appears to have decided against trying to conquer its neighbor. However, Moscow continues to destabilize Kiev by supporting Russian separatists. NATO remains divided on how to respond.

Most Europeans have little stomach for confronting Russia. Economic ties with Moscow are profitable, there is no treaty obligation to Ukraine, and no alliance member desires war. So Washington has taken the lead against Moscow even though America has little at stake in Russia’s misbehavior.

In fact, the crisis has generated a spate of U.S. proposals for military action. Some analysts and politicians advocate direct support for Ukraine and other potentially embattled states. Also popular are proposals to expand NATO.

For instance, ever belligerent Sen. John McCain urged adding Ukraine to the “transatlantic” alliance. Former UN ambassador John Bolton suggested putting “both Georgia and Ukraine on a clear path to NATO membership.” Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates similarly called for making NATO association agreements with Georgia, Ukraine, and Moldova. Other proposed candidates for the alliance include Armenia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Finland, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Sweden.

Efforts to expand NATO are strikingly misguided. Traditional military alliances were created to advance a nation’s security. They were not intended to act as clubs for international business, associations for shared values, or tools for political integration. Military alliances were supposed to prevent and win wars. During the Cold War the U.S. established the alliance to protect the war-ravaged European states from America’s hegemonic adversary, the Soviet Union, and its satellite-allies.

http://www.forbes.com/sit(...)rgia-or-anyone-else/

quote:

Op maandag 18 augustus 2014 15:34 schreef Automatisch het volgende:
'Escalatie rond hulpkonvooi zou Russen niet slecht uitkomen'

http://www.volkskrant.nl/(...)lecht-uitkomen.dhtml

quote:

Het Rode Kruis eist echter harde veiligheidsgaranties wanneer het de controle over het konvooi overneemt. Die garanties zijn nog geen onderdeel van de afspraken, zegt Hunin: 'Oekraïne kan overal groen licht voor geven, als het daarbij niet de veiligheid van de mensen van het Rode Kruis garandeert, gebeurt er helemaal niets.'

De situatie geeft Oekraïne de mogelijkheid de schijn te wekken mee te willen werken, maar ondertussen op een impasse aan te sturen: 'Oekraïne heeft totaal geen behoefte aan Russisch machtsvertoon binnen de eigen landsgrenzen. Dus waarom zou het dan de benodigde veiligheidsgaranties geven? Oekraïne wil juist naar de eigen bevolking uitstralen dat het de humanitaire hulp van de Russen niet nodig heeft.'

Niet zeker of dit helemaal klopt, er zijn ook garanties van de rebellen nodig. De humanitaire hulp vanuit Kiev heeft wel 10 steden in Luhansk Oblast, maar niet Luhansk stad zelf bereikt. De Oblast is zo groot als België.

quote:

Op zondag 17 augustus 2014 19:12 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

twitter:

myroslavapetsa twitterde op zondag 17-08-2014 om 15:37:34 Pavlo Klimkin says Stepan Bandera's grave in Munich wasn't blown up. Vandals broke the cross and started digging out the grave reageer retweet

twitter:

myroslavapetsa twitterde op zondag 17-08-2014 om 15:58:23 #Bandera spent 1942-44 in Nazi concentration camp Sachsenhausen for plotting revolution vs Reichskommissariat to create independent #Ukraine reageer retweet

quote:

At that juncture, with the war going very badly against Germany, Bandera was released in the hope that he would fight the advancing Soviet forces. He established his headquarters in Berlin and received German financial, materiel, and personnel support for his Ukrainian Insurgent Army.

After the war, in 1959, in Munich, Germany, Bandera was assassinated by the Soviet KGB (secret police).[1][2]

Assessments of his work have ranged from totally apologetic to sharply negative.[3] On 22 January 2010, the outgoing President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko awarded Bandera the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine.[4] The award was condemned by European Parliament, Russian, Polish and Jewish organizations[5][6][7][8] and was declared illegal by the following Ukrainian government and a court decision in April 2010. In January 2011, the award was officially annulled.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

Netjes aansluiten in de rij en wachten op je beurt...

twitter:

ChechenCenter twitterde op maandag 18-08-2014 om 18:07:17 Русские террористы сравнили Путина с Богом и сыном Бога. На этот раз связываться с Богом нужно только через Путина. http://t.co/FSjzZYn7dN reageer retweet

quote:

Op maandag 18 augustus 2014 18:54 schreef bedachtzaam het volgende:
Netjes aansluiten in de rij en wachten op je beurt...

twitter:

ChechenCenter twitterde op maandag 18-08-2014 om 18:07:17 Русские террористы сравнили Путина с Богом и сыном Бога. На этот раз связываться с Богом нужно только через Путина. http://t.co/FSjzZYn7dN reageer retweet

[ afbeelding ]

wtf

The New York Times
Rebels Killed Dozens in Attack of Refugees, Ukraine Says

quote:

Ukraine conflict causes its July industrial output to plummet

July's output fell 12.1 percent from July a year ago, accelerating from a 5 percent drop in June, the state statistics service said on Monday.

Production fell 28.5 percent in Donetsk and 56 percent in Luhansk in July from last July, the state statistics service said.

[ Bericht 31% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 18-08-2014 19:26:49 ]

quote:

Op maandag 18 augustus 2014 18:54 schreef bedachtzaam het volgende:
Netjes aansluiten in de rij en wachten op je beurt...

twitter:

ChechenCenter twitterde op maandag 18-08-2014 om 18:07:17 Русские террористы сравнили Путина с Богом и сыном Бога. На этот раз связываться с Богом нужно только через Путина. http://t.co/FSjzZYn7dN reageer retweet

[ afbeelding ]

http://potsreotizm.livejournal.com/3491316.html

quote:

West has more influence than Kiev on oligarchs’ armies in Ukraine – Lavrov

Moscow believes the West has more influence on various paramilitary forces in Ukraine - sponsored by local oligarchs - than Kiev does, Russian FM said citing the latest bickering between Right Sector and the Interior Ministry.

“The authorities in Kiev are not in control of the numerous paramilitary forces, including Right Sector, which, we estimate, comprises a large portion of the National Guard. The demarche of Right Sector towards the Ukrainian Interior Minister speaks for itself,” Sergey Lavrov said, adding that existence of armed groups sponsored by Ukrainian oligarchs, such as the Azov and Dnepr battalions, poses a great security threat.

“We work with our Western partners in Europe and the United States who can really influence those paramilitary units that don’t answer to the central government in Kiev. We know the West has such influence,” he added.

Lavrov was referring to the weekend ultimatum of the far-right group, which threatened to pull out its troops from eastern Ukraine and march on Kiev unless President Petro Poroshenko fires several police officials, including a deputy interior minister. The group later reduced its demands, saying that the release of its activists previously arrested by the police was sufficient.

http://rt.com/news/180972(...).U_Ilvie1ORw.twitter

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Op maandag 18 augustus 2014 19:21 schreef meth1745 het volgende:

[..]

http://rt.com/news/180972(...).U_Ilvie1ORw.twitter

In het kader van:

Als Het Westen stelt dat Rusland invloed heeft op de Pro-Russische strijders in Oost-Oekraine, dan stelt Rusland dat Het Westen invloed heeft op de pro-Oekrainse paramilitaire strijders.