Palestina en Israel #109 Staakt-het-vuren

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:07 schreef truthortruth het volgende:

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Dat jij de geschiedenis niet kent is niet mijn probleem;
Bijvoorbeeld 1834: naar schatting 500 Joden vermoord in Sfad (Noord-Israel) of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tel_Hai In het artikel worden nog veel meer gevallen benoemd.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:05 schreef paddy het volgende:

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Nou, dat is niet helemaal waar begrijp ik uit de info. Ze werden dan wel niet uitgemoord, maar er was toch wel verschil in rechten en ze moesten ook belastingen betalen. (de joden dan)

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:07 schreef truthortruth het volgende:

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Dat jij de geschiedenis niet kent is niet mijn probleem;
Bijvoorbeeld 1834: naar schatting 500 Joden vermoord in Sfad (Noord-Israel) of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tel_Hai In het artikel worden nog veel meer gevallen benoemd.

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Mandatory Palestine (English: Palestine;[1] Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasţīn; Hebrew: פָּלֶשְׂתִּינָה (א"י) Palestína (EY), where "EY" indicates "Eretz Yisrael") was a geopolitical entity under British administration, carved out of Ottoman Southern Syria after World War I. British civil administration in Palestine operated from 1920 until 1948. This administration was formalised with the League of Nations' consent in 1923 under the British Mandate for Palestine which covered two administrative areas. The land west of the Jordan River, known as Palestine, was under direct British administration until 1948, while the land east of the Jordan was a semi-autonomous region known as Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from the Hijaz, and gained independence in 1946.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:23 schreef Mylene het volgende:

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Even kijken, Joden die woonden in mandaat Palestina, pleegden kennelijk aanslagen tegen de kolonist de Britten, worden nu terroristen genoemd, maar Palestijnen die hetzelfde doen niet? Dan zijn het vrijheidsstrijders. Over hypocriet gesproken als je eigenlijk dezelfde redenering volgt.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:23 schreef Mylene het volgende:

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Even kijken, Joden die woonden in mandaat Palestina, pleegden kennelijk aanslagen tegen de kolonist de Britten, worden nu terroristen genoemd, maar Palestijnen die hetzelfde doen niet? Dan zijn het vrijheidsstrijders. Over hypocriet gesproken als je eigenlijk dezelfde redenering volgt.

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The Irgun (Hebrew: אִרְגּוּן‎) (full title: Ha-Irgun Ha-Tzvai Ha-Leumi be-Eretz Yisrael) (from Hebrew: הָאִרְגּוּן הַצְּבָאִי הַלְּאֻמִּי בְאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל‎, "The National Military Organization in the Land of Israel"), was a Zionist paramilitary group that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931 and 1948. It was an offshoot of the earlier and larger Jewish paramilitary organization Haganah (Hebrew: "Defense", הגנה). When the group broke from the Haganah it became known as the Haganah Bet (Hebrew: literally "Defense 'B' " or "Second Defense", הגנה ב), or alternatively as haHaganah haLeumit (ההגנה הלאומית) or Ha'ma'amad (המעמד‎).[1] Irgun members were absorbed into the Israel Defence Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war. The Irgun is also referred to as Etzel (אצ"ל), an acronym of the Hebrew initials, or by the abbreviation IZL.
The Irgun policy was based on what was then called Revisionist Zionism founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky. According to Howard Sachar, "The policy of the new organization was based squarely on Jabotinsky's teachings: every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state".[2]
Two of the operations for which the Irgun is best known are the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre, carried out together with Lehi on 9 April 1948.
The Irgun has been viewed as a terrorist organization or organization which carried out terrorist acts.[3][4] In particular the Irgun was branded a terrorist organisation by Britain.[5]
The Irgun was a political predecessor to Israel's right-wing Herut (or "Freedom") party, which led to today's Likud party.[6] Likud has led or been part of most Israeli governments since 1977.

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De Etsel (Hebreeuws: ‏ארגון צבאי לאומי acroniem voor Irgun Tzwa’i Le’umi - "Nationale militaire organisatie", ook wel afgekort als Irgoen) was vanaf 1931 tot 1948 de militie van de revisionistische zionisten in het Brits mandaatgebied Palestina. De Etsel splitste zich in 1931 af van de Haganah, onder leiding van de districtscommandant van Jeruzalem, Avraham Tehomi. Vanaf 1943 stond de Etsel onder leiding van de latere Israëlische premier Menahem Begin.
De Etsel vocht tegen het als illegale bezetting beschouwde Britse mandaat in Palestina. De operatiemethode nam meestal de vorm aan van terreuraanslagen en guerrilla-operaties. Daarom werd de organisatie door de Britten en ook door andere landen als terreurgroep aangeduid. De Etsel pleegde onder andere aanslagen, zoals de bomaanslag op het Koning Davidhotel dat het Britse hoofdkwartier was in Jeruzalem, op 22 juli 1946. Bij deze aanslag kwamen 91 mensen om het leven. Hierdoor verloor de Etsel de steun van de meer gematigde Haganah.
In april 1948 richtte de Etsel in het Palestijnse dorp Deir Yassin een bloedbad aan. Het totaal aantal slachtoffers wordt op minstens 110-120 inwoners geschat.
Na de stichting van Israël in mei 1948 werd de Etsel ontbonden. De ontbinding viel samen met bloedige gevechten rond wapensmokkel tussen Etsel en Israëlische strijdkrachten onder leiding van de latere Israëlische premier Yitzchak Rabin en de Etsel. Premier David Ben-Goerion liet een schip met wapens van de Etsel bombarderen. Strijders van de Etsel werden later op individuele basis toegelaten tot het Israëlische defensieleger.
Twee latere premiers, Menachem Begin en Yitzhak Shamir waren lid van deze organisatie; Begin was vanaf 1943 zelfs de leider ervan.

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The Patria disaster on 25 November 1940 was the sinking by the Haganah of a French-built ocean liner in the port of Haifa, in which 260 people were killed and 172 injured.[1]
At the time of the sinking, the Patria was carrying around 1,800 Jewish refugees from Nazi-occupied Europe who were being deported by the British to Mauritius, because they did not possess entry permits. The deportation was opposed by Zionist organizations including the underground paramilitary Haganah group, which planted a bomb with the intention of disabling the ship to prevent it from leaving Haifa.
However, the Haganah miscalculated the effects of the explosion and the bomb caused the ship to sink in less than 16 minutes, trapping hundreds in the hold. The survivors were subsequently permitted to remain in Palestine on humanitarian grounds. Who was responsible and the true reason why the Patria sank remained controversial mysteries until 1957, when Munya Mardor, the person who placed the bomb, published a book about his experiences.

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The King David Hotel bombing was an attack carried out on 22 July 1946 by the militant right-wing Zionist underground organization the Irgun on the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.[1][2][3] 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured.[4]
The hotel was the site of the central offices of the British Mandatory authorities of Palestine, principally the Secretariat of the Government of Palestine and the Headquarters of the British Forces in Palestine and Transjordan.[4][5] The attack, which initially had the approval of the Haganah (the principal Jewish paramilitary group in Palestine) and was conceived of as a response to Operation Agatha (in which widespread raids, including one on the Jewish Agency, had been carried out), was the deadliest directed at the British during the Mandate era (1920–1948).[4][5] The explosion caused more casualties than any subsequent bombing carried out in the Arab-Israeli conflict.[6]
The Irgun planted a bomb in the basement of the main building of the hotel, under the wing which housed the Mandate Secretariat and a few offices of the British military headquarters. Warnings were sent by telephone, including one to the hotel's own switchboard, which the hotel staff decided to ignore, but none directly to the British authorities.[5] A possible reason why the warning was ignored was that hoax bomb warnings were rife at the time.[5] From the fact that a bomb search had already been carried out, it appears that a hoax call or tip-off had been received at the hotel earlier that day.[4] Subsequent telephone calls from a concerned Palestine Post staff member and the police caused increasing alarm and the hotel manager was notified. In the closing minutes before the explosion, he called an unknown British officer, but, for whatever reason, no evacuation was ordered.[5] The ensuing explosion caused the collapse of the western half of the southern wing of the hotel.[5] Some of the inflicted deaths and injuries occurred in the road outside the hotel and in adjacent buildings.[5] Controversy has arisen over the timing and adequacy of the warnings and the reasons why the hotel was not evacuated.[5]

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August 20, 1937 - June 29, 1939. During this period, the Zionists carried out a series of attacks against Arab buses, resulting in the death of 24 persons and wounding 25 others.

November 25, 1940. S.S.Patria was blown up by Jewish terrorists in Haifa harbour, killing 268 illegal Jewish immigrants (see below).

November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.

July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the central offices of the civilian administration of the government of Palestine, killing or injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, but subsequent evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved.

October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.

June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8)

December 11, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate; in Jaffa, bombs were thrown into an Arab cafe; in the Arab village of Al Abbasya, near Lydda, 12 Arabs were killed in an attack with mortars and automatic weapons.

December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

December 30,1947. A mixed force of the Zionist Palmach and the "Carmel Brigade" attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.

1947 -- 1948. Over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were uprooted from their homes and land, and forced to live in refugee camps on Israel's borders. They have been denied the right to return to their homes. They have been refused compensation for their homes, orchards, farms and other property stolen from them by the Israeli government. After their expulsion, the "Israeli Forces" totally obliterated (usually by bulldozing) 385 Arab villages and towns, out of a total of 475. Commonly, Israeli villages were built on the remaining rubble.

January 1, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked a village on the slopes of Mount Carmel; 17 Arabs were killed and 33 wounded.

January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) which was used as a headquarters of the Arab National Committee, killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.

January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons, among them Viscount de Tapia, the Spanish Consul. Haganah admitted responsibility for this crime.

January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.

January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

February 15, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children..

March 3, 1948. Heavy damage was done to the Arab-owned Salam building in Haifa (a 7 story block of apartments and shops) by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured. The Stern Gang claimed responsibility for the incident.

March 22, 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion.

March 31, 1948. The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others.

April 9, 1948. A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, supported by the Palmach forces, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were captured and paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then shot in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.

April 16, 1948. Zionists attacked the former British army camp at Tel Litvinsky, killing 90 Arabs there.

April 19, 1948. Fourteen Arabs were killed in a house in Tiberias, which was blown up by Zionist terrorists.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

April 25, 1948 -- May 13, 1948. Wholesale looting of Jaffa was carried out following armed attacks by Irgun and Haganah terrorists. They stripped and carried away everything they could, destroying what they could not take with them.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:13 schreef Peunage het volgende:
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De Britten HADDEN het mandaat over het gebied Palestina, ze waren de conflicten tussen de Arabieren en Joden, en de aanslagen van Joodse terroristen op hun soldaten en officieren zat en daarom gaven ze het mandaat aan de VN. Dat is waarom ik begon over Joodse terroristen. Jij begon vervolgens over geweld tussen Arabieren en Joden.

Jordanië is in 1946 opgericht en valt buiten het mandaat van de VN. Een STAAT kan niet onder een mandaat vallen. Syrië en Libanon vallen ook niet meer onder het mandaat van Frankrijk, het zijn onafhankelijke landen, Staten geworden.

Dus je kunt niet zeggen "ik kijk niet naar wat er na 1946 is gebeurd".

Het mandaat Palestina, wat onder de VN valt, gaat over het huidige Israël en Gaza+ Westbank. Dat is een feit en kun je niet negeren.

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In de oudste, breedste, niet-politieke zin wordt hiermee 'het oude Palestina' aangeduid, een landstreek in het oude Kanaän die thans Israël en de Palestijnse Autoriteit omvat, benevens delen van Jordanië, Syrië en Libanon. Zo opgevat lopen Palestina's grenzen van de Libanese kustplaats Sidon oostwaarts tot aan Damascus, naar het zuiden tot aan de Golf van Akaba, en dan in noordwestelijke richting naar Rafah aan de Middellandse Zee.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:26 schreef deVerdeler het volgende:
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Gast... Ik weet dat allemaal en ik kan ook met een tegengeluid komen over de aanslagen van Joden op Palestijnen aldaar. Conflict begon met de kolonisatie.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:35 schreef Peunage het volgende:

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Gebruik je hersenen een keer!

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http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etsel

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Maarja, blind Israel verdedigen is natuurlijk veel makkelijker dan nadenken!

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:25 schreef deVerdeler het volgende:

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Huh... je verdraait geschiedenis. Je bent een moderator en dat zou je niet moeten doen. Belasting was een minimale bedrag voor alle niet-moslims die geen dienstplicht hadden. Joden spraken juist over de Gouden Eeuwen van die tijd.

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Of in de tijd van WOII toen de Marokkaanse Joden beschermd heeft tegen Hitler. Kan je niet zeggen van de christenen in Europa he.

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P.s. ik weerleg slechts een statement van onze medelid hier die alsmaar de religie als BRON van het conflict wilt aanhalen. Bron van het conflict is niet zo oppervlakkig als men denkt.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:37 schreef truthortruth het volgende:

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Nou uit de wiki dan maar;

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Mandatory Palestine (English: Palestine;[1] Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasţīn; Hebrew: פָּלֶשְׂתִּינָה (א"י) Palestína (EY), where "EY" indicates "Eretz Yisrael") was a geopolitical entity under British administration, carved out of Ottoman Southern Syria after World War I. British civil administration in Palestine operated from 1920 until 1948. This administration was formalised with the League of Nations' consent in 1923 under the British Mandate for Palestine which covered two administrative areas. The land west of the Jordan River, known as Palestine, was under direct British administration until 1948, while the land east of the Jordan was a semi-autonomous region known as Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from the Hijaz, and gained independence in 1946.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:40 schreef DeParo het volgende:

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Wat is nou je punt met die bronnen?
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Dus?

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Heb jij ooit iets positief gezegd over Israel?
Over blind gesproken je doet niets anders alleen van de andere kant van het verhaal haha zo!

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:44 schreef Peunage het volgende:
Bron:
Marjorie M. Whiteman, Digest of International Law, vol. 1, US State Department (Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1963) pp 650–652
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

En lees dit maar, dan ben je up to date;
http://en.wikipedia.org/w(...)mmittee_on_Palestine

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:46 schreef truthortruth het volgende:

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Jij hebt het over het mandaatgebied palestina, ik heb het over het gebied palestina.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:40 schreef Nielsch het volgende:
Gaza bij Egypte moet toch gewoon kunnen? Dan kunnen Egyptische veiligheidsdiensten orde op zaken stellen bij de grens met Israel en krijgen de inwoners van Gaza gewoon weer alle middelen die ze nodig hebben om te overleven en die de staatsterroristen uit Israël hen nu weerhouden.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:46 schreef Peunage het volgende:
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Waarom

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:45 schreef Peunage het volgende:

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Dat bussen en schepen met mensen opblazen terroristisch is, of het nou Joden of Palestijnen zijn die het doen.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:49 schreef truthortruth het volgende:

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Omdat de palestijnen zich noemen naar dat gebied.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:50 schreef DeParo het volgende:

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Niet bepaald, wat Palestijnen deden was verzet tegen de Joodse overheerser en Joodse vijandigheden en valt dus niet onder terrorisme maar simpelweg verzet of vrijheidstrijd, wat de Joden deden was terrorisme omdat er sprake is dat ze zich verzetten tegen een legitieme staat(Brits Koninkrijk), ongeacht of zij die staat wel of niet legitiem vinden, en daarbij niet handelen in het belang van een volk.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:51 schreef Peunage het volgende:

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:50 schreef Peunage het volgende:
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Dat is geen reden voor jou om in zo'n discussie over 'het gebied Palestina' te praten. Ik heb het de hele tijd over het mandaatgebied en dat is mijn posts ook duidelijk te zien. Ik spreek de hele tijd over het mandaat dat van de Britten over is gegaan naar de VN.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:00 schreef deVerdeler het volgende:

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Hoe kan daar nu de reden van zijn, terwijl nog niet zo lang geleden tot aan het begin v/d Islam moslims en Joden juist wel goed samen konden leven, samen konden werken en complete gebieden samen konden regeren. Terwijl de christenen en de Joden elkaar haatten.

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Op donderdag 22 november 2012 12:00 schreef deVerdeler het volgende:

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Hoe kan daar nu de reden van zijn, terwijl nog niet zo lang geleden tot aan het begin v/d Islam moslims en Joden juist wel goed samen konden leven, samen konden werken en complete gebieden samen konden regeren. Terwijl de christenen en de Joden elkaar haatten.

Stop eens met je eigen agenda op deze forum in te drammen. Wat jij zegt is kletskoek.

Haat tussen de moslims en de Joden aldaar is echt ontstaan sinds de oprichting van Israël.