[NFL] 2011-2012 #26 And so the waiting begins..

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Op vrijdag 10 februari 2012 16:23 schreef The_Playmaker het volgende:
Interessante segment op NFL Live gisteren. Daarin werd meer aandacht besteed aan de yards passing per QB en de invloed van YAC op die cijfers. Als je YAC weghaalt dan zou Matthew Stafford de QB met de meeste yards zijn, gevolgd door Rodgers, Eli en Brees. Brady zou niet eens in de Top 5 passers voorkomen. Zo zie je maar hoe WR's/TE's en soms ook RB's (denk aan een Sproles) de cijfers van de QB's enorm beïnvloeden. Ze zouden dan ook eigenlijk met net yardage passing moeten komen, dat geeft een beter beeld van wat een QB doet. Het is eigenlijk een beetje onzin dat een QB de credits krijgt voor een 2 yd screen pass die resulteert in een lange TD "catch".

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Op vrijdag 10 februari 2012 22:19 schreef SlamD het volgende:

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Deze stat vertelt gewoon niet het hele verhaal. Als de beste optie om een first te halen een screenpass is, dan zou de QB een pass voor -1 yd bij zijn statistieken geschreven kunnen krijgen (als alles achter de line of scrimmage gebeurd) terwijl er een TD gescoord werd. Natuurlijk is het een beetje krom als je geweldige receivers hebt, maar voor mij is de eerste prioriteit van een QB niet om zo ver mogelijk te gooien maar om zoveel mogelijk yards on the play the krijgen.

Vaak is een korte pass gewoon de beste optie, en om daar nou een statistiek bij te verzinnen die dat afstraft lijkt me wat vreemd.

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Op zaterdag 11 februari 2012 01:26 schreef The_Playmaker het volgende:

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Dus jij vind dat als de QB een pass van 3 yd gooit en de receiver ontwijkt 3 verdedigers en rent de bal 55 yd in de endzone dat een verdienste van de QB? Ik dus niet. Ik zie dan ook niets mis met negative yards toeschrijven aan een pass achter de line of scrimmage of gewoon géén yards. Dat is toch de locatie waar de QB de bal gooit of niet soms? Wat er daarna gebeurt is allemaal verdienste van diegene de de bal ontvangen heeft.

Ik zeg nergens dat het de taak is van de QB om de bal zo ver mogelijk te gooien. Ik zeg wel dat de QB soms vééls te veel credits krijgt voor een play of een TD dan hij zou moeten krijgen.

Catches zegt mij bijvoorbeeld ook niks. Ik kijk liever naar het % dat een WR vangt. Dat zegt veel meer over zijn kunnen dan het aantal ballen dat hij vangt.

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Op zondag 12 februari 2012 18:49 schreef SjaakVilleneuve het volgende:
post-season

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Hines Ward's constant, ear-to-ear smile tucked behind a black facemask has been a lasting image for Pittsburgh Steelers fans the past 14 seasons.

They won't see it again.

At least, not in a black-and-gold uniform.

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Op donderdag 1 maart 2012 03:42 schreef popolon het volgende:
't Zat er aan te komen maar toch jammer. Hines Ward .

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Op vrijdag 2 maart 2012 16:57 schreef The_Playmaker het volgende:
Interessante situatie in New Orleans. Wat eerst een formaliteit leek begint nu toch steeds ingewikkelder te worden. Drew Brees heeft nog steeds geen nieuw contract. Hij schijnt big bucks te willen en dat willen de Saints niet betalen. De GM noemt hem "very very good but not great". Mochten ze hem de franchise tag geven dan betekent dat dat ze Nicks en Colston niet kunnen signen. En dat terwijl Brees aangaf het team bij elkaar te willen houden en dat hij niet voor het grote geld zou gaan. Niet alle Saints fans zijn blij met Brees' plotselinge big money demands als het ten koste gaat van andere FA players. Ik ben benieuwd hoe dit zal eindigen.

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Op vrijdag 2 maart 2012 16:57 schreef The_Playmaker het volgende:
Interessante situatie in New Orleans. Wat eerst een formaliteit leek begint nu toch steeds ingewikkelder te worden. Drew Brees heeft nog steeds geen nieuw contract. Hij schijnt big bucks te willen en dat willen de Saints niet betalen. De GM noemt hem "very very good but not great". Mochten ze hem de franchise tag geven dan betekent dat dat ze Nicks en Colston niet kunnen signen. En dat terwijl Brees aangaf het team bij elkaar te willen houden en dat hij niet voor het grote geld zou gaan. Niet alle Saints fans zijn blij met Brees' plotselinge big money demands als het ten koste gaat van andere FA players. Ik ben benieuwd hoe dit zal eindigen.

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NFL security determined between 22 and 27 defensive players on the Saints, as well as at least one asst. coach, maintained a bounty program.[/quote
[quote]Investigation reviewed 18.000 documents totaling more than 50,000 pages. Commissioner Goodell will determine the discipline.

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NFL determined that former Saints DC Gregg Williams administered the program with knowledge of other defensive coaches.

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Discipline for the Saints could include fines, suspensions and forfeiture of draft choices.

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NFL investigation of Saints began in 2010 when allegations were made that Saints targeted QBs such as Brett Favre and Kurt Warner.

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Jason La Canfora ‏ @JasonLaCanfora Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
NFL investigation says Saints coaches and GM Mickey Loomis did not intervene to stop bounties when owner Tom Benson instructed them to

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Saints bounty system: players paid $1,500 for "knockout," $1,000 for a “cart-off,” per NFL investigation. Payments increased in playoffs

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The NFL is considering severe, sweeping disciplinary measures in the New Orleans Saints’ bounty case that could include lengthy suspensions of Coach Sean Payton, General Manager Mickey Loomis, former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and player leaders of the scheme, a person familiar with the deliberations said Sunday.

The person, speaking on the condition of anonymity because NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has not made final decisions on penalties, said some of the sanctions could be “unprecedented.” Payton and Loomis face discipline for failing to halt the practice of paying players for big hits on opponents. The bounty system was administered by Williams and involved 22 to 27 players, according to an NFL investigation revealed Friday.

The suspensions under consideration are a half-season or longer in some cases, the person said. Several other people in the sport said they expect Williams, now the defensive coordinator of the St. Louis Rams, to be punished severely.

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Op maandag 5 maart 2012 04:33 schreef The_Playmaker het volgende:

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Op maandag 5 maart 2012 04:33 schreef The_Playmaker het volgende:

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Op maandag 5 maart 2012 18:25 schreef rgras het volgende:

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http://www.nfl.com/news/s(...)est-deal-qb-declined

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Op maandag 5 maart 2012 17:31 schreef RobertoCarlos het volgende:
Hoeveel spelers zijn er nou daadwerkelijk geblesseerd geraakt en hoe erg?

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Four kickers -- Josh Scobee, Matt Prater, Mike Nugent, Phil Dawson -- have been franchise tagged and Connor Barth likely to become fifth.

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Op maandag 5 maart 2012 19:57 schreef The_Playmaker het volgende:

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Daar gaat het niet om. Het gaat om het feit dat de spelers geld kregen om opzettelijk spelers te blesseren en dat de coaching staff en general manager er helemaal niks aan deden om het te stoppen. Dat heeft niks meer met sport te maken.

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Op maandag 5 maart 2012 20:18 schreef RobertoCarlos het volgende:

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Fel antwoord op een simpele informatieve vraag

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Op maandag 5 maart 2012 21:32 schreef Boe-man het volgende:

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Favre en Warner

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Op maandag 5 maart 2012 20:00 schreef Days-Of-Wild het volgende:
Franchise tags vliegen je om de oren vandaag, maar dit vind ik toch wel het meest opmerkelijke:

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Kickers zijn kennelijk hot.

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Op maandag 5 maart 2012 21:59 schreef rgras het volgende:
Het verschilt per positie, hier wat cijfers van 2010: http://en.wikipedia.org/w(...)er_costs_by_position

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Peter King writes that, after an unflagged high-low hit on Brett Favre resulted in a sprained ankle, an unnamed Saints defender was heard saying on an on-field microphone, “Pay me my money!”

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Op woensdag 7 maart 2012 00:31 schreef The_Playmaker het volgende:
Ondertussen zijn Payton en Loomis samen met een statement naar buiten gekomen waarin ze toegeven dat ze van alles afwisten en dat ze er spijt van hebben. Ik vind het toch wel vreemd dat vooral Greg Williams en Loomis er van langs krijgen maar Payton toch wel buiten schot blijft. Die moet ook gewoon hard aangepakt worden. Vooral nu hij openlijk toegeeft dat hij er weldegelijk vanaf wist.

Peter King had ook interessant nieuws te melden rondom deze zaak:

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Op woensdag 7 maart 2012 01:21 schreef Boe-man het volgende:

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Favre vond het ook niet erg.

Het punt het is ook dat american football gaat om harde hits, dus met of zonder bounty, je probeert iemand zo hard mogelijk te raken.

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Op woensdag 7 maart 2012 01:31 schreef The_Playmaker het volgende:

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Er is een héél groot verschil om iemand zo hard mogelijk te raken of iemand zo hard mogelijk te raken met de opzet om hem te blesseren. In college krijgen spelers ook een sticker op hun helm voor een harde hit en daar is niks mis mee. De bounties waren geldbedragen om niet alleen speler hard te hitten maar ook per brancard van het veld te dragen.

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Op woensdag 7 maart 2012 02:12 schreef Boe-man het volgende:

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Ach, kom op zeg, die spelers verdienen miljoen per jaar, alsof die $1500 uitmaakt dan. Het is meer een poule systeem.

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Op woensdag 7 maart 2012 02:12 schreef Boe-man het volgende:

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Ach, kom op zeg, die spelers verdienen miljoen per jaar, alsof die $1500 uitmaakt dan. Het is meer een poule systeem.

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Freeman took offense to Jenkins' hit near the sideline not because it was late but because it occurred near his knee. Saints defenders hit Bucs receivers two or three times earlier with low blows to the knee area, including a hit by Mitchell that knocked Kareem Huggins from the game. Winslow also got up gimpy after a couple of submarine shots by Harper. The Bucs finally had had enough and Freeman went after Jenkins, who was whistled for an unnecessary roughness penalty for the late hit and an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for taking a swing at Freeman. The result was 30 yards in penalties.

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Josh Freeman: Saints took cheap shots
By Pat Yasinskas

The New Orleans Saints continue to take hits from every angle for running what the NFL has said was a “bounty program’’ over the past three seasons.

The latest shot comes from Tampa Bay, where Buccaneers quarterback Josh Freeman said he and his teammates were warned by their former coaches to watch out for cheap shots when playing the Saints the last three years.

“We just knew every time we played the Saints, they were going to take some cheap shots,’’ Freeman told The Tampa Bay Times. "I mean, it was always something we acknowledged. We knew Gregg Williams’ defenses were physical and they were going to get after you. Knowing what we know now, it’s not surprising that was the system that was set up for them.

“It is what it is. I’d just say it’s not surprising.''

During a 2010 game in Tampa Bay, Freeman was hit out of bounds by New Orleans safety Malcolm Jenkins, who was fined $10,000 for an illegal hit. Freeman said he knows many of the New Orleans players and has no personal grudges against them.

He also acknowledged football is a physical game, but he said games with the Saints were different than games with other teams.

"Everybody plays hard, but nobody goes out and tries to hurt each other,'' Freeman said. "You go out to hit people hard, you know, straight up. But we didn’t see whole lot of that other stuff except when we were playing the Saints.''

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NFL must admit that rules have changed

UPDATED MAR 6, 2012 2:47 AM ET

John Lynch played for 15 years in the NFL for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Denver Broncos. The NFL on FOX analyst generally was regarded as one of the hardest-hitting safeties ever to play.

The circus officially arrived on Park Avenue in Manhattan on Monday as Bountygate reached the offices of the NFL.

Former New Orleans Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams was summoned to New York to meet with NFL investigators about league allegations that Williams was running a bounty program in New Orleans and apparently at a few other places he previously worked (Washington and Buffalo).

Over the past few days I've heard a few people, including former players, say that this is a league-wide problem. That's total BS. I played in the NFL for 15 years for two teams and never once was offered money to knock someone out of a game. If I had been offered money, I'd be a really wealthy man today. I even called some of my friends that played to see if they ever had been offered any bounties. None had. Don't get me wrong, we had player-generated incentives within our locker room, like $500 for interceptions or forced fumbles, but never, ever for hurting someone.

I'm not saying that there never have been bounties. When I first came into the league in '93, I heard other players talking about them, but those were more in terms of big hits and not hurting people. Coincidentally, teams stopped that process once the salary cap became part of the NFL. Any incentives were seen by the league as trying to circumvent the cap.

And I certainly heard the rumors about the 2009 NFC Championship Game between the Saints and Vikings where a bounty was put out on Minnesota quarterback Brett Favre. In the league investigation that came out Friday, that now appears to be the case. The report said that Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma offered any defensive teammate $10,000 to knock Favre out of the game. Favre took some big shots in that game, and I remember thinking a couple of them were borderline late and could have been called as penalties.

Favre since has come out and said, "It's football" and that he is not upset with the Saints. That's the way Brett is. If I heard somebody had a bounty on me, it wouldn't have bothered me, but I certainly would have had my head on a swivel.

I think the biggest fallacy is that most players are out to hurt other players. I never experienced that.

As a safety, I did want players that came into my area to know they were going to pay for it. If a receiver came my way, I wanted to make it uncomfortable for him, to make sure he thought twice about coming my way again. Or if a running back was fighting for extra yards, I punished him to make sure he would have second thoughts about fighting for those extra yards the next time. But I never did it with the intent of injuring or taking someone out of the game.

That's the mentality that defenses are supposed to have, and it's how football should be played. It's ridiculous to think any other way.

It appears that most of the Saints chain of command knew what was going on. Sean Payton is a good friend of mine, and I think he's one of the best coaches in the game. While I think most of this is on Williams, some responsibility still falls on Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis if they didn't try to put an immediate stop to this once they found out.

With his decision, commissioner Roger Goodell has a great opportunity to reinforce one of his top initiatives of player safety, so he's got to prove he's serious.

Today's game is so fast, and players sometimes are being fined over a matter of inches. To do something as blatant as the Saints were doing — to try to hurt players and knock them out of the game — is egregious in my mind.

I think the commissioner has to make a big statement with the punishment. Whatever the punishment is, it needs to be reflected in the severity of what the Saints did. If he doesn't act accordingly, he'll lose credibility with the players.

However, there is one thing that is still bugging me about all of this. The league wants you to believe that the rules haven't changed. But they have.

I recently watched an NFL Films show on big hits that included old footage, and I can't tell you how many players would have been fined or suspended by today's standards — and I only watched for 15 minutes.

I think there's a little bit of hypocrisy going on. The NFL can't have it both ways. It can't celebrate the hits on one hand, yet come down on the players on the other. And that's always been the frustration of a lot of players.

I started playing in 1993, and I don't think I was fined for a hit the first four years of my career. Then, I was fined for the first time in 1997. I can tell you my game didn't change one bit. I was still playing the exact same way.

I've talked to Goodell, and I truly do think he cares a lot about the players. And if player safety is the way the league is going to go, then the first step needs to be for the NFL to admit that the rules have changed.

Tell players that with the new information the league has received, it thinks it's best for the players that the rules have changed. It will go a long way to help players understand the league's position, because I think the league loses a little credibility when it fines players for some of the unavoidable hits that are taking place.

I'm still not sure if the studies that have been done so far give us enough information to determine the true effect these hits are having on players. But I have talked to players who have been involved with the studies, and they say the guys who are feeling the most long-term effects are the interior lineman, the guys who butt heads play in and play out.

I guess you could say the lineman are a little like boxers; they are getting jabbed on every play. It's not necessarily the guys taking the big hits, but the guys up front who are suffering the most trauma.

The NFL is a multibillion-dollar industry. If you want to make safety better, dump money into technology. Develop a helmet that's safer. I'd challenge every graduate school in the country and give $5 million to the winner for developing the best, safest helmet.

What can't be forgotten is that football is a rough game and that big hits are a part of being under football's big top. It's one of the reasons why it has become America's No. 1 sport.