Revolutie in Libië #115: Waar de veiligheidschef ook is gearresteerd.

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Op woensdag 29 februari 2012 00:16 schreef Senor__Chang het volgende:
Waarom moeten we per se kiezen tussen 2 kwaden?

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Op woensdag 29 februari 2012 00:23 schreef Senor__Chang het volgende:
Maar wat hebben wij daarmee te maken?

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Op woensdag 29 februari 2012 00:43 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
\ en met Occupy is dat begonnen.

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Op woensdag 29 februari 2012 00:43 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
Westerse overheden hebben voordeel bij de dictaturen. Dus de mensen daar vechten niet alleen tegen "hun" dictator, maar ook tegen westerse regeringen. Daarom moet de bevolking van westerse landen de mensen daar helpen. De revoluties in het MO kunnen alleen slagen als westerse landen ook een revolutie doormaken, en met Occupy is dat begonnen.

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Massagraf in Libië blootgelegd: 157 lijken

In het Oost-Libische stadje Bin Jawwad is een massagraf blootgelegd waarin 157 rebellen en burgers rusten. Dat heeft het hoofd van de Libische dienst voor vermiste personen bekendgemaakt.

Volgens Omar al-Obeidi gaat het om het grootste massagraf uit de strijd tegen wijlen Moammar Kadhafi dat tot dusver in Libië is gevonden.'Dit zijn burgers die protesteerden en zijn omgebracht door de mannen van Kadhafi', verklaarde Al-Obeidi. Sommigen zouden zijn geëxecuteerd, anderen werd artillerievuur fataal.

Van tachtig lichamen is inmiddels de identiteit vastgesteld. Het overgrote deel van de slachtoffers die in het massagraf zijn geëindigd was volgens Al-Obeidi afkomstig uit het oosten van het land. Onder hen is een jongen van 17.

Bin Jawwad was tijdens de maandenlange burgeroorlog tussen het bewind van Moammar Kadhafi en de opstandelingen een belangrijk strijdtoneel.

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Op dinsdag 28 februari 2012 22:02 schreef Chooselife het volgende:

Libya: Blacks treated like Apes in the Zoo by rebels

3 Maal hoera voor de NAVO!

Hebben we met z'n allen toch maar even bereikt! Freedom, democracy and justice!

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Op maandag 5 maart 2012 08:55 schreef StateOfMind het volgende:
Men (zowel daar als in het Westen) gaat er nog spijt van krijgen dat ze Ghadaffi verdreven en vermoord hebben.

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Op dinsdag 28 februari 2012 22:02 schreef Chooselife het volgende:

Libya: Blacks treated like Apes in the Zoo by rebels

3 Maal hoera voor de NAVO!

Hebben we met z'n allen toch maar even bereikt! Freedom, democracy and justice!

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Op woensdag 29 februari 2012 00:39 schreef Rica het volgende:
Die landen en hun bevolking horen een normale ontwikkeling door te maken. Laat ze eens 50 jaar met rust. Het is nu al honderden jaren daar een en al inmenging van buitenaf. En, wat heeft het opgeleverd? Maar we gaan gewoon door, onder het mom van wij weten wat goed voor hen is. Over de andere motieven waarom we daar zo'n dikke vinger in de pap willen zullen we helemaal maar niks zeggen.

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From: "Reva Bhalla"
To: "Alpha List"
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:24:55 PM
Subject: [alpha] INSIGHT - Some thoughts on US, UK, France, Turkey

My briefing yesterday with the USAF's strategy group was to help prep
the USAF chief of staff before his trip to Turkey the first week of
June. In this meeting, there was a US lt col, French lt col guy and
British group captain, as well as the Europe guy from the State Dept's
Office of the Secretary (who I completely owned in the discussion. he
finally quit trying and then literally applauded stratfor's knowledge of
these issues). Most of the discussion I had with them centered on our
view on Turkey, the intermarium, Turkey's power struggle, etc. so
nothing new to add there. The State Dept is still trying to wrap its
head around how to deal with Turkey more effectively when it's becoming
clear that Turkey isn't ready to handle everything on its plate. THere's
also a lack of understanding on why Azerbaijan matters in this mix.
They're about to do what sounds like a pretty elaborate war game within
NATO, and they complain that every time they do this, they're not
allowed to call Iran 'Iran' in the game. It's referred to as 'Zagros'.
Why? Because the Turks insist on not calling Iran by it's name in these
things.

When I brought up Libya, and asked what's next in terms of the air
campaign, the British adn French guys had an interesting response. The
talk of UK only having 6 more months of funding for this air campaign is
all about inter-service rivalry, justifying budgets, etc. The Brits and
the French really don't seem concerned at all about the financial
aspect. THey said it's an expense, but it's not expensive. It's costing
each 1.3 million euro per month to do Libya (including the daily patrols
and everything else). By comparison, Afghanistan costs them 1.4 million
per month.

They are fine with the stalemate. The British guy, who had met with the
British air force chief a few days ago, said that no one is really
trying to force the issue at this point. the rebels don't want to ask
for state recognition until they get the West back. No one seems really
prepared to force regime change and give that commitment, but they're
willing to wait this one out until something gives within to make
Ghadafi fall (non-militarily.)
The money isn't what matters. What the Brits and the FRench are really
getting out of this mil campaign is a good, hard lesson from their
"American cousins" on command and control for these missions. The lesson
here is vital for them. THey gave all sorts of examples. When the LIbya
campaign began, France was still coordinating its mission with the UK
through this lt col French liaison in the Pentagon instead of directly
with UK. Now, finally, the Brits have set up a command office in Paris
for them to coordinate. Little things like that make a huge difference,
and the US is helping them along the way so that they can prove they can
do missions like this more independently and manage their neighborhood.
Classic balance of pwoer, as they put it. French-UK cooperation has
really benefited from this whole thing. They could really care less that
it's about Libya. They see this mission as a very useful boost for NATO
and that this raises the bar for new entrants.

I countered that you can't consider it a boost for NATO when you're
missing GERMANY (!) They acknowledged that NATO's original purpose is
broken. These regional realignments, with France, UK adn US working
closely together is the new future. They still seem to think that
despite warming German-Russian ties, they don't need to worry yet about
Germany. Their military is still largely seen as irrelevant, and so in
that sense, NATO is still doing the job of keeping Germany down and
Russia out.

The French guy joked that now Strauss-Kahn is out of the running,
Sarkozy doesn't need to continue the war in Libya anymore. He's got the
election

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Oost-Libië roept autonomie uit
BENGHAZI - Leiders in het oosten van Libië hebben dinsdag de semi-autonome status voor hun olierijke regio uitgeroepen.

Het besluit is genomen op een bijeenkomst in de oostelijke stad Benghazi, waaraan zeker 2000 mensen deelnamen. Dat meldt de BBC.

Voorstanders van de eis voor meer autonomie stelden dat het gebied al tientallen jaren wordt achtergesteld bij het bewind in de hoofdstad Tripoli.

De Libische Nationale Overgangsraad (NTC), de interim-regering van Libië, heeft zich bij herhaling uitgesproken tegen de oprichting van de oostelijke regio en waarschuwt tegen de opdeling van het Noord-Afrikaanse land.[..]

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Op dinsdag 6 maart 2012 14:26 schreef waht het volgende:

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En daar gaan we.

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Op dinsdag 6 maart 2012 14:32 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

Yep, popular uprising gekaapt door NATO en andere machtswellustelingen.

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Op dinsdag 6 maart 2012 15:24 schreef Im.Kant. het volgende:

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De Libiërs kunnen het zelf blijkbaar niet regelen. Zonder de NATO was die hele popular uprising van jou geëindigd in een nog groter bloedbad.

Wat mij betreft pakken we onze olieconcessies en laten we de Libiërs het verder zelf uitzoeken.

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Op dinsdag 6 maart 2012 15:26 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Wat mij betreft slachten we politici en CEO's af en laten het de bevolking zelf uitzoeken.

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Op dinsdag 6 maart 2012 15:26 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Wat mij betreft slachten we politici en CEO's af en laten het de bevolking zelf uitzoeken.

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Vernieling christelijk kerkhof WOII door Libische militie schokt Britten
“Sloop het kruis van de honden!” Op een video die dit weekend werd gepubliceerd is te zien hoe een schijnbaar islamitische militie vernielingen aanricht op een christelijke en joodse begraafplaats met gesneuvelde Britse soldaten uit de Tweede Wereldoorlog.

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Eastern Libya seeks semi- autonomy

Tribal leaders and militia commanders in oil-rich eastern Libya have declared their intention to seek semi-autonomy, raising fears that the country might disintegrate following the fall of Muammar Gaddafi.

Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC), the interim central government based in the capital Tripoli, has repeatedly voiced its opposition to the creation of a partly autonomous eastern region, warning it could eventually lead to the break-up of the North African nation.

Thousands of representatives of major tribal leaders, militia commanders and politicians made the declaration on Tuesday in a ceremony held in the eastern city of Benghazi.

They vowed to end decades of marginalisation under Gaddafi and named a council to run the affairs of the newly created region, extending from the central coastal city of Sirte to the Egyptian border in the east.

Al Jazeera’s Nicole Johnston, reporting from the capital Tripoli, said the announcement was only the beginning of a process.

“It is certainly significant, but we need to put it into context: first of all, they have announced the formation of a new regional council, and this will actually take a couple weeks to form," she said.

"At this stage, they say they would like independence, but they have not declared independence. At this stage they haven’t even declared a degree of semi autonomy.

Waheed Burshan, a senior representative of the NTC, told Al Jazeera that the tribal leaders were looking for political power, but the ordinary people of the east wanted a unified Libya.


“Well obviously, all Libyans have the right to express their opinion. But the fact is, for Libyans to consider such a split in the country and its governance, I think it is clearly not advisable. The Libyan people will not stand for it," he said.

"[For] majority of people looking for a unified Libya, the thought of having separate autonomous region it’s definitely not acceptable. I think people will react swiftly on this type of decisions. I think people are discussing the idea of demonstrating for several days to make sure such a thing does not happen."

The gathering appointed Ahmed al-Zubair, Libya's longest serving political prisoner under Gaddafi, as leader of its governing council.

Al-Zubair, who is also a member of the NTC, pledged to protect the rights of the region but also said his council recognises NTC to run Libya's international affairs.

Al Jazeera’s Hoda Abdel Hamid, who recently returned from eastern Libya, said the move will intensify the rivalries.

“People were saying, that according to the 1951 constitution which is now valid in Libya, there are two capitals: Tripoli as a political capital, and Benghazi as the economic capital. They want that status back.

"They also say we are so far away from Tripoli, a 12 hour drive really- and everything is centralised in Tripoli. For any kind of administrative papers, they have to go all the way and back."

The gathering of the leaders also rejected an election law which allocated 60 seats for the eastern region out of 200-member assembly set to be elected in June.