.quote:Krugman: Unsavvy People
But it’s becoming clear that there’s something important happening: finally, after three years in which Very Serious People refused to hold the financial industry accountable, there’s a real grass-roots uprising against the Masters of the Universe.
There will, of course, be the usual attempts to dismiss the whole thing based on trivialities. Look at the oddly dressed people acting out! So? Is it better when exquisitely tailored bankers whose gambles brought the world economy to its knees — and who were bailed out by taxpayers — whine that President Obama is saying slightly mean things about them?
Or, why don’t they try to work within the system? Well, how’s that been going for those who did indeed try? When palace intrigue undermined the likes of Elizabeth Warren even within the Obama administration, and Republicans have thrown their full backing behind the malefactors of great wealth, why shouldn’t protesters go outside the usual channels?
Finally, why not defer to people who know what needs to be done? Regular readers know the answer: the VSPs have been consistently, awesomely wrong, both before the financial crisis and after. Nothing in the recent record of policy suggests that the wise men of finance deserve any credence at all.
So, good for the protesters. And if the Obama people have any sense of self-preservation, they’ll try to mend fences with the people they have disappointed so badly.
Idd. Het mag toch duidelijk zijn dat deze mensen de straat niet op zouden zijn gegaan als de politici en de bankiers drastische maatregelen hadden genomen. Maar nee hoor, vlak na de bailouts keren de bankiers zichzelf weer miljarden aan bonussen uit. Goh wat raar dat mensen pissig zijn. Je hoeft niet heel intelligent te zijn en precies kunnen verwoorden wat je dwars zit en wat je oplossingen zijn, als de bankiers zich zo overduidelijk opstellen als de egoistische ratten die het zijn. Ieder normaal persoon zou daar pissig van worden, hoe dom of slim je ook bent.quote:Op donderdag 6 oktober 2011 11:20 schreef Resonancer het volgende:
[..]
Grote klasse, hij prikt er aardig door, die terugblikken zijn fantastisch.
Ik zie de waarde van democratie dan ook in het geheel niet in het analytisch vermogen van de kiezer. Het is een modernistische misvatting dat iedereen overal maar een mening over zou moeten hebben. Het mag, dat is belangrijk, maar het hoeft echt niet. Kiezen hoeft helemaal niet ingewikkelder te zijn dan vaststellen wie voor je belang op komt, en wie een samenleving nastreeft zoals jij die graag ziet. "Ieder voor zich", "alles eerlijk delen", "clean up the air and treat the animals fair", "gelijke kansen, beloning naar werk", veel ingewikkelder hoeven de keuzes niet te zijn en zijn ze ook in wezen ook niet. Je kunt wel partijprogramma's gaan doorspitten, maar uiteindelijk stem iedereen op iemand die hij vertrouwt en dat ie voor je opkomt of opkomt voor de samenleving die je het liefste ziet. En dat laatste is vooral een gevoelskwestie. Daar helpt een HBO-opleiding echt helemaal niks bij.quote:Op woensdag 5 oktober 2011 12:32 schreef Mystikvm het volgende:
[..]
Toch begrijp ik niet goed hoe jij een pure democratie voor je ziet. Het overgrote deel van de mensen is namelijk gewoonweg te dom om op te vertrouwen in het stemhokje. Je stemt op partijen of mensen, mensen met ideeën en beloftes die ze in de partijk nu waar kunnen of willen maken. Democratie is een soort So You Think You Can Dance, je stemt op wie je leuk vindt. Aan iemand die alleen de lagere school af heeft gemaakt kan je niet vragen of leider A geschikter is dan leider B, die stemt op basis van irrelevante feiten. Heeft hij leuke one-liners? Mag ik zijn uitstraling? God verhoede dat we onze artsen op die manier zouden mogen kiezen.
Behoudzucht is ook niet per definitie minderwaardig aan veranderzucht, dat is vaak een persoonlijkheidskwestie en een leeftijdskwestie. Nu merken de behoudzuchtigen dat ze dingen kwijtraken die ze als vanzelfsprekend aannamen, omdat ze hen ontnomen zijn door de rupsjesnooitgenoeg van deze wereld. Dat kan wel eens een reactie teweeg brengen van juist de behoudzuchtigen.quote:Democratie werkt niet echt, en zal nooit echt werken. Dit systeem blijft bestaan omdat de beslisbevoegdheid over wie op welk stoeltje mag zitten nou precies ligt bij die behoudzuchtige, ongeïnteresseerde massa die je zelf aanhaalt.
Een ander punt waarop de democratie faalt is dat juist de echte democraten vergeten dat het om macht gaat en niet om ideeen. Die leggen het dus altijd af tegen mensen die doorhebben dat het om macht gaat, binnen en buiten de politiek. Neem nou D66, ik geloof wel in hun oprechte democratische inborst, maar of het nou om dit kabinet gaat of om de EU, ze spelen het spel zo hopeloos naief.quote:Eens. Sowieso is de moderne economie een soort van Las Vegas voor snelle jongens in mooie pakken, die speculeren op geld dat niet bestaat. Een dergelijk systeem zal altijd blijven bestaan. Iedereen wil namelijk rijk worden, en met het geld wat je daar hebt verdiend koop je macht.
Uiteindelijk moet er toch altijd een meute aan te pas komen. En je hoeft niet heel intelligent te zijn om te beseffen dat er iets niet klopt als mensen eerst rijk worden aan voorspoed, en dan ook rijk worden aan tegenspoed, terwijl ze ook nog dat laatste hebben veroorzaakt. Uiteraard heb je leiders en voortrekkers nodig. Maar met gezond verstand kom je een heel eind, het moet alleen even aan gezet worden en sbs 6 af.quote:Ze hebben wel wat te klagen, maar nog steeds geen drijfveer om iets te willen veranderen. Ik zeg het nogmaals, men klaagt wel maar kijkt liever SBS6 dan dat men in het geweer komt. Revoluties worden gedreven en gestuurd door intelligente mensen, en die zijn nu eenmaal altijd in de minderheid, of ze nu veranderings- of behoudzuchtig zijn.
quote:Topman Fed steunt betogers Wall Street
De president van de regionale Amerikaanse centrale bank Federal Reserve in Dallas, Richard Fisher, zei donderdag (lokale tijd) dat hij ''enige sympathie voelt'' voor de protesten.
''Het zal je wellicht verbazen'', liet hij weten aan een groep zakenlui in Fort Worth in Texas: ''Maar er zijn veel mensen zonder werk, velen al lange tijd. We hebben een zeer scheve inkomensverdeling. Veel mensen zijn gefrustreerd en dat kan ik begrijpen.''[
De Federal Reserve is juist één van de instellingen waar de betogers tegen protesteren, omdat ze een belangrijke rol speelde bij het overeind houden van banken in 2008.
Ook president Barack Obama en vicepresident Joe Biden toonden begrip voor de frustratie van de betogers.
''Ze geven een stem aan een breedgedragen frustratie over de werking van ons financiële systeem'', aldus Obama op een persconferentie. Sympathie lijken de beide heren niet te hebben voor de betogers.
quote:Meltdown
The men who crashed the world
The first of a four-part investigation into a world of greed and recklessness that led to financial collapse.
quote:Wall Street protests spread to US capital
"Occupy" movement gains ground in Washington DC, as US president says his American Jobs Act will appease some concerns.
The "Stop the Machine" rally organised by a group called "October 2011" echoed the demands of the "Occupy Wall Street" movement in New York that drew more than 5,000 people, including labour-union support, on Thursday.
"The poor are no longer patient," said one of the speakers, Ben Manski, a Green Party activist from Wisconsin, from a stage near the White House, decorated with the "We the People" preamble of the US constitution.
"It took us long enough, but we are no longer patient," Manski told the crowd, a mix of young people and veterans of protest movements of past decades who descended on the square with placards, drums and sleeping bags.
"This is a sacred struggle, on a par with the abolition of slavery, voting rights for women and civil rights," Manski said, "and just like those movements, we are going to win."
The protest - which has a four-day permit - got under way just as Barack Obama, the US president, called the Wall Street protests an expression of the frustration that Americans are feeling.
"I think people are frustrated, and the protesters are giving voice to a more broad-based frustration about how our financial system works," he told reporters at the White House.
Obama also used the opportunity to push forward his $447bn jobs bill, the American Jobs Act, saying it would ensure tougher oversight of the financial industry.
"Any senator out there who's thinking about voting against this jobs bill when it comes up for a vote needs to explain exactly why they would oppose something we know would improve our economic situation at such an urgent time," Obama said.
Congress is to vote on the bill before the end of the month.
Occupy DC
Since October 1, a separate but like-minded protest group called Occupy DC has brought together about 30 people daily to McPherson Square, a stone's throw from both the White House and the offices of powerful lobbying firms.
But it was overshadowed on Thursday by "Stop the Machine", which originated a decade ago in opposition to the October 2001 invasion of Afghanistan and the subsequent Iraq war.
Al Jazeera's Alan Fisher, reporting from Freedom Plaza, said, "There are many desperate groups here. There's not just one group with one message."
"There are anti-war protesters here, anti-globalisation protesters, anti-capitalist protesters. People who are just saying that the financial system is broken," he said.
No uniformed police were seen at Freedom Plaza as the crowd swelled towards 1,000 around lunchtime under sunny skies in an open square that is a frequent venue for political protests.
In the afternoon, many of the protesters - led by a banner that read: "Chamber of Corporate Horrors" - set off in the direction of the White House, pausing at one point at the offices of the US Chamber of Commerce.
Several dozen people brought camping gear to Freedom Plaza, planning to sleep on the concrete surface through the weekend.
"It is time to light the spark that sets off a true democratic, nonviolent transition to a world in which people are freed to create just and sustainable solutions", said a "call to action" published on Stop the Machine's website.
Occupy NYC
Around 5,000 demonstrators converged on New York's financial district on Wednesday, their ranks swelled by nurses, transit workers and other union members who had joined the protest over economic inequality and the power of US financial institutions.
Police arrested at least 28 people and used pepper spray and batons to confront the crowd after protesters joined forces near police barricades.
According to protest organisers' website, OccupyTogether.org, frustrated Americans have planned "Occupy Together Meetups" in more than 500 cities across the nation.
The "Occupy Wall Street" protests started on September 17 with a few dozen demonstrators who tried to pitch tents in front of the New York Stock Exchange. Since then, hundreds have set up camp in nearby Zuccotti Park and have become increasingly organised.
De steun komt wel uit n hele vreemde hoek, " it's all part of the plan " ?quote:Are the NYPD and FBI Trying to Frame Anonymous, Occupy Wall Street?
In one word? Probably.
http://www.benzinga.com/n(...)s-occupy-wall-street
Ben benieuwd wanneer het alla Engeland word.quote:Billionaire financier George Soros’ fingerprints, for example, have been all over the anti-Wall Street campaign from the very beginning. And this week, the infamous hedge-fund boss publicly announced his sympathy for the protesters and their complaints about bailouts — despite the fact that he lobbied for even greater unconstitutional handouts to bankers in 2009.
But Soros’ support for the protesters goes far beyond his tepid public statements. In fact, the original call to “Occupy Wall Street” came from the magazine AdBusters, an “anti-consumerist” publication financed by, among other sources, the Soros-funded Tides Foundation.
http://www.thenewamerican(...)o-occupy-wall-street
Het past iig prima in dit verhaal:quote:Op vrijdag 7 oktober 2011 11:30 schreef SicSicSics het volgende:
Dat lijkt me nou echt geniaal hilarisch. Dat OccupyWallStreet 'mis- / gebruikt' en gestuurd wordt door een (aantal) hedgefund(s) om paniek te zaaien en zo meer winst te maken.
Want winst ten koste van alles en iedereen, da's 't mooiste wat er is!quote:Op vrijdag 7 oktober 2011 11:30 schreef SicSicSics het volgende:
Dat lijkt me nou echt geniaal hilarisch. Dat OccupyWallStreet 'mis- / gebruikt' en gestuurd wordt door een (aantal) hedgefund(s) om paniek te zaaien en zo meer winst te maken.
Die feilbaarheid blijkt hier maar weer eens te meer en bevestigd de onderbuikgevoelens van velen.quote:Op woensdag 5 oktober 2011 13:18 schreef waht het volgende:
[..]
Ze lobby'en zeker. Dat feit geeft aan dat de werkelijke macht grotendeels bij de politiek ligt, anders zou lobby'en verspilde moeite zijn. De feilbaarheid van de mensen uit wie de politiek bestaat is in die zin een nuttige eigenschap voor het bedrijfsleven.
bronquote:US super-committee members receive donations from big industry and unionsSunlight Foundation reveals 10 committee members were given $83,000 in contributions in 20 days after their appointment
reddit this Ewen MacAskill in Washington guardian.co.uk, Thursday 6 October 2011 21.41 BST Article history
Republican congressman Dave Camp (left) received $26,500 in donations, according to the Sunlight Foundation. Photograph: Harry Hamburg/AP
Members of the congressional committee charged with making one of the most sensitive economic decisions facing America, a $1.2tn cut in the federal budget, have received a series of donations from the defence, pharmaceutical, oil and other industries, figures have revealed.
The Sunlight Foundation, a non-partisan organisation aimed at greater transparency in government, published donations to 10 members since they were appointed in August to the congressional super-committee with responsiblity for recommending cuts and possible tax increases over the next ten years. Their decisions, due to be announced by 23 November, could be worth millions of dollars to the specific industries.
Another group campaigning for greater transparency, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, called for donations to members to be halted for the short period they serve on the committee, so their eventual decisions will not be treated as suspect.
The super-committee, made up of six Democrats and six Republicans, was appointed as part of a compromise between Congress and the White House aimed at resolving a month-long political standoff in Washington.
Sunlight, based on declarations of donations filed by members of Congress to the Federal Election Commission, found that 19 of the biggest political donors in the country gave $83,000 to the campaigns of 10 members since their appointment to the super-committee. The remaining two members, Democratic senator Patty Murray and Republican senator Jon Kyl, took no donations.
The donors included defence giant Lockheed Martin, drug company Pfizer, oil company Chevron and the National Association of Realtors, as well as the Teamsters union.
Sunlight described the figures as a snapshot, covering 20 days until the end of August, with figures for the whole of September available on October 15.
Bill Allison, editorial director of Sunlight, said on Thursday the public had a right to know if there was a conflict of interest. "I think that the committee is doing a lot of its work in the dark, and we know that lobbyists are trying to influence the process. We should at least know who is giving these members of Congress money, and who is meeting with them to influence their decisons."
He called on the filings of donations to be made daily rather than monthly. "If you know in real time whether a union or a defence company contractor is getting special attenton, there is a chance to react to it."
According to Sunlight, Republican congressman Dave Camp received $26,500, Democratic senator Max Baucus $10,000, Democratic congressman Xavier Becerra $15,000, Democratic congressman James Clyburn $9,000, Republican congressman Jeb Hensarling $3,000, Democratic senator John Kerry $8,930, Republican senator Rob Portman $4,500, Republican senator Pat Toomey $1,000, Republican congressman Fred Upton $5,000, and Democratic congressman Chris van Hollen $1,000.
Camp, the biggest recipient, received donations from American Crystal Sugar, Comcast, Federal Express, Goldman Sachs, Lockheed Martin and Pfizer.
Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (Crew) pointed out that it had sent a letter to Congress in August expressing concern and calling on the members to refuse donations during their period of service on the committee.
Crew executive director Melanie Sloan said at the time: "Americans need to have confidence that the solutions offered by the super-committee represent the best interest of all Americans, not just committee members' biggest donors."
Wie leidt wie af ?quote:In a recent article featured on radio host Alex Jones' website INFOWARS.com, it was alluded to that the 'Occupy Wall Street' crowd was full of nothin' but a bunch of 'commie retards' who love Obama and want 'world government'. INFOWARS.com has it right about 75% of the time in terms of what's really going on behind the "closed doors" of government.
To be fair, INFOWARS claims that the true intent of the Occupy movement is to shift focus away from the true culprit of financial corruption, the Federal Reserve. But its not just the Fed that’s to blame for the world’s economic woes- its the whole goddamned monetary system!
http://grantjkidney.com/a(...)all-street-movement/
quote:Occupy Wall Street: The Most Important Thing in the World Now
I was honored to be invited to speak at Occupy Wall Street on Thursday night. Since amplification is (disgracefully) banned, and everything I say will have to be repeated by hundreds of people so others can hear (a k a “the human microphone”), what I actually say at Liberty Plaza will have to be very short. With that in mind, here is the longer, uncut version of the speech.
Nice, wel te verwachten dat ze er zou zijn. Zeker als je zo'n boek geschreven hebt:quote:
Zie je hier op het forum ook terug, mensen willen en moeten alles in oneliners horen anders vinden ze het "te vaag ".quote:A few final thoughts. In this great struggle, here are some things that don’t matter.
§ What we wear.
§ Whether we shake our fists or make peace signs.
§ Whether we can fit our dreams for a better world into a media soundbite.
And here are a few things that do matter.
§ Our courage.
§ Our moral compass.
§ How we treat each other.
quote:Those looking for ideology in the White House should consider this: For the men who rule our world, rules are for other people.
Africa is poor because its investors and its creditors are unspeakably rich
When it comes to paying contractors, the sky is the limit; when it comes to financing the basic functions of the state, the coffers are empty.
What we have been living for three decades is frontier capitalism, with the frontier constantly shifting location from crisis to crisis, moving on as soon as the law catches up.
Regardless of the overall state of the economy, there is now a large enough elite made up of new multi-millionaires and billionaires for Wall Street to see the group as "superconsumers," able to carry consumer demand all on their own.
Protected businesses never, never become competitive ... Halliburton, Bechtel, Parsons, KPMG, RTI, Blackwater and all other U.S. corporations that were in Iraq to take advantage of the reconstruction were part of a vast protectionist racket whereby the U.S. government had created their markets with war, barred their competitors from even entering the race, then paid them to do the work, while guaranteeing them a profit to boot - all at taxpayer expense.
This is not the time to be looking for ways to dismiss a nascent movement against the power of capital, but to do the opposite: to find ways to embrace it, support it and help it grow into its enormous potential. With so much at stake, cynicism is a luxury we simply cannot afford.
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/419.Naomi_Klein
twitter:Kassius_Slay twitterde op zaterdag 08-10-2011 om 22:27:04RT @MMFlint: Massive turnout. Massive. WashingtonSqPark NYC. #OccupyWallStreet Growing so fast, NYPD overwhelmed http://t.co/TqYhAmwb reageer retweet
quote:Ben & Jerry's Backs Occupy Wall Street Protesters
We, the Ben & Jerry's Board of Directors, compelled by our personal convictions and our Company's mission and values, wish to express our deepest admiration to all of you who have initiated the non-violent Occupy Wall Street Movement and to those around the country who have joined in solidarity. The issues raised are of fundamental importance to all of us.
Founded in 1977 by Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, Ben & Jerry's is known for taking social stands.
In their press release, the Ben & Jerry's team outlined past positions they've taken as a company such as "support for a Constitutional amendment that would limit corporate spending in elections" and "opposition to FDA approval of foods from cloned animals".
The company is also known for their quirky ice cream flavors like Cake Batter and Phish Food ice cream. The newest addition, Schweddy Balls, was recently reviewed by The Huffington Post.
In 2000, Ben and Jerry's was acquired by the consumer goods conglomerate Unilever. They are now a subsidiary of Unilever, which trades on the NYSE under the ticker symbol UN.
In November 2010, the New York Times quoted the original founders who were no longer in charge and disheartened by the corporate takeover. Founder Ben Cohen was quoted as saying in a BBC 4 radio interview, "What we are learning is, if you are owned by a corporate that, despite whatever words they might say, does not share those values, it's incredibly difficult to maintain those values."
Nevertheless, the company has continued to carry take social stands such as this one in support of the Occupy Wall Street protesters.
quote:Betogers bestormen museum in Washington
WASHINGTON - Een menigte die betoogde tegen de macht van grote bedrijven, heeft zaterdag het museum voor lucht- en ruimtevaart in de Amerikaanse hoofdstad Washington bestormd.
De instelling moest haar deuren sluiten. Het is niet bekend waarom de honderden demonstranten het hadden voorzien op het museum.
Dat meldden Amerikaanse media zaterdag. In de Verenigde Staten zijn de laatste tijd steeds meer demonstraties tegen de macht van banken en het bedrijfsleven.
De beweging Occupy Wall Street protesteerde in steden als New York, Boston, Chicago, Seattle en San Francisco.
Wel apart dat ze een museum willen bestormen. Ik zie niet in wat je daarmee wilt bereiken. Sterker nog, door dit soort akties vind ik deze betogers opeens een stuk minder sympathiek.quote:
Misschien dat "Amerikaanse media" het daarom ook wel zo melden.quote:Op zondag 9 oktober 2011 01:26 schreef Eyjafjallajoekull het volgende:
[..]
Wel apart dat ze een museum willen bestormen. Ik zie niet in wat je daarmee wilt bereiken. Sterker nog, door dit soort akties vind ik deze betogers opeens een stuk minder sympathiek.
Zou kunnen. Ik sluit het zwart maken van deze betogers door sommige media en politici niet uit idd.quote:Op zondag 9 oktober 2011 01:26 schreef Monidique het volgende:
[..]
Misschien dat "Amerikaanse media" het daarom ook wel zo melden.
Zouden best een paar provocateurs kunnen zitten. Gemaskerde demonstranten zijn altijd verdacht imo.quote:Op zondag 9 oktober 2011 02:02 schreef rakotto het volgende:
Zou me niet verbazen als het "thugs" zijn zoals de lui die in Egypte toen gebruikt werden om alles zwart te maken.
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