Revolutie in Libi� #112: Waar Gadaffi zijn aanhangers weer toespreekt

quote:

Op zondag 2 oktober 2011 09:24 schreef Die_Hofstadtgruppe het volgende:

[..]

Sorry dat ik op een bloedmooie zaterdagavond aan het zuipen op het strand was.

quote:

Maar om je vraag te beantwoorden: jullie vinden dat! Jij! En De_Nuance! En gelly en zo Oud-premier Rhodesi� (88) overleden

quote:

Op zaterdag 1 oktober 2011 10:44 schreef LXIV het volgende:

[..]

Dat is waar. Maar moeten wij dan accepteren de verliezer te zijn? Dan is religie/overtuiging X met een zeer actieve en agressieve benadering uiteindelijk altijd de overwinnaar. Waarmee eindig je dan?

quote:

Reports suggest that Nato forces are continuing to target the area.

One man, Ali, said he and his family were leaving because "we are caught between Nato bombings and shelling by rebels".

"Nato, in particular, is bombing at random and is often hitting civilian buildings," he told the AFP news agency.

Een Khaddafi-aanhanger misschien of een oprechte mening?

(...)

Few wanted to talk. These are mostly Gaddafi supporters and they seemed very stressed. As residents of Muammar Gaddafi's home town they are treated with some suspicion and their cars are searched thoroughly at checkpoints.

The few who would talk spoke of the misery that forced them to leave Sirte, of frequent bombardments and increasingly unsanitary living conditions.

quote:

Op zondag 2 oktober 2011 10:56 schreef Chooselife het volgende:
Berichtgeving vanuit Sirte is doodgebloed h�.

Ik vermoed dat hier massaslachtingen gaande zijn. Etnische zuiveringen. Uiteraard onder aanvoering van onze NAVO.

quote:

Op zondag 2 oktober 2011 20:52 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

whehe, lekker trollen.

quote:

Op zondag 2 oktober 2011 20:53 schreef Zienswijze het volgende:

[..]

Trollen of niet, we geven geen ene reet om de Libiers. Dit is simpelweg een nieuwe puppetregering installeren.

quote:

Op zondag 2 oktober 2011 20:54 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

Dat is heel wat anders dan het organiseren van massamoord.

quote:

Op zondag 2 oktober 2011 20:55 schreef Zienswijze het volgende:

[..]

Er zullen wel niet gericht bommen op complete woonwijken worden gedropt, maar een bommetje waar zich vermoedelijk strijders van Khadaffi zullen bevinden, zal wel afgaan.

Ergo, er worden smerige spelletjes gespeeld.

quote:

Op zondag 2 oktober 2011 21:50 schreef Zienswijze het volgende:
De NAVO laat zich voor het karretje spannen voor de oliebedrijven.

Oil, oil, oil.

quote:

Op zondag 2 oktober 2011 21:51 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

Tja, tanks & vliegtuigen werken niet op waterstof of iets dergelijks.

quote:

How David Cameron swept aside sceptics over Libya campaign

Guardian investigation reveals PM pressed for military action and Gaddafi secretly sought figurehead role

A Guardian investigation into David Cameron's six-month Libyan campaign has revealed how the prime minister overrode scepticism from his cabinet and MI6 to press for military action, and how Colonel Gaddafi secretly wanted to become a figurehead of the country "like the Queen of England".

In interviews with senior Whitehall figures and five ministers the Guardian has established that the National Transitional Council assured Britain that sleeper cells were ready to rise up in Tripoli once rebel troops entered the capital. Defence sources say Britain provided logistical support to the rebels in the capital, as well as in the Nafusa mountains, including a bombing campaign that cleared the way for the rebels to come down from mountains towards Tripoli.

Britain also took the lead in pressing, in the early summer, for the military campaign to be used to put pressure on Gaddafi from the west of Libya. The French, who had led the way in pressing for a no-fly zone in February after Gaddafi besieged the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, believed that Gaddafi could be overthrown from the east. Liam Fox, the defence secretary, describes the shift, supported by the chief of the defence staff, Sir David Richards, as "a tilt to the west".

quote:

Libyan dissident tortured by Gaddafi to sue Britain over rendition

Sami al-Saadi claims MI6 connived in his capture – and is also targeting MI5, Foreign Office and Home Office

A Libyan dissident is launching legal action against the British government after a cache of secret documents discovered in Tripoli exposed the pivotal role played by MI6 in his rendition to one of Muammar Gaddafi's jails.

In a case that threatens to cause acute discomfort to some former ministers in the last Labour government as well as senior intelligence officers, Sami al-Saadi is claiming damages from the UK for the years of torture he subsequently suffered.

Saadi has hired the same teams of lawyers who represented Binyam Mohamed, the former Guant�namo inmate. They have lodged a claim which names as defendants not only MI6 but also MI5, the Foreign Office, the Home Office and the attorney general's office. They have also called on Scotland Yard to launch a criminal investigation.

Earlier this week the lawyers demanded the government disclose copies of all communications mentioning the joint UK-Libyan rendition operation. It is unclear whether any of these communications identify the ministers said by Sir Richard Dearlove, the former head of MI6, to have authorised the operation.

A number of Whitehall officials have told the Guardian the renditions were the result of "ministerially authorised government policy".

The case currently relies upon a number of documents that Human Rights Watch, the New York-based NGO, found last month in the abandoned office of Gaddafi's former intelligence chief, Moussa Koussa. Among them is a fax the CIA sent to Koussa in March 2004, which shows that the agency was eager to join in the Saadi rendition operation after learning that MI6 and Gaddafi's government were about to embark upon it.

Two days after the fax was sent, Tony Blair flew to Tripoli to meet Gaddafi. The two men embraced and declared that they wished to make "common cause" in counter-terrorism operations. The Libyans then announced that they had signed a �550m gas exploration deal with Shell, the Anglo-Dutch oil giant. Three days later, Libyan intelligence agents bundled Saadi into a plane in Hong Kong with his wife, two sons aged 12 and nine, and two daughters aged 14 and six. On arrival in Tripoli, he and his wife were handcuffed and hooded, and their legs were bound together with lengths of wire. The entire family was then thrown in jail.

Saadi's wife and children were released after two months of being subjected to what he describes as "psychological torture". He was held for six years and says he was repeatedly beaten, subjected to electric shocks and threatened with death.

According to his claim against the British government, he was interrogated about Libyans living in the UK, shown photographs of a number of them, and on one occasion questioned by two British intelligence officers while one of his Libyan interrogators was present.

Saadi, 45, who is also known as Abu Munthir, was a leading member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), an organisation founded by Libyan veterans of the mujahideen's war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, with the aim of toppling Gaddafi.

He lived in north London for several years in the 90s, having claimed asylum in the UK, and a number of his associates suspect he was handed over to Gaddafi as a "gift", rather than as an individual who threatened British national security. The secret CIA fax makes clear that the plan was to render not just Saadi but also his family. Asked whether it had known what had become of Saadi's wife and children after the operation was carried out, a British Foreign Office spokesman said: "It is the government's long-standing policy not to comment on intelligence matters."

However, the severe mistreatment of prisoners in Gaddafi's jails had been well-documented by human rights groups, and was even mention in the Foreign Office's own human rights report that year.

Solicitors at the law firm Leigh Day and the legal charity Reprieve have identified several other documents in the Tripoli cache that support Saadi's case, including one that appears to show MI6 preparing the ground for his rendition five months before it happened. In a fax sent in November 2003, an MI6 officer tells one of Koussa's aides that the agency is talking to the Chinese intelligence services about "the Islamic extremist target in China".

Cori Crider, legal director at Reprieve, said: "The British security services have let slip that Sami al-Saadi's illegal kidnap was 'ministerially authorised'. So who signed the torture warrant? Was it Jack Straw? The Metropolitan police must launch an immediate criminal investigation, focusing on the highest echelons of British government. The British public, to say nothing of Sami, his wife and his family, have a right to know."

A Foreign Office official, speaking on behalf of the government departments named in the action, said it would not be appropriate to comment at this point. Nor would he comment on the allegations behind the action other than to say the matter had been referred to Sir Peter Gibson, the retired judge who is due to head an inquiry into the UK's involvement in rendition and torture since 9/11.

Saadi is not the only Libyan dissident to have found himself in one of Gaddafi's jails as a result of MI6's actions.

Abdul Hakim Belhaj, another member of the LIFG, was seized by the CIA and handed over to the Libyans following a British tipoff on his whereabouts. Nine days later an MI6 officer called Mark – thought to be Sir Mark Allen, former head of counter-terrorism – wrote a message to Koussa, referring to Belhaj by his alias, Abu 'Abd Allah Sadiq.

"I congratulate you on the safe arrival of Abu 'Abd Allah Sadiq," it said. "This was the least we could do for you and Libya to demonstrate the remarkable relationship we have built over recent years.

"Amusingly, we got a request from the Americans to channel requests for information from Abu 'Abd Allah through them. I have no intention of doing any such thing. The intelligence about Abu 'Abd Allah was British. I know I did not pay for the air cargo. But I feel I have the right to deal with you direct on this."

Belhaj says the CIA tortured him for several days before he was flown to Tripoli. "I wasn't allowed a bath for three years and I didn't see the sun for one year," he told the Guardian. "They hung me from the wall and kept me in an isolation cell. I was regularly tortured."

Belhaj was freed from jail last year and led the rebel forces that took control of Tripoli in August.

Senior figures in the last government have attempted to distance themselves from the rendition operations. After the documents were discovered, Blair insisted he knew nothing about them.

Similarly, Jack Straw, who was foreign secretary at the time, said in a radio interview: "The position of successive foreign secretaries, including me, is that we were opposed to unlawful rendition, opposed to torture or similar methods and not only did we not agree with it, we were not complicit in it, nor did we turn a blind eye to it." He added: "No foreign secretary can know all the details of what its intelligence services are doing at any one time."

Shortly after Blair and Straw issued their denials, Dearlove said: "It was a political decision, having very significantly disarmed Libya, for the government to co-operate with Libya on Islamist terrorism. The whole relationship was one of serious calculation about where the overall balance of our national interests stood."

The year after the joint UK-Libyan operations were mounted, Straw told MPs they must disbelieve allegations of UK involvement in rendition "unless we all start to believe in conspiracy theories and that the officials are lying, that I am lying, that behind this there is some kind of secret state which is in league with some dark forces in the United States".

Asked this week whether he still maintained that he was unaware of the Libyan rendition operations, and whether he knew which ministers Dearlove could be referring to, Straw said he had no further comment to make.

Blair also declined to make any further comment.

quote:

Rebel battalions unite in Libya

SIRTE, Libya – Each night near the embattled city of Sirte, battalion leaders meet in an abandoned beach palace. Here, in this elaborate former retreat of a Gaddafi spokesman, they discuss the next day's battle tactics.

These commanders from the city of Misrata are not trained military strategists. Some are teachers, others businessmen, computer experts, and laborers, but for 7 months they have led their civilian fighters in a war against a well equipped national army.

Like their leaders, almost none of the men under their command had fired a weapon before entering the battlefield. They had not entertained the idea of becoming soldiers, but at the outset of the revolution in February, the sight of Gaddafi's tanks rolling into their home town moved them to action. In defense of their homes and families, this motley untrained crew formed a military force that defeated Gaddafi's army, forcing them to retreat from Misrata after a bloody two month battle.

Verder ....
GlobalPost.com

quote:

Op dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 15:15 schreef Isetmyfriendsonfire het volgende:
Wow. Moet een beschouwing schrijven over: "Hoe heeft de parlementaire besluitvorming in Nederland plaatsgevonden met betrekking tot de vredesmissie in Libi� waarbij de VN en de NAVO samenwerken en hoe is de besluitvorming binnen de VN en de NAVO met betrekking tot de vredesmissie tot stand gekomen?"

Dacht: er zal vast wel veel info over staan op FOK! met goede bronnen enzulks... maar 112 topics? Doei...

quote:

Op dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 15:41 schreef zuiderbuur het volgende:

[..]

Misschien kan je dan inderdaad beter beginnen met http://en.wikipedia.org/w(...)011_Libyan_civil_war, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni(...)ncil_Resolution_1973 .

quote:

Op dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 15:15 schreef Isetmyfriendsonfire het volgende:
Wow. Moet een beschouwing schrijven over: "Hoe heeft de parlementaire besluitvorming in Nederland plaatsgevonden met betrekking tot de vredesmissie in Libi� waarbij de VN en de NAVO samenwerken en hoe is de besluitvorming binnen de VN en de NAVO met betrekking tot de vredesmissie tot stand gekomen?"