[FIFA 12] #1

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Op woensdag 8 juni 2011 16:32 schreef KentdeBruin het volgende:
Kan je dan ook Pre-ordereren bij bijv. GameMania voor die goldpacks?

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Op vrijdag 10 juni 2011 10:59 schreef Pijve.Stiemel het volgende:

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Op vrijdag 10 juni 2011 12:59 schreef emokid het volgende:

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Waarom ? Voetbal is daar net zo populair als hier, waarom mogen zij dan geen eigen commentaar optie hebben? Jij zal immers gewoon op Engels spelen, en er niets van merken.

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Op vrijdag 10 juni 2011 12:38 schreef StijnDa het volgende:
Halen ze 'Hij zet een tackle in' eruit?

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Op woensdag 22 juni 2011 09:29 schreef mash_ het volgende:
Wat ook zo irritant was (wat er wel snel uitgehaald werd) Is als je met Ajax speelde en enoh aan de bal kwam. Elke keer zeiden ze dan zijn voledige naam Eyong Tarkang Enoh

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Op woensdag 22 juni 2011 09:29 schreef mash_ het volgende:
Wat ook zo irritant was (wat er wel snel uitgehaald werd) Is als je met Ajax speelde en enoh aan de bal kwam. Elke keer zeiden ze dan zijn voledige naam Eyong Tarkang Enoh

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Op woensdag 22 juni 2011 11:04 schreef OmniRocket het volgende:

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Wie speelt er dan ook met Ajax...

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Op woensdag 22 juni 2011 12:02 schreef tostitomaatkaas het volgende:
Over dat 'Football club' hè... Stel dat ik dan inderdaad Vitesse kies (er vanuitgaande dat dit mogelijk is en het niet alleen om de grote Europese clubs gaat), dan kom je toch nooit in de top te staan in de ranglijsten? Dus dan kiest toch iedereen voor Barcelona, Real Madrid en Chelsea?

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Op woensdag 22 juni 2011 12:07 schreef StijnDa het volgende:

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We zullen het zien Maakt mij niet zo heel veel uit, ik kies gewoon voor PSV.
Is dat lekker trouwens een tosti met tomaat en kaas?

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Op woensdag 22 juni 2011 12:09 schreef Lindgren. het volgende:
Zeker halen.

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Op woensdag 22 juni 2011 12:10 schreef tostitomaatkaas het volgende:

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Goddelijk

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Eerste FIFA 11 halen hè

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Op woensdag 22 juni 2011 12:10 schreef tostitomaatkaas het volgende:

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Goddelijk

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Eerste FIFA 11 halen hè

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Op woensdag 8 juni 2011 16:52 schreef gniffie het volgende:
Dribbelen gaat dus de PES kant op, daar faalde FIFA altijd zo hard in

En geen kiddy graphics meer

Ook grappig dat PES het pass gevoel van FIFA dan weer probeert te benaderen

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Op zaterdag 25 juni 2011 21:42 schreef Pizzakoppo het volgende:

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Lol wat? Fifa 11 dribbelt echt heerlijk en nee, ik gebruik NOOIT trucjes.

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Op zaterdag 25 juni 2011 22:14 schreef gniffie het volgende:

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Je kan niet iemand puur op techniek passeren, mede doordat je tegenstander automatisch en perfect getimed zijn poot uitzet.

Ook is er geen gevoel van momentum.

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Op zaterdag 25 juni 2011 22:33 schreef emokid het volgende:

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Je lult echt compleet onzin, beter post je gewoon helemaal niet. 'Momentum' Dat je gewoon niet goed genoeg bent om te kunnen dribblen wil niet gelijk zeggen dat het slecht is uitgewerkt.

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Op zaterdag 25 juni 2011 22:14 schreef gniffie het volgende:

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Je kan niet iemand puur op techniek passeren, mede doordat je tegenstander automatisch en perfect getimed zijn poot uitzet.

Ook is er geen gevoel van momentum.

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Op zaterdag 25 juni 2011 22:56 schreef gniffie het volgende:

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jij bent ook niet serieus te nemen. Je kan enkel passeren met truukjes, niet door de verdediger op het verkeerde been te zetten. Dat jij dat niet ziet, kan ik niks aan doen

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Op zaterdag 25 juni 2011 22:56 schreef gniffie het volgende:

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jij bent ook niet serieus te nemen. Je kan enkel passeren met truukjes, niet door de verdediger op het verkeerde been te zetten. Dat jij dat niet ziet, kan ik niks aan doen

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 03:34 schreef emokid het volgende:
Dit gaat nog steeds over FIFA 11 ten opzichte van dat wat FIFA 12 moet worden. Je mag je best in de discussie mengen maar ga geen politieagent uithangen hier.

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 03:55 schreef tostitomaatkaas het volgende:

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Volgens mij ging het over wie wel en wie niet met 'truukjes' in FIFA 11 zijn tegenstander kan passeren. En in die discussie wil ik me niet eens mengen, dus ik hou het nog maar even bij politieagent uithangen

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 12:13 schreef Pizzakoppo het volgende:

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Nee, het ging over de vooruitgang van het passeren in FIFA 11 ten opzichte van FIFA 12. En aangezien ook jij niet kunt lezen zal ik het voorkauwen, de titel van dit topic is: "Fifa 12".

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 15:09 schreef tostitomaatkaas het volgende:

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Juist ja. Eigenlijk gaat het dus over de achteruitgang in FIFA 12? Duidelijk. Ga gerust verder met de discussie, ik bemoei me nergens meer mee..

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 22:12 schreef Qwertyuioppoiuytrewq het volgende:
Jammie

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 22:24 schreef invine het volgende:
is bovenste rij van je toetsenbord heen en terug...

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 20:56 schreef Tim86 het volgende:
Waarom zou je NL commentaar überhaupt aan zetten?

Rest vh commentaar ben ik ook al snel zat..vaak volume laag en muziek erbij hier.

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 20:11 schreef Captainp00face het volgende:
Ja, hij raakte hem gewoon niet goed genoeg Evert!

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Op maandag 27 juni 2011 02:16 schreef tostitomaatkaas het volgende:

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Op maandag 27 juni 2011 13:04 schreef Romanus het volgende:
Of dat ze zeggen dat de bal er via de lat inging, terwijl je hem toch echt via de grond erin schoof..

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Op vrijdag 1 juli 2011 15:26 schreef mash_ het volgende:

FIFA 12 | Pro Player Intelligence: Vision

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So for those who didn't know, on July the 11th a small group got to go to Guildford to playtest FIFA 12's career mode and gameplay. We had opportunity to play the PC, PS3, and 360 games, with almost any team in the game, and were given freedom to alter the assistance and gameplay options. The build we were playing with was a few weeks older than the builds we'd played before (we'd actually played Career mode at the same time as the last test but this was embargoed), so there is a fair amount of new information. I won't go over stuff which hasn't changed unless I feel it is particularly warranted, so my previous gameplay hands on is here: click here.

I'd like to once again thank EA for their hospitality and time. This time around David Rutter (line producer) and Ian Jarvis (PC) were present, so it gave us some opportunity to discuss things directly with people at the head of FIFA. Hopefully then, things we passed on will get listened to. In terms of getting feedback regarding gameplay and career mode passed on, I think we did pretty well. The ball is certainly in EA's court with that one and I feel that we represented this communities' feelings pretty well.

DISCLAIMER: Everything played is from an alpha build from mid June of FIFA 12. There is no certainty that things in the build I played will be in the demo and final build, though will try to estimate how I feel things will turn out in the end, as that is really what matters.

Gameplay

It's safe to say that I wasn't overwhelmed with the gameplay on display last time. Aside from a host of bugs and glitches, I didn't feel that some of the new additions quite hit home, but more importantly far too many things which were problematic in FIFA 11 were still present in all their glory. Unfortunately (and perhaps not surprisingly) not a huge amount has changed since then. Polish has generally improved considerably and there is still a long way to go with that.

Impact Engine
In June I left fearing somewhat that the Impact Engine could well release as a badly buggy addition - there were considerable problems with glitchy interactions, and occasionally shocking refereeing decisions. The improvement over the last couple of weeks (a lot of the glitchiness had been eradicated) renews my confidence and while there were still some odd refereeing decisions it looks well on track. The only major concern with this is that the off the ball collisions are still happening all over the place. The potential exploitability of this in OTP/Clubs is tremendous, so EA really need to come up with a solution to this fast. Ideally we need to move to a situation where players who are off the ball don't try to stand strong against eachother - and rather brush past eachother.

Flair Passing
Unfortunately, the biggest change between June and July was something I cannot praise at all. The new flair passing, activated by the left trigger and the various pass buttons, causes your player to do the same kind of skill type passes that used to happen with only players with the flair trait, in specific contexts, and with not a huge degree of predictability. The new flair passing on the other hand has almost no restrictions whatsoever. Any player, any context, immediate and ridiculous flair passes, with seemingly similar accuracy as normal passes. It sounds like this is caused by a bug - I suspect it's meant to be only for players with the correct traits, but even so, I really don't want to see half the Barcelona team doing this stuff for every pass, and that's what this will turn into. The error needs to be tuned up even for the best players. I should feel that a flair pass is risky, regardless of who it is with - the advantage is one of style, or, one of fooling your opponent, and that needs to be balanced. These are things which happen a few times a match with the creme de le creme - it must not be every pass.

It is not just that it seems to be completely unaffected by error, or the player doing it, there is also something deeply questionable by design. The left trigger is used for far too many things for it to be a modifier like this - for anyone trying to an intricate pass and move game, the left trigger is critical. It acts as the trap/turn button, so that as you get the ball you turn on it without moving, and the slow movement modifier. It's therefore very difficult to be letting go of LT as you pass when you don't want to do a flair pass (which would always be most of the time). I don't see the point of it. It seems to be put in there to please those who want to replicate the antics of Hjerpseth et al. but even if they radically reduce the ability for lesser players to do this, I feel the use of the left trigger button is really naive, especially given that for direct/through passes the RB button is spare. The left trigger button is also used to indicate you want to volley, and that seems fine from the small number of times I tried using it. It's really quite good to finally be able to remove the ambiguity of whether you want to volley or head.

AI, Passing, Movement
The problems I outlined in my original hands on with AI, passing, and movement mechanics remain, so make sure to read/reread as appropriate if interested in those areas. However, David Rutter did enlighten us somewhat in regards to AI. Firstly, we had ample opportunity to make our feelings about the AI's hyper-reaction and almost mind-reading like ability to David Rutter, so hopefully that will get listened to. If it isn't, however much career mode comes on this year, it will be let down entirely by the unrealistic, personalityless and dull AI which simply feels like it's not playing the same game to you.

In terms of the defensive and attacking team AI, David Rutter informed us that this is one of the absolute last things which they dial in, so hopefully it will be improved quite a lot before release. I still think it's a bit concerning that EA aren't doing this at an earlier stage - it's not like the AI has been a strong suit over the last few years (FIFA 12's AI currently is pretty much FIFA 11's afterall), but given that we have a pretty solid promise that there will be considerable change in this area, we just have to trust that and hope.

Vision AI is still more or less invisible, perhaps this is something which isn't properly tooled into the game at this stage, but as one of EA's bigger gameplay announcements it is fairly disappointing to not really sense this on the ball or off it. I am still not entirely sure whether Vision AI is actually intended to have an effect on the controlled player, but I'll hopefully find the answer out to this soon. Certainly, if it doesn't, I'd be fairly disapponted as at the very least I expected this to eradicate some of the 180 degree pass accuracy that still plagues FIFA. So far, I don't sense it, and, I'm not sure I'd notice Vision AI had I not been told to look for it.

Sliders
Sliders are indeed going to make their appearance in the game for FIFA 12, which will please a lot of people. On the face of it a lot of the things which I feel are somewhat wrong with FIFA do have sliders so you can fiddle with them. I suspect that this area of the game may see some quite big shakeups before release and now, as they do feel unfinished to a large extent. I do have some concerns though, first, as a matter of usability, it feels quite clumsy. There are a good 20 or so sliders, from error sliders and speed sliders to power bar charge speeds and acceleration, but none of these have any reference to them. You have a bar with maybe 50 settings on them, with the default stuck directly in the middle. The sliders at the moment have such considerable play in them, and it's difficult to guess what the effect of the sliders will be (with some it's not obvious which direction on the bar will correlate with an increase/decrease in the effect too). You can set each slider differently for the user and the AI - but unfortunately these are done on two seperate menu with no 'mirror' function, so it's awkward to replicate the settings for both you and the CPU.

Unfortunately at this moment, these sliders are not going to realise the dream of allowing one to fix FIFA or make it more realistic. The sliders do not give you enough control over enough areas to affect things in the way you'd want. For example, if I wanted to alter the passing error, I can only increase/decrease the amount of error. I have no way of dictating what is causing the error, or how that error is represented, and thus if I try to increase the directional error on the passes as I believe should happen, what it tends to mean is that passes become more lethargic and more bouncy long before you get the desired directional effect. There are some tweaks and touches you'd be able to improve, but it's minimal so far, and currently I feel that a lot more thought will have to be put into how these sliders work (or, a massive increase in the sliders available) if they are going to supply the potential for a simulation. I'm also slightly worried that there are a few different sliders right now which affect things like defensive AI (line depth, width, full back positioning and so on). These feel like they should not be gameplay sliders so much as tactical settings. At the moment, these will be things you can use to improve FIFA a smidgeon here and a smidgeon there. They will not open up the possibilities some have hoped for in terms of setting trading to perfect a simulation of the game.

Some of what these revealed was also quite worrying. The passing error slider only affects ground passes, and the shooting error slider does not affect finesse shots. This not only means that the two areas which are probably most wrong (lobbed passes and finesse shots) are not slider-alterable, but it perhaps also implies that the way error is handled on these works in a different way to how it is for normal shots/passes. As both finesse shots and long passes/lobbed through balls are far too accurate, that perhaps is reason. The simple question of why 180 degree clearances with the long pass button seem to land at the strikers feet every time may be answered very simply by that: there is (basically) no contextual error on long passes and chipped through balls.

Shooting
Ball physics are generally really good, though finesse shots are still the clear exception, and shooting has a good ping to it. The goalkeepers still having over-the-top reaction times means that far too many unstoppable shots get saved with far too much predictability - and I'd still suggest that AI move to reduce shooting accuracy (in particular for assisted/semi) while at the same time reducing goalkeeper reaction, to keep the goal scoring in balance while hopefully radically increasing the enjoyability and variety of goals (as well as having the nice side effect of balancing the assisted-semi-manual issue).

Heading feels good, but still deeply flawed by the fact that it seems that just one player on each team is allocated to go for the ball, and this could well mean that heading will be overpowered again (and I think crossing is still looking quite over-accurate, there are still remarkably few occasions of crosses going long, and they all too often seem to be perfectly aimed onto the attackers head. It still feels preordained, and out of your control. The winner of the header is usually dictated primarily by the luck of which defensive player is picked to head the ball. A striker surrounded by four defenders seems no less likely to win the header than one who is marked by just one, such is the problem with this one on one system.

Tactical Defending
The new defensive system could still do with a little work in terms of its intuitiveness, but I think people will grasp it within time. I hope that by FIFA 13 they will manage to remove the contain system too, but until they make considerable alterations to the way the CPU AI reactions work and to the player weight/momentum/inertia, it would probably be somewhat disastrous. The system thus far just doesn't quite feel natural, but it's a big step in the right direction, and worlds better than the pressure fest of FIFA 11, even if it is still a long way from being perfected. Frankly, I still think it could feel better if they swapped the buttons around a bit. Having the tackle button as X/A, contain as R1/RB, and secondary contain as B or O, would be an easy way of removing a part of the learning curve. It is a pity, but EA seem to have once again caved to the fear of a casual revolt by putting an assistance option to revert back to the old defending style. Online I suspect this will be forced off, like with pro passing assistance, but it's another sign of EA not having the confidence to push people to try something new which takes time to get used to on the grounds that it's better.

and finally
Tactical and strategic setup is still a real weakpoint, but is patently something which will have to be for FIFA 13 at the earliest - nothing has really changed in this area, so the sluggish and clumsy tactical side of FIFA, which should really be at the heart of the gameplay, still remains one of its weakest areas. Having said that, there is a small but nice addition here where, instead of swapping players on and off the bench by scrolling up and down endlessly, you can press triangle/Y on the player you want to swap out, and then you can press left/right (which brings up a compare) to show alternative players to put in that spot. Really neat, and definitely saves a lot of time.

At the end of my last hands on I listed a bulleted list of what I thought needed to be changed, though the game has improved since last test, the list remains identical to previously, with one big addition, and one small.

Priority Changes which need to be addressed

• Flair passing – so arcadey
• Defensive AI – simply gamebreaking
• Attacking AI – lacks of variety
• CPU AI Psychic Nature –severely damaging to single player
• Momentum/Inertia/Touch –key issue in FIFA’s lack of realism
• Passing – lethargic when it should be simple, still far too possible to make ridiculous passes

Other Issues

• On-the-ball movement penalty needs to be decreased
• Heading needs to be less of a 1 on 1 event
• Shooting accuracy needs to be decreased
• Goalkeeper reaction speeds need to be decreased
• Some work really needs to be done to long pass and finesse shot accuracy

Career Mode
We were able to play career mode and though no-one got hugely far into it, between the two days I've had time to play CM I feel quite positive about what I've seen. The consensus amongst the group was that, while FIFA 11's CM was severely below satisfactory, the new attempt is more than passable. It's not FIFA's strongest point, but it's certainly not its weakest anymore, and in fact I feel that the gameplay is probably letting CM down more than the mechanics specific to CM. I'm not a massive CM buff (as simply put the last few efforts have kept me from getting interested in it), so I won't go into too much depth.

For the first year in a while, I could actually envisage playing this years CM, at least, if the CPU AI gets to the point where I could enjoy playing against it long term. The new interface is mostly really smooth, but let down badly in some specific areas. The email screen is as boring as you could imagine and could really do with some optimisation, as far too much time is spent going in and out of messages and the email itself. The way news stories are represented though is excellent, and, assuming that the stories do not become repetitive, they should make sure that you feel part of a football world, rather than slogging through match after monotonous match. The commentary is at its absolute best here too - the new commentary team(s) seem to have quite a lot of lines which refer to how the career is going, and it benefits quite a lot from an increased attention to man management, as players will make their feelings known to you regarding your management and their position in the squad.

Form and morale return, and player stats have been made massively easier to interpret and compare as they are now colour coded. The new 'squad report' screen allows a much more in depth look at each player, all his attributes shown on one page, and on another page it details his current form, morale, and how he's doing on the pitch. It's a huge pity that this way of showing all stats on one page has not been replicated across the game, and most of the time you are looking at player stats, it is still a case of scrolling through many pages. FIFA is still a game which struggles when it comes to screen space management, and slow menus - a lot of space is still not used around the edge of the screen, and FIFA is in desperate need of a better way of quickly showing you a players stats. The hexagon/pentagon based representation which is used in PES, is something it could definitely do with, and this is something which has been passed on, so hopefully next year it shall be there.

Transfers and loans have been worked on, and even though there are some upsetting things missing (like player+cash deals, player swaps and so forth), as well as a surprising inability to negotiate with clubs looking to buy, and the ability to loan players who aren't listed is in the game.

The youth scouting function will be your way of getting in on new players, and the youth players you find will be randomly generated. You can select a region to scout in and specify what type of player you want to search for, and you can have up to three scouts at the same time. Every so often the scouts will come up with some suggestions of players you can pick, who can be as young as 14, who will then join your youth academy. You get an estimate of their overall, and over time you start getting estimates of their statistics, which hone in over time as you get the decision of whether to take them on or ditch them. There is no normal scouting system however (though there is still the scout picks on the transfer search), and hopefully this is something they'll look into for next year.

The biggest let down right now is certainly the sluggishness. The amount of time it takes to fiddle with your formation, to receive bids, to go through the days (especially in the transfer window) is frustrating, and simming games is as minimal as it could possibly be still.

But what FIFA 12 represents is a satisfactory manager mode. One which, in itself, is enjoyable, and lively enough to make it feel like more than a series of games against the CPU. When it comes to the enjoyability of CM, I feel that the CPU AI is more likely to be a problem than the mode itself, which is solidly made though there is still a lot further to go. It does give me a lot of confidence in next years version too - EA are on the right track and from a couple of conference calls with Humber and others on the CM team, I think FIFA 13 could have a very good career mode indeed. CM will not be the gem in FIFA 12's achievements, nor is it the quality of Football Manager, but it's getting there.

Conclusion
There is still time for FIFA 12 to go from being a game which is better than FIFA 11 to being a really great football sim. The career mode is coming along nicely, and even though there is simply no way it's going to be 'great' this year, it's looking that it may well manage to be 'good'. The gameplay problems are primarily AI based, so hopefully the AI will improve once they start working on it towards the end of the cycle. It's always difficult to estimate how much people will like something, but I'll give it a go, splitting it dependent on how people feel about FIFA 11:

Someone who is still enjoying FIFA 11
Will find that the game they like has improved, but not in any drastic way. It's still FIFA, but hopefully some of the frustrations have been removed, and hopefully the new defensive system will revolutionise the way people have to play in defence. The precision dribbling and impact engine will likely give you a lot of extra fun.

Someone who is finding FIFA 11 frustrating
Is likely to still find some of their frustrations in FIFA 12 - some have gone, but many remain. The newness of the title may give a few months of joy, but after that I suspect it will be back to feeling the frustration.

Someone who is teetering between FIFA11 & PES 2011
May well find that another year of slow change in key areas is a bit of a last straw

Someone who prefers PES 2011 to FIFA 11
Likely to not have their mind changed a huge amount. Still lacks in key areas

So that's it really - some may find this pretty depressing, but it's only an estimate from an eternal pessimist. Naturally I'll be happy to answer questions as best I can, on career mode, and gameplay, and I'll make sure to add anything I've forgotten to the thread if I remember. I'm not really into discussing boots and hair though, so you know.

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 17:37 schreef Doublepain het volgende:
Arabisch commentaar. Lijkt me wel lache een keertje.

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 18:00 schreef Saekerhett het volgende:

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Galamagalalgalalalaggaglalaglaglaglaglgalalala al qaeda gallaglaglagglagl robben.

Of zoiets

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 18:00 schreef Saekerhett het volgende:

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Galamagalalgalalalaggaglalaglaglaglaglgalalala al qaeda gallaglaglagglagl robben.

Of zoiets

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 19:40 schreef gniffie het volgende:
En na de wedstrijd wordt het verliezende team gestenigd op het veld en moeten hun fans hun eigen stad opblazen

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 22:31 schreef emokid het volgende:

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Hoe oud zijn jullie?

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Op vrijdag 15 juli 2011 22:06 schreef Erik1991 het volgende:
Ik hoop eigenlijk dat er in Fifa12 een functie komt waarin je jezelf kunt laten vallen. Niet eens zozeer om een schwalbe te maken , maar meer om te vallen wanneer je wordt aangetikt in het strafschopgebied. Je krijgt dan altijd alleen een strafschop als je speler valt en niet als hij net blijft staan op zo'n moment, terwijl je buiten het strafschopgebied in die vallen wel altijd een vrije trap mee krijgt of op zijn minst voordeel.