Oorlog in Libië #97. Meer bescherming gewenst.

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Op woensdag 13 april 2011 17:02 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Dat zijn journalisten.

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_{irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 18:02}
Libyan rebels urge US to reassert role in Nato action
Libya's rebels have urged the US military to reassert a stronger role in the Nato-led air campaign against Muammar Gadafy's regime.

The call came after Britain and France pressured other Nato members to contribute militarily to the organisation's operation in Libya.

Qatar's crown prince told international envoys at the "contact group" meeting in Doha it was time to help the uprising tip the scales in favour of the rebels.

The appeals reflected the urgent tone of the meetings among the UN secretary general and other top Western and Arab envoys as they gathered in Qatar's capital to discuss ways to end the Libyan crisis.

While peace efforts remain the top objective, there also appears to be a shift toward trying to boost the rebels' firepower to protect their territory from government offensives. One proposal noted by Italy - Libya's former colonial ruler - calls for allies to provide defensive weapons.

There is a divergence of opinions among the 28 members of the Nato alliance. Germany, Turkey and Poland opposed the operation in Libya and are not involved in the air campaign.

Italy has said its aircraft will not open fire, the Dutch are enforcing the no-fly zone but may not bomb ground targets, and non-Nato Swedish planes may only open fire in self-defence while patrolling the no-fly zone.

Qatar's crown prince said it was a "race against time" to give Col Gadafy's outgunned opponents the tools to fight.

"It is time to help the Libyan people defend themselves, and to defend the Libyan people," said Sheik Tamim Bin Hamad Al-Thani, whose nation is one of the few Arab states contributing to the Nato-led air campaign in Libya and helped the rebels sell oil under their control. "And what are the rebels except civilians who have taken up arms to defend themselves in a difficult situation and (who fight) an uneven battle?"

Rebel spokesman Mahmoud Shamman said the anti-Gadafy forces will not bend on their demands that any peace proposal require the Libyan leader Col Gadafy and his inner circle to leave the country. The rebel conditions for Col Gadafy's removal effectively killed a ceasefire bid by the African Union this week.

Mr Shammam also urged Nato to step up its air campaign to hit pro-Gadafy forces in efforts to protect civilians and appealed for a greater role by the United States, which turned over operations to Nato last month. "When the Americans were involved the mission was very active and it was more leaning toward protecting the civilians," he said. "Nato is very slow responding to these attacks on the civilians. We'd like to see more work toward protecting the civilians,"

His comments echoed calls by French foreign minister Alain Juppe and others after government forces shelled the rebel-held city of Misrata in western Libya.

The one-day conference that includes Britain's foreign secretary William Hague, US State Department envoy William J Burns and UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon.

It also was expected to be the first high-profile forum for Col Gadafy's former foreign minister, Moussa Koussa, who defected to Britain last month. But Mr Koussa was absent from the main discussions and rebel officials insisted he has no role in their movement.

Qatar is one of the few Arab countries providing warplanes to the Nato air campaign and has helped Libyan rebels sell oil to buy weapons and supplies.

An Italian foreign ministry spokesman said allies may consider providing "defensive weapons" and equipment to rebels. "The discussion of arms is certainly on the table," he said. "We are not talking about offensive arms ... Every country will decide. It is a political decision."

This afternoon, Nato said it hit munitions bunkers in an airstrike just outside the capital Tripoli. Nato said it conducted airstrikes yesterday on an ammunition depot in Sirte on Libya's central coast and destroyed 12 tanks near the western town of Zintan, about 120 kmsouthwest of Tripoli.

Libyan opposition spokesman Ali al-Issawi said that Col Gadafy's soldiers have killed about 10,000 people throughout the country and injured 30,000 others, with 7,000 of the injured facing life-threatening wounds.

He said an additional 20,000 people were missing and suspected of being in Col Gadafy's prisons.

There was no way to independently verify his claims, and the numbers are far higher than rights groups and foreign diplomats have estimated.

Qatar, meanwhile, is helping with a vital fuel link for the rebels. Qatar said it oversaw last week's sale of more than $100 million in crude oil from rebel-held areas, and has delivered four shipments of fuel to Benghazi.

Talks on Libya shift to Cairo tomorrow at the Arab League headquarters.

Mr Ban is expected to join others, including Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa, African Union commission chairman Jean Ping and the European Union's foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton. They are expected to discuss a Turkish peace initiative.

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AJE 6:15pm

So, a quick update on what happened in today's Libya Contact Group meeting in Doha.

Here are the highlights of the final communique:

Particpants agreed:

- A political solution is the only way to bring lasting peace to Libya and reaffirmed their strong commitment to the sovereignty, indpendence, territorial integrity and national unity of libya

- United in believing that Gaddafi's continued presence would treaten any resolution of the crisis

- Participants agreed the need to monitor any potential threat from "extremist elements" who could seek to take advantage of the situation in Libya

- Participants noted that gaddafi's regime was weakening as his followers left him

- Participants support eforts of the UN to help the Libyan people develop a political transition plan, consitutional and electoral processes.

- Participants agreed to continue to provide support to the opposition including material support and humanitarian aid.

- Participants agree that a temporary financial mechanism could provide method for the inc and intl community to manage revenue to assist with the short term financial requirement and structural need in libya

- Participants said approx 3.6million people could need humanitarian assistance.

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Op woensdag 13 april 2011 19:15 schreef MangoTree het volgende:

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Die kinderen bedoel ik natuurlijk.

SPOILER

Om spoilers te kunnen lezen moet je zijn ingelogd. Je moet je daarvoor eerst gratis Registreren. Ook kun je spoilers niet lezen als je een ban hebt.

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Op woensdag 13 april 2011 17:02 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

Dat zijn journalisten.

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Great Manmade River
Searching for oil beneath the sand the Libyans have instead discovered in 1953 huge fresh water reserves in various parts of the country, some of which are just 100 meters below the surface. The largest being the Kufra Basin, which has an estimated groundwater storage capacity of 20,000 cubic kilometres

There are a total of 4071 kilometres of pipelines in the project:

* 1600km of pipelines in Sarir/Sirt - Tazerbo-Benghazi system
* 1277km of pipelines in Hasouna-Jeffara system
* 190km of pipelines in Assdada-Ajdabiya system
* 383km of pipelines in Tazerbo-kufra system
* 621km of pipelines in Ghdames-Zuwarah system.

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Vrijdag, 25 maart 2011
Het Great Man-made River Project (GMRP) in Libië is het grootste ondergrondse netwerk van pijpleidingen en aquaducten ter wereld. Het bestaat uit 1.300 waterputten waarvan de meeste meer dan 500 meter diep zijn en voorziet onder andere de steden Tripoli, Benghazi en Sirt elke dag van vers water.

Muammar al-Gaddafi heeft het ooit omschreven als het achtste wereldwonder.

Het water bevindt zich al meer dan 40.000 jaar in een waterhoudende laag onder het zand. De mensen noemen het fossiel water.

De enorme waterreserves van Libië zijn voor de meeste mensen in het Westen vrijwel onbekend. Intervenieert het Westen in Libië voor olie? Wellicht. Maar de watervoorraad is veel zeldzamer en waardevoller. Verder.

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Libyan rebels receive boost of support from international community

Arab world and western ministers issued unanimous call for Gaddafi to step down, saying regime had 'lost all legitimacy'

Muammar Gaddafi's regime has "lost all legitimacy" and he must leave power to allow the Libyan people to determine their own future, the international community warned as it boosted support for opposition forces.

After three weeks of Nato-led air strikes, Arab and western ministers meeting in Qatar closed ranks to issue a first unanimous call for Gaddafi to step down, boasting that they were "united and firm in their resolve" about the outcome of the crisis – or, at least, more than they were at the London conference late last month.

But new signs emerged of disagreements over whether UN resolutions allowed the delivery of weapons to the Libyan rebels, with Qatar pushing hard on this highly sensitive issue.

William Hague, the foreign secretary, and Qatar's prime minister, Hamad bin Jassim, chaired a first session of the Libya "contact group" – comprising an unwieldy 21 countries and six international organisations – to explore ways out of the impasse between regime and opposition.

Britain's latest decision – to supply non-lethal body armour to the rebels – was due to be announced by David Cameron before a meeting with Nicolas Sarkozy in Paris. Under the plan 1,000 flak jackets from Ministry of Defence stores will be sent to opposition forces.

Hague, however, sounded ambiguous about whether weapons could legally be supplied. "We understand the resolutions to mean that the arms embargo applies to the whole of Libya," the foreign secretary said. "But in certain circumstances it is possible, consistent with those resolutions, to provide people with the means to defend the civilian population." Other countries, he added, "will interpret the resolution in their own way". Franco Frattini, Italy's foreign minister, went further. "Either we make it possible for these people to defend themselves or we withdraw our claims of support," he said.

Hamad admitted that there were differences of interpretation but added: "Qatar will make things available for the Libyan people to defend themselves."

But Belgium insisted it would not countenance any move to arm the rebels.

Plans for a "temporary financial mechanism" to channel cash to the Benghazi-based opposition were also discussed. Aid to eastern Libya would need to be consistent with UN sanctions, diplomats warned. But the ability to supply basic services would bolster the position and credibility of the Interim National Council. Disagreements surfaced over an Italian call to use frozen Libyan state assets to help the rebels.

Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general, highlighted the scale of the crisis when he told delegates that up to 3.6 million Libyans could need humanitarian assistance.

Hague said that Nato's "decisive action" had saved thousands of lives. But there were fresh signs of divisions over the military campaign, with the UK and France, which have conducted the bulk of the attack missions, pressing Italy and Belgium to take part in targeting Libyan forces. "We have sent more ground strike aircraft in order to protect civilians," Hague said. "We do look to other countries to do the same."

The Libyan opposition also urged Nato to do more. "When the Americans were involved the mission was very active and it leant more toward protecting civilians," said spokesman Mahmoud Shammam. Opposition officials were leaving later for the US to lobby the Obama administration.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Nato's secretary general, defended the alliance's record after its aircraft flew more than 2,000 sorties. But since its mandate was to protect civilians it had to be cautious. "We do our utmost to strike the right balance," Rasmussen said.

Allied strategy remains a combination of military pressure and hope that Gaddafi will suffer further damaging defections. "The aim is very clear," said France's foreign minister, Alain Juppé. "We must keep up a strong and robust military pressure to convince Gaddafi there is no way out."

International efforts on Libya shift to Cairo on Thursday when the UN's Ban joins the Arab League secretary general Amr Moussa, African Union commission chairman Jean Ping and the EU's foreign policy chief, Lady Ashton. That meeting is expected to discuss a Turkish "roadmap" for peace under which Gaddafi's forces would withdraw from besieged cities such as Misrata. But that would evidently require the agreement of the government in Tripoli.

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donderdag 14 april 2011 | 08:23
(Novum/AP) - AJDABIYA - De NAVO heeft woensdag luchtaanvallen uitgevoerd op militaire doelen van de Libische leider Moammar Gadhafi. Zo werd zeker een munitiebunker van Gadhafi's troepen aan de rand van de hoofdstad Tripoli gebombardeerd. Dit heeft een NAVO-zegsman verklaard.

Het Libische staatspersbureau JANA meldde dat ook doelen in Misrata, Sirte en Aziziyah door NAVO-gevechtstoestellen waren aangevallen. Volgens JANA trof de luchtaanval op doelen in Misrata een woonwijk. Een plaatselijke activist zei dat de bewoners van de wijk weken geleden hun huizen hadden verlaten toen troepen van Gadhafi de wijk binnenvielen. Verder.

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Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 19:28 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
Het is wat cru uitgedrukt ja.

Ter verduidelijking. Ik ben tegen een grondoffensief, en voor intensievere bombardementen. Op voorwaarde dat ze eerste de communicatie wat opkrikken.

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Op woensdag 13 april 2011 18:18 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

De coalitielanden moeten Gaddafi onder sterke militaire druk blijven zetten om hem tot aftreden te bewegen. Dat zei de Franse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Alain Juppe vanmiddag na overleg met zijn collega’s in Qatar.

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Op donderdag 14 april 2011 11:46 schreef Monidique het volgende:

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O, goh. En ik maar denken dat dit gewoon een humanitaire interventie was. Hm, wie had ooit -ooi!- kunnen bedenken dat zoiets escaleert. Goh. Hm. Tsjoh.

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Op donderdag 14 april 2011 12:20 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Dat is het toch? Het is alleen maar humaan om de wereld van Ghaddafi te verlossen.

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De opstandeling zei dat 'de NAVO niets heeft gedaan om de burgers te beschermen' tijdens de urenlange aanval van de Gadhafi-getrouwen.

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Top in Egypte over toekomst Libië levert weinig op
14/04/11, 14u52

dm UPDATE Vertegenwoordigers van de internationale gemeenschap zijn vandaag in de Egyptische hoofdstad Caïro bijeengekomen om te zoeken naar een politieke oplossing voor de burgeroorlog in Libië. De bijeenkomst in het kantoor van de Arabische Liga is afgelopen, maar heeft weinig opgeleverd
De deelnemers aan de bijeenkomst bleken het op twee punten met elkaar eens: in Libië moet een wapenstilstand komen en er moeten voorbereidingen worden getroffen om tot een politieke oplossing van het conflict te komen. Concrete afspraken werden echter niet gemaakt.

Grote zorgen
"We zijn hier omdat we ons grote zorgen maken over de crisis in Libië", zei secretaris-generaal Amr Moussa van de Arabische Liga aan het begin van de conferentie. "Er is daar een humanitaire ramp gaande."

Op de bijeenkomst in Caïro zijn naast de Arabische Liga onder anderen secretaris-generaal Ban Ki-moon van de VN, EU-buitenlandchef Catherine Ashton en vertegenwoordigers van de Afrikaanse Unie aanwezig.

Meningsverschillen
Moussa sprak nochtans de hoop uit dat de bijeenkomst net zo effectief zou zijn als de bijeenkomst van de internationale contactgroep voor Libië gisteren in de Qatarse hoofdstad Doha. De deelnemers, onder wie de Verenigde Staten, Groot-Brittannië en Frankrijk, riepen de Libische leider Mouammar Kadhafi gezamenlijk op te vertrekken.

De ontmoeting in Doha bracht verder echter vooral meningsverschillen aan het licht. Zo vinden Frankrijk en Groot-Brittannië dat te veel NAVO-bondgenoten zich beperken tot patrouilles ter controle van het vliegverbod boven Libië. Zij zouden graag zien dat meer landen hun luchtmacht inzetten om gronddoelen te bestoken, zoals de grondtroepen van kolonel Kaddafi die met zware wapens op burgers schieten. (anp/tvl)

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dm UPDATE "Libische rebellen kregen antitankraketten van Qatar"
Qatar heeft antitankraketten geleverd aan de rebellen in de stad Benghazi. Het gaat om Milan-raketten van Franse makelij. Dat zegt de Libische viceminister van Buitenlandse Zaken Khaled Kaaim (foto).
Qatar en Frankrijk maken deel uit van de internationale coalitie die de militaire interventie leidt in Libië.

De raketten zouden zijn geleverd aan opstandelingen in het rebellenbolwerk Benghazi, in het oosten van Libië. Volgens Kaim zijn ook twintig Qatarezen in de stad om de rebellen te trainen.

De Golfstaat Qatar steunt de rebellen openlijk. Het is een van de Arabische landen in de internationale coalitie die de Libische burgers vanuit de lucht probeert te beschermen tegen aanvallen van Kadhafi.

Qatar pleitte er gisteren nog voor om de Libische rebellen in staat te stellen zich te verdedigen. Het land deed dat op een internationale conferentie over Libië in de eigen hoofdstad Doha. Zo kan Libië "beslissen over zijn eigen toekomst", aldus kroonprins Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani.

Behalve Qatar spraken ook Italië, de Verenigde Staten en Groot-Brittannië zich uit voor bewapening van de opstandelingen. (afp/sam)

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12:37 Reuters In Misrata, the death toll of this mornings attack with Grad rockets has risen to 23, including 3 Egyptians. Dozens are wounded. Those killed are civilians and most of them are women and children, a spokesman told Reuters.

10:37 Reuters Gaddafis forces struck Misrata with dozens of Grad rockets on Thursday, killing eight people according to an opposition spokesman. They fired Grads at a residential area called Kasr Ahmad near the port this morning. They fired at least 80 rockets on that area. So far we have eight martyrs and 20 wounded, Abdelbasset Abu Mzereiq told Reuters by telephone..

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Op donderdag 14 april 2011 13:27 schreef Monidique het volgende:

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Humaner zou zijn om een staakt-het-vuren af te kondigen, maar dat willen de opstandelingen niet. Wat een wespennest, waar we ons in hebben begeven.

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Nato commander of Libya mission pleads for specialised fighter jets

Admiral James Stavridis says precision ground-attack jets would help minimise civilian casualties

The Nato commander in charge of the operation in Libya has issued a plea for more specialised fighter jets to join the operation if civilian casualties are to be minimised.

At a meeting of Nato foreign ministers in Berlin, Admiral James Stavridis asked for more "precision fighter ground-attack aircrafts" which could best identify land targets, said Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the Nato secretary general.

The US military has the world's most sophisticated warplanes, but Rasmussen insisted Stavridis had not singled out the Americans when making his plea. After its lead role in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US has taken a back seat in the Libyan operation, leaving Britain and France to lead the charge against Muammar Gaddafi.

The US ended strike missions earlier this month, depriving Nato of warplanes such as A-10 Warthogs and AC-130 gunships, which can be more accurate than higher-flying jet fighters for ground-attack missions.

Rasmussen said he was confident more member countries would "step up to the plate" but admitted he had "no specific pledges" following the first meeting of the two-day summit.

He said he had "heard statements which give me hope" that by the time the ministers fly home on Friday, more countries will have increased their commitment to the Libyan operation.

He dismissed any notions of a schism between Nato's 28 members following the decision of many countries, including Germany and Turkey, not to take part in the operation other than on a humanitarian level. In a briefing earlier, Spanish officials said they would not take part in any ground attack.

Rasmussen insisted the foreign ministers had a shared goal. "We are committed to provide all necessary resources and maximum operational flexibility within our mandate. A high operational tempo against legitimate targets will be maintained and we will exert this pressure for as long as necessary," he told a press conference at Germany's foreign ministry.

He said the group had agreed the mission would continue until it achieved its three objectives, which were:

• All attacks and threats of attack against civilians and civilian-populated areas have ended.

• The regime has verifiably withdrawn to bases all military forces, including snipers, mercenaries and other paramilitary forces, including from all populated areas they have forcibly entered, occupied or besieged, throughout all of Libya, including Ajdabiya, Brega, Jadu, al-Jebal al-Gharbiya, Kikla, Misrata, Nalut, Ras Lanuf, Yefrin, Zawiya, Zintan and Zuara.

• The regime must permit immediate, full, safe and unhindered humanitarian access to all the people in Libya in need of assistance.

In the three weeks of the mission, Nato planes have flown over Libya 2,000 times, including 900 attack sorties, said Rasmussen, who reiterated that Nato believed that "a transparent political solution" was "the only way to bring an end to the crisis and build lasting peace in Libya and a better future for the Libyan people".

The alliance agrees that Gaddafi must be ousted, but it has previously been at odds on how to proceed. One proposal from Italy – Libya's former colonial ruler – calls for the western powers to provide defensive weapons to rebels. In Berlin, France's foreign minister, Alain Juppé, said he did not share the Italian view.

France has said Nato is not doing enough, and was pushing other countries at the meeting to work on "more robust, more efficient, more rapid actions", according to the French foreign ministry spokesman Bernard Valero in Paris.

The rebels have been urging the US military to reassert a stronger role in the Nato-led air campaign. The Obama administration, however, has insisted the US will stick to its plan of remaining in a supporting role, and the Pentagon noted that Americans have flown 35% of all air missions over the past 10 days.

The US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, appealed to the other Nato foreign ministers for unity. "As our mission continues, maintaining our resolve and unity only grows more important," she said. "Gaddafi is testing our determination."

Nato members are "sharing the same goal, which is to see the end of the Gaddafi regime in Libya," Clinton said. "We must also intensify our political, diplomatic and economic mission to pressure and isolate Gaddafi and bring about his departure."

The world must "deepen our engagement with and increase our support for" the Libyan opposition, she added.

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Op donderdag 14 april 2011 17:32 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Smerige leugenaar. Ghaddafie heeft 2 x een staakt het vuren afgekondigd waar hij zich zelf niet aan hield. Het is een totaal onbetrouwbare psychopaat en jij durft daar de oppositie de schuld van te geven.

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Op donderdag 14 april 2011 17:52 schreef sunny16947 het volgende:
Ik denk vast te simpel, maar met zoveel landen met militaire overmacht moet het toch mogelijk zijn om in 1 groot luchtoffensief dat legertje van G uit te schakelen? Daar spaar je uiteindelijk burgers mee. Dit slepende in balans houden maakt alleen maar meer slachtoffers.