Oorlog in Libi� #96. Met collateral damage.

gpdMiddleEast
@oaeie satelliettelefoon, 7 usd per mb
6 hours ago

FMCNL FMC the Netherlands
@gpdMiddleEast Kijk ook eens in de lucht, 4 prima kisten uit Leeuwarden die helpen!
22 hours ago

gpdMiddleEast
@FMCNL Heb je gelijk in, ik kijk omhoog! trouwens, bombarderen nederlandse toestellen gronddoelen??? daar zitten ze hier erg op te wachten..
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Die hash daar moet erg goed zijn.

Frankrijk krijgt de smaak te pakken: 'Nederlanders moeten Ivoorkust verlaten'

Propaganda. Ik moest lachen.

quote:

Op maandag 4 april 2011 20:51 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:

[..]

Je hebt het over de Homo Sapiens?

Ik vond op een expat-forum een topic over de blokkering van YouTube. Het is dus ook te omzeilen via verschillende 'bekende' opties. Maar wat zal de upload-tijd wel niet zijn voor een gemiddeld filmpje? Snel internet is er niet.

Deze post viel me op;

quote:

26-12-2010 - Sleepy Hollow
It is blocked on political grounds. and the LTT general manager was fired from his position because he couldn't block youtube permanently.

Zo gaat het daar.

Heeft iemand enig idee, waarom de US zich nu terug trekt uit Libie, zit daar iets achter?

Qadafi's burnt palace in Benghazi
http://www.facebook.com/a(...)8650025293&aid=34862

enkele pics:

quote:

Op maandag 4 april 2011 21:11 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
Ik weet het niet hoor met dat filmpje.

Dat je via de lijnen in Libi� niet op Youtube kan, neemt nog niet weg dat de mensen daar geen filmpjes online kunnen zetten. Een enkele email met bijlage naar het buitenland en dat hele probleem is zo te omzeilen.

Op maandag 4 april 2011 21:14 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
En er zal ongetwijfeld gespuis tussen al twitters en facebook-accounts zitten van buitenlandse inlichtingendiensten, maar je gaat mij niet wijsmaken dat alles opzet is alleen omdat Youtube een block heeft in Libi�.

De wederzijdse propagandaoorlog is begonnen.

Lees nog eens de tekst die de libyafeb17.com admin bij dit filmpje postte �n de commentaren erna.
http://www.libyafeb17.com(...)n-is-a-fake-facepalm
Dit is de bekende StaatsTV propaganda. De russische media nemen die bijna ��n op ��n over, want anti-VS.

Het staats-internet is niet overal afgesneden en ook daar weet men omwegen te vinden.
Dan is er nog inbellen via telefoon of smartphone.

quote:

Op maandag 4 april 2011 22:31 schreef Mr_Memory het volgende:
Heeft iemand enig idee, waarom de US zich nu terug trekt uit Libie, zit daar iets achter?

-Ze hebben er minder belangen dan Europa
-Militaire slagkracht is elders nodig
-Bevolking staat niet echt achter de missie
-Missie kost handen vol geld

quote:

Op maandag 4 april 2011 23:54 schreef Kandijfijn het volgende:

[..]

-Ze hebben er minder belangen dan Europa
-Militaire slagkracht is elders nodig
-Bevolking staat niet echt achter de missie
-Missie kost handen vol geld

Daarnaast is de CIA ook al actief sinds kort (officieel dan), wat waarschijnlijk wat effectiever is dan het land bestoken met raketten van een x miljoen dollar.

quote:

Video [translated]: Major General AbdelFattah Younis speaks to fighters on the front line

libyafeb17.com - First of all, speaking to you is not a loss ( Arabic phrase used to elevate the one being spoken being to)

First of all, you have honoured us, you have honoured your women before its men. Be sure that each of you is defending his country, its soil and his family and city.. [unclear] those who are despicable, those who are killing the prisoners, raping women, stealing homes and destroying farms for no other reason but to satiate their fierce desire for revenge. But what the youth of Libya have demonstrated is that they are real men. In the past we used to say who is next to me? is it my cousin? is it another relative? Im sure none of you are asking these questions. What is important now is that they are a fighter and Libyan. We do not care if he is an Obadi, Barasi or from any other time. This is the biggest gain for Libya.

They say: Harm may bring about much good. This harm has brought us together, has made us one united hand, has removed any grudges or rancor from our hearts, has cleaned the negatives from our hearts, and now we are one man. The real man is the one can stand in the battlefield. But especially for the free youth who are fighting independently, this next stage requires organisation. Please, when the armed forces tell you to stop here, then stop. You are dear to us and we do not want to lose you to the enemies bullets that is present. Each of you has value to us. The army is here to protect you and help you perform your role. It wants to make room for you to fight. But fighting must be organised so that we do not go back to Ajdabiya and Benghazi.

It is from the biggest shames for a person to the turn head back east with his car the moment a shell or a bomb explodes. Now that you have an organised army supporting you, this is your chance to seek vengeance from these dogs. And I envy you, you have rifles and fighting with your souls, and God-willing I am with you, thank you. Long live free Libya and God is Greater, God is Greater, God is Greater.

Chants in the end:

God is Greater!
The blood of the martyrs, will not go in vain!
Raise your head high, you are a free Libyan!

quote:

Op maandag 4 april 2011 23:54 schreef Kandijfijn het volgende:

[..]

-Ze hebben er minder belangen dan Europa
-Militaire slagkracht is elders nodig
-Bevolking staat niet echt achter de missie
-Missie kost handen vol geld

Ze willen de Kazafi-clan aan de macht houden.

Mooie toespraak van Younis.

Ik heb een artikel van de New York Times gevonden over voorstel van de zoons Gaddafi.

quote:

2 Qaddafi Sons Are Said to Offer Plan to Push Father Out

[ .... ]

The idea also touches on longstanding differences among his sons. While Seif and Saadi have leaned toward Western-style economic and political openings, Colonel Qaddafis sons Khamis and Mutuassim are considered hard-liners. Khamis leads a fearsome militia focused on repressing internal unrest.

And Mutuassim, a national security adviser who also commands his own militia, has been considered a rival to Seif in the competition to succeed their father. But Saadi, who has drifted through careers as a professional soccer player, a military officer and a businessman, firmly backs the plan, an associate said.

[ .... ]

Lees hier het hele artikel, erg informatief.
Ook pagina 2 is de moeite waard.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 april 2011 00:56 schreef zoefbust het volgende:
Hier zie je dat Gaddafi nog Scuds heeft
[ afbeelding ]

Of had.
Maar waar zie je dat?
_{bron enzo}

Ziet er uit alsof hij wel naar Parijs, Londen of verder kan vliegen.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 april 2011 01:19 schreef zoefbust het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]

Ze is gestruikeld toen ze verstoppertje aan het spelen was.

Wat headlines van maandag 4 april

11:57 AFP Italy has decided to recognise the interim national council in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi as its only legitimate interlocutor in Libya, Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said on Monday.

16:25 Al Jazeera Arabic the oil fields of Msala and Sireer has been attacked and completely destroyed by Gaddafis forces today. The oil field is situated 400km south of Ajdabiya.
-
In Brega, revolutionaries have pushed forward causing Gaddafis forces to retreat west beyond the industrial area. There is a possibility that they may have even retreated to Bishr (20km west) or Al Uqaylah (40km west) seeing as their tank shells and rockets are falling further and further west as well.

17:49 ShababLibya tweets that there is a large demonstration in Benghazi, asking for more help regarding Zintan and Misrata, for Western Libya and against Saif taking over.

19:51 AFP A resident of a town in the Jabal al-Gharbi area, about 230km southwest of the capital, tells AFP that Gaddafi forces fired Grad rockets today at the town of Nalut, and that they have taken the town of Kekla.

22:20 Al Manara Media Eyewitness from Tripoli: Majority of Schools are closed. Heavy presence of security on the streets with gunfire heard every night.

11:30pm Libyan state television has shown footage of Muammar Gaddafi saluting supporters at his Bab Al Aziziyah compound in Tripoli, Reuters reports.

==aanvulling==
Uitgebreide Reuters samenvatting hier

[ Bericht 5% gewijzigd door svann op 05-04-2011 03:43:31 ]

Hier hadden ze een week of zeven geleden mee moeten komen.
Na het nog steeds ontkende en voort durende bloedvergieten natuurlijk niet meer acceptabel.

quote:

Reuters

Libya says ready for change, Gaddafi must stay

* Govt offers "any changes" but says Gaddafi must stay
* Denies attacks on civilians

TRIPOLI, April 4 (Reuters) - Libya is ready to hold elections and reform its political system but only its own people can decide whether leader Muammar Gaddafi can stay at the helm, a government spokesman said on Monday.

"We could have any political system, any changes: constitution, election, anything, but the leader has to lead this forward. This is our belief," said Mussa Ibrahim, when asked about the content of negotiations with the West.

"Who are you to decide what Libyans should do? Why don't they (Western powers) say: we need the Libyan people to decide whether the Libyan leader should stay or go, to decide whether to have a different political system or not.

"No one can come to Libya and say: you have to lose your leader or your system or your regime. Who are you to stay that?"

He said no conditions could be imposed on Libya from abroad, even though the country was ready to discuss proposals aimed at bringing more democracy, transparency, press freedom and anti-corruption laws.

"Don't decide our future from abroad, give us a proposal for change from within," he said.

"The leader has no official position to step down from. ... He has a symbolic significance for the Libyan people. How Libya is governed is a different matter. What kind of political system is implemented in the country is a different matter. This is a question we can talk about."

He accused some Western leaders of trying to topple Gaddafi out of personal interest or for economic gain.

"We know there are some politicians in power in the West who just have a personal problem with the leader," he said. "Others have economic interests which they think would be served better if the government collapsed."

He denied allegations that government forces were involved in any attacks against civilians, adding that Libya regretted Italy's decision to back the rebels.

"We are not attacking any civilians, I assure you. We never in this crisis attacked any civilians. ... I will not stand and speak for a government that kills civilians. Who do you think we are, monsters?" (Reporting by Maria Golovnina; editing by Philippa Fletcher)

We kunnen verkiezingen houden, maar Khadaffi blijft wel de baas

Laat iemand alsjeblieft die hele kliek zo'n precisiebom op hun hoofden vallen!

(zinsstructuur klopt niet, ik weet het, maar het is nog vroeg, jullie weten wat ik bedoel)

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 april 2011 03:25 schreef svann het volgende:
Hier hadden ze een week of zeven geleden mee moeten komen.
Na het nog steeds ontkende en voort durende bloedvergieten natuurlijk niet meer acceptabel.

[..]

Een week of 7 geleden ook niet.

Filmpje van het gebrabbel.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 april 2011 03:25 schreef svann het volgende:
Hier hadden ze een week of zeven geleden mee moeten komen.
Na het nog steeds ontkende en voort durende bloedvergieten natuurlijk niet meer acceptabel.

[..]

Tuurlijk om vervolgens tig duizenden familieleden achter te laten met zonen of dochters die nu dood zijn door het regime. Dit gaat het niet meer worden. De enige optie die openstaat aftreden, aangehouden of gedood worden.

Met kort video interview met Saif ( daar is 'ie weer ) op de site.

Libya: Colonel Muammar Gaddafi 'must remain in power'

The Libyan government has said it is open to political reform, but Muammar Gaddafi must stay in power to avoid a Somalia- or Iraq-style power vacuum.

Spokesman Moussa Ibrahim described Colonel Gaddafi as a "unifying figure", and insisted his forces only targeted armed rebels, not civilians.

Libyan state TV has showed video of Col Gaddafi rallying supporters in Tripoli.

Meanwhile, his son told the BBC that Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa had not betrayed Libya by leaving for the UK.

Saif al-Islam Gaddafi told the BBC's world affairs editor John Simpson that Mr Koussa had travelled to Britain for health reasons and was being pressured into making allegations about Libya's government in an effort to secure immunity from prosecution.

Mr Gaddafi said Moussa Koussa was allowed to leave Libya, and denied that he knew incriminating details about the Lockerbie bombing or other atrocities.

"The British and the Americans they know about Lockerbie, they know everything about Lockerbie so there are no secrets anymore," Mr Gaddafi said.

"Come on. The British government say this: you have no immunity unless you co-operate. He [Moussa Koussa] is sick, he is sick and old so if you put it this way, no immunity of course... [he] will come out with the funny stories."

On the ground in Libya, the Associated Press reports that rebel fighters have resumed their efforts to retake the eastern oil hub of Brega, pushing halfway into the town. They have won and lost control of the town several times in recent weeks.

The oil-rich country's vital coastal belt is effectively split between rebel forces in the east and government loyalists in Tripoli and the west, nearly two months after the start of a revolt against Col Gaddafi's rule.

A tanker carrying Libyan oil is expected to leave rebel-held territory on Tuesday, the first shipment of oil since the uprising began.
'Elections, referenda, anything'

Speaking in Tripoli, government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said Col Gaddafi was "a safety valve for the country to remain together".

"The leader provides Libyan tribes and Libyan population of a unifying figure, as a unifying figure," he said.

"Many Libyans, many Libyans want him to lead the process forward because they are scared if he is not there for any reason we will have what happened in Iraq, we will have what happened in Somalia, we will have what happened in Afghanistan."

Libya, Mr Ibrahim said, was open to political reform - "elections, referenda, anything" - but "the leader has to lead this forward".

Mr Ibrahim said it was not for the West to tell Libya "you have to lose your leader or your system or your regime".

Denying government attacks on civilians, he challenged the outside world to investigate any alleged crimes.

"We are fighting armed militias," he said. "You are not a civilian if you take up arms."

Late on Monday Libyan state TV showed what appeared to be live footage of Col Gaddafi saluting supporters from a jeep outside his fortified compound at Bab al-Aziziya in Tripoli.
'Corpses in the street'

As fighting continued in eastern Libya, evacuees from the besieged city of Misrata, in the west, have accused pro-Gaddafi forces of atrocities against civilians.

On Sunday, a Turkish humanitarian ship carrying more than 250 injured people from Misrata, the only major city in western Libya still under rebel control, arrived in the rebel capital Benghazi.

Speaking from Tunisia, other evacuees told Reuters that Gaddafi forces there had been "massacring" civilians.

"You have to visit Misrata to see the massacre by Gaddafi," said Omar Boubaker, a 40-year-old engineer with a bullet wound to the leg, brought to the Tunisian port of Sfax by a French aid group.

"Corpses are in the street. Hospitals are overflowing."