MO Midden-Oosten
Bespreek hier de actuele situatie omtrent het Midden-Oosten.
Update (20:42)
Het ziet er steeds meer naar uit dat de toekomstige coalitie de NAVO-structuur zal gebruiken, maar ook landen buiten de alliantie zal bevatten. (BBC)
Het ziet er steeds meer naar uit dat de toekomstige coalitie de NAVO-structuur zal gebruiken, maar ook landen buiten de alliantie zal bevatten. (BBC)
Jammer, ik voelde meer voor de Franse optie, een gelegenheidscoalitie met arabische partners.quote:Op dinsdag 22 maart 2011 20:48 schreef horned_reaper het volgende:
Update (20:42)
Het ziet er steeds meer naar uit dat de toekomstige coalitie de NAVO-structuur zal gebruiken, maar ook landen buiten de alliantie zal bevatten. (BBC)
Als de opstandelingen niet worden bewapend, heb je nog steeds een professioneel grondleger dat tot genocide bereid is tegenover gewone burgers.quote:Op dinsdag 22 maart 2011 20:43 schreef horned_reaper het volgende:
De NAVO heeft ook absoluut niet als doelstelling om de protestanten te laten bewapenen!
Het is op geen enkele manier de bedoeling dat de opstandelingen bewapend worden en terugvechten tegen kadaffi.... de doelstelling van de no-fly zone en het wapenembargo is dat Kadaffi zijn geschut wordt uitgeschakeld en niet meer opnieuw kan worden bevoorraad.
Alleen worden ze nu niet meer vanuit vliegtuigen beschoten, maar met zware wapens vanaf de grond.
VS defensie woordvoerder vertelde dat 1 piloot door anti's was gevonden en de ander door coalitie mensen. Die tweede groep was er dan wel erg snel bij.
Ander nieuws:
BBC
More signs that the coalition is widening. Romania is to send a frigate to the Mediterranean to take part in a Nato arms embargo of Libya, President Traian Basescu is quoted as saying by AFP news agency.
Ander nieuws:
BBC
More signs that the coalition is widening. Romania is to send a frigate to the Mediterranean to take part in a Nato arms embargo of Libya, President Traian Basescu is quoted as saying by AFP news agency.
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
Gelegenheidscoalitie is indd het meest snelle en effectieve, maar je moet er wel vraagtekens bij zetten over wat voor band de landen onderling voelen voor elkaar, en of zij toch niet van mening gaan verschillen. En ook wie je welke rol moet toewijzen.
Ik kan alleen wat Nederlandse bronnen vinden over dat luchtgevecht:
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/35(...)ibisch-toestel.dhtml
http://www.depers.nl/buit(...)cht-met-Libiers.html
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/35(...)ibisch-toestel.dhtml
http://www.depers.nl/buit(...)cht-met-Libiers.html
Die lezen dus meequote:Op dinsdag 22 maart 2011 20:55 schreef remlof het volgende:
Ik kan alleen wat Nederlandse bronnen vinden over dat luchtgevecht:
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/35(...)ibisch-toestel.dhtml
http://www.depers.nl/buit(...)cht-met-Libiers.html
Daar dacht ik ook aan, maar hoe kan je de opstandelingen bewapenen onder een wapenembargo?quote:
[..]
Als de opstandelingen niet worden bewapend, heb je nog steeds een professioneel grondleger dat tot genocide bereid is tegenover gewone burgers.
Alleen worden ze nu niet meer vanuit vliegtuigen beschoten, maar met zware wapens vanaf de grond.
Met de NAVO is het weer het boze westen tegen de arabieren, dat moet je niet willen.quote:
Gelegenheidscoalitie is indd het meest snelle en effectieve, maar je moet er wel vraagtekens bij zetten over wat voor band de landen onderling voelen voor elkaar, en of zij toch niet van mening gaan verschillen. En ook wie je welke rol moet toewijzen.
Bovendien is de NAVO z'n houdbaarheidsdatum al 20 jaar voorbij.
Door dat wapenembargo te interpreteren als "We mogen geen wapens leveren aan de staat 'Libyan Arab Jamahiriya'" ipv "We mogen geen wapens Libië binnen brengen.quote:
[..]
Daar dacht ik ook aan, maar hoe kan je de opstandelingen bewapenen onder een wapenembargo?
Of per ongeluk een paar kratten met wapens uit een vliegtuig laten vallen.
Op maandag 29 april 2013 16:56 schreef Moira. het volgende:
Ug, je bent af en toe een (leuke) mafkees, maar ook een wijs man.
Ug, je bent af en toe een (leuke) mafkees, maar ook een wijs man.
An American F-15E crashed near Benghazi, Libya overnight, with both pilots successfully ejecting. Babak Dehghanpisheh reports on the condition of one of the pilots and how he was treated by rebels.
The American F-15E went down in eastern Libya after midnight Tuesday about 25 miles east of Benghazi, the de-facto rebel capital. Both pilots ejected before the plane crashed and the Pentagon has confirmed that they are safe. But what exactly downed the plane and the details of the rescue still remain murky.
One of the pilots was picked up by rebel forces near the site of the crash and brought by car to the Fadeel Hotel in Benghazi around 2 a.m., according to a handful of people who said they met with the pilot. Its unclear why the opposition forces brought the pilot to that particular hotel. Dina Omar, 30, an Egyptian cardiologist who has been volunteering at the rebel frontlines was in the Internet café at the hotel at the time. She heard from the hotel staff that a pilot had been brought in and went to see him in a large suite in the hotel. She saw a man wearing a light brown pilot suit in his early 30s lying down on a couch. He was feeling insecure and unsafe, she said. He did not talk much.
According to an NPR report, American Marines, using an Osprey aircraft, recovered one of the airmen. T
he other crewmember was recovered by rebel forces and is now in U.S. hands, according to the Associated Press.
Not long after the pilots arrival, rebel officials brought him a bouquet of flowers, they said.
Omar and two fellow Egyptian medical volunteers offered him coffee, which he refused, they said. He did allow the doctors to check out his right leg, which had a slight contusion. Omar, who speaks fluent English, also offered him some Panadol, which he initially refused, until he saw her take a couple of pills from the same pack. He was concerned that the medical staff were Gaddafi sympathizers and Omar tried to convince him of their real work by showing a phone video she had taken of civilian victims from Saturdays military assault on Benghazi. The doctors stayed with him until he relaxed and opened up a bit, they said. After two hours, he started to speak and started to smile, said Omar. The pilot reportedly confirmed he was American and said he thought the plane had gone down for technical reasons. But he refused to give much personal information or confirm whether there was another pilot with him, the sources said.
Not long after the pilots arrival, rebel officials brought him a bouquet of flowers, they said. He was a very nice guy, said Ibrahim Ismail, 42, a Libyan businessman who said he met the pilot at the hotel. He came to free the Libyan people. As Ismail spoke, a fellow businessman said, I thought we agreed not talk about this, indicating that rebel officials were trying to keep the pilots stay in Benghazi under wraps. Even though the pilot had a radio with a large aerial, he wanted help communicating with his family. Omar, the doctor, took him up to the hotels Internet café and tried to help him arrange a Skype chat which didnt go through. Someone eventually brought the pilot a Thuraya satellite phone which he used to call his family. The witnesses at the hotel say the pilot left in a civilian car in the early morning hours.
The presence of the downed pilot in Benghazi shows just how much the American military is involved in the current military campaign in Libya. And the fights not over. Around 2 a.m. Tuesday, government troops tried to make a concerted push into Benghazi from roughly 20 miles south, near a small town called Suluq. The military vehicles that were being used in that attack were hit by the coalition troops, according to Essam Gheriani, an opposition spokesman. Gheriani could not confirm whether the American jet that was downed had taken part in an attack on Gaddafis forces.
This afternoon, firetrucks and ambulances raced down the highway from Benghazi toward Ajdabiya, a town roughly 100 miles away where the rebels are still facing stiff resistance from Gaddafis forces. All along the highway are the gutted shells of the military vehicles that coalition forces blasted on Saturday night and early Sunday. Tank turrets sit askew with barrels in the sand. GRAD rocket launchers have been tossed on their side. One armored personnel carrier was cleaved nearly in half. In one open field where several vehicles had been clustered, the smell of burning oil and decaying bodies mixed in the dusty air. The burned out vehicles have become a tourist attraction of sorts for the residents of Benghazi who came out in the hundreds this afternoon to gawk and take pictures. Many brought their children. We came to see these forces that were going to be used against us, said Khadija Gezeri, 60, who was ululating as she walked through the wreckage, leaning on her cane. We thank God and pray for victory.
Near the frontlines, a group of fighters clustered, getting ready to go back into battle. Sanad Hassy, an unemployed 22 year old, had come from a town some 200 miles away to join the fight. Despite the coalition support, he and his colleagues ran through a long list of equipment they would like to receive, ranging from artillery to communication equipment and night-vision goggles. For the moment, they said they would press on with the AK-47s they had among them. We are hopeful, he said. Were fighting for our freedom against a tyrant.
Babak Dehghanpisheh is Newsweek's Beirut Bureau Chief. He's been covering the Middle East for Newsweek since 2001.
The American F-15E went down in eastern Libya after midnight Tuesday about 25 miles east of Benghazi, the de-facto rebel capital. Both pilots ejected before the plane crashed and the Pentagon has confirmed that they are safe. But what exactly downed the plane and the details of the rescue still remain murky.
One of the pilots was picked up by rebel forces near the site of the crash and brought by car to the Fadeel Hotel in Benghazi around 2 a.m., according to a handful of people who said they met with the pilot. Its unclear why the opposition forces brought the pilot to that particular hotel. Dina Omar, 30, an Egyptian cardiologist who has been volunteering at the rebel frontlines was in the Internet café at the hotel at the time. She heard from the hotel staff that a pilot had been brought in and went to see him in a large suite in the hotel. She saw a man wearing a light brown pilot suit in his early 30s lying down on a couch. He was feeling insecure and unsafe, she said. He did not talk much.
According to an NPR report, American Marines, using an Osprey aircraft, recovered one of the airmen. T
he other crewmember was recovered by rebel forces and is now in U.S. hands, according to the Associated Press.
Not long after the pilots arrival, rebel officials brought him a bouquet of flowers, they said.
Omar and two fellow Egyptian medical volunteers offered him coffee, which he refused, they said. He did allow the doctors to check out his right leg, which had a slight contusion. Omar, who speaks fluent English, also offered him some Panadol, which he initially refused, until he saw her take a couple of pills from the same pack. He was concerned that the medical staff were Gaddafi sympathizers and Omar tried to convince him of their real work by showing a phone video she had taken of civilian victims from Saturdays military assault on Benghazi. The doctors stayed with him until he relaxed and opened up a bit, they said. After two hours, he started to speak and started to smile, said Omar. The pilot reportedly confirmed he was American and said he thought the plane had gone down for technical reasons. But he refused to give much personal information or confirm whether there was another pilot with him, the sources said.
Not long after the pilots arrival, rebel officials brought him a bouquet of flowers, they said. He was a very nice guy, said Ibrahim Ismail, 42, a Libyan businessman who said he met the pilot at the hotel. He came to free the Libyan people. As Ismail spoke, a fellow businessman said, I thought we agreed not talk about this, indicating that rebel officials were trying to keep the pilots stay in Benghazi under wraps. Even though the pilot had a radio with a large aerial, he wanted help communicating with his family. Omar, the doctor, took him up to the hotels Internet café and tried to help him arrange a Skype chat which didnt go through. Someone eventually brought the pilot a Thuraya satellite phone which he used to call his family. The witnesses at the hotel say the pilot left in a civilian car in the early morning hours.
The presence of the downed pilot in Benghazi shows just how much the American military is involved in the current military campaign in Libya. And the fights not over. Around 2 a.m. Tuesday, government troops tried to make a concerted push into Benghazi from roughly 20 miles south, near a small town called Suluq. The military vehicles that were being used in that attack were hit by the coalition troops, according to Essam Gheriani, an opposition spokesman. Gheriani could not confirm whether the American jet that was downed had taken part in an attack on Gaddafis forces.
This afternoon, firetrucks and ambulances raced down the highway from Benghazi toward Ajdabiya, a town roughly 100 miles away where the rebels are still facing stiff resistance from Gaddafis forces. All along the highway are the gutted shells of the military vehicles that coalition forces blasted on Saturday night and early Sunday. Tank turrets sit askew with barrels in the sand. GRAD rocket launchers have been tossed on their side. One armored personnel carrier was cleaved nearly in half. In one open field where several vehicles had been clustered, the smell of burning oil and decaying bodies mixed in the dusty air. The burned out vehicles have become a tourist attraction of sorts for the residents of Benghazi who came out in the hundreds this afternoon to gawk and take pictures. Many brought their children. We came to see these forces that were going to be used against us, said Khadija Gezeri, 60, who was ululating as she walked through the wreckage, leaning on her cane. We thank God and pray for victory.
Near the frontlines, a group of fighters clustered, getting ready to go back into battle. Sanad Hassy, an unemployed 22 year old, had come from a town some 200 miles away to join the fight. Despite the coalition support, he and his colleagues ran through a long list of equipment they would like to receive, ranging from artillery to communication equipment and night-vision goggles. For the moment, they said they would press on with the AK-47s they had among them. We are hopeful, he said. Were fighting for our freedom against a tyrant.
Babak Dehghanpisheh is Newsweek's Beirut Bureau Chief. He's been covering the Middle East for Newsweek since 2001.
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
NOS.nl Libië live blog.quote:Qatar is het eerste Arabische land dat vliegtuigen inzet voor deelname aan de operatie in Libië. Volgens de Amerikanen kunnen de toestellen komend weekeinde al worden ingezet. De Verenigde Arabische Emiraten sturen 24 gevechtsvliegtuigen naar het gebied. Wanneer die op Sicilië aankomen, is nog niet duidelijk.
de 24 gevechtsvliegtuigen zijn Mirages en/of F-16's.
het heeft 79 f-16's
(F-16E
F-16F)
en 68 mirages
(2000EAD
2000RAD
2000DAD
2000-9
2000-9D)
Door als doelstelling te hebben dat de burgerbevolking tenminste in staat moet worden gesteld zichzelf te verdedigen als er geen buitenlandse troepen op Libische bodem mogen komen.quote:
Daar dacht ik ook aan, maar hoe kan je de opstandelingen bewapenen onder een wapenembargo?
Trouwens, hoe 'libisch' zijn al die huurlingen.
Vooral als zo goed als wereldwijd is geconstateerd dat het Gaddafi regime zijn legitimiteit nu wel verloren heeft.
Wow, 24 vliegtuigen! Ik had veel minder verwacht van zulke kleine staten. Way to go UAE & Qatar.quote:
[..]
NOS.nl Libië live blog.
de 24 gevechtsvliegtuigen zijn Mirages en/of F-16's.
het heeft 79 f-16's
(F-16E
F-16F)
en 68 mirages
(2000EAD
2000RAD
2000DAD
2000-9
2000-9D)
Zoiets zou sowieso onder de radar gebeuren. Net zoals Egypte het op dit moment doet.quote:
[..]
Daar dacht ik ook aan, maar hoe kan je de opstandelingen bewapenen onder een wapenembargo?
Update (20:50)
Na afloop van de extra ministerraad volgt een persconferentie die live te zien is op Politiek24. De NOS verwacht dat de vergadering een half uur à drie kwartier duurt. De persconferentie is na 21.00 uur.
Na afloop van de extra ministerraad volgt een persconferentie die live te zien is op Politiek24. De NOS verwacht dat de vergadering een half uur à drie kwartier duurt. De persconferentie is na 21.00 uur.
*pol24 opzetquote:
Update (20:50)
Na afloop van de extra ministerraad volgt een persconferentie die live te zien is op Politiek24. De NOS verwacht dat de vergadering een half uur à drie kwartier duurt. De persconferentie is na 21.00 uur.
Two Qatar Air Force fighter jets and a cargo jet flew to a Greek air base on the island of Crete Tuesday in the first sign of military operations by Qatar so far to help enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, officials said.
A Qatar Emiri Air Force Dassault Mirage 2000-5EDA fighter jet prepares for takeoff from Larnaca international airport, Cyprus, Tuesday, March 22, 2011. Two Qatar Air Force fighter jets and a C-17 Globemaster cargo aircraft were heading to Crete Tuesday in the first sign of military operations by Qatar so far to help enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, officials said. The planes made an unscheduled stop at the island's Larnaca airport, and government spokesman Stefanos Stefanou said in a statement that the aircraft would depart after refueling. (AP Photo/Christos Thedorides)
The Mirage 2000 jets and the C-17 cargo aircraft made an unscheduled stop at Cyprus' Larnaca airport, and a Cyprus civil aviation official told the Associated Press that they left after refueling en route to Souda base in Crete. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
High winds had forced the three planes to land at Larnaca for refueling, said another who spoke on condition of anonymity because of department policy.
Greece has granted permission for six Mirage fighters and two transport planes to operate from the base, said Lt. Col. Constantinos Bouzos, a Greek military spokesman. He did not know when all the planes would arrive on Crete.
Cypriot authorities initially refused the request by Qatar's planes to land, but later granted permission after the pilots declared a fuel emergency per international regulations, Cyprus government spokesman Stefanos Stefanou said.
RAF Akrotiri, one of two British military bases on Cyprus' southern coast, is hosting VC-10, RAF E3D and Sentinel surveillance aircraft which also provide refueling capability to help enforce the U.N.-sanctioned no-fly zone.
Cyprus President Dimitris Christofias has said the government does not condone any military action in Libya and is not taking part. He also expressed disapproval to the British government over use of the base for military action, but acknowledged Britain does not need permission from Cyprus.
A Qatar Emiri Air Force Dassault Mirage 2000-5EDA fighter jet prepares for takeoff from Larnaca international airport, Cyprus, Tuesday, March 22, 2011. Two Qatar Air Force fighter jets and a C-17 Globemaster cargo aircraft were heading to Crete Tuesday in the first sign of military operations by Qatar so far to help enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, officials said. The planes made an unscheduled stop at the island's Larnaca airport, and government spokesman Stefanos Stefanou said in a statement that the aircraft would depart after refueling. (AP Photo/Christos Thedorides)
The Mirage 2000 jets and the C-17 cargo aircraft made an unscheduled stop at Cyprus' Larnaca airport, and a Cyprus civil aviation official told the Associated Press that they left after refueling en route to Souda base in Crete. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
High winds had forced the three planes to land at Larnaca for refueling, said another who spoke on condition of anonymity because of department policy.
Greece has granted permission for six Mirage fighters and two transport planes to operate from the base, said Lt. Col. Constantinos Bouzos, a Greek military spokesman. He did not know when all the planes would arrive on Crete.
Cypriot authorities initially refused the request by Qatar's planes to land, but later granted permission after the pilots declared a fuel emergency per international regulations, Cyprus government spokesman Stefanos Stefanou said.
RAF Akrotiri, one of two British military bases on Cyprus' southern coast, is hosting VC-10, RAF E3D and Sentinel surveillance aircraft which also provide refueling capability to help enforce the U.N.-sanctioned no-fly zone.
Cyprus President Dimitris Christofias has said the government does not condone any military action in Libya and is not taking part. He also expressed disapproval to the British government over use of the base for military action, but acknowledged Britain does not need permission from Cyprus.
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
Libya_United Libya_Awake_United
Tripoli : If you watched the funeral of victims of the Allies air-strkes, its all made up
Libyans never put flowers on their graves , nor they do step over graves to dance, chant of do whatever
Tripoli : If you watched the funeral of victims of the Allies air-strkes, its all made up
Libyans never put flowers on their graves , nor they do step over graves to dance, chant of do whatever
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
4 Mistakes We Cannot Make Again When We Sanction a Military Intervention
• First, do not wait until its almost too late.
• Second, do not embrace confused and imprecise mission objectives.
• Third, do not diffuse political authority, and therefore ultimate responsibility.
• Fourth, do not bet on partners who may not have the military capability to achieve the objectives.
http://www.foxnews.com/op(...)litary-intervention/
• First, do not wait until its almost too late.
• Second, do not embrace confused and imprecise mission objectives.
• Third, do not diffuse political authority, and therefore ultimate responsibility.
• Fourth, do not bet on partners who may not have the military capability to achieve the objectives.
http://www.foxnews.com/op(...)litary-intervention/
Foxnewsquote:
4 Mistakes We Cannot Make Again When We Sanction a Military Intervention
• First, do not wait until its almost too late.
• Second, do not embrace confused and imprecise mission objectives.
• Third, do not diffuse political authority, and therefore ultimate responsibility.
• Fourth, do not bet on partners who may not have the military capability to achieve the objectives.
http://www.foxnews.com/op(...)litary-intervention/
nog erger dan telegraaf
Laat me met rust!
En daarom die tweede optie van een NAVO structuur met wat Arabische landen ertussenin gegooid, om onze 'slechte reputatie' geen verdere schade te berokkenen. Geen gelegenheidscoalitie, maar ook geen pure NAVO, eerder een soort 'mix'.quote:Op dinsdag 22 maart 2011 20:56 schreef remlof het volgende:
[..]
Met de NAVO is het weer het boze westen tegen de arabieren, dat moet je niet willen.
Bovendien is de NAVO z'n houdbaarheidsdatum al 20 jaar voorbij.
The best of both worlds
? kom net thuis...
*LOL bij die laatste zin, maar ja, ik ben volledig voor, alleen schreef die andere gast dat 'alle wapens over de grens' verboden zijn, en dat zie ik niet zitten. Ik denk dat je de opstandelingen desnoods moet kunnen bewapenen.quote:
[..]
Door dat wapenembargo te interpreteren als "We mogen geen wapens leveren aan de staat 'Libyan Arab Jamahiriya'" ipv "We mogen geen wapens Libië binnen brengen.
Of per ongeluk een paar kratten met wapens uit een vliegtuig laten vallen.
