Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) #7

What isWrong With Joran Confession?

By Dale Netherton
February 08, 2008
Once again we see an explanation emerge of what happened to Natalee Holloway. Joran Van Der Sloot is caught on tape describing what happened to Natalee and what he did to dispose of her body. The first question one must ask is, " What is wrong with this "confession?" There are certainly a lot of discrepancies regarding Joran´s description of his and Natalee´s actions.

First of all if he experienced her "shaking" and dying would his first reaction to be to introduce a disposing of her body and implicate a friend? Ask yourself if you were in this situation would you think you had killed her and must dispose of the body or would you try to get help to exonerate yourself? By his own admission he said he was not sure she was dead. Would you then try to get a friend to dump her at sea? Why would Joran keep bringing up the scenario that Natalee is dead? These questions are not answered by the constant decree that Natalee is dead. Let me offer an explanation of these convoluted "confessions´" and interviews and why they have never led anywhere.

No one would deliberately implicate themselves in a murder if there was a way to avoid any suspicion. Calling for help would not have implicated Joran had he simply used his cell phone to get her to a hospital. Since he notified his friend to dispose of the body ( so he says ) he could have just as easily have had his friend ( a to date not identified friend ) to get her to a hospital. And if you were a friend of Joran would you immediately respond to his request to dump a body at sea? What if you got caught? What kind of friend calls up and asks you to do that? And who has that kind of friend when he is a teenager? So what would have motivated him to decide she was dead ( which he says he was not sure of )? This confession was a pseudo confession that is considered okay for him to utter as it doesn´t implicate anyone except an unnamed "friend". Considered okay by whom? By those who know what happened to Natalee and don´t want to be implicated. This still smacks of political corruption that now even Greta admits may be possible although she only mentioned police corruption. Look back to my article , " An Evaded Natalee Holloway Theory " for a full discussion of what fits and what doesn´t.

The motivation for the disappearance of Natalee is the weakest link in the other theories advocated so far. First they speculated Joran raped and killed her. Why? Then they said it was one of the Kalpoe brothers that was guilty. Why? Then it was an overdose of drugs and alcohol. What proof was there for that? When I pushed Bill O´Reilly for his proof that Natalee had been drugged and dumped at sea he came up with that was what the FBI believed. That was his reliable source he alluded to on his program. So now the FBI has another story to look into and Bill O´Reilly´s "solid source´ evidently had nothing of the kind that they could substantiate if the current Joran "confession" has any validity.

Joran comes across as a callous indifferent participant but that indifference could very well be a venting of frustration with the trap he has found himself in. He probably does know what happened to Natalee but the convoluted stories he tells indicates there is something he knows that he cannot and will not speak of. Suppose for a minute he was involved in a human trafficking scheme that was run by some Aruba officials? Suppose he was told that he could say anything he wanted but it had not better lead to any implication of the the said officials. This would make it okay for him to offer confessions and interviews that were red herrings. After two incarcerations Joran has emerged and either held an interview or offered a "confession". Could those have been coached?


The problem is we still have nothing but theories. The evidence of a dead body does not exist. Which leads us to examine the supposed disposal Joran alludes to. How many friends do you suppose Joran has that were ready on a moments notice to have a boat ready to go to sea and a willingness to be implicated in a murder scheme? For an unnamed friend you would think such a friend would be a real buddy that had been seen by someone ( like his parents ) and could be easily identified. The mentioning of the unnamed friend was a typical liars slip up when there has to be something to explain the tale that is being told. Surely his friends Deepok and Satish would have known of "Daubny"? And why was this shaking episode introduced? What about the drugged and limp passed out Natalee?

This case will go nowhere with this "confession". No body will be found and if Natalee was taken and placed into a white slave ring this body search will concentrate all the efforts on a person who may very well not be dead. Because someone disappears doesn´t mean they are dead as so much of the media keeps wanting to advance that theory. The circumstances of her disappearance indicate a motive of abduction instead of murder. There is no motive for her murder and this is why the ploy to make it look like she died accidently is introduced. Joran may not have known his "confession" was being taped, but you can be sure if there was a threat on his life for telling the truth he would be guarded in his statements whoever and wherever he spoke. The more I think about the "confession " I expect it was a result of the incarceration where new approaches were cooked up and fed to Joran to distract guilt implication from the authorities. How else could such lameness be explained?

Suddenly now the Kapok brothers are not of much interest. How could these two who Greta was convinced were so heavily involved now be no longer part of the plot? And who no longer drove Joran from the beach? And why now would he come up with a story that exonerated him as killing her , implicate a friend who risked his life and future for him and posit a dumping in the ocean? Some of you may recall there supposedly was a radar scanning the waters around Aruba and no boats were seen on the radar that night. Another authority "fact".

Without a body I am astounded there are so many to pronounce Natalee dead. Without any evidence that her life was taken and only the known fact that she disappeared, why is there such reluctance to cling to the possibility that she may have been abducted. There is no media exploring this option to any degree and certainly it is not publicized. But let some known liar say she is dead and the media falls all over itself trying to impart that it was right all along.

This case is like a having a hound dog trained on possums looking for a coon. There is no coherent theory that is convincing offered by the media. The proof of that is the way the media jumps on any possible lead that Natalee´s body may be found or someone says they killed her. It doesn´t make any difference how long Natalee has been missing. She is still only missing. Some people are missing for long periods of time due to circumstances, Being held as a captive is one very good reason. The tragedy is that if Natalee is alive they are not looking for her but her body. People talk of having hope yet what we are seeing in this case is the abandonment of hope. and one can only ask....why?

Nice story, but rather unbelievable. There are no reasons to believe Joran has contacts with higher Aruba persons, busy with selling nice women. No way I think. His meeting with N. that evening was "by accident" I would say and she was already drunk and maybe had used some drugs that day. She was sleepy, all three boys told that, and the passage in which he, joran tells about the shaking seems to me rather true, really as he saw it. And even then you need to explain how and where they drove that night and to whom, without being seen. Same problem.
What interests me is her fellow-students, they all keep there mouths shut, accept a few stupid interviews about reasonable drinking-behavior etc. This puzzels me.

quote:

Op dinsdag 19 februari 2008 16:43 schreef observer777 het volgende:

*snip*

3. Police drove Joran and Paulus to the Bubali police station while Deepak drove his own vehicle.

4. Deepak, Joran and Paulus discussed the events of the preceding hours with Dennis Jacobs and/or Jan van der Straaten at the Bubali police station and attempted to get stories straight in preparation for the afternoon interrogations.

*snip*

7. Joran and Paulus are then dropped off at home.

*snip*

According to PVDS' PV Joran went to school that morning and Paulus went to work where Jan vd Straten visited him at about 10 am (where there any witnesses at Paulus' workplace?) to ask whether he could pick up Joran from school in order for him to make a statement at the police office. It doesn't say what time they arrived but my guess is it was well before 12.30 pm.

FROM PVDS' PV ABOUT 31ST OF MAY 2005:

A man named WILLIAMS, who later turned out to be an FBI-agent, had taken Joran aside to talk to him. Joran also briefly spoke with the mother of the missing girl. After that the heated atmosphere seemed to have cooled down somewhat. The police officers said they would file a report about what had occurred. It was morning already when Joran and myself were dropped off by the police at home. We did not go to bed anymore. Joran went to school feeling very sleepy. I called the “headmaster” of Joran's school and told him that in the nightly hours a lot of people had been at the house about a missing girl. I asked him if he could be somewhat understanding of the fact that Joran would be sleepy.

At approximately 10.00 hours I was visited at my workplace by Jan van der STRATEN. Jan van der STRATEN requested that I go and pick up my son from school so that he could be interviewed by the police. I asked Jan van der STRATEN if I could remain present when Joran was going to make his statement. He did not see a problem with that. I had a chat with the Headmaster and Joran. I then immediately drove to the police station at Bubali. Joran made a statement while I was present. I had asked to be present and the person who took the statement (KELLY) had no objection to this. While in the presence of JACOBS I did make a remark, that I couldn't understand why the girl had pushed him away, if he had first been kissing with her. I also said that he should have escorted the girl into the hotel if she was that intoxicated. We then went to get something to eat and I talked to him about what happened. Then we drove home.

[quote]Op dinsdag 19 februari 2008 17:46 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

No way did Natalee use drugs on her own that day or night.
There are witnesses of N. buying and using drugs. Probably more kids o that school

Plus she slept all day with her friends.
She was on the beach that day at 10.00 am, with alcoholdrink.

[i]Being unconscious in someones car just minutes after getting in is hardly being sleepy,plus they continue to lie about everything and are the last 3 along with PVDS to ever see Natalee alive again. But you are more interested in fellow MB students that have nothing to do with anything..lol
PVDS???? Why pointing at him without knowing. Why saying that the fellowstudents have nothing to do with it, they were not allowed to speak and it was rather impossible for the Aruba to investigate them and to talk with them. Why, when you want the truth keeping them away. It's puzzling me and I find very strange, no matter what you say about that. What do they have to cover up???
And about Patrick: they want to talk to him as a witness, and you can take one temporarily in custody if someone do not want to speak. I find it nice when I heard they want to speak to him. And Patrick says, I come on my own, because I WANT TO SPEAK, no problem, they do not see him as involved.

[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Rosite op 19-02-2008 18:02:02 ]

Waar ik gewoon een beetje ziek van wordt in dit forum, is dat Natalee bij leven al een engel zou zijn geweest en als Rosite begint over haar vrienden, dat die nooit verhoord zijn, dan is dat dus ook weer belachelijk volgens "onze" Canadees.
Want nee, over hun mag geen verkeerd woord gezegd worden. Ik vind het best dat ie hier komt posten hoor,maar dat denigrerende kan ik heel goed zonder. Want hoeveel posters heeft ie al verteld, dat ze het heeeeeeeelemaal verkeerd zien?

Sorry hoor, er is hier iemand (Observer bedoel ik dus) op dit forum bezig leugens te verspreiden over wat er gebeurt is, ik heb hier geen zin meer in. Het is gewoon niet waar wat hij zegt. Amerikaanse indoctrinatie, laten ze in hun eigen klote-land de forums volkalken, maar niet hier.

Lees dit maar eens :

http://www.riehlworldview(...)_hollowa_7.html#more

en sowieso onderstaande site, waar het vandaan komt, een goede, eerlijke Amerikaanse journalist die gadeslaat wat er gebeurt in zijn land waar het Natalee betreft, en, vooral, wat de media daar mee doet. Helemaal naar beneden scrollen en daar beginnen:
http://www.riehlworldview(...)_holloway/index.html

als er dan dus twee kampen zijn en als beide kampen vinden dat het onderzoek niet goed is verlopen dan is dat een overeenkomst en kunnen die allemaal oproepen tot een parlementaire enquete naar justitie op aruba.

op aruba heeft de regeringspartij een absolute meerderheid dus daar zal dat voorlopig niet gebeuren.
of nederland kan aruba onder druk zetten om daar justitie eens door te lichten.

de scheiding der machten wordt daar wel geschonden.
http://www.nrc.nl/binnenl(...)g_gescheiden_machten

de nederlandse minister van justitie heeft wel aanwijzingsbevoegdheden via de koninkrijksminister maar ik weet niet precies wat dat inhoud.
http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/aruba/car20080219_eigen-PG

Probleem is dat je niet alleen met de justitie op Aruba hebt te maken. Ja, een onderzoek daarnaar zou best goed zijn (waar het deze zaak betreft dan). Maar de FBI heeft zich er mee bemoeit en vooral de Holloways. Moeder Beth bepaalde dat de kids van die school niet of nauwelijks gehoord mochten worden enz. En zij schijnt behoorlijk macht te hebben. Zij heeft in het onderzoek ook een heel kwalijke rol, als je alles wat er gebeurd is vanaf "de vermissing" zo leest. Gedeeltelijk te snappen, maar voor een heel groot deel ook echt niet hoor. Zij wilde ook niet dat er naar voren kwam dat dochterlief natuurlijk ook behoorlijk gedronken had en waarschijnlijk drugs gebruikt had enz. Dus een fatsoenlijk onderzoek naar: waar is N. allemaal geweest die week op Aruba en met wie is ze omgegaan enz. was niet mogelijk.

quote:

Op dinsdag 19 februari 2008 18:40 schreef observer777 het volgende:
@Rosite

It is you who is lying and you dont know anything about this case. The MB kids were questioned by the ALE and the FBI. They have zero to do with this case and everyone knows it but its clear you have a agenda pointing the finger at them and spreading wrong information,when it is clear they have told the truth. The 3 that were last with her have lied,lied again and continue to lie.

@lookinforyou

If you are looking for wrong information and lies about really happened then you are clearly in the wrong thread.

I just want the truth.I have no agenda, I am on the hand of nobody and the one spreading lies is you and this is the last time I give a reaction on what you are writing.

quote:

Op dinsdag 19 februari 2008 18:47 schreef Rosite het volgende:

[..]

I just want the truth.I have no agenda, I am on the hand of nobody and the one spreading lies is you and this is the last time I give a reaction on what you are writing.

Doe normaal man, die gast is tenminste echt bezig de waarheid te zoeken. Jij zit alleen maar lomp te speculeren

@ Rosite,

Heb jij wel eens gelezen dat de schoolvrienden vertelden dat Nathalee drugs gebruikte? Nee toch?
Ja misschien is er de laatste avond iets in haar drankje gegooid, dat weten we dus niet.
Heb je ook het verhaal gelezen van die taxichauffeur die zogenaamd had gehoord tijdens een taxirit dat Nathalee in de rehab zat vlak voordat ze klaar was met haar school? Wanneer moet ze dan in de rehab hebben gezeten? Tijdens haar school?
En dan wel succesvol examen doen?

Wie presteert dat? Heb je gelezen wat ze naast haar school allemaal deed? Dan kun je toch geen drugs gebruiken? En al helemaal niet in een rehab zitten.

Ik denk dat het allemaal leugens zijn om Nathalee zwart te maken.

Die halve zool gaat maar door. Goed, ik ga gewoon in het Nederlands verder, want heb geen eens zin in dat Engels, tenzij met zinnige mensen, maar dat is hij niet. Ik hoop 1 ding en dat is dat ze toch het verhaal rond krijgen over wat er is gebeurd. Wie en wat en waar dan ook. Ze zijn nog bezig op Aruba, dus laten we hopen.

quote:

Op dinsdag 19 februari 2008 18:58 schreef kinkajoe het volgende:
@ Rosite,

Heb jij wel eens gelezen dat de schoolvrienden vertelden dat Nathalee drugs gebruikte? Nee toch?
Ja misschien is er de laatste avond iets in haar drankje gegooid, dat weten we dus niet.
Heb je ook het verhaal gelezen van die taxichauffeur die zogenaamd had gehoord tijdens een taxirit dat Nathalee in de rehab zat vlak voordat ze klaar was met haar school? Wanneer moet ze dan in de rehab hebben gezeten? Tijdens haar school?
En dan wel succesvol examen doen?

Wie presteert dat? Heb je gelezen wat ze naast haar school allemaal deed? Dan kun je toch geen drugs gebruiken? En al helemaal niet in een rehab zitten.

Ik denk dat het allemaal leugens zijn om Nathalee zwart te maken.

Weet je, die lui hebben een heerlijke vakantieweek gehad waarin de remmen los zijn gegaan, niets mis mee en er zijn veel getuigenissen dat ze ontzettend veel dronken en mogelijk hebben ze ook drugs gebruikt in die week, waarom niet, en waarom N. niet, dat kan toch? Dat is toch niet zo raar? Misschien wel raar als ze het niet gedaan zouden hebben. Maar de kans dat zij onwel geworden is door de combinatie: weinig slaap, heel veel drinken, de warmte, misschien veel te weinig ander vocht en dan uitdroging, mogelijk drugsgebruik, alles bij elkaar kan toch hebben geleid tot het onwel worden, eventueel in een coma raken, waar Joran bij was? En waarom niet de waarheid van de medestudenten over die week eerlijk op tafel? Want dat ligt gewoon niet eerlijk op tafel, zie mijn postings met artikelen die daar over gaan. Ik ga dus niet zomaar er vanuit dat Joran haar drugs gegeven zou hebben. Ik weet het niet, het kan, maar het kan ook dat dat niet zo is, en heel veel tekenen wijzen daar ook op vind ik.

quote:

Op dinsdag 19 februari 2008 18:40 schreef observer777 het volgende:
@Rosite

It is you who is lying and you dont know anything about this case. The MB kids were questioned by the ALE and the FBI. They have zero to do with this case and everyone knows it but its clear you have a agenda pointing the finger at them and spreading wrong information,when it is clear they have told the truth. The 3 that were last with her have lied,lied again and continue to lie.

@lookinforyou

If you are looking for wrong information and lies about really happened then you are clearly in the wrong thread.

No I am not looking for wrong information. It's just the way you react. You know everything and ooooh how stupid we are.
I just want the truth and you are not the one who can tell the truth, because you don't know the facts either.
You're on a dutch forum and you can respect us.

iedereen zijn eigen visie dat schiet op of natalee nu een engel was of niet, ze verdient het niet om vermist te zijn.maar als joran en het hele rotzooi nou gewoon eerlijk waren geweest hadden ze niet hoeven te liegen en hun verhalen steeds hoeven aan te passen. Daar spreek toch een mate van schuld uit. maar het ergste is paul van der sloot door zijn doen het bijstaan van deepak en satisch en later joran zijn alle leugens in juridische vorm gegoten, en waarom zo wat als deepak en satisch in paniek waren geraakt bij het aflegen van hun statement( zonder ander bewijs nog geen zaak !!, zoals nu. nee de waarheid mocht niet verteld worden en nou steeds niet. het niet opzettelijk doden , geeft niet zoveel straf. minder dan 3 jaar nu al lijden. de de jongens deepak en satisch hebben het maar getroeven met zo'n goede helper als paul van der sloot. ik denk dat deze jongens weten dat de waarheid spreken hun dood zal betekenen door hogere machten. leve ARUBA

hier op internet komen we er toch niet uit.

de media zit er zo vaak naast.
hoofdpersoon is een pathologische leugenaar. dat is eigenlijk het enige wat zeker is.
zoveel tegenstrijdige informatie zwerft rond.
minister van justitie op aruba bemoeit zich teveel met het onderzoek.

ik verwacht dat peter r. in een volgende uitzending wel de corruptie/cover-up zal belichten.
ook de tweede kamer zal wel wat vragen hebben volgende maand.

quote:

Op dinsdag 19 februari 2008 18:56 schreef -jos- het volgende:

[..]

Doe normaal man, die gast is tenminste echt bezig de waarheid te zoeken. Jij zit alleen maar lomp te speculeren

Vreemd, ik geef heel veel sites waarin alle informatie te vinden is, zoveel mogelijk de objectieve sites die alles hebben bijgehouden, dus je opmerking slaat nergens op. Blijkbaar heb je niets te melden hier behalve iemand kwetsen. Nou ja, doe maar wat je niet laten kunt zou ik zeggen.

quote:

Op dinsdag 19 februari 2008 19:12 schreef Caesu het volgende:
hier op internet komen we er toch niet uit.

de media zit er zo vaak naast.
hoofdpersoon is een pathologische leugenaar. dat is eigenlijk het enige wat zeker is.
zoveel tegenstrijdige informatie zwerft rond.
minister van justitie op aruba bemoeit zich teveel met het onderzoek.

ik verwacht dat peter r. in een volgende uitzending wel de corruptie/cover-up zal belichten.
ook de tweede kamer zal wel wat vragen hebben volgende maand.

Ik verwacht niks van peter r de vries, ja alleen nog maar meer suggestieve opmerkingen

quote:

Op dinsdag 19 februari 2008 19:15 schreef lookinforyou het volgende:

[..]

Ik verwacht niks van peter r de vries, ja alleen nog maar meer suggestieve opmerkingen

als hij al de tegenstrijdigheden nog eens op een rijtje zou zetten.
en de fouten die justitie op aruba heeft gemaakt.
dan hoeft hij geeneens de suggestie meer te maken richting corruptie/cover-up.
de rechtsstaat op aruba verschilt behoorlijk met die in nederland.
blind vertrouwen in justitie is daar vele malen naïever dan hier in nederland.