Misdaad
Een forum voor onopgeloste misdaden en macabere zaken uit het verleden.
I'm not sure what you mean?quote:Op zaterdag 9 februari 2008 04:02 schreef kabouterjong het volgende:
[..]
Of course there is a reason to dispose of the body! AFAI can see Natalee died at the van der Sloot's house, and that would fuck up the position of the new judge in training...
Do you mean if there was an accident at VDS's house, that would be enough to decide to cover it up?
Because I was talking about an accident > if it where an accident, then there's no reason to dispose of the body.
I dont see why there ever would be a need to cover up an accident.
An interesting observation.quote:Most of the statements Joran and the the Kalpoe brothers have made so far seem to try to get the attention distracted from the house (to the beach),
I had to search a while for that statement:
http://www.hollowaycase.c(...)oranandsatish618.htm
It's been bothering me since i read it. There were these pictures with PVDS (possibly) being in the casino with Natalee, there's the statement from the gardener seeing the the Honda Civic between 2:30 and 3:00 a clock or so near the lighthouse (another statement i have to look up); a lot later than the three guys say they were at that place. And there's no proof of Joran and Natalee ever being at the beach (a report of some fishers near the Mariott around the time Joran supposedly left Natalee on the beach, but the fishermen don't recall seeing anyone). All of this made me think that the whole thing was a cover up to hide the death of Natalee at the VDS house to avoid problems for PVDS. He'd never become a judge if they found out a young girl died at his place...
Or am i simply imagening things here?
http://www.hollowaycase.c(...)oranandsatish618.htm
It's been bothering me since i read it. There were these pictures with PVDS (possibly) being in the casino with Natalee, there's the statement from the gardener seeing the the Honda Civic between 2:30 and 3:00 a clock or so near the lighthouse (another statement i have to look up); a lot later than the three guys say they were at that place. And there's no proof of Joran and Natalee ever being at the beach (a report of some fishers near the Mariott around the time Joran supposedly left Natalee on the beach, but the fishermen don't recall seeing anyone). All of this made me think that the whole thing was a cover up to hide the death of Natalee at the VDS house to avoid problems for PVDS. He'd never become a judge if they found out a young girl died at his place...
Or am i simply imagening things here?
kabouterjong,
You are 100% on the ball and totally correct!! They were never at the beach and I am quite sure they were at the VDS house! But,PVDS I believe already knew he failed the tests to become a judge. He gave interviews about this and said he wasn't ready. We know he was asking Rudy Croes for a job in the Justice Dept.
You are 100% on the ball and totally correct!! They were never at the beach and I am quite sure they were at the VDS house! But,PVDS I believe already knew he failed the tests to become a judge. He gave interviews about this and said he wasn't ready. We know he was asking Rudy Croes for a job in the Justice Dept.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
New cement being placed on their swimming pool (where did i read that?), a truck/van of a furniture company parked behind their house (where was that picture?), the 'judge' or whoever restricting the search to Joran's little cottage when they had authority to search all of the premisses... The Honda Civic too clean to be true afterwards. Joran's shoes. It's just to wild to believe.
Thats just part of the story and is all correct. I don't think anyone could ever think up a story like this in a million years. Originally they said they had one shoe and were looking for the other..Then it was a pair of shoes. Does he have size 14 or 10.5?quote:Op zaterdag 9 februari 2008 04:54 schreef kabouterjong het volgende:
New cement being placed on their swimming pool (where did i read that?), a truck/van of a furniture company parked behind their house (where was that picture?), the 'judge' or whoever restricting the search to Joran's little cottage when they had authority to search all of the premisses... The Honda Civic too clean to be true afterwards. Joran's shoes. It's just to wild to believe.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Maybe if she were drunk and/or took drugs aaand had his sperm on/in her.. I can see how someone might panicquote:Op zaterdag 9 februari 2008 04:18 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
I'm not sure what you mean?
Do you mean if there was an accident at VDS's house, that would be enough to decide to cover it up?
Because I was talking about an accident > if it where an accident, then there's no reason to dispose of the body.
I dont see why there ever would be a need to cover up an accident.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Yeah i know. It keeps haunting my brain this thing. I also know the Aruban police made a mojor fuck up in this case. Sorry to say that. They should have acted when they had the chance. Now it's years later and most of the evidence is probably gone. I can only hope the truth will still emerge some day. That day, it will most probably be proven that Peter de Vries was to quick with his assumptions. Joran is still lying to save someone's ass. For now i have to save my own though, and get some sleep if i can. I'll be with you (and the rest of the posse) tomorrow...
Natalee's case on Nancy Grace Feb 8th,2008
(Beth and Dave H)
Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctfsE7DrqIM
Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE5RyKbO154
Part3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmlWJrAE3kI
Part4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faCbxqKHEIo
[ Bericht 1% gewijzigd door observer777 op 09-02-2008 07:24:50 ]
(Beth and Dave H)
Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctfsE7DrqIM
Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE5RyKbO154
Part3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmlWJrAE3kI
Part4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faCbxqKHEIo
[ Bericht 1% gewijzigd door observer777 op 09-02-2008 07:24:50 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Yes well I had a short exchange about this subject earlier. I think disposing of a body is an admission of guild. People just dont do something like that to avoid an inconvenience or like Jorans explanation out of fear of punishment for being out at night.quote:Op zaterdag 9 februari 2008 05:09 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Maybe if she were drunk and/or took drugs aaand had his sperm on/in her.. I can see how someone might panic
Also combined with the numerous times when Joran says he's done for if they find the body.. its self evident imo.
Kijk het is vrijwel onmogelijk om zo'n zaak via de computer op te lossen .
Een rechtbank zal altijd kijken naar de harde bewijzen
Als de georganiseerde gokwereld ook achter de verdwijing zit zal ze echt nooit gevonden worden
alleen forensische bewijzen kunnen hem dan de nek om doen .
inmiddels zet z'n eigen advocaat hem ook neer als een serie LEUGENAAR.
Dat ie dat is komt ze blijkbaar goed uit .
Z'n vader heeft middelen genoeg om hem goed te laten verdedigen .
ik denk zelf dat ze dus niet in zee gedumpt is
later meer hierover .
ik blijf bij het riolerings scenario ,daarin wordt ik gesterkt door het aantal
zenuwachtige reacties die ik krijg op m'n schrijven hier en elders van allerlei mensen dat ik bezig ben het volledige plan van het riolerings stelsel te gaan ontvangen ( beerputten ,septictanks etc )
hier een visie over hoe de gokwereld werkt
zie verhaal van 8 februari 2008 @ 18:31 Was Natalee Holloway Set Up?
Was Natalee Holloway Set Up?
One thing that investigators do when they reach an impasse in a case is they go back to the beginning and retrace the facts as they know them. In the case of missing Natalee Holloway let's do that one more time from the FACTS we know to be true.
Fact: Joran Van der Sloot was a frequent gambler in the casinos in Aruba. He was a playboy and well-connected to several of the people in those casinos. We know this because he was underage and was allowed to drink and gamble.
Fact: Joran Van der Sloot was hanging around the students from Mountain Brook all week long.
Fact: Joran Van der Sloot intially approached Natalee at a black jack table, not the other way around.
Fact: He was polite and when told she had lost a good deal of money gambling during the week, he played for her and won some of it back, earning her approval.
Fact: Natalee left him at the casino and went to Carlos and Charlie's for the final part of the evening showing little interest in him romantically.
Fact: Joran Van der Sloot showed up at Carlos and Charlie's and reconnected with Natalee there. They were seen dancing and leaving the club together.
Fact: Natalee got into a car driven by one of the Kalpoe brothers just a few feet away from her friends who were finding their way back to the hotel.
Fact: Natalee was never seen again.
These are all facts that have been documented by interviews with the friends of both Joran Van der Sloot and Natalee Holloway. Beyond these facts, we know nothing else to be true. It is conjecture. But, these facts, if taken logically, could lead to a very strong conjecture....
Was Natalee Holloway set up from the beginning to be taken off the island against her will?
Here is the conjecture part based on some reasonable assumptions of the facts.
>>>
Joran Van der Sloot likes to gamble. If you know anything about gambling, you know that most gamblers lose. If a gambler borrows a significant amount of money that he or she cannot pay back legally then they have to come up with a way to resolve it illegally. Owing someone money makes us do things we would not normally do. Owing someone who is dangerous a great deal of money would make us seriously consider doing something we would NEVER do. If Joran Van der Sloot owed a debt to someone and could not pay them back with his own money, he could have been told to pay with something or someone else. If this was the case, he would have to find a marker. Someone who fit the requirements of repayment. He would have to figure out a way to get that marker into the hands of the people he owed. Go back over the facts we know to be true. Remember, this is conjecture based on the facts. But, this scenario is one of the few that fits all the details including the amazing way that Natalee Holloway is nowhere to be found...
Joran spends time with the Mountain Brook kids and sizes up Natalee Holloway as the perfect mark. He waits until the last night and finds her playing cards. He makes friends with her by helping her out, thus winning her trust. He then calls the Kalpoe brothers and arranges for them to be his transportation for the rest of the evening. He finds her again at Carlos and Charlie's. He knows she will be there because she told him at the black jack table she would be. He dances with her and puts something in her drink shortly before she leaves the bar. We are not certain WHY she got into the car with him. She is either not in control of her faculties or is inebriated enough to be responding to him at this point. He tells her that he wants to, "show her the island" and she is either out of it or is thinking, "This guy is fun! I am having a good time. No harm in that!" She walks out with him and instead of telling her friends anything, she allows him to guide her into the car which has just pulled up. She jumps into the back seat and off they go. They wheel around the lighthouse and head to a deserted part of the island away from all the lights and people.. At that point, Joran Van der Sloot gets Natalee out of the car (or they carry her unconsciously) and takes her to the shoreline where several individuals are waiting. They force her into a boat and the debt is paid. Joran has done his part. He gets back into the car, tells the Kalpoe brothers to take him home or to the Marriott Hotel beach area. At some point, he either tells his dad or calls him from the beach. He tells his dad about Natalee "overdosing" on drugs or alcohol and that he asked some friends of his to get rid of her. He doesn't tell him about the debt. But, he is really scared that he might get into trouble. His father assures him, "No body, no CASE! and is upset that Natalee has died but it was not the fault of his son." (He may not know anymore than that since it is also documented that Joran lies to his parents constantly) The Kalpoe brothers are not going to talk because they are afraid for their own lives and five weeks later...No Natalee. Why not? She is not on the island. Who knows what the others did to her after she was dropped off. The debt was paid in full.
Conjecture is all we have. It may be all that we ever have. Joran is the only person being interrogated so all he has to do is keep quiet. There is no one else that really knows any of the other details except for him. The Kalpoe brothers may know that Natalee was put into a boat, but they could never prove it and if they talk they could die. The father doesn't want to know anything because he wants to be a judge and protect his son. The mother is clueless.
It is one of the few ways that Natalee Holloway could have disappeared so effectively. Like Caren Janssen, the Attorney General says, "There is NO evidence that a murder or even a crime has been committed." Of course not.
The actions of Joran Van der Sloot stalking Natalee in advance make me lean towards this grisly ending. This appears to have been planned earlier in the week. If he was desperate for money or feared for his own life, he would do just about anything to settle it in his favor. He may not be a murderer. He may be an accomplice to a kidnapping, instead. Either way, he is a sleaze bag who is clamming up because he doesn't want his own future compromised. That is why he will never talk. Never.
A lot of things fit with this scenario:
---no real evidence of cell phone activity, email or text messaging went on which would have indicated a panic once the murder was committed. Instead, Joran kept everything to himself. The advance plan kept any communication after the fact to a minimum
---the father is nervous about what happened to Natalee but really doesn't know much more beyond that.
---it explains why a responsible girl like Natalee did not respond initially to Joran and may have only left with him out of gratitude and a chance for some harmless fun or she was drugged.
---it explains why the Kalpoe brothers didn't break down under interrogation and why now they may leave the country out of fear. Otherwise, why leave?
---it fits Joran hanging around the group and not really engaging any of the girls all week until deciding on Natalee the last night she was there.
---it fits Joran's gambling habit.
---it explains why the body was never found and how the strategy to dispose of her was not done in a few hours but well-planned over several days.
---it explains why a calculating, intelligent girl like Natalee did not make an impulsive and irresponsible decision to get into a car with three virtual strangers while her friends were standing all around her.
---it explains the comment, "Don't worry boys, no body, no CASE!"
---it allows for the possibility that Joran Van der Sloot is not a psychopathic killer, but a coward who uses other people when it suits him. The greater the problem, the more desperate his solution.
The prevailing thinking is that he killed her alone on the beach and called his dad to help him dispose of her body. I understand that view. Either way, since the FBI was not allowed to have any control here, the absence of a lie detector, no crime scene and no physical evidence or apparent motive...Joran Van der Sloot is looking pretty safe from a legal standpoint right now.
By Pat Hurley
July 5, 2005
Een rechtbank zal altijd kijken naar de harde bewijzen
Als de georganiseerde gokwereld ook achter de verdwijing zit zal ze echt nooit gevonden worden
alleen forensische bewijzen kunnen hem dan de nek om doen .
inmiddels zet z'n eigen advocaat hem ook neer als een serie LEUGENAAR.
Dat ie dat is komt ze blijkbaar goed uit .
Z'n vader heeft middelen genoeg om hem goed te laten verdedigen .
ik denk zelf dat ze dus niet in zee gedumpt is
later meer hierover .
ik blijf bij het riolerings scenario ,daarin wordt ik gesterkt door het aantal
zenuwachtige reacties die ik krijg op m'n schrijven hier en elders van allerlei mensen dat ik bezig ben het volledige plan van het riolerings stelsel te gaan ontvangen ( beerputten ,septictanks etc )
hier een visie over hoe de gokwereld werkt
zie verhaal van 8 februari 2008 @ 18:31 Was Natalee Holloway Set Up?
Was Natalee Holloway Set Up?
One thing that investigators do when they reach an impasse in a case is they go back to the beginning and retrace the facts as they know them. In the case of missing Natalee Holloway let's do that one more time from the FACTS we know to be true.
Fact: Joran Van der Sloot was a frequent gambler in the casinos in Aruba. He was a playboy and well-connected to several of the people in those casinos. We know this because he was underage and was allowed to drink and gamble.
Fact: Joran Van der Sloot was hanging around the students from Mountain Brook all week long.
Fact: Joran Van der Sloot intially approached Natalee at a black jack table, not the other way around.
Fact: He was polite and when told she had lost a good deal of money gambling during the week, he played for her and won some of it back, earning her approval.
Fact: Natalee left him at the casino and went to Carlos and Charlie's for the final part of the evening showing little interest in him romantically.
Fact: Joran Van der Sloot showed up at Carlos and Charlie's and reconnected with Natalee there. They were seen dancing and leaving the club together.
Fact: Natalee got into a car driven by one of the Kalpoe brothers just a few feet away from her friends who were finding their way back to the hotel.
Fact: Natalee was never seen again.
These are all facts that have been documented by interviews with the friends of both Joran Van der Sloot and Natalee Holloway. Beyond these facts, we know nothing else to be true. It is conjecture. But, these facts, if taken logically, could lead to a very strong conjecture....
Was Natalee Holloway set up from the beginning to be taken off the island against her will?
Here is the conjecture part based on some reasonable assumptions of the facts.
>>>
Joran Van der Sloot likes to gamble. If you know anything about gambling, you know that most gamblers lose. If a gambler borrows a significant amount of money that he or she cannot pay back legally then they have to come up with a way to resolve it illegally. Owing someone money makes us do things we would not normally do. Owing someone who is dangerous a great deal of money would make us seriously consider doing something we would NEVER do. If Joran Van der Sloot owed a debt to someone and could not pay them back with his own money, he could have been told to pay with something or someone else. If this was the case, he would have to find a marker. Someone who fit the requirements of repayment. He would have to figure out a way to get that marker into the hands of the people he owed. Go back over the facts we know to be true. Remember, this is conjecture based on the facts. But, this scenario is one of the few that fits all the details including the amazing way that Natalee Holloway is nowhere to be found...
Joran spends time with the Mountain Brook kids and sizes up Natalee Holloway as the perfect mark. He waits until the last night and finds her playing cards. He makes friends with her by helping her out, thus winning her trust. He then calls the Kalpoe brothers and arranges for them to be his transportation for the rest of the evening. He finds her again at Carlos and Charlie's. He knows she will be there because she told him at the black jack table she would be. He dances with her and puts something in her drink shortly before she leaves the bar. We are not certain WHY she got into the car with him. She is either not in control of her faculties or is inebriated enough to be responding to him at this point. He tells her that he wants to, "show her the island" and she is either out of it or is thinking, "This guy is fun! I am having a good time. No harm in that!" She walks out with him and instead of telling her friends anything, she allows him to guide her into the car which has just pulled up. She jumps into the back seat and off they go. They wheel around the lighthouse and head to a deserted part of the island away from all the lights and people.. At that point, Joran Van der Sloot gets Natalee out of the car (or they carry her unconsciously) and takes her to the shoreline where several individuals are waiting. They force her into a boat and the debt is paid. Joran has done his part. He gets back into the car, tells the Kalpoe brothers to take him home or to the Marriott Hotel beach area. At some point, he either tells his dad or calls him from the beach. He tells his dad about Natalee "overdosing" on drugs or alcohol and that he asked some friends of his to get rid of her. He doesn't tell him about the debt. But, he is really scared that he might get into trouble. His father assures him, "No body, no CASE! and is upset that Natalee has died but it was not the fault of his son." (He may not know anymore than that since it is also documented that Joran lies to his parents constantly) The Kalpoe brothers are not going to talk because they are afraid for their own lives and five weeks later...No Natalee. Why not? She is not on the island. Who knows what the others did to her after she was dropped off. The debt was paid in full.
Conjecture is all we have. It may be all that we ever have. Joran is the only person being interrogated so all he has to do is keep quiet. There is no one else that really knows any of the other details except for him. The Kalpoe brothers may know that Natalee was put into a boat, but they could never prove it and if they talk they could die. The father doesn't want to know anything because he wants to be a judge and protect his son. The mother is clueless.
It is one of the few ways that Natalee Holloway could have disappeared so effectively. Like Caren Janssen, the Attorney General says, "There is NO evidence that a murder or even a crime has been committed." Of course not.
The actions of Joran Van der Sloot stalking Natalee in advance make me lean towards this grisly ending. This appears to have been planned earlier in the week. If he was desperate for money or feared for his own life, he would do just about anything to settle it in his favor. He may not be a murderer. He may be an accomplice to a kidnapping, instead. Either way, he is a sleaze bag who is clamming up because he doesn't want his own future compromised. That is why he will never talk. Never.
A lot of things fit with this scenario:
---no real evidence of cell phone activity, email or text messaging went on which would have indicated a panic once the murder was committed. Instead, Joran kept everything to himself. The advance plan kept any communication after the fact to a minimum
---the father is nervous about what happened to Natalee but really doesn't know much more beyond that.
---it explains why a responsible girl like Natalee did not respond initially to Joran and may have only left with him out of gratitude and a chance for some harmless fun or she was drugged.
---it explains why the Kalpoe brothers didn't break down under interrogation and why now they may leave the country out of fear. Otherwise, why leave?
---it fits Joran hanging around the group and not really engaging any of the girls all week until deciding on Natalee the last night she was there.
---it fits Joran's gambling habit.
---it explains why the body was never found and how the strategy to dispose of her was not done in a few hours but well-planned over several days.
---it explains why a calculating, intelligent girl like Natalee did not make an impulsive and irresponsible decision to get into a car with three virtual strangers while her friends were standing all around her.
---it explains the comment, "Don't worry boys, no body, no CASE!"
---it allows for the possibility that Joran Van der Sloot is not a psychopathic killer, but a coward who uses other people when it suits him. The greater the problem, the more desperate his solution.
The prevailing thinking is that he killed her alone on the beach and called his dad to help him dispose of her body. I understand that view. Either way, since the FBI was not allowed to have any control here, the absence of a lie detector, no crime scene and no physical evidence or apparent motive...Joran Van der Sloot is looking pretty safe from a legal standpoint right now.
By Pat Hurley
July 5, 2005
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
highly recommend this.quote:Op zaterdag 9 februari 2008 06:24 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Natalee's case on Nancy Grace Feb 8th,2008
(Beth and Dave H)
Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctfsE7DrqIM
Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE5RyKbO154
Part3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmlWJrAE3kI
Part4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faCbxqKHEIo
part 2 explains about how Peter prepared Beth for whah she was about to see on the tapes.
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Friday, February 8, 2008
XVII. Support the Effort
Special Notice:
The dedicated ocean search for Natalee Holloway has been underway since mid-November, 2007. What began in Louisiana during mobilization now culminating in Aruba, the search has utilized some of the best search equipment and personnel in the world. To date, approximately 900 miles of sonar data has been collected covering a geographic area 80% the size of Aruba. The search has required a painstakingly slow approach which in the end leaves no stone unturned.
Although slow, this approach is extremely effective in marine search and recovery. Since the beginning, the search has been privately funded by Louis Schaefer Jr. of Underwater Expeditions who remarkably and gracefully accepted the financial burden when requested by Texas Equusearch and Natalee's parents. John Silvetti of Marine Surveys, Greg Landry of Offshore Innovative Solutions, Erik McGuire of Seatronics, along with Agiosat and Wilkens Weather Service came beside Louis to conduct this humanitarian effort. To put this search effort in financial perspective, an equivalent search conducted for industry would involve costs well exceeding several million dollars. This project has been conducted for about 35 cents on the dollar, with costs still exceeding a million dollars.
Although we have searched and ruled out an extensive portion of the original planned search area, a substantial portion of the high-probability area yet remains to be explored. Now, following a publicly confirmed admission that Natalee Holloway was disposed at sea, we are confident that completing the focused search area will bring closure. We therefore formally invite and request anyone who this humanitarian effort has touched to get involved and to help support the remaining search efforts. Donations are being handled by Texas Equusearch, a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization. Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: "Holloway search".
To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html
Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539
Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org
http://www.nholloway.blogspot.com/
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Die zenuwachtige reacties (ook op de komst van Observer 777) op dit forum en de negatieve kletspraatjes over Nathalee en haar familie zijn minstens opmerkelijk te noemen. Je zou het als wanhopige pogingen de berichtgeving een andere kant op te sturen, kunnen opvatten.quote:Op zaterdag 9 februari 2008 08:45 schreef johan555 het volgende:
ik blijf bij het riolerings scenario ,daarin wordt ik gesterkt door het aantal
zenuwachtige reacties die ik krijg op m'n schrijven hier en elders van allerlei mensen dat ik bezig ben het volledige plan van het riolerings stelsel te gaan ontvangen ( beerputten ,septictanks etc )
Het vele zoekwerk van Observer 777 en het Canadese Forum "Scared Monkeys" is overigens een compliment waard.
Greta van Susteren update plus some interesting reactions:
http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/02/08/update-from-aruba/4397/
http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/02/08/update-from-aruba/4397/
Wer lesen kann, ist klar im Vorteil.
Yesterday the newsitem came up that the Kalpoe brother sued Dr Phil. I red a lot of them, and allthough it could be just some detail being left out, I found it weird that the lawyer stated everywhere "They only dropped off Joran somewhere". Nowhere did it say the beach..quote:Op zaterdag 9 februari 2008 04:40 schreef kabouterjong het volgende:
I had to search a while for that statement:
http://www.hollowaycase.c(...)oranandsatish618.htm
It's been bothering me since i read it. There were these pictures with PVDS (possibly) being in the casino with Natalee, there's the statement from the gardener seeing the the Honda Civic between 2:30 and 3:00 a clock or so near the lighthouse (another statement i have to look up); a lot later than the three guys say they were at that place. And there's no proof of Joran and Natalee ever being at the beach (a report of some fishers near the Mariott around the time Joran supposedly left Natalee on the beach, but the fishermen don't recall seeing anyone). All of this made me think that the whole thing was a cover up to hide the death of Natalee at the VDS house to avoid problems for PVDS. He'd never become a judge if they found out a young girl died at his place...
Or am i simply imagening things here?
Where facts are few, experts are many.
This is what I believe is the true story how Natalee left Carlos and Charlies.
I had spoken with Dan Riehl in 2005 and I know for sure he had a valid eye witnesses that saw this and it is confirmed by Jossy Mansur just a few weeks ago. Natalee's parents also believe this story,although it is foggy with the witnesses and details. Dan Riehl was very angry at me for questioning his source in 2005 and wanted to show me his phone bills from all his research. She was drugged and did not leave in a drunken stupor with 3 strangers. Until I see otherwise,I am quite sure she initially left with the melee and confusion of everyone leaving about the same time near 1AM. For whatever reasons she went back into C and C a few minutes later and Deepak and probably Joran went back in and retrieved her 10 minutes later. She probably sensed it was a bad idea to leave with those three but could not think straight and went back to where it was safe to look for her friends. JK2 knew was incapacitated and went back in to get her before she was knocked out cold on the floor.She was in a drugged out stupor and was escorted out of the bar after most everyone had already left. Deepak probably told her he was taking her back to her hotel where Joran said he was staying,not that it really mattered because she was probably already in a zombie state of mind and could barely walk. MO
More info is available through the research@ http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html
Jossy Mansur Editor of Diario Newspaper
“A bartender at the club where she was that fatal night has confirmed that two of the three suspects had to practically drag her to the car because she was uncertain on her feet”
http://scaredmonkeys.com/page/7/
--------------------------------------------------------
Natalee Holloway Left Carlos And Charlies With Deepak
In what was a controversial story at the time, I reported that Natalee Holloway left Carlos and Charlies with Deepak Kalpoe and not Joran Va der Sloot. In addition to sources used for that first report, I have now confirmed through another independent witness that the report was in fact accurate.
In attempts to re-construct the time-line for the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance, it now seems that she did leave first with Joran Van der Sloot - but the two did not walk off together immediately.
At some point after most of Natalee's friends drifted away, Joran v d Sloot and Satish Kalpoe are thought to have left the front of the club, perhaps to return to Deepak's car.
Natalee then went back inside the club very briefly before emerging with the elder Kalpoe brother, who, as previously reported, was said to have been holding her by the arm. That has been described as non-romantic in nature and more consistent with an effort to assist one as they walk. At some point during that time period an unidentified Mountain Brook student is reported to have asked her if she was "Okay." It's believed she responded that she was.
The two are said to have been observed walking up the street from C and C some 80 to 100 yards, passing by the other nightclubs on the street until at or through a nearby intersection. At some point time after they disappeared from view, the three boys and Natalee Holloway are reported to have come back through the area, all seated in the car of Deepak Kalpoe. The car containing Natalee Holloway is said to have been observed by another Mountain Brook student who was located upon the porch of another nightclub.
http://tinyurl.com/39k757
-------------------------------------------------------
Previous Info
http://tinyurl.com/3a8877
[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door observer777 op 09-02-2008 20:39:09 ]
I had spoken with Dan Riehl in 2005 and I know for sure he had a valid eye witnesses that saw this and it is confirmed by Jossy Mansur just a few weeks ago. Natalee's parents also believe this story,although it is foggy with the witnesses and details. Dan Riehl was very angry at me for questioning his source in 2005 and wanted to show me his phone bills from all his research. She was drugged and did not leave in a drunken stupor with 3 strangers. Until I see otherwise,I am quite sure she initially left with the melee and confusion of everyone leaving about the same time near 1AM. For whatever reasons she went back into C and C a few minutes later and Deepak and probably Joran went back in and retrieved her 10 minutes later. She probably sensed it was a bad idea to leave with those three but could not think straight and went back to where it was safe to look for her friends. JK2 knew was incapacitated and went back in to get her before she was knocked out cold on the floor.She was in a drugged out stupor and was escorted out of the bar after most everyone had already left. Deepak probably told her he was taking her back to her hotel where Joran said he was staying,not that it really mattered because she was probably already in a zombie state of mind and could barely walk. MO
More info is available through the research@ http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html
Jossy Mansur Editor of Diario Newspaper
“A bartender at the club where she was that fatal night has confirmed that two of the three suspects had to practically drag her to the car because she was uncertain on her feet”
http://scaredmonkeys.com/page/7/
--------------------------------------------------------
Natalee Holloway Left Carlos And Charlies With Deepak
In what was a controversial story at the time, I reported that Natalee Holloway left Carlos and Charlies with Deepak Kalpoe and not Joran Va der Sloot. In addition to sources used for that first report, I have now confirmed through another independent witness that the report was in fact accurate.
In attempts to re-construct the time-line for the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance, it now seems that she did leave first with Joran Van der Sloot - but the two did not walk off together immediately.
At some point after most of Natalee's friends drifted away, Joran v d Sloot and Satish Kalpoe are thought to have left the front of the club, perhaps to return to Deepak's car.
Natalee then went back inside the club very briefly before emerging with the elder Kalpoe brother, who, as previously reported, was said to have been holding her by the arm. That has been described as non-romantic in nature and more consistent with an effort to assist one as they walk. At some point during that time period an unidentified Mountain Brook student is reported to have asked her if she was "Okay." It's believed she responded that she was.
The two are said to have been observed walking up the street from C and C some 80 to 100 yards, passing by the other nightclubs on the street until at or through a nearby intersection. At some point time after they disappeared from view, the three boys and Natalee Holloway are reported to have come back through the area, all seated in the car of Deepak Kalpoe. The car containing Natalee Holloway is said to have been observed by another Mountain Brook student who was located upon the porch of another nightclub.
http://tinyurl.com/39k757
-------------------------------------------------------
Previous Info
http://tinyurl.com/3a8877
[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door observer777 op 09-02-2008 20:39:09 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
On Google Earth i saw that there are buildings being constructed very near the vd Sloot place. The (satellite) picture appears to be from 2008. Does anyone happen to know what the situation was like around June 2005??? It would be the ideal place to hide a body...
And I think someone might do something like that when in panicquote:Op zaterdag 9 februari 2008 07:19 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
Yes well I had a short exchange about this subject earlier. I think disposing of a body is an admission of guild. People just dont do something like that to avoid an inconvenience or like Jorans explanation out of fear of punishment for being out at night.
Also combined with the numerous times when Joran says he's done for if they find the body.. its self evident imo.
However, I dont know what Joran did and Im not saying that he did this.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Hi guys,
Since the "confession" I've been following several forums and other media, but never felt the need to actively participate in the discussions. But now I do have some questions/points.
Regarding Natalees past
What is true about the claims that she has been in rehab (just prior to Aruba) and that she went missing before (2 weeks in Puerto Rico (?)). I've never seen any proof for these claims, accept that I've read a quote from, I believe, a MB student that claims she went missing before. It said somehing like: This (disappearance in Aruba) is nothing like when she went missing in Puerto Rico for two weeks.
I don't remember where I read this and can't find it anymore (or too lazy) I also have heard Jamaica before, and not entirely sure the quote said Puerto Rico.
Correction: I found this story here
WTF is up with Jossy Mansur?
Mansur has appeared in several TV shows and is mentioned alot on forums like SM
This guy is well known to be a large criminal, acquisations include money-laundring, (cigarette)smuggling, ties with mafia and drugcartels, bribing, etc. Mansur is head of a large rich family. Two guys of his family were extradicted to the US a couple of years ago (DEA), but not sure if they were convicted.
Someone else involved is Michael Posner, also a known mafia affiliate and owner of the HI casino.
Although I really admire the dedication of the Scared Monkeys, I do think they aren't neutral (to say it mildly). They are very biased and pro-Holloway. They are convinced Holloway/US are GOOD and Aruba/VDS are EVIL. They are convinced that Aruba is corrupt and VDS guilty. They don't hesitate to call Jorans mother a Whore and things like that (where's the proof of that, does she work in San Nicolas??). They often pull qutoes out of context. For instance yesterday they were talking about his confession in the car. One quote that kept popping up is "Even if they find her with my semen in her they can't do anything" (Al vinden ze dat meisje met m'n sperma er in, dan kunnen ze niks meer doen). Joran said this to explain to Patrick that if they had tried to make a murdercase and Joran is acquitted, that he can't be trialed for the same murder again. (Ne bis in idem / Double Jeopardy). He did say some bad thing about Natalee (calling her a slet/hoer =whore) but that's more or less a normal way to speak of a girl in the 'streetlanguage' Joran talks. Translation from dutch to english or papiamentoe (to dutch) to english is also dangerous. In the confession he said something like: She started shaking, and I shook her and then I take her. English speaking persons could see this as that he took her (had sex with her) but he just picked her up o.s.
So, I do admire SM's work and dedication for facts and objective discussions I prefer sites as refugeesunleashed.net or Scrux.com. Another good source with only hard evidence is this e-ssay
The many anti-Holloway sites started, IMO, as a response to sites like SM where they keep calling for a boycott of Aruba. Beth Holloway spoke very bad of Aruba in the first few months and that drew a lot of angry blood on Aruba. This was in june 05 o.s. A lot of Arubans helped in the search (they could get a day off for it) hotels and restaurants did not charge anything to the family/searchparty. Buit at the same time Beth spoke very badly over Aruba in the states. This started the uproar against the family. The linked article from Amigoe talks about the first few days of Beth on the island. Dutch article The Story told in this
Vanity Fair article is more or less the same.
As mentioned in the last article Julia Renfro was a friend of Beth in the beginning and she helped with the search in the first few days. After she made a comment about Joran on a TVshow she was considered the enemy by the Twitty's. She has been called a prostitute as well on the SMforum, just as Anita Holloway (What did she do wrong other than defend her flesh and blood). I believe Renfro is part of the pro-aruba lobby currently in the USA.
Some things I found strange are:
- the first poster the Twitty's put up in Aruba
.
If you read this poster you would think the family thought Natalee ran away from home.
-Tthe discrepancies between landingtimes of the unauthorized medplane the family arrived with, are very suspicious. (don't know if there is official proof of this)
-The fact that all students were sent to the US on monday, instead of being questioned.
-The reluctance of the FBI to give permission for an investigation in the US by Aruban police. (like question the students and family)
Those two psychics claiming a totally different story (childabuse/impregnation by Twitty) are working for the vdSloot family according to SM (so they must be evil)
I do think Joran knows more about it
[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door wwwever op 10-02-2008 04:44:21 ]
Since the "confession" I've been following several forums and other media, but never felt the need to actively participate in the discussions. But now I do have some questions/points.
Regarding Natalees past
What is true about the claims that she has been in rehab (just prior to Aruba) and that she went missing before (2 weeks in Puerto Rico (?)). I've never seen any proof for these claims, accept that I've read a quote from, I believe, a MB student that claims she went missing before. It said somehing like: This (disappearance in Aruba) is nothing like when she went missing in Puerto Rico for two weeks.
I don't remember where I read this and can't find it anymore (or too lazy) I also have heard Jamaica before, and not entirely sure the quote said Puerto Rico.
Correction: I found this story here
No reliable source to say the least (all heresayquote:I have a print out of a comment posted on Joran's website that says:
(exact wording)”natalee changed her hair color to black.cut her hair short. Still hiding @ rock formation ner big industrial company. I guess in puerto rico when she tried to do this ‘missing thing’ they found her verrrrrrrry fast. but this times I think she succeded. aruba is such smaller than puerto rico. they haven’t found her yet. maybe she’s happy this way. her friends knew about this but I had the guts to tell the truth. weird..”
Published by lindsey. - June 09 11:25 PM.
WTF is up with Jossy Mansur?
Mansur has appeared in several TV shows and is mentioned alot on forums like SM
This guy is well known to be a large criminal, acquisations include money-laundring, (cigarette)smuggling, ties with mafia and drugcartels, bribing, etc. Mansur is head of a large rich family. Two guys of his family were extradicted to the US a couple of years ago (DEA), but not sure if they were convicted.
I don't think any of the Mansurs has ever been convicted of a crime, but that to me just proofs that 'money makes the world go round'. If you have enough money you can buy your innocence. This is true in Aruba, but also everywhere else in the world, especially the US. (OJ/MJ)quote:The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family. The Mansurs made their fortune as cigarette manufacturers and in the import-export business. With a licence of Philip Morris, they are the major suppliers of Marlboros in the Caribbean basin. The Mansurs sponsor the best baseball team – Aruba's national sport – the Marlboro Red Tigers as well as the AVP party of Prime Minister Henny Eman. They own the biggest hotel and time-sharing complex, La Cabana, with its inevitable casino. And they have a couple of import-export businesses in the Free Trade Zone.
Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". "When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government,"says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, "their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government. And you may guess how they make that kind of money”."Jossy Mansur is not impressed claiming that accusing people of drug trafficking and money laundering "has become a political tool to discredit them”."
source
Someone else involved is Michael Posner, also a known mafia affiliate and owner of the HI casino.
Although I really admire the dedication of the Scared Monkeys, I do think they aren't neutral (to say it mildly). They are very biased and pro-Holloway. They are convinced Holloway/US are GOOD and Aruba/VDS are EVIL. They are convinced that Aruba is corrupt and VDS guilty. They don't hesitate to call Jorans mother a Whore and things like that (where's the proof of that, does she work in San Nicolas??). They often pull qutoes out of context. For instance yesterday they were talking about his confession in the car. One quote that kept popping up is "Even if they find her with my semen in her they can't do anything" (Al vinden ze dat meisje met m'n sperma er in, dan kunnen ze niks meer doen). Joran said this to explain to Patrick that if they had tried to make a murdercase and Joran is acquitted, that he can't be trialed for the same murder again. (Ne bis in idem / Double Jeopardy). He did say some bad thing about Natalee (calling her a slet/hoer =whore) but that's more or less a normal way to speak of a girl in the 'streetlanguage' Joran talks. Translation from dutch to english or papiamentoe (to dutch) to english is also dangerous. In the confession he said something like: She started shaking, and I shook her and then I take her. English speaking persons could see this as that he took her (had sex with her) but he just picked her up o.s.
So, I do admire SM's work and dedication for facts and objective discussions I prefer sites as refugeesunleashed.net or Scrux.com. Another good source with only hard evidence is this e-ssay
The many anti-Holloway sites started, IMO, as a response to sites like SM where they keep calling for a boycott of Aruba. Beth Holloway spoke very bad of Aruba in the first few months and that drew a lot of angry blood on Aruba. This was in june 05 o.s. A lot of Arubans helped in the search (they could get a day off for it) hotels and restaurants did not charge anything to the family/searchparty. Buit at the same time Beth spoke very badly over Aruba in the states. This started the uproar against the family. The linked article from Amigoe talks about the first few days of Beth on the island. Dutch article The Story told in this
Vanity Fair article is more or less the same.
As mentioned in the last article Julia Renfro was a friend of Beth in the beginning and she helped with the search in the first few days. After she made a comment about Joran on a TVshow she was considered the enemy by the Twitty's. She has been called a prostitute as well on the SMforum, just as Anita Holloway (What did she do wrong other than defend her flesh and blood). I believe Renfro is part of the pro-aruba lobby currently in the USA.
Some things I found strange are:
- the first poster the Twitty's put up in Aruba
.
.If you read this poster you would think the family thought Natalee ran away from home.
-Tthe discrepancies between landingtimes of the unauthorized medplane the family arrived with, are very suspicious. (don't know if there is official proof of this)
-The fact that all students were sent to the US on monday, instead of being questioned.
-The reluctance of the FBI to give permission for an investigation in the US by Aruban police. (like question the students and family)
Those two psychics claiming a totally different story (childabuse/impregnation by Twitty) are working for the vdSloot family according to SM (so they must be evil)
I do think Joran knows more about it
[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door wwwever op 10-02-2008 04:44:21 ]
Intentionally left blank.
One other thing I just thought of.
The police stated that no other calls were made from the beach area, accept those to Deepak. What if Joran had 2 cellphones? Not very unusual especially not IF he is the date-raping drug dealer some people claim...
Did the police check all calls made in that area or only his phone and the payphones? At that time probably only a few calls were made in that region (or entire island by the way)
The police stated that no other calls were made from the beach area, accept those to Deepak. What if Joran had 2 cellphones? Not very unusual especially not IF he is the date-raping drug dealer some people claim...
Did the police check all calls made in that area or only his phone and the payphones? At that time probably only a few calls were made in that region (or entire island by the way)
Intentionally left blank.
wwwever,
Unfortunately you are terribly misinformed and you need to stop reading at RU if you want to learn the truth and not lies and wrong information.
Unfortunately you are terribly misinformed and you need to stop reading at RU if you want to learn the truth and not lies and wrong information.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Observer,
Ok I might be misinformed, but do you mind adressing some of the points I made.
the rehab/missing in PR is not true, I believe that
Mansur is BAD I do know that (everybody that rich must be bad LOL)
Renfro and AVDS are being called a prostitute by posters on SM. Where's the proof in that? Do they work in SN?
The (med)plane did arrive, Beth claimed she arrived at 2300 others that she arrived at like 1945.
That first poster could be a fake, but surely someone must have an original.
What is your explanation why the other students were all send home (why not let a couple of them stay to help the investigation or at least ask around themselves.
Did the FBI give permission for an investigation by the ALE in the US? Why would they not give this?
What's your opinion on the Vanity Fair article?
Don't get me wrong, I know Aruba (and the Dutch Antiles for that matter) are corrupt as hell. And I know Joran is guilty of something.
My apologies for claiming RU is alot more objective, I read that on some other site (probably the forensic essay) I've just read some more posts on RU and alot of them are just SM bashing.
What happened to make you guys so hateful of forums like RU. I did see the monKKKey cage post. There must be a reason a lot of sites talk bad about SM.
Ok I might be misinformed, but do you mind adressing some of the points I made.
the rehab/missing in PR is not true, I believe that
Mansur is BAD I do know that (everybody that rich must be bad LOL)
Renfro and AVDS are being called a prostitute by posters on SM. Where's the proof in that? Do they work in SN?
The (med)plane did arrive, Beth claimed she arrived at 2300 others that she arrived at like 1945.
That first poster could be a fake, but surely someone must have an original.
What is your explanation why the other students were all send home (why not let a couple of them stay to help the investigation or at least ask around themselves.
Did the FBI give permission for an investigation by the ALE in the US? Why would they not give this?
What's your opinion on the Vanity Fair article?
Don't get me wrong, I know Aruba (and the Dutch Antiles for that matter) are corrupt as hell. And I know Joran is guilty of something.
My apologies for claiming RU is alot more objective, I read that on some other site (probably the forensic essay) I've just read some more posts on RU and alot of them are just SM bashing.
What happened to make you guys so hateful of forums like RU. I did see the monKKKey cage post. There must be a reason a lot of sites talk bad about SM.
Intentionally left blank.
