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  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 19:12:00 #51
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42676965
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 18:56 schreef LXIV het volgende:

[..]

Handvest van de VN -ook door de VS geratificeerd- artikel 51:
http://untreaty.un.org/co(...)pp2_vol2-art51_e.pdf
Er staan heel veel dingen in het handvest waar heel veel landen om allerlei redenen zich niet aan houden. Het afzetten van Saddam was een van de weinige echt goede redenen om dat niet te doen.
quote:
Tijdens Saddam was de boel aardig onder controle, en konden zelfs christenen en Joden vrijelijk leven. Irak was een seculiere staat, waar vrouwen naar school gingen en participeerden in het sociale leven.
Whahaha...net als in Duitsland onder de bruinhemden en Cambodja onder Pol Pot zeker.
De anderhalf miljoen Irakezen die tijdens het bewind van Saddam door geweld zijn omgekomen zijn zeker langs je heen gegaan.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
pi_42677059
Er vallen nu meer doden dan onder Saddam na de Golfoorlog, er vinden "etnische" zuiveringen plaats, elke dag worden er tientallen onthoofde en gemartelde mensen gevonden in de straten en aan de oevers van Bagdad, het land heeft geen functionerende centrale overheid meer en nou ja, het verhaal is bekend. Dat is een catastrofe, ja, een catastrofe a la Joegoslavië, Darfoer, Somalië, you name it. En die catastrofe is aangezwengeld door George W. Bush.
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 19:18:21 #53
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42677133
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 19:15 schreef Monidique het volgende:
En die catastrofe is aangezwengeld door George W. Bush.
Nou, meer door Al-Qaida. En inderdaad, noch de Amerikanen noch Saddam lijken mij een juiste oplossing voor het geweld tussen Soennieten en Sji'iten in het MO.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
pi_42677166
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 19:18 schreef klez het volgende:

[..]

Nou, meer door Al-Qaida.
Right...
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 19:23:10 #55
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42677248
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 19:19 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Right...
Zeker. De bedoelingen van Al-Qaida in Irak zijn allang duidelijk, zelfs voor de meeste Soennieten.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 20:53:21 #56
129292 LXIV
Cultuurmoslim
pi_42679848
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 19:18 schreef klez het volgende:

[..]

Nou, meer door Al-Qaida. En inderdaad, noch de Amerikanen noch Saddam lijken mij een juiste oplossing voor het geweld tussen Soennieten en Sji'iten in het MO.
Eehhrm. Er is duidelijk aangetoond, door het congres van de jou zo geliefde VS, dat er geen enkele band was tussen Saddam Hoessein en Al Quaïda.

Al Quaïda is ook geen duidelijke organisatie met een raad van bestuur en een ledenlijst. Het is meer een bepaald idee, dat eerder door de VS aangewakkerd dan bestreden wordt. Sterker nog, ik durf te beweren dat de belangrijkste succesfactor van Al Quaïda George Bush zelf is, niet Saddam Hoessein.
The End Times are wild
pi_42679941
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 20:53 schreef LXIV het volgende:
Sterker nog, ik durf te beweren dat de belangrijkste succesfactor van Al Quaïda George Bush zelf is, niet Saddam Hoessein.
Dat klopt.
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:10:30 #58
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42680395
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 20:53 schreef LXIV het volgende:

[..]

Eehhrm. Er is duidelijk aangetoond, door het congres van de jou zo geliefde VS, dat er geen enkele band was tussen Saddam Hoessein en Al Quaïda.
Nou, de link tussen Saddam Hoessein en Al-Qaida is er wel degelijk. Dacht onder meer Bill Clinton. En Putin.
quote:
Al Quaïda is ook geen duidelijke organisatie met een raad van bestuur en een ledenlijst. Het is meer een bepaald idee, dat eerder door de VS aangewakkerd dan bestreden wordt. Sterker nog, ik durf te beweren dat de belangrijkste succesfactor van Al Quaïda George Bush zelf is, niet Saddam Hoessein.
Arabisch nationalisme door moslimfundamentalisme - de inspiratiebronnen van Al-Qaida- is al veel ouder dan Bush of Amerikaanse bemoeienis met het Midden-Oosten. En de aanpak van Bush (de confrontatie aangaan) zou op de lange termijn wel eens effectiever kunnen zijn dan de appeasement tactiek die veel Europeanen voorstaan.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
pi_42680444
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:10 schreef klez het volgende:

[..]

Nou, de link tussen Saddam Hoessein en Al-Qaida is er wel degelijk. Dacht onder meer Bill Clinton. En Putin.
Maar... ik weet niet of Clinton dat dacht, maar... zou het niet zo kunnen zijn dat zij het, zeg maar, fout hadden?
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:17:50 #60
129292 LXIV
Cultuurmoslim
pi_42680640
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:10 schreef klez het volgende:


Nou, de link tussen Saddam Hoessein en Al-Qaida is er wel degelijk. Dacht onder meer Bill Clinton. En Putin.
Nooit van gehoord.

Maar als je iets van de grondslagen van het Baathisme en Al Quaïda zou weten, zou je begrijpen dat onderlinge samenwerking of doelstellingen volkomen onzin zijn.

Net zoals Groen-Links en Wilders elkaar niet steunen. Maar dan erger.
The End Times are wild
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:18:48 #61
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42680676
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:11 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Maar... ik weet niet of Clinton dat dacht, maar... zou het niet zo kunnen zijn dat zij het, zeg maar, fout hadden?
Dat zou kunnen. Maar ik denk het niet. Het spel wordt slim gespeeld aan de kant van de partijen die de VS/het Westen een lesje willen leren.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
pi_42680719
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:18 schreef klez het volgende:

[..]

Dat zou kunnen. Maar ik denk het niet.
Je denkt het niet? Er zijn bewijzen, aanwijzingen, theoriën, et cetera, dat Al-Kaida en Hoessein niet samenwerkten, sterker nog, elkaar haatten, maar jij denkt gewoon dat ze wel wat met elkaar te maken hadden?
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:21:17 #63
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42680753
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:20 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Je denkt het niet? Er zijn bewijzen, aanwijzingen, theoriën, et cetera, dat Al-Kaida en Hoessein niet samenwerkten, sterker nog, elkaar haatten, maar jij denkt gewoon dat ze wel wat met elkaar te maken hadden?
Ik zie niet in waarom Putin, als tegenstander van de Amerikaanse invasie en ex-hoofd van een machtige inlichtingendienst, daarover zou liegen.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:25:05 #64
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42680883
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:17 schreef LXIV het volgende:


Net zoals Groen-Links en Wilders elkaar niet steunen. Maar dan erger.
Los daarvan doelde ik daar niet op. De link tussen Saddam en Al-Qaida. Al-Qaida probeert chaos te creëren in Irak, niet Bush.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:25:16 #65
129292 LXIV
Cultuurmoslim
pi_42680885
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:20 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Je denkt het niet? Er zijn bewijzen, aanwijzingen, theoriën, et cetera, dat Al-Kaida en Hoessein niet samenwerkten, sterker nog, elkaar haatten, maar jij denkt gewoon dat ze wel wat met elkaar te maken hadden?
Ach, wanneer een flauw vermoeden voor sommigen al voldoende is om een land binnen te vallen, dan kan alles toch...
The End Times are wild
pi_42680891
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:21 schreef klez het volgende:

[..]

Ik zie niet in waarom Putin, als tegenstander van de Amerikaanse invasie en ex-hoofd van een machtige inlichtingendienst, daarover zou liegen.
Er is nog steeds geen bewijs dat ze samenwerkten, maar er is wel bewijs dat ze niet samenwerkten. Alleen Poetin zegt iets ongefundeerds, en hij moet wel gelijk hebben en dús is er sprake van samenwerking. Dat is absurd. Face it, vooralsnog blijkt dat ze niet hebben samengewerkt, elkaar haatten en dat Irak zeker niets met 9/11, om het alvast maar te noemen, te maken had. Als je een andere mening hebt, dan is "Poetin zegt het. Ik zie niet in waarom Poetin zou liegen/het fout zou hebben/dronken was/etc. Dus Poetin heeft gelijk. Dus Al-Kaida en Irak collaboreerden" helaas geen serieus argument.
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:27:27 #67
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42680935
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:25 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Er is nog steeds geen bewijs dat ze samenwerkten, maar er is wel bewijs dat ze niet samenwerkten. Alleen Poetin zegt iets ongefundeerds, en hij moet wel gelijk hebben en dús is er sprake van samenwerking. Dat is absurd. Face it, vooralsnog blijkt dat ze niet hebben samengewerkt, elkaar haatten en dat Irak zeker niets met 9/11, om het alvast maar te noemen, te maken had. Als je een andere mening hebt, dan is "Poetin zegt het. Ik zie niet in waarom Poetin zou liegen/het fout zou hebben/dronken was/etc. Dus Poetin heeft gelijk. Dus Al-Kaida en Irak collaboreerden" helaas geen serieus argument.
Wat is het bewijs dan, dat ze dat niet deden? Over absurde statements gesproken.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:29:25 #68
129292 LXIV
Cultuurmoslim
pi_42681001
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:25 schreef klez het volgende:

[..]

Los daarvan doelde ik daar niet op. De link tussen Saddam en Al-Qaida.
Verder vind ik het natuurlijk prima dat er mensen zijn die nog steeds, zonder al te veel kennis van zaken en met een beperkt argumentatievermogen, vierkant achter de Irak-oorlog proberen te staan.
Dat geeft ons tegenstanders steeds weer opnieuw de gelegenheid om aan te tonen onder wat voor een valse voorwendselen de oorlog begonnen is en op wat voor een catastrophe zij is uitgelopen.
The End Times are wild
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:29:40 #69
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42681013
Fijn jullie weer gesproken te hebben. Ik ga mijn vrouw gezelschap houden, kom hier zeker nog op terug.
quote:
onder al te veel kennis van zaken en met een beperkt argumentatievermogen,
Sneu weer.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:30:44 #70
129292 LXIV
Cultuurmoslim
pi_42681047
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:29 schreef klez het volgende:
Fijn jullie weer gesproken te hebben. Ik ga mijn vrouw gezelschap houden, kom hier zeker nog op terug.
Houdoe!
The End Times are wild
pi_42681051
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:27 schreef klez het volgende:

[..]

Wat is het bewijs dan, dat ze dat niet deden? Over absurde statements gesproken.
Nou ja, afwezigheid van iets bewijzen is inderdaad absurd, maar het blijkt dat Hoessein Zarkawi wilde oppakken en dat Osama bin Laden tegen Irak wilde vechten. Dat noem ik toch wel bewijzen dat ze niet echt samenwerkten. Daarnaast is er dus geen bewijs dat ze wel samenwerkten. Het is gewoon heel simpel: Al-Kaida en Hoessein hadden niets met elkaar te maken, dat is een illusie die is gecreërd door het Bush-regime en wel om onder andere zodoende hun inval in Irak te rechtvaardigen. Meer niet.
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:33:14 #72
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42681117
Soms werkten ze samen en soms niet. Vijandschap en vriendschap zijn geen duidelijke begrippen, zeker in het MO niet. Allez, nu ben ik echt weg.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
pi_42681124
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:33 schreef klez het volgende:
Soms werkten ze samen en soms niet. Vijandschap en vriendschap zijn geen duidelijke begrippen, zeker in het MO niet. Allez, nu ben ik echt weg.
Wanneer werkten ze samen? Daar kan ik toch nog wel antwoord op krijgen, ook al dringt de tijd?
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:39:22 #74
129292 LXIV
Cultuurmoslim
pi_42681261
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:29 schreef klez het volgende:
Fijn jullie weer gesproken te hebben. Ik ga mijn vrouw gezelschap houden, kom hier zeker nog op terug.
[..]

Sneu weer.
Ok. Op de man spelen is altijd fout. Excuses.
The End Times are wild
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:39:54 #75
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42681278
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:33 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Wanneer werkten ze samen? Daar kan ik toch nog wel antwoord op krijgen, ook al dringt de tijd?
http://www.weeklystandard(...)03/033jgqyi.asp?pg=2
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
pi_42681347
quote:
Dat vreesde ik al, The Weekly Standard, in de aanloop naar de oorlog. Niets meer dan propaganda, natuurlijk. Een soort Pravda. Maar goed, dat is niet erg, wat erin staat kan (maar zal niet!) kloppen, ik zal eens kijken wat voor overweldigende bewijzen er zijn voor het samenwerken.

Ik bedoel, dat hele Praag-verhaal is al naar het rijk der fabelen verhuisd.
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 21:48:58 #77
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42681502
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:42 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Dat vreesde ik al, The Weekly Standard, in de aanloop naar de oorlog. Niets meer dan propaganda, natuurlijk. Een soort Pravda. Maar goed, dat is niet erg, wat erin staat kan (maar zal niet!) kloppen, ik zal eens kijken wat voor overweldigende bewijzen er zijn voor het samenwerken.

Ik bedoel, dat hele Praag-verhaal is al naar het rijk der fabelen verhuisd.
Ik heb ook maar even snel gegoogeld en het staat onomstotelijk vast dat Bush en consorten een hoop bullshit verkocht hebben (wie niet, zou ik bijna zeggen).
Maar het lijkt mij gewoon erg waarschijnlijk dat er wel degelijk banden waren tussen AQ en SH op enig moment, en op een ander moment misschien weer niet.
En jou ook wel, als je eerlijk bent denk ik. Daarmee verzwak je echt niet je standpunt dat je tegen de oorlog bent...
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
pi_42681601
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:48 schreef klez het volgende:
Maar het lijkt mij gewoon erg waarschijnlijk dat er wel degelijk banden waren tussen AQ en SH op enig moment, en op een ander moment misschien weer niet.
En jou ook wel, als je eerlijk bent denk ik.
Nee, geen banden met als bedoeling samenwerking, hoewel er volgens mij inderdaad bewijzen (nou ja, wat is bewezen in zulke gevallen?) zijn dat er contacten zijn geweest.

Maar Hayes, ja, ik wist dat ik 'm herkende.
  zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 @ 23:11:59 #79
70154 klez
100 million+ death and countin
pi_42683534
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 21:52 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Nee, geen banden met als bedoeling samenwerking, hoewel er volgens mij inderdaad bewijzen (nou ja, wat is bewezen in zulke gevallen?) zijn dat er contacten zijn geweest.

Maar Hayes, ja, ik wist dat ik 'm herkende.
En geef toe, het standpunt van Putin is op zijn minst opvallend te noemen.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred "
Ahmadinejad, leader of Iran
pi_42687246
Een grote blokkade om de oliebronnen heen, de pijpleidingen diep ondergrond leggen. Behalve de bronnen hoeft de VS dan niets meer de beschermen, laat de rest het maar uitzoeken
"Welfare culture is bad not just because, as in Europe, it's bankrupting the state, but because it enfeebles the citizenry, it erodes self-reliance and resourcefulness."
-Mark Steyn
pi_42687428
Glasplaat van maken. Zand genoeg, beetje energietoevoer in de vorm van een flinke atoombom.

Okay, beetje radicaal, maar wel zo makkelijk!

Het is een teringzooi, het blijft een teringzooi tot de olie op is. Ze willen niet, ze kunnen niet.
pi_42690542
Verder in de waanzin...

quote:
Bush keeps revising war justification

WASHINGTON - President Bush keeps revising his explanation for why the U.S. is in Iraq, moving from narrow military objectives at first to history-of-civilization stakes now.

Initially, the rationale was specific: to stop Saddam Hussein from using what Bush claimed were the Iraqi leader's weapons of mass destruction or from selling them to al-Qaida or other terrorist groups.

But 3 1/2 years later, with no weapons found, still no end in sight and the war a liability for nearly all Republicans on the ballot Nov. 7, the justification has become far broader and now includes the expansive "struggle between good and evil."

Republicans seized on North Korea's reported nuclear test last week as further evidence that the need for strong U.S. leadership extends beyond Iraq.

Bush's changing rhetoric reflects increasing administration efforts to tie the war, increasingly unpopular at home, with the global fight against terrorism, still the president's strongest suit politically.

"We can't tolerate a new terrorist state in the heart of the Middle East, with large oil reserves that could be used to fund its radical ambitions, or used to inflict economic damage on the West," Bush said in a news conference last week in the Rose Garden.

When no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq, Bush shifted his war justification to one of liberating Iraqis from a brutal ruler.

After Saddam's capture in December 2003, the rationale became helping to spread democracy through the Middle East. Then it was confronting terrorists in Iraq "so we do not have to face them here at home," and "making America safer," themes Bush pounds today.

"We're in the ideological struggle of the 21st century," he told a California audience this month. "It's a struggle between good and evil."

Vice President Dick Cheney takes it even further: "The hopes of the civilized world ride with us," Cheney tells audiences.

Except for the weapons of mass destruction argument, there is some validity in each of Bush's shifting rationales, said Michael O'Hanlon, a foreign policy scholar at the Brookings Institution who initially supported the war effort.

"And I don't have any big problems with any of them, analytically. The problem is they can't change the realities on the ground in Iraq, which is that we're in the process of beginning to lose," O'Hanlon said. "It is taking us a long time to realize that, but the war is not headed the way it should be."

Andrew Card, Bush's first chief of staff, said Bush's evolving rhetoric, including his insistence that Iraq is a crucial part of the fight against terrorism, is part of an attempt to put the war in better perspective for Americans.

The administration recently has been "doing a much better job" in explaining the stakes, Card said in an interview. "We never said it was going to be easy. The president always told us it would be long and tough."

"I'm trying to do everything I can to remind people that the war on terror has the war in Iraq as a subset. It's critical we succeed in Iraq as part of the war on terror," said Card, who left the White House in March.

Bush at first sought to explain increasing insurgent and sectarian violence as a lead-up to Iraqi elections. But elections came and went, and a democratically elected government took over, and the sectarian violence increased.

Bush has insisted U.S. soldiers will stand down as Iraqis stand up. He has likened the war to the 20th century struggles against fascism, Nazism and communism. He has called Iraq the "central front" in a global fight against radical jihadists.

Having jettisoned most of the earlier, upbeat claims of progress, Bush these days emphasizes consequences of setting even a limited withdrawal timetable: abandonment of the Iraqi people, destabilizing the Middle East and emboldening terrorists around the world.

The more ominous and determined his words, the more skeptical the American public appears, polls show, both on the war itself and over whether it is part of the larger fight against terrorism, as the administration insists.

Bush's approval rating, reflected by AP-Ipsos polls, has slid from the mid 60s at the outset of the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003 to the high 30s now. There were light jumps upward after the December 2003 capture of Saddam, Bush's re-election in November 2004 and each of three series of aggressive speeches over the past year. Those gains tended to vanish quickly.

With the war intruding on the fall elections, both parties have stepped up their rhetoric.

Republicans, who are also reeling from the congressional page scandal, are casting Democrats as seeking to "cut and run" and appease terrorists.

Democrats accuse Bush of failed leadership with his "stay the course" strategy. They cite a government intelligence assessment suggesting the Iraq war has helped recruit more terrorists, and a book by journalist Bob Woodward that portrays Bush as intransigent in his defense of the Iraq war and his advisers as bitterly divided.

Democrats say Iraq has become a distraction from the war against terrorism — not a central front. But they are divided among themselves on what strategy to pursue.

Republicans, too, increasingly are growing divided as U.S. casualties rise.

"I struggle with the fact that President Bush said, `As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.' But the fact is, this has not happened," said Rep. Christopher Shays (news, bio, voting record), R-Conn., a war supporter turned war skeptic.

The Republican chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Sen. John Warner (news, bio, voting record) of Virginia, said after a recent visit to Iraq that Iraq was "drifting sideways." He urged consideration of a "change of course" if the Iraq government fails to restore order over the next two or three months.

More than 2,750 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the war, most of them since Bush's May 2003 "mission accomplished" aircraft carrier speech. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have died.

Recent events have been dispiriting.

The United States now has about 141,000 troops in Iraq, up from about 127,000 in July. Some military experts have suggested at least one additional U.S. division, or around 20,000 troops, is needed in western Iraq alone.

Dan Benjamin, a former Middle East specialist with the National Security Council in the Clinton administration, said the administration is overemphasizing the nature of the threat in an effort to bolster support.

"I think the administration has oversold the case that Iraq could become a jihadist state," said Benjamin, now with the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "If the U.S. were to leave Iraq tomorrow, the result would be a bloodbath in which Sunnis and Shiites fight it out. But the jihadists would not be able to seek power."

Not all of Bush's rhetorical flourishes have had the intended consequences.

When the history of Iraq is finally written, the recent surge in sectarian violence is "going to be a comma," Bush said in several recent appearances.

Critics immediately complained that the remark appeared unsympathetic and dismissive of U.S. and Iraqi casualties, an assertion the White House disputed.

For a while last summer, Bush depicted the war as one against "Islamic fascism," borrowing a phrase from conservative commentators. The strategy backfired, further fanning anti-American sentiment across the Muslim world.

The "fascism" phrase abruptly disappeared from Bush's speeches, reportedly after he was talked out of it by Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice and Karen Hughes, a longtime Bush confidant now with the State Department.

Hughes said she would not disclose private conversations with the president. But, she told the AP, she did not use the "fascism" phrase herself. "I use `violent extremist,'" she said.
pi_42692955
quote:
Op zaterdag 14 oktober 2006 23:11 schreef klez het volgende:

[..]

En geef toe, het standpunt van Putin is op zijn minst opvallend te noemen.
Wat? Nee. Wat Poetin allemaal beweert, maakt niet echt uit.
pi_42697375
quote:
26 Sunnis killed in sectarian violence

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Suspected Shiite militiamen killed 26 Sunni Arabs in a city north of Baghdad that has been seized by a rash of sectarian bloodletting, an Interior Ministry official said Sunday.

The U.S. military, meanwhile, reported the deaths of a Marine and four soldiers.

The killings in Balad on Saturday were in apparent retaliation for the slayings of 17 Shiites whose decapitated bodies were found in an orchard on the town's outskirts Friday. An outbreak of sectarian violence has killed 43 people so far in Balad, 50 miles north of Baghdad.

Extra police flooded into the city and a curfew was imposed, Interior Ministry spokesman Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf said. Additional security measures were taken in other villages in the predominantly Sunni area, a hotbed of the insurgency battling U.S. and Iraqi forces.

The Marine was killed in combat Saturday in Anbar province, the Sunni heartland west of Baghdad, the military said.

Three soldiers died in a roadside bombing Saturday south of Baghdad, and another was killed in a roadside bombing Friday night southwest of the capital.

In eastern Baghdad Sunday, Interior Ministry Undersecretary Hala Shakir Salim survived a roadside bomb attack that killed three bystanders and two bodyguards, police Capt. Mohammed Abdul-Ghani said.

A married couple and two of their sons were killed Sunday morning when gunmen burst into their home in Mosul, Iraq's third-largest city 225 miles northwest of Baghdad. Two of their daughters-in-law were critically wounded. Police Col. Eid al-Jibouri said the identities of the attackers and their motive were unknown.

South of Baghdad, three women and four men were killed in drive-by shootings in the predominantly Shiite village of Wahda on Saturday afternoon, said provincial police spokesman Lt. Hadi Hassan.
pi_42715669
Grapjassen.
quote:
Extremisten Irak claimen eigen staat

De extremistische Mujahedeen Shura Raad, waaronder ook Al-Qa'ida in Irak valt, heeft in een video bekend gemaakt een eigen islamitische staat in Irak te hebben gesticht. De staat bestaat uit Bagdad en een aantal provincies in het westen van het land.

'We brengen u het goede nieuws dat we een islamitische Iraakse staat hebben gevormd en gesticht,’ zei de woordvoerder van de organisatie. Het gezicht van de man was onzichtbaar gemaakt. De Mujahedeen Shura Raad plaatste de video op een website.

Bescherming
In het gebied wonen vooral soennieten. Volgens de extremistische organisatie moeten zij worden beschermd. Nu de Koerden het noorden van het land in handen hebben en de sjiieten in het zuiden actief zijn, behoort het westen toe aan de soennieten, zei de woordvoerder van de Mujahedeen Shura Raad.

Vorige week heeft het parlement een wet goedgekeurd die de vorming van federale regio’s mogelijk maakt. Tegenstanders vrezen dat een opdeling in regio’s de veiligheidssituatie verslechtert.

Lijken
Een woordvoerder van het Iraakse parlement heeft in een reactie gezegd dat de soennieten de spanningen alleen maar groter maken. De Iraakse politie heeft afgelopen weekeinde in totaal 83 lijken gevonden. Tientallen waren doorzeefd met kogels, velen vertoonden bovendien sporen van mishandeling.

Een onafhankelijke commissie van het Amerikaanse Congres, ingesteld met steun van president George W. Bush, zou op korte termijn met een voorstel komen om Irak op te delen in drie autonome regio's. Dat schreef de Britse krant Sunday Times vorige week op basis van 'welingelichte bronnen'.

Federalisering
'De Koerden hebben in de praktijk al hun eigen gebied,' zou een bron bij de commissie hebben gezegd. 'De federalisering van Irak zal hoe dan ook voortgaan.'

De commissie zal naar verwachting niet volledige afscheiding adviseren, maar een verregaande opdeling met een kleine centrale regering in Bagdad die Buitenlandse Zaken, grenscontrole en de verdeling van oliegelden voor haar rekening moet nemen.
pi_42716369
quote:
86 Iraqis die in 2-day violence spree

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's government indefinitely postponed a much-anticipated national reconciliation conference Sunday as a two-day spree of sectarian revenge killings and insurgent bombings left at least 86 Iraqis dead.

The U.S. military, meanwhile, said three Marines and four soldiers were killed from Friday through Sunday, the latest deaths in an especially bloody month. Hundreds of Iraqis have died in attacks and more than 50 U.S. military personnel have been killed in the first two weeks alone.

The three Marines were killed in western Anbar province, the military said. Three of the soldiers died in a roadside bombing Saturday south of Baghdad, while the fourth was killed in a roadside bombing Friday southwest of the capital.

Elsewhere, a militant network that includes al-Qaida in Iraq announced in a video that it had established an Islamic state in six provinces, a propaganda push in its drive to force the withdrawal of U.S. forces and topple the American-backed Iraqi government.

The Mujahedeen Shura Council — an umbrella organization of insurgent groups in Iraq — said the new state was made up of six provinces including Baghdad that have large Sunni populations, along with parts of two other central provinces that are predominantly Shiite.

Responding to the statement, the speaker of the Iraqi parliament, Mahmud al-Meshhedani, derided the group's leaders as "vulgar with no religion, who only kill others under the pretext of jihad (holy war)."

"Those who believe in this council are ignorant and those who follow it are foolish," al-Meshhedani said. "This council caused the sectarian conflict as well the displacement of both Shiites and Sunnis."

The militants' announcement appeared mainly symbolic, since no Iraqi insurgent group has the strength or authority to act as a rival government and none controls territory.

It underscored, however, the weakness of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's government and its inability to bring Iraq's deeply divided politicians together.
pi_42734325
quote:
91 die in sectarian violence in Iraq

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Four days of sectarian slaughter killed at least 91 people by Monday in Balad, a town near a major U.S. air base an hour's drive north of the capital. Elsewhere, 60 Iraqis died in attacks and 16 tortured bodies were found.

The U.S. command said seven American troops died in fighting a day earlier. That raised the U.S. toll to 58 killed in the first two weeks of October, a pace that if continued would make the month the worst for coalition forces since 107 U.S. and 10 British soldiers died in January 2005.

Iraqi deaths also are running at a high rate. According to an Associated Press count, 708 Iraqis have been reported killed in war-related violence this month, or just over 44 a day, compared to a daily average of more than 27 since the AP began tracking deaths in April 2005.

A surge in sectarian bloodshed and jump in U.S. casualties coincide with the run-up to the American midterm elections in which the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war has become a key issue.

The U.S. military has kept a low profile in Balad, where violence began Friday with the slaying of 17 Shiite Muslim workers. Revenge-seeking Shiite death squads then killed 74 Sunnis, causing people to flee across the Tigris River to the nearby Sunni-dominated city of Duluiyah.

An American spokesman did not directly respond when asked if the Iraqi government had sought U.S. military assistance in quelling the violence.

"Coalition force units are partnering with Iraqi police and Iraqi army units involved in operations around Balad. We are also providing quick reaction assets to the Iraqi police and army. The IA and IP are in the lead with the operations around Balad," Lt. Col. Christopher Garver said.
pi_42735891
gelul

[ Bericht 23% gewijzigd door Godslasteraar op 18-10-2006 09:06:14 ]
pi_42760063
Blijkbaar een ander topic gemist
quote:
CHENEY: Well, I think there’s some natural level of concern out there because in fact, you know, it wasn’t over instantaneously. It’s been a little over three years now since we went into Iraq, so I don’t think it’s surprising that people are concerned.

On the other hand, this government has only been in office about five months, five or six months now. They’re off to a good start. It is difficult, no question about it, but we’ve now got over 300,000 Iraqis trained and equipped as part of their security forces. They’ve had three national elections with higher turnout than we have here in the United States. If you look at the general overall situation, they’re doing remarkably well.

It’s still very, very difficult, very tough. Nobody should underestimate the extent to which we’re engaged there with this sort of, at present, the “major front” of the war on terror. That’s what Osama bin Laden says, and he’s right.
http://websrvr80il.audiov(...)/2006/cheneyrush.mp4

Echt wel.
pi_42762928
quote:
Op zondag 15 oktober 2006 01:12 schreef StefanP het volgende:
Een grote blokkade om de oliebronnen heen, de pijpleidingen diep ondergrond leggen. Behalve de bronnen hoeft de VS dan niets meer de beschermen, laat de rest het maar uitzoeken
Nou, die Koeweities lachen zich nu de ballen uit de broek .... eeuh ... jurk.... ervan uitgaande dat Koeweities ballen hebben, wat zeer de vraag is. Anyway, dat gaf al gelazer ten tijde van Saddam, de Koeweities en Iraqi's delen één olieveld, en Iraq beschuldigde destijds Koeweit er al van teveel olie weg te zuigen. Nu zullen de Koeweities ongetwijfeld nieuwe oliebronnen met een hoek van 45 graden aanboren
  donderdag 19 oktober 2006 @ 02:01:42 #91
21551 tvlxd
kerngeleerde
pi_42794031
quote:
"If we were to leave before the job is done, in my judgment, the al Qaeda would find a safe haven from which to attack. This is exactly what they said," Bush said.
Goh, echt? Ze zeggen ook dat de Amerikanen duizenden slachtoffers te verduren hebben per maand. Lul.
kern·ge·leer·de (de ~ (m.))
1 kernfysicus
  donderdag 19 oktober 2006 @ 02:11:00 #92
21551 tvlxd
kerngeleerde
pi_42794128
quote:
But in a sign of the growing sense of urgency, a member of a high-powered government advisory body that is developing options to prevent Iraq's chaotic collapse warns that the United States could have just weeks, not months, to avoid an all-out civil war.
[ bron ]
quote:
Dozens of al Qaeda-linked gunmen took to the streets of Ramadi on Wednesday in a show of force to announce the city was joining an Islamic state comprising Iraq's mostly Sunni Arab provinces, Islamists and witnesses said.

Witnesses in Ramadi, the capital of western Anbar province, said gunmen dressed in white marched through the city as mosque loudspeakers broadcast the statement by the Mujahideen Shura Council, a Sunni militant group led by al Qaeda in Iraq.

"We are from Mujahideen Shura Council and our Amir (Prince) is Abu Omar al-Baghdadi. God willing we will set the law of Sharia here and we will fight the Americans," said a man who identified himself as Abu Harith, a Mujahideen field leader.
[ bron ]



Hahahahahahaha.
hhaha.
Hahaha.
kern·ge·leer·de (de ~ (m.))
1 kernfysicus
pi_42839074
quote:
Down the River

Riverbend posted today for the first time since early August. As she explains: "Every time I felt the urge to write about Iraq, about the situation, I'd be filled with a certain hopelessness that can't be put into words and that I suspect other Iraqis feel also."

There is no way I can even begin to comprehend what it must feel like to be an Iraqi right now -- much less an intelligent, educated, secular woman stuck in the middle of a slow-motion genocide. But I do know what a "certain hopelessness" feels like, or at least I think I do. It's what I feel every time I think about how we came to this point.

Riverbend's topic is the Lancet study on war deaths in Iraq, and she curtly eviscerates the conservative Holocaust deniers:

We literally do not know a single Iraqi family that has not seen the violent death of a first or second-degree relative these last three years. Abductions, militias, sectarian violence, revenge killings, assassinations, car-bombs, suicide bombers, American military strikes, Iraqi military raids, death squads, extremists, armed robberies, executions, detentions, secret prisons, torture, mysterious weapons -- with so many different ways to die, is the number so far fetched?

Nor does she have any kind words for any of the rest of us here in God Bless America, whether on the left or the right, who posture and bloviate while her country dies a slow, agonizing death:

They write about and discuss Iraq as I might write about the Ivory Coast or Cambodia -- with a detachment and lack of sentiment that, I suppose, is meant to be impartial. Hearing American politicians is even worse: They fall between idiots like Bush -- constantly and totally in denial, and opportunists who want to use the war and ensuing chaos to promote themselves.

That last one hits too close to home. A bulls eye, in fact. I've probably been as guilty as anyone of thinking of the war as some sort of strategy game, or a domestic political issue or a fascinating, if bloody, story -- a news junkie's next fix. When you're 8,000 miles and an existential light year away from the war, it's easy to distance yourself, intellectually and emotionally, from the stench of blood and the bloated corpses.

There's also a natural tendency, which I touched on yesterday, to make it all about us -- to consciously or unconsciously treat the Iraqis like extras (or worse, bloody mannequins) in a Mad Max remake produced and directed by Americans.

I'll also admit that I've become progressively less attentive -- not more -- as the death toll has climbed and we've been subjected to dispatches such as this:

The bloodletting there was touched off Friday by the kidnapping and beheading of 17 Shiite laborers working in date-palm groves in Duluiyah. Shiite leaders in the neighboring town said Saturday they asked militias of powerful Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr to come from Baghdad to strike back and take revenge. Shiite militias poured into the area, and Balad hospital workers said the bodies of 27 Sunnis had been brought to the hospital by Saturday night, all of them shot to death and bearing holes from electric drills and other signs of torture.

Everything I dreaded has come to pass -- for the Iraqis, if not for us.

The point deserves frequent repetition: We did this. We caused it. We're not just callous bystanders to genocide, as in Rwanda, but the active ingredient that made it possible. We turned Iraq into a happy hunting ground for Al Qaeda and the Mahdi Army. If Iraq is now a failed state, it's because of our failures.

But one can fully accept America's moral and legal responsibility for unleashing this barbarism and still not have a clue as to what can or should be done to stop it. Would a U.S. military withdrawal reduce the bloodshed or worsen it? I don't know, and I think anyone who says they do know is either lying or as deluded as Bush. But my intuition tells me that either way, whether we stay or go, thousands more, maybe millions more, are going to die.

A certain hoplessness, you see.

For someone in my shoes, though, hopelessness can become an excuse for not thinking about unpleasant truths. But there was something about Riverbend's quiet despair that forced me to think hard about my own moral responsibility as an American for a genocide caused by America -- because of a war started in my name, paid for with my taxes.

I've opposed this war since it was just a malignant smirk on George Bush's face. I've spoken against it, written against it, marched against it, supported and contributed to politicians I generally despise because I thought (wrongly) that they might do something to stop it. It's why I took up blogging, why I started this blog.

But the question Riverbend has forced me to ask myself is: Did I do enough? And the only honest answer is no.

I opposed the invasion -- and the regime that launched it -- but I didn't do everything I could have done. Very few did. We may have put our words and our wallets on the line, but not our bodies. Not when it might have made a difference. In the end, we were all good little Germans.

My question to myself, in other words, is like Thoreau's famous question to Ralph Waldo Emerson when Emerson came to visit him in jail after he was arrested for not paying his poll tax as a protest against slavery:

Emerson: What are you doing in there, Henry?

Thoreau: No, Waldo, the question is: What are you doing out there?

It's easy to think up excuses now -- we were in the minority, the media was against us, the country was against us. We didn't know how bad it would be.

But we knew, or should have known, that what Bush was planning was an illegal act of aggression, based on a warmongering campaign of deception and ginned-up hysteria. And we knew, or should have known, what our moral and legal obligations were:

Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law.

We were all complicit. I was complicit. Because I was afraid -- afraid to sacrifice my comfortable middle class lifestyle, afraid to lose my job and my house, afraid of the IRS, afraid to go to jail.

But not nearly as afraid, of course, as the thousands of Iraqis who have been tortured or murdered, or who, like Riverbend, are forced to live in bloody chaos, day after day. Which is why, reading her post today, I couldn't help but feel deeply, bitterly ashamed -- not just of my country, but of myself.

I just hope that in the next life I don't run into Henry David Thoreau.
Posted by billmon at October 18, 2006 10:11 PM
http://billmon.org/archives/002843.html
pi_42842280
quote:
Shiite militia pushes for control of Iraqi city

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraqi authorities are deploying more troops and senior security officials to Amarah where at least 16 people have been killed and a notorious Shiite militia is said to have seized the restive southern city.

Two months ago, British troops transferred security control to the Iraqis in Amarah, the provincial capital of Maysan province, in the heart of the Shiite-dominated south and not far from the Iraq-Iran border.

A hospital official told CNN on Friday that 16 people were killed and 90 other people were wounded during clashes that erupted on Thursday between police and militia members
Witnesses and a hospital official told CNN that the Mehdi Army -- the militia of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr -- has seized control of the city.

Al-Sadr -- politically popular in Baghdad's Shiite districts and across southern Iraq -- has opposed the U.S. presence in the country and the forces loyal to him have battled U.S. troops. They also are thought to be in the thick of the Sunni-Shiite revenge killings plaguing the country.

Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki met al-Sadr and Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani in Najaf on Wednesday. The prime minister urged those Shiite leaders for help in quelling violence.

It is unclear whether al-Sadr is supportive of the militia's actions. Al-Sadr has denounced and warned against violence in recent days and there is evidence that many of his followers have spun off into autonomous groups.

An official with al-Maliki's office told CNN the prime minister sent an emergency security delegation to Amarah that included the Minister of State for Security Affairs Shirwan al-Waili and other senior officials from the Interior and Defense ministries.

An Interior Ministry spokesman told CNN that more troops from Iraq's police and army were being deployed to Amarah, and would be there soon to control the situation.

According to sources, the clashes were sparked after the Chief of Police Intelligence in Maysan province, Ali Qasim al-Tamimi, was killed in a bombing.

Police in Amarah said the al-Tamimi family accused the Mehdi militia of carrying out the killing, and a retaliatory move, al-Tamimi family members kidnapped the militia commander's brother, who was in the city, according to a security source.

CNN received a call from an Amarah resident at the time of fighting, who reported hearing what he called "a fierce gun battle" that he said was taking place in the center of the city.

One of the witnesses told CNN that he saw at least five burned vehicles of Iraqi police in the street.

British military spokesman, Major Charlie Burbridge, who spoke to CNN Friday, said two police stations were attacked on Thursday by 200 to 300 gunmen, identified as being "rogue militia elements."

On Friday the same two police stations again came under attack, and the police were unable to repel the attack and abandoned the stations. One of them is on fire.

He did not confirm that the Mehdi militia has taken over the city.

Witnesses said that at least 200 gunmen were seen in the city and most of a police station was taken over by Mehdi militia.

Burbridge said the Iraqi government had deployed two extra Iraqi Army companies, about 200 soldiers, and an Iraqi police battalion, about 300 additional police. The gunmen were eventually dispersed, he said.

British troops still have about 600 troops in Maysan province. But they had withdrawn from Amarah to concentrate their efforts in the eastern part of the province and deal with smuggling across the Iranian border.

The withdrawal occurred in August after British forces determined that Iraqi security forces were capable of handling "routine security patrols."

British troops do have a force on stand-by ready to enter the city should the Iraqi government request their help. .
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/20/iraq.sadr/index.html
quote:
'Zuid-Iraakse stad in handen sjiitische milities'

Uitgegeven: 20 oktober 2006 17:45
Laatst gewijzigd: 20 oktober 2006 17:45
AMARA - Gevechten tussen de politie en sjiitsche militieleden hebben vrijdag in de Zuid-Iraakse stad Amara aan zeker achttien mensen het leven gekost. Er zijn zeker honderd gewonden gevallen, meldden ooggetuigen.

De sjiieten zijn leden van het Mahdi Leger van de radicale geestelijke Moqtada al-Sadr. Honderden strijders vielen een politiebureau aan en raakten verwikkeld in zware vuurgevechten met agenten. Het gebouw ging later in vlammen op. Ook andere politiebureaus in de stad en een politieacademie moesten het ontgelden.

Aanleiding voor de aanval zou de arrestatie zijn van een broer van een plaatselijke commandant van de sjiitische militie. De man zou verantwoordelijk zijn voor een aanslag waarbij enkele dagen geleden een hoge politiecommandant omkwam.

Gevallen

Volgens de Amerikaanse nieuwszender CNN zouden de troepen van al-Sadr de stad controleren, maar de Iraakse minister van Nationale Veiligheid heeft spreekt dat tegen. Wel erkende minister Shirwan al-Waeli dat de situatie ernstig is. Ongeveer zevenhonderd Iraakse militairen zijn naar de stad gestuurd om de politie bij te staan.

Ook heeft de regering een onderhandelingsdelegatie naar Amara gezonden.

Het Britse ministerie van Defensie meldde vrijdag dat Britse troepen die in het zuiden van Irak zijn gelegerd "klaarstaan" om de Iraakse politie te helpen. Britse troepen patrouilleerden tot enkele maanden geleden in de stad, maar hebben in augustus hun taken overgedragen aan de politie.
http://www.nu.nl/news/856(...)che_milities%27.html
The word is the word of the sword, Until the wrongs are righted
pi_42872656
quote:
Oct. toll at 78 for U.S. troops in Iraq

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Three U.S. Marines were killed in combat Saturday in Anbar province, the military said, making October the deadliest month for American forces in Iraq this year. The deaths raised the October toll to 78, surpassing the previous high figure of 76 in April and making October — with more than a week left — on course to be the deadliest month for American service members in two years.

Also Saturday, a dozen mortars rained down on an outdoor market crowded with holiday shoppers, killing at least 18 people in a Shiite-dominated city that was the scene of a deadly market assault earlier this year, police said.

The mortar attack in Mahmoudiyah came soon after bombs hidden in plastic bags left on five bicycles ripped through the market, which was crowded with shoppers ahead of the upcoming Eid al-Fitr holiday, said police Lt. Hayder Satar. Such dual attacks are frequently employed by armed groups to inflict additional damage on crowds that form after the initial bombing.

Satar said at least 18 people were killed and 52 injured in the attack on the city about 20 miles south of Baghdad. Mahmoudiyah, a primarily Shiite Muslim city surrounded by rival Sunni communities, was the scene in July of one of the worst assaults on civilians in recent months when suspected Sunni gunmen sprayed grenades and automatic weapons fire in a market, killing at least 50 people, mostly Shiites.

Earlier, gunfights broke out in Hamza al-Gharbi, about 60 miles south of Baghdad, after a bomb exploded near the offices of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a leading Shiite political party that sponsors the Badr Brigades militia.

The party's supporters accused members of the Madhi Army headed by the radical anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr of being behind the blast, Police Capt. Muthana Khalid Ali said. He said Iraqi army and police called for reinforcements and backup from American forces, who imposed a curfew. There was no immediate confirmation of U.S. involvement from a military spokesmen.
pi_42877819
wat een klerezooi, werkelijk fantastisch, en als ik het goed heb begrepen draaien ondanks alles de Iraakse legkippetjes overuren, en weten ondanks alles een flinke bevolkingsgroei te realiseren.
  † In Memoriam † zondag 22 oktober 2006 @ 07:38:27 #97
21290 NorthernStar
Insurgent
pi_42879576
Bush accepts Iraq-Vietnam war comparison

"The escalating violence in Iraq could be compared to the 1968 Tet offensive in Vietnam, which was a turning point in that war, the US president admitted last night."

Grappig dat hij hiermee komt. Ik weet er ook nog één. Het omslagpunt lag al voor het Tet offensief, toen de Vietcong Amerikaanse munitiedepots wist te raken.
Het is geen goed teken als je vijand zoveel controle over het terrein heeft dat het je munitiedepots kan raken. Falcon Base -> Boem!


Gelukkig dat er geen doden bij zijn gevallen (volgens het Pentagon)

Of wel? Forward Base Falcon Disaster

"Not only has the U.S. military machine lost much of its armor and transport, and its entire reserves of ammunition and special fuel, but the casualty list for only the first day is over 300.. "

Maar goed, dat is *kuch* conspiracy en niet meer gewenst in NWS dus ajuus.
quote:
Op zondag 22 oktober 2006 01:51 schreef Godslasteraar het volgende:
wat een klerezooi, werkelijk fantastisch, en als ik het goed heb begrepen draaien ondanks alles de Iraakse legkippetjes overuren, en weten ondanks alles een flinke bevolkingsgroei te realiseren.
Worden ze nog steeds niet snel genoeg uitgeroeid?

Can We Call It Genocide Now?

When does "collateral damage" so dwarf combatant deaths that war becomes genocide?

[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door NorthernStar op 22-10-2006 07:45:23 ]
pi_42897191
quote:
Blasts kill 5 in Baghdad market, bakery

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Bombs ripped through a Baghdad market and a bakery on Sunday as shoppers were stocking up on sweets and other delicacies to celebrate a major Muslim holiday, and at least five people were killed, police said.

The carnage in the Shurja wholesale market, Baghdad's oldest and largest, was the second time in two days that open-air shopping places have been targeted.

On Saturday, at least 19 people were killed and scores were wounded in a bomb and mortar attack on a market in Mahmoudiyah, just south of the capital.

Iraq's main Sunni political bloc, the Iraqi Islamic Party, issued a statement Sunday blaming the Mahdi Army for provoking the violence in that city, 20 miles south of Baghdad.

"We call upon the people of Mahmoudiyah to stay calm in this holy month of Ramadan and not to give others an opportunity," Alaa Makki, a leading party member, said at a news conference in Baghdad.

Iraq has seen a surge in deaths during the Muslim holy fasting month of Ramadan, which ends on Sunday for Sunnis. So far this month, an average of about 43 Iraqis have died each day, according to an Associated Press count. That compares to an average daily death toll of about 27 since April 2005.

The count is based on AP reporting and includes civilians, government officials and police and security forces. The actual number is likely higher, as many killings go unreported. The
United Nations estimates about 100 Iraqi civilians are killed each day.

October is also on course to be the deadliest month for American service members in two years, a development U.S. officials have blamed in part on the increased vulnerability of American forces during a major two-month security sweep in Baghdad. Two more U.S. troops were killed in fighting, the military said Sunday, raising the death toll in October to 80 and surpassing the year's previous monthly high of 76 in April.

Meanwhile, U.S. officials sought to play down an unusually candid assessment of the security situation made by a senior U.S. State Department official in an interview Saturday with the pan-Arab satellite channel Al-Jazeera. Alberto Fernandez, director of public diplomacy in the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, said the U.S. had shown "arrogance" and "stupidity" in Iraq, but added that Washington was ready to talk with any Iraqi group except al-Qaida in Iraq to facilitate national reconciliation.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters that Fernandez afterward said he didn't think reports of his comments were an "accurate reflection of what he said." Asked whether the Bush administration believed that history will show a record of arrogance or stupidity in Iraq, McCormack replied "No."

A senior Bush administration official questioned whether the remarks had been translated correctly.

"Those comments obviously don't reflect our position," said the official, who asked not to be identified because a transcript was not then available for review.

Fernandez spoke in fluent Arabic in the interview, which Al-Jazeera said was taped in Washington on Friday. His remarks were translated into English by The Associated Press.

President Bush reviewed Iraq strategy with top war commanders and national security advisers on Friday and Saturday, but indicated little inclination for major changes to an increasingly divisive policy.

"Our goal in Iraq is clear and unchanging: Our goal is victory," Bush said in his weekly radio address Saturday. "What is changing are the tactics we use to achieve that goal."

The White House is under heavy bipartisan, pre-election pressure for a significant re-examination of the president's war plan.

Ahead of the three-day Muslim feasting holiday Eid el-Fitr, which begins Monday and marks the end of Ramadan, Baghdad's Shurja market was especially packed with families shopping for food, clothing and household items.

Three people were killed and eight wounded in an initial bombing, while a second explosion 30 minutes later injured six more, police Lt. Ali Abbas said.

Another bomb hidden beneath a car killed two people and wounded 10 lined up outside the al-Farasha pastry and sweet shop in Baghdad's eastern New Baghdad neighborhood at 11:45 a.m., police Capt. Mohammed Abdul-Ghani said.

About five minutes later, a mortar round crashed into a restaurant about 220 yards away, injuring two civilians and causing extensive damage to the eatery and nearby shops, Abdul-Ghani said.

At least 15 people were killed in other violence around Iraq, including nine dead in clashes between rival Shiite and Sunni tribes south of the capital.

The clashes broke out Saturday night between the Shiite Kufeifan tribe and their Sunni Juheishat rivals in Shujeiriya, apparently over the Juheishat's support for the establishment of a separate Islamic state in the surrounding province.

The bullet-riddled bodies of two men also were found dumped in Baghdad's Baladiate neighborhood, police Capt. Mohamed Abdul-Ghani said. The men had been bound and blindfolded and showed signs of torture, making them the likely victims of sectarian death squads.
pi_42897721
quote:
Diplomat Cites U.S. 'Stupidity' in Iraq

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- A senior U.S. diplomat said the United States had shown ''arrogance'' and ''stupidity'' in Iraq but was now ready to talk with any group except Al-Qaida in Iraq to facilitate national reconciliation.

In an interview with Al-Jazeera television aired late Saturday, Alberto Fernandez, director of public diplomacy in the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs at the State Department offered an unusually candid assessment of America's war in Iraq.

''We tried to do our best but I think there is much room for criticism because, undoubtedly, there was arrogance and there was stupidity from the United States in Iraq,'' he said.

''We are open to dialogue because we all know that, at the end of the day, the solution to the hell and the killings in Iraq is linked to an effective Iraqi national reconciliation,'' he said, speaking in Arabic from Washington. ''The Iraqi government is convinced of this.''

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack, in Moscow with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, later said that Fernandez disputes the description of his comments.
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