De 'Priorij van Sion' hoax

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Op woensdag 24 mei 2006 13:57 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

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Alsof het concept hoax jou volkomen vreemd is... .

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Op woensdag 24 mei 2006 14:08 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

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Hoi. .
Ehm als het maar over complotdenken gaat hè.

Maar heb je dat stuk gelezen, waarin de connectie wordt beschreven waarover ik het gister ook al had? Dus dit verhaal en al die bull van Jim Marss, David Icke etc. En ja, ik durf die stelling ook wel aan ivm 9/11 eigenlijk. 9/11 complotteurs referen op z'n minst aan het verhaal van de Grote Samenzwering. Niet allen, wel veel, vooral als ze het hebben over de reden waarom. Wat overigens onverlet laat dat een skeptische houding altijd op z'n plaats is, dus ook wb 9/11.

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Ik was er iig niet van op de hoogte dat 1 en ander, en dus ook de materie die Dan Brown aansnijdt in de Da Vinci Code, allang vastgesteld was als hoax.

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Grappige is natuurlijk dat dit onder scholars allang bekend was, bleek ook uit de docu: die halen lachend hun schouders op,

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Dat laatste klopt idd, alleen andersom. .

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Forgive me for a little indulgence here but I do not know where else to put this counter argument.

The net is now full of websites exposing the Prieure du Sion, Plantard, de Cherisey and Sauniere as fakes and that there's nothing in the story.

Allow me to simply argue against this on here as most of the anti-Prieure du Sion sites do not offer any means of rebuttal. I know that quite a few people on here are interested in this mystery still.

A typical argument against can be found here. The arguments against can be found at the bottom of the page.

Here are the arguments usually made against and are typical:


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Sources and Documents Exposed


Royal Blood?

TThe confusion of "Holy Grail" le saint graal as Sang réal' or "royal blood" originated with Sir Thomas Malory's misspelling in his Le Morte D'Arthur (15th C). There is no valid etymological basis for Baigent, Leigh & Lincoln's contention that "holy grail" means "holy blood".

Confusion Over the Parchments

According to Antoine Captier, a resident of Rennes-le-Château, his great-grandfather, who been Saunière's bell ringer, made the original find in a stone alter pillar where the top had come off. What the bell ringer discovered protruding from the pillar was not four parchments, however, but a glass vial with a scrap of paper rolled up inside. Now on display in the Saunière museum at Rennes-le-Château, the stone pillar does have a small recess set into it, but it is much too small to have held the parchments. There is a secret cavity with a sliding panel in a second column in the museum, but this is a baluster made of solid oak not of stone. It is in this column, according to the museum, that the glass vial was actually found. The actual contents of the paper inside the vial were never disclosed by Saunière.

Saunière's Trip to Paris

Saunière supposedly visited Paris for five days in March, 1892 to follow-up his discovery. While there, he was said to have celebrated Mass at St. Sulpice. It was also on this trip that the authors of The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail allege that Saunière acquired a reproduction of Poussin's painting (along with the two others). The Louvre, however, records that no copies were made of "Les Bergers D'Arcadie" before 1901.
"In fact there is no evidence that Saunière ever visited St. Sulpice or celebrated Mass there, according to a letter from the seminary's archivist....What's more, most art historians [like Martin Kemp, Professor of Art History, Oxford University] reject the whole idea of occult geometry in Poussin's paintings."
- "The History of a Mystery", TimeWatch, BBC (1996)

Saunière's Wealth

"But Saunière did have his own secret: he traded in saying private Masses, advertising his services throughout France and abroad, far beyond the official limit of three per day. His fees amounted to thousands of francs, representing so many Masses that he never caught up with a huge backlog. He was called to account by the Bishop of Carcassonne and suspended, but by that time his church had been restored and his presbytery and tower had been built out of his illicit earnings."
Saunière's presbytery, library, "an unusual circular tower of dressed stone, with a spectacular view over the surrounding countryside...and the now very overgrown garden between them indicated a man of fairly solid means rather than fabulous wealth."
According to Abbé Quatrefages, a well-known church archaeologist, Saunière quite unwittingly "discovered two or three tombs underneath his church while the altar was being renewed. They contained a few jewels [a Visigoth necklace and bracelet and some old coins], a gold chalice of no great antiquity [14th C?]. He gave most away, to his housekeeper and colleagues, whose descendants still have them. No coded parchments. The hollow pillar in which the legend-merchants claim he found them is rock-solid. No secrets about the decoration of his church. Most of the items came from church suppliers' catalogues and can be found throughout France."
- Christopher Campbell-Howes, "Rennes le Château Revisited"

The Mystery of the Tomb

Many years after his discovery, Saunière reportedly destroyed the tomb (which consisted of a headstone and horizontal grave marker) bearing the mysterious inscription so that others would not follow the same lead. Although the tomb was identified in Gerard de Sede's L'Or de Rennes-le-Château as belonging to the Lady of Blanchfort, Saunière himself never revealed whose tomb it was.
"The headstone is quite well documented; a drawing of it was made by the Society for Scientific Studies of the Ande during a field trip to the area in 1905 and printed, with a report on the trip, in the Society's journal."
- Richard Andrews and Paul Schellenberger, The Tomb of God (1996) p. 231
L'Or de Rennes-le-Château (which Gerard de Sede produced in collaboration with Plantard) cited Eugene Stublein's Engraved Stones of the Languedoc as the source of the two drawings of the grave. Stublein was noted for an illustrated travel guide to thermal baths in the region, called Établissements Thermal. The signatures on the drawings in Engraved Stones of the Languedoc do not match those in the travel guide, however, and the drawings of the tomb have been declared forgeries. Andrews and Schellenberger dismiss this criticism by stating that the drawings are not central to their thesis since there also the proofs in the paintings and parchments. Besides, they add, the forgers themselves could have been members of the Prieure de Sion and privy to real secrets.
Origins of the Prieure du Sion
Plantard previously had established a pro-Vichy organisation called Alpha Galantes, dedicated to renewing France through the principles of chivalry, and had appointed himself Grand Master. The Prieure de Sion was an association with a similar agenda.
"...This mysterious secret society brought itself to light in 1956, and is listed with the French directory of organizations under the subtitle 'Chivalry of Catholic Rules and Institutions of the Independent and Traditionalist Union', which in French abbreviates to CIRCUIT - the name of the magazine distributed internally among members."
- Steve Mizrach, "The Mysteries of Rennes-le-Château and the Prieure du Sion"
Although an Order of Sion did exist in the Middle Ages, there is no historical evidence that Plantard's association is descended from it.
"In fact the orders and the charters record an abbey of Sion, but never a priory."
- "The History of a Mystery", TimeWatch, BBC (1996)
"...In documents dating from 1619, it [the Order of Sion] was stated to have incurred the displeasure of King Louis XIII of France, who evicted them from their seat at Orleans and turned the premises over to the Jesuits. After that, the Prieure de Sion [the Order of Sion] seemed to vanish from the historical record, at least under that name, until 1956, when it appeared again, registered in the French Journal officiel."
- Baigent, Leigh & Lincoln, The Messianic Legacy
Plantard registered the Prieure de Sion in St. Julien. There he drew the name for his order from nearby Mont Sion, not the ancient abbey. Andrews and Schellenberger write that the original Order de Sion apparently had a secondary title "The Order of the Rose Cross Veritas" and linked it with the Rosicrucian movement in the seventeenth century. The original Order of Sion, however, had disappeared from history.
- "The History of a Mystery", TimeWatch, BBC (1996)

Plantard's Genealogy

Plantard presented a genealogy which showed that the Merovingian king, Dagobert, was a direct ancestor of his, convincing both de Sede and Henry Lincoln.
"In fact Plantard's royal lineage rests on another forgery. His name was inserted into a genealogy copied word for word from a popular history magazine. His real ancestor was a 16th century peasant who grew walnuts."
- "The History of a Mystery", TimeWatch, BBC (1996)
Although Plantard cannot legitimately claim to be the heir to the throne of France, he was assisted in his endeavors by a real, although dissolute, aristocrat the Marquis Phillipe de Cherissy. It was he, along with Plantard, who deposited the Dossiers Secrets into the Bibliotheque Nationale according to library records. Eventually Plantard, de Cherissy and Gerard de Sede had a falling out over money.

The Secret Behind the Codes

"After their quarrel Plantard made it known that the parchments in de Sede's book were fakes. In 1971 I received a letter from Phillipe de Cherissy implying that he was the author of the two parchments published by Gerard de Sede."
"Plantard trusted me because I was writing a book about him and he gave me the original documents."
- Pierre Jarnac, author of The Archives of the Treasure of Rennes-le-Château
Jarnac produced the documents for the BBC camera. A note on Parchment 1 in Plantard's handwriting stated "This is the original document faked by Phillipe de Cherissy which Gerard de Sede reproduced in his book L'Or de Rennes-le-Château."
In a forty-four page unpublished paper called "Stone and Paper" de Cherissy "describes how the documents were fabricated, how the ciphers were set and how they can be decoded."
- Pierre Jarnac, author of The Archives of the Treasure of Rennes-le-Château

According to the "Stone and Paper" the solution for the ciphers in Parchment 2 is as follows:

681 - The year King Dagbert was killed

SHEPHERDESS - From a local legend about a shepherd who falls down a hole and finds a pot of gold

POUSSIN
A play on words: poussin - "chicken" in French and "Hautpoul" - "big chicken"
(Referring to the Hautpoul-Blancheforts of Rennes-le-Château.)

LA CROIX
The cross by the railway line north of Alet-les-Bains
(the only agreement with Andrews and Schellenberger)

CHEVAL DE DIEU
Not "horse of God" but a reference to the "cabal" of de Cherissy

BLUE APPLES
Masonic in-joke - from "a rambling document full of puns and anagrams by a man who calls himself the Prankster"


Let me argue against the above one at a time:

Royal Blood?

This is a mere opinion not backed up by any known facts. Belief in this has to go in the face of the following statement:


Here is the Book of thy Descent,
Here begins the Book of the Sangreal,
Here begin the terrors,
Here begin the miracles.

From one of the Grail romances called the 'Perlevaus'


So according to the above BOTH Mallory and an anonymous author from 1120 made precisely the same mistake.

Confusion Over the Parchments

Captier was the Bell-ringer and the story is that he noticed a Stone Pillar holding up the altar that was cracked. Unless they're saying that the altar strangely was only held up by ONE pillar then there must be another one. We have only one. The argument is at best weak.

Saunière's Trip to Paris

What they aren't telling you here is that the Louvre didn't keep ANY records before 1900. Not only wasn't Sauniere on record as having copied Les Bergers d'Arcadie but NOBODY was on record.

"In fact there is no evidence that Saunière ever visited St. Sulpice or celebrated Mass there, according to a letter from the seminary's archivist....What's more, most art historians [like Martin Kemp, Professor of Art History, Oxford University] reject the whole idea of occult geometry in Poussin's paintings."
- "The History of a Mystery", TimeWatch, BBC (1996)

Other than this, currently in the Rennes le Chateau garden under the statue of Mary Magdalene and what is now a fibre glass copy of the 'MISSION 1891' pillar.

[image]http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/citizenkane/images/OMARIE2.jpg[/image]

It's the symbol for the Society of Saint Sulpice read about them here. They train young priests, Sauniere was a member. So summing up, Sauniere was a member of the Society of Saint Sulpice but never visited their headquarters whilst in Paris, Hmm!!!

The occult geometry is there in the picture and staring everyone in the face and attempts to deny this merely makes fools out of the denialists.

Saunière's Wealth

This is the stupidist argument the anti-Prieure du Sion protagonists put out.

The Rennes le Chateau museum have Sauniere's bills and receipts from that era. Even leaving out Sauniere's huge construction bills his 'Traffiking in Masses' would barely cover his bread bill. It seems he bought bread for the whole village.

This was 1914-1917, everyone had sons, fathers and brothers dying in the trenches. Just about every priest was traffiking in Masses during this period .

Sorry but the figures just don't add up.

The Mystery of the Tomb

I have never understood how these can be declared forgeries. Surely you have to have an original to compare things with. There is no known copy of Stublien's 'Les pierres gravées du Languedoc' in existence so how can it be compared. The detractors say that this book has never existed because it isn't registered and therefore it must be fake. What they fail to tell you is that Boudet's book 'La Vraie Langue Celtique' isn't registered either but clearly does exist. The non-match of the signatures does not invalidate it but merely suggests that Stublien may not have been the author and anyone could have appended their signature in the intervening years.

The phrase 'Prae Cum' on the tomb gives it some credence as this phrase is known to have existed on the 'Dalle du Combe Sourde' which existed in the 1930's.

A Stublien family tomb exists at Alet les Bains, close to Rennes le Chateau.

Origins of the Prieure du Sion

The first myth to be exposed here is that Plantard only ever admitted not being a direct descendant of the Merovingians he has never admitted that the Prieure du Sion has not been a significant Secret Society.

However in the Messianic Legacy a researcher for Lincoln et al said that one of the interviewees for the book had said to her that Cochteau changed to society in 1955 to the Prieure du Sion from the Order of Sion. The reason was to come out into the open and make the Prieure du Sion merely a society with secrets rather than a secret society. Apparantly this change caused a schism to develop.

Plantard's Genealogy

Plantard's father apparantly had the 'Saint Clair' part of the family name removed from the family documents during the German Occupation. The Saint Clair family do have links to this bloodline. To follow only the Plantard part of his family tree may well reveal him to be only a descendant of a farmer who grew walnuts. He may also have been a front.

The Secret Behind the Codes

De Cherisey could not have written the second parchment (Berger pas de tentation......etc) as he didn't know how to decode it correctly. The code was written using a 25 letter alphabet. Neither De Cherisey nor Jean Luc Chaumiel knew this. How could he have written it if he didn't know how to decode it?

Not only that but in the document held by Jean Luc Chaumiel called Stone and Paper which supposedly details how de Cherisey encoded the parchments, it never mentions the quite obvious fact that the tombstone is a direct anagram of the 'Bergers pas de tentation...etc. How could he not include this very salient fact? Why? Because he didn't know that's why.

The Stone and Paper so-called solution

It's most likely the notes of De Cherisey's attempts to decode the message.

681?

Could be Dagoberts' death but more likely Pope Agatho who also died in 681, he was apparantly 100 years old.

SHEPHERDESS
"From a local legend about a shepherd who falls down a hole and finds a pot of gold"

Hogwash! For a start this was a Shepherd not a Shepherdess. It doesn't explain the popularity of the Arcadia theme nor the tomb at Les Pontils.

POUSSIN
A play on words: poussin - "chicken" in French and "Hautpoul" - "big chicken"
(Referring to the Hautpoul-Blancheforts of Rennes-le-Château.)

The Lady Hautpoul is a documented fact she did indeed live at Rennes le Chateau. This lie is incredible, whoever thought that one up isn't very bright.

LA CROIX
The cross by the railway line north of Alet-les-Bains
(the only agreement with Andrews and Schellenberger)

Another incredible statement. Anyone who's ever been to the Rennes le Chateau area will tell you that these crosses are everywhere. BY THE CROSS will narrow it down to several hundred.

This refers to DELACROIX the painter who has three paintings in the Church of Saint Sulpice.

CHEVAL DE DIEU
Not "horse of God" but a reference to the "cabal" of de Cherissy

This is more like Horsefeathers than House of God.

One of DELACROIX's paintings in Saint Sulpice has 'The House of God' in it.

BLUE APPLES
Masonic in-joke - from "a rambling document full of puns and anagrams by a man who calls himself the Prankster"

This has all come from Chaumiel who continually strikes me as not being a full shilling.

The Church of Saint Sulpice USED TO HAVE a 'Blue Apples' display that hit the Rose line.

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Op woensdag 24 mei 2006 15:56 schreef huupia34 het volgende:
heb die docu op belgie ook gezien, erg interessant . temeer omdat ik ook het boek "de tombe van god" heb gelezen wat over dezelfde materie gaat als "heiliog bloed, heilige graal"

was die presentator niet dat hulpje van rowan atkinson in blackadder, zoja , dan is dit niet erg geloofwaardig.

de hele docu staat trouwens of valt bij de geloofwaardigheid van de bekentenis van de heren dat ze een hoax hebben verzonnen.

het kan dus ook nog zijn dat plantard gewoon rust in de tent wilde , en daarom heeft gezegd dat het een hoax is.

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Ik denk dat het bewijs van de forgery verder onderzocht dient te worden.

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Is er voor Plantard ook maar iets over de Priorij te vinden? Nee dus.