abonnement Unibet Coolblue Bitvavo
  zaterdag 14 mei 2005 @ 23:45:36 #176
45622 merlin693
Huh ! Asmodeus & me
  zondag 15 mei 2005 @ 00:25:36 #177
93076 BaajGuardian
De echte BG, die tof is.
pi_27016587
ik luister dat nummer op repeat , , hulde
Vraag yvonne maar hoe tof ik ben, die gaf mij er ooit een tagje voor.
  zondag 15 mei 2005 @ 01:12:30 #178
101385 Thief
Kleptoman
pi_27017464
eigenlijk willen jullie bewijzen dat 911 dus gepland was door bush&co.. maar waarvoor dan? geld?
  zondag 15 mei 2005 @ 03:53:05 #179
103219 OpenYourMind
Question Everything
pi_27019689
quote:
Op zondag 15 mei 2005 01:12 schreef Thief het volgende:
eigenlijk willen jullie bewijzen dat 911 dus gepland was door bush&co.. maar waarvoor dan? geld?
Consensus, creeeren van een nieuwe vijand, de macht over het volk, strategische belangen, power politics en geopolitiek, veiligstellen van het midden oosten, reden om Saddam af te zetten, tegenwicht te kunnen bieden tegen Rusland en China... etc.
"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed - if all records told the same tale - then the lie passed into history and became truth. Who controls the past controls the future, who controls the present controls the past."
pi_27327615
* kick *

Enkele documentaires over het wtc beweren dat staalconstructies door brand niet kunnen instorten.. Dat kan dus wel, al was het bij het wtc veels te vroeg..
Maar er is een verschil tussen een gebouw waar brand uitbreekt, en een gebouw waar een vliegtuig met een gruwelijke lading kerosine in explodeert..

Richting Alex Jones ben ik dus érg sceptisch, omdat ie niet genoeg onderzoek heeft gedaan..
quote:
Brandweerstand van kolommen

Kolommen hebben geen scheidende functie, hun enige functie is dragend. Hun brandweerstand wordt dan ook aan dit ene criterium beoordeeld. Sinds het begin van de twintigste eeuw wordt vaak geopteerd voor stalen kolommen. Dergelijke kolommen hebben een groot draagvermogen, zijn relatief goedkoop en nemen weinig plaatsruimte in beslag. Helaas is de brandweerstand van die kolommen erg beperkt. Bij een hevige brand wordt het staal zeer snel zo warm, dat het zijn mechanische weerstand verliest. (Iedereen kent het beeld van verwrongen stalen liggers na een zware brand.)

In gebouwen met meerdere verdiepingen moet het staal dan ook met een vuurvaste, thermisch isolerende laag beschermd worden. De eenvoudigste (en allicht ook goedkoopste) manier om een stalen kolom te beschermen is er een muur in baksteen omheen te metselen.

In het verleden heeft men stalen kolommen in gebouwen vaak omhuld met een pleister op basis van asbestvezels. Dat leek eveneens eenvoudig, maar deze techniek is totaal in onbruik sinds de gevaren van asbest voor de menselijke gezondheid bekend zijn geworden.

Dat de brandweerstand van stalen kolommen een zeer belangrijke factor is, heeft de hele wereld op 11 september 2001 "live" op tv kunnen zien. In beide torens van het WTC is, als gevolg van een vliegtuigcrash, brand uitgebroken op de bovenste verdiepingen. De branden waren, mede door de grote hoeveelheid vliegtuigkerosine, zeer hevig en beide torens zijn na ongeveer anderhalf uur verticaal in elkaar gezakt. Dat was, gezien de grootte van de gebouwen, veel te vroeg. Wellicht zijn de gipsplaten die als brandwerende bekleding rond de stalen kolommen waren aangebracht, door de schok bij de inslag van de vliegtuigen verbrijzeld zodat ze hun beschermende functie niet konden vervullen.

bron: http://www.baksteen.be/Ve(...)s-reac-resis-feu.htm
pi_27340044
Ik wil nou niet oubollig doen maar jouw laatste zin begint ook met "wellicht" ...

Iedereen gist maar blijkbaar.
I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear to me now. The whole thing. It's wonderful.
pi_27340277
quote:
Op woensdag 25 mei 2005 14:32 schreef UncleScorp het volgende:
Ik wil nou niet oubollig doen maar jouw laatste zin begint ook met "wellicht" ...

Iedereen gist maar blijkbaar.
Ik denk niet het woord "wellicht" wordt gebruikt met als doel te gokken, maar als verklaring voor wat er plaats zou kunnen hebben gevonden, gezien de omstandigheden. Dat is dus niet hetzelfde als het woord wellicht gebruiken als gissen, iets wat jij lijkt te impliceren met je post.
Vanzelfsprekend lijkt mij de insteek in dat verhaal dan ook een niet complot-theorie-achtige. In dat geval zouden we moeten bekijken wat voor materiaal om het staal zat, en wat dat materiaal doet bij impacts van dergelijke vliegtuigen.
  woensdag 25 mei 2005 @ 15:08:49 #183
102127 Hallulama
Energy Must Flow
pi_27341441
Het spijt me, t'is een enorme lap tekst, een belachelijke lap tekst zelfs, ik moet er zelf nog even van bijkomen.

115 punten, weglatingen en onvolkomenheden betreffende het officiele 9/11 rapport, volgens Dr. David Ray Griffin.

Het volledige stuk tekst (The 9/11 Commission Report: A 571-Page Lie) is te vinden op: http://www.septembereleve(...)5-05-22-571pglie.php

---

1. The omission of evidence that at least six of the alleged hijackers---including Waleed al-Shehri, said by the Commission probably to have stabbed a flight attendant on Flight 11 before it crashed into the North Tower of the WTC---are still alive (19-20).

2. The omission of evidence about Mohamed Atta---such as his reported fondness for alcohol, pork, and lap dances---that is in tension with the Commission’s claim that he had become fanatically religious (20-21).

3. The obfuscation of the evidence that Hani Hanjour was too poor a pilot to have flown an airliner into the Pentagon (21-22).

4. The omission of the fact that the publicly released flight manifests contain no Arab names (23).

5. The omission of the fact that fire has never, before or after 9/11, caused steel-frame buildings to collapse (25).

6. The omission of the fact that the fires in the Twin Towers were not very big, very hot, or very long-lasting compared with fires in several steel-frame buildings that did not collapse (25-26).

7. The omission of the fact that, given the hypothesis that the collapses were caused by fire, the South Tower, which was struck later than the North Tower and also had smaller fires, should not have collapsed first (26).

8. The omission of the fact that WTC 7 (which was not hit by an airplane and which had only small, localized fires) also collapsed---an occurrence that FEMA admitted it could not explain (26).

9. The omission of the fact that the collapse of the Twin Towers (like that of Building 7) exemplified at least 10 features suggestive of controlled demolition (26-27).

10. The claim that the core of each of the Twin Towers was “a hollow steel shaft”---a claim that denied the existence of the 47 massive steel columns that in reality constituted the core of each tower and that, given the “pancake theory” of the collapses, should have still been sticking up many hundreds of feet in the air (27-28).

11. The omission of Larry Silverstein’s statement that he and the fire department commander decided to “pull” Building 7 (28).

12. The omission of the fact that the steel from the WTC buildings was quickly removed from the crime scene and shipped overseas before it could be analyzed for evidence of explosives (30).

13. The omission of the fact that because Building 7 had been evacuated before it collapsed, the official reason for the rapid removal of the steel---that some people might still be alive in the rubble under the steel---made no sense in this case (30).

14. The omission of Mayor Giuliani’s statement that he had received word that the World Trade Center was going to collapse (30-31).

15. The omission of the fact that President Bush’s brother Marvin and his cousin Wirt Walker III were both principals in the company in charge of security for the WTC (31-32).

16. The omission of the fact that the west wing of the Pentagon would have been the least likely spot to be targeted by al-Qaeda terrorists, for several reasons (33-34).

17. The omission of any discussion of whether the damage done to the Pentagon was consistent with the impact of a Boeing 757 going several hundred miles per hour (34).

18. The omission of the fact that there are photos showing that the west wing’s façade did not collapse until 30 minutes after the strike and also that the entrance hole appears too small for a Boeing 757 to have entered (34).

19. The omission of all testimony that has been used to cast doubt on whether remains of a Boeing 757 were visible either inside or outside the Pentagon (34-36).

20. The omission of any discussion of whether the Pentagon has a anti-missile defense system that would have brought down a commercial airliner---even though the Commission suggested that the al-Qaeda terrorists did not attack a nuclear power plant because they assumed that it would be thus defended (36).

21. The omission of the fact that pictures from various security cameras---including the camera at the gas station across from the Pentagon, the film from which was reportedly confiscated by the FBI immediately after the strike---could presumably answer the question of what really hit the Pentagon (37-38).

22. The omission of Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld’s reference to “the missile [used] to damage [the Pentagon]” (39).

23. The apparent endorsement of a wholly unsatisfactory answer to the question of why the Secret Service agents allowed President Bush to remain at the Sarasota school at a time when, given the official story, they should have assumed that a hijacked airliner might be about to crash into the school (41-44).

24. The failure to explore why the Secret Service did not summon fighter jets to provide air cover for Air Force One (43-46).

25. The claims that when the presidential party arrived at the school, no one in the party knew that several planes had been hijacked (47-48).

26. The omission of the report that Attorney General Ashcroft was warned to stop using commercial airlines prior to 9/11 (50).

27. The omission of David Schippers’ claim that he had, on the basis of information provided by FBI agents about upcoming attacks in lower Manhattan, tried unsuccessfully to convey this information to Attorney General Ashcroft during the six weeks prior to 9/11 (51).

28. The omission of any mention of the FBI agents who reportedly claimed to have known the targets and dates of the attacks well in advance (51-52).

29. The claim, by means of a circular, question-begging rebuttal, that the unusual purchases of put options prior to 9/11 did not imply advance knowledge of the attacks on the part of the buyers (52-57).

30. The omission of reports that both Mayor Willie Brown and some Pentagon officials received warnings about flying on 9/11 (57).

31. The omission of the report that Osama bin Laden, who already was America’s “most wanted” criminal, was treated in July 2001 by an American doctor in the American Hospital in Dubai and visited by the local CIA agent (59).

32. The omission of news stories suggesting that after 9/11 the US military in Afghanistan deliberately allowed Osama bin Laden to escape (60).

33. The omission of reports, including the report of a visit to Osama bin Laden at the hospital in Dubai by the head of Saudi intelligence, that were in tension with the official portrayal of Osama as disowned by his family and his country (60-61).

34. The omission of Gerald Posner’s account of Abu Zubaydah’s testimony, according to which three members of the Saudi royal family---all of whom later died mysteriously within an eight-day period---were funding al-Qaeda and had advance knowledge of the 9/11 attacks (61-65).

35. The Commission’s denial that it found any evidence of Saudi funding of al-Qaeda (65-68).

36. The Commission’s denial in particular that it found any evidence that money from Prince Bandar’s wife, Princess Haifa, went to al-Qaeda operatives (69-70).

37. The denial, by means of simply ignoring the distinction between private and commercial flights, that the private flight carrying Saudis from Tampa to Lexington on September 13 violated the rules for US airspace in effect at the time (71-76).

38. The denial that any Saudis were allowed to leave the United States shortly after 9/11 without being adequately investigated (76-82).

39. The omission of evidence that Prince Bandar obtained special permission from the White House for the Saudi flights (82-86).

40. The omission of Coleen Rowley’s claim that some officials at FBI headquarters did see the memo from Phoenix agent Kenneth Williams (89-90).

41. The omission of Chicago FBI agent Robert Wright’s charge that FBI headquarters closed his case on a terrorist cell, then used intimidation to prevent him from publishing a book reporting his experiences (91).

42. The omission of evidence that FBI headquarters sabotaged the attempt by Coleen Rowley and other Minneapolis agents to obtain a warrant to search Zacarias Moussaoui’s computer (91-94).

43. The omission of the 3.5 hours of testimony to the Commission by former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds—-testimony that, according to her later public letter to Chairman Kean, revealed serious 9/11-related cover-ups by officials at FBI headquarters (94-101).

44. The omission of the fact that General Mahmoud Ahmad, the head of Pakistan’s intelligence agency (the ISI), was in Washington the week prior to 9/11, meeting with CIA chief George Tenet and other US officials (103-04).

45. The omission of evidence that ISI chief Ahmad had ordered $100,000 to be sent to Mohamed Atta prior to 9/11 (104-07).

46. The Commission’s claim that it found no evidence that any foreign government, including Pakistan, had provided funding for the al-Qaeda operatives (106).

47. The omission of the report that the Bush administration pressured Pakistan to dismiss Ahmad as ISI chief after the appearance of the story that he had ordered ISI money sent to Atta (107-09).

48. The omission of evidence that the ISI (and not merely al-Qaeda) was behind the assassination of Ahmad Shah Masood (the leader of Afghanistan’s Northern Alliance), which occurred just after the week-long meeting between the heads of the CIA and the ISI (110-112).

49. The omission of evidence of ISI involvement in the kidnapping and murder of Wall Street Reporter Daniel Pearl (113).

50. The omission of Gerald Posner’s report that Abu Zubaydah claimed that a Pakistani military officer, Mushaf Ali Mir, was closely connected to both the ISI and al-Qaeda and had advance knowledge of the 9/11 attacks (114).

51. The omission of the 1999 prediction by ISI agent Rajaa Gulum Abbas that the Twin Towers would be “coming down” (114).

52. The omission of the fact that President Bush and other members of his administration repeatedly spoke of the 9/11 attacks as “opportunities” (116-17).

53. The omission of the fact that The Project for the New American Century, many members of which became key figures in the Bush administration, published a document in 2000 saying that “a new Pearl Harbor” would aid its goal of obtaining funding for a rapid technological transformation of the US military (117-18).

54. The omission of the fact that Donald Rumsfeld, who as head of the commission on the US Space Command had recommended increased funding for it, used the attacks of 9/11 on that very evening to secure such funding (119-22).

55. The failure to mention the fact that three of the men who presided over the failure to prevent the 9/11 attacks—-Secretary Rumsfeld, General Richard Myers, and General Ralph Eberhart---were also three of the strongest advocates for the US Space Command (122).

56. The omission of the fact that Unocal had declared that the Taliban could not provide adequate security for it to go ahead with its oil-and-gas pipeline from the Caspian region through Afghanistan and Pakistan (122-25).

57. The omission of the report that at a meeting in July 2001, US representatives said that because the Taliban refused to agree to a US proposal that would allow the pipeline project to go forward, a war against them would begin by October (125-26).

58. The omission of the fact that Zbigniew Brzezinski in his 1997 book had said that for the United States to maintain global primacy, it needed to gain control of Central Asia, with its vast petroleum reserves, and that a new Pearl Harbor would be helpful in getting the US public to support this imperial effort (127-28).

59. The omission of evidence that some key members of the Bush administration, including Donald Rumsfeld and his deputy Paul Wolfowitz, had been agitating for a war with Iraq for many years (129-33).

60. The omission of notes of Rumsfeld’s conversations on 9/11 showing that he was determined to use the attacks as a pretext for a war with Iraq (131-32).

61. The omission of the statement by the Project for the New American Century that “the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein” (133-34).

62. The claim that FAA protocol on 9/11 required the time-consuming process of going through several steps in the chain of command--even though the Report cites evidence to the contrary (158).

63. The claim that in those days there were only two air force bases in NORAD’s Northeast sector that kept fighters on alert and that, in particular, there were no fighters on alert at either McGuire or Andrews (159-162).

64. The omission of evidence that Andrews Air Force Base did keep several fighters on alert at all times (162-64).

65. The acceptance of the twofold claim that Colonel Marr of NEADS had to telephone a superior to get permission to have fighters scrambled from Otis and that this call required eight minutes (165-66).

66. The endorsement of the claim that the loss of an airplane’s transponder signal makes it virtually impossible for the US military’s radar to track that plane (166-67).

67. The claim that the Payne Stewart interception did not show NORAD’s response time to Flight 11 to be extraordinarily slow (167-69).

68. The claim that the Otis fighters were not airborne until seven minutes after they received the scramble order because they did not know where to go (174-75).

69. The claim that the US military did not know about the hijacking of Flight 175 until 9:03, when it was crashing into the South Tower (181-82).

70. The omission of any explanation of (a) why NORAD’s earlier report, according to which the FAA had notified the military about the hijacking of Flight 175 at 8:43, was now to be considered false and (b) how this report, if it was false, could have been published and then left uncorrected for almost three years (182).

71. The claim that the FAA did not set up a teleconference until 9:20 that morning (183).

72. The omission of the fact that a memo by Laura Brown of the FAA says that its teleconference was established at about 8:50 and that it included discussion of Flight 175’s hijacking (183-84, 186).

73. The claim that the NMCC teleconference did not begin until 9:29 (186-88).

74. The omission, in the Commission’s claim that Flight 77 did not deviate from its course until 8:54, of the fact that earlier reports had said 8:46 (189-90).

75. The failure to mention that the report that a large jet had crashed in Kentucky, at about the time Flight 77 disappeared from FAA radar, was taken seriously enough by the heads of the FAA and the FBI’s counterterrorism unit to be relayed to the White House (190).

76. The claim that Flight 77 flew almost 40 minutes through American airspace towards Washington without being detected by the military’s radar (191-92).

77. The failure to explain, if NORAD’s earlier report that it was notified about Flight 77 at 9:24 was “incorrect,” how this erroneous report could have arisen, i.e., whether NORAD officials had been lying or simply confused for almost three years (192-93).

78. The claim that the Langley fighter jets, which NORAD had previously said were scrambled to intercept Flight 77, were actually scrambled in response to an erroneous report from an (unidentified) FAA controller at 9:21 that Flight 11 was still up and was headed towards Washington (193-99).

79. The claim that the military did not hear from the FAA about the probable hijacking of Flight 77 before the Pentagon was struck (204-12).

80. The claim that Jane Garvey did not join Richard Clarke’s videoconference until 9:40, after the Pentagon was struck (210).

81. The claim that none of the teleconferences succeeded in coordinating the FAA and military responses to the hijackings because “none of [them] included the right officials from both the FAA and the Defense Department”---although Richard Clarke says that his videoconference included FAA head Jane Garvey as well as Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and General Richard Myers, the acting chair of the joint chiefs of staff (211).

82. The Commission’s claim that it did not know who from the Defense Department participated in Clarke’s videoconference---although Clarke’s book said that it was Donald Rumsfeld and General Myers (211-212).

83. The endorsement of General Myers’ claim that he was on Capitol Hill during the attacks, without mentioning Richard Clarke’s contradictory account, according to which Myers was in the Pentagon participating in Clarke’s videoconference (213-17).

84. The failure to mention the contradiction between Clarke’s account of Rumsfeld’s whereabouts that morning and Rumsfeld’s own accounts (217-19).

85. The omission of Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta’s testimony, given to the Commission itself, that Vice-President Cheney and others in the underground shelter were aware by 9:26 that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon (220).

86. The claim that Pentagon officials did not know about an aircraft approaching Pentagon until 9:32, 9:34, or 9:36---in any case, only a few minutes before the building was hit (223).

87. The endorsement of two contradictory stories about the aircraft that hit the Pentagon---one in which it executed a 330-degree downward spiral (a “high-speed dive”) and another in which there is no mention of this maneuver (222-23).

88. The claim that the fighter jets from Langley, which were allegedly scrambled to protect Washington from “Phantom Flight 11,” were nowhere near Washington because they were mistakenly sent out to sea (223-24).

89. The omission of all the evidence suggesting that the aircraft that hit the Pentagon was not Flight 77 (224-25).

90. The claim that the military was not notified by the FAA about Flight 93’s hijacking until after it crashed (227-29, 232, 253).

91. The twofold claim that the NMCC did not monitor the FAA-initiated conference and then was unable to get the FAA connected to the NMCC-initiated teleconference (230-31).

92. The omission of the fact that the Secret Service is able to know everything that the FAA knows (233).

93. The omission of any inquiry into why the NMCC initiated its own teleconference if, as Laura Brown of the FAA has said, this is not standard protocol (234).

94. The omission of any exploration of why General Montague Winfield not only had a rookie (Captain Leidig) take over his role as the NMCC’s Director of Operations but also left him in charge after it was clear that the Pentagon was facing an unprecedented crisis (235-36).

95. The claim that the FAA (falsely) notified the Secret Service between 10:10 and 10:15 that Flight 93 was still up and headed towards Washington (237).

96. The claim that Vice President Cheney did not give the shoot-down authorization until after 10:10 (several minutes after Flight 93 had crashed) and that this authorization was not transmitted to the US military until 10:31 (237-41).

97. The omission of all the evidence indicating that Flight 93 was shot down by a military plane (238-39, 252-53).

98. The claim that Richard Clarke did not receive the requested shoot-down authorization until 10:25 (240).

99. The omission of Clarke’s own testimony, which suggests that he received the shoot-down authorization by 9:50 (240).

100. The claim that Cheney did not reach the underground shelter (the PEOC [Presidential Emergency Operations Center]) until 9:58 (241-44).

101. The omission of multiple testimony, including that of Norman Mineta to the Commission itself, that Cheney was in the PEOC before 9:20 (241-44).

102. The claim that shoot-down authorization must be given by the president (245).

103. The omission of reports that Colonel Marr ordered a shoot-down of Flight 93 and that General Winfield indicated that he and others at the NMCC had expected a fighter jet to reach Flight 93 (252).

104. The omission of reports that there were two fighter jets in the air a few miles from NYC and three of them only 200 miles from Washington (251).

105. The omission of evidence that there were at least six bases with fighters on alert in the northeastern part of the United States (257-58).

106. The endorsement of General Myers’ claim that NORAD had defined its mission in terms of defending only against threats from abroad (258-62).

107. The endorsement of General Myers’ claim that NORAD had not recognized the possibility that terrorists might use hijacked airliners as missiles (262-63).

108. The failure to highlight the significance of evidence presented in the Report itself, and to mention other evidence, showing that NORAD had indeed recognized the threat that hijacked airliners might be used as missiles (264-67).

109. The failure to probe the issue of how the “war games” scheduled for that day were related to the military’s failure to intercept the hijacked airliners (268-69).

110. The failure to discuss the possible relevance of Operation Northwoods to the attacks of 9/11 (269-71).

111. The claim---made in explaining why the military did not get information about the hijackings in time to intercept them---that FAA personnel inexplicably failed to follow standard procedures some 16 times (155-56, 157, 179, 180, 181, 190, 191, 193, 194, 200, 202-03, 227, 237, 272-75).

112. The failure to point out that the Commission’s claimed “independence” was fatally compromised by the fact that its executive director, Philip Zelikow, was virtually a member of the Bush administration (7-9, 11-12, 282-84).

113. The failure to point out that the White House first sought to prevent the creation of a 9/11 Commission, then placed many obstacles in its path, including giving it extremely meager funding (283-85).

114. The failure to point out that the Commission’s chairman, most of the other commissioners, and at least half of the staff had serious conflicts of interest (285-90, 292-95).

115. The failure of the Commission, while bragging that it presented its final report “without dissent,” to point out that this was probably possible only because Max Cleland, the commissioner who was most critical of the White House and swore that he would not be part of “looking at information only partially,” had to resign in order to accept a position with the Export-Import Bank, and that the White House forwarded his nomination for this position only after he was becoming quite outspoken in his criticisms (290-291).

---

Proost
O, ye Fountains, Meadows, Hills, and Groves
  woensdag 25 mei 2005 @ 15:38:52 #184
45622 merlin693
Huh ! Asmodeus & me
pi_27342520
@Themassive

waarom heb je nog steeds geen antwoord gegeven op de vraag van het getal Phi
quote:
Die vraag is hier al beantwoord, The Massive. Ik hecht geen extra waarde aan een onderzoek alleen omdat ze door een autoriteit gepleegd zijn. Ik kijk naar de opbouw, de argumentatie, naar circumstantial evidence en naar de overeenkomst tussen de onderzoeken en de werkelijkheid, of wat er bekend is van de werkelijkheid. Hierop gebaseerd gaat mijn voorkeur uit naar alternatieve verklaringen.

Hoe ik het zie, is dit scenario gepland door enkele kopstukken in de amerikaanse politiek, noem ze de neocons, de PNAC, de voormalige reagan administratie. Deze mensen hebben zich publiekelijk verzet tegen allerlei onderzoeken, hebben ervoor gezordg dat er nauwelijks financiering was voor de onderzoeken die er toch kwamen, en hebben ervoor gezorgd dat de onderzoekscommissie uit topmensen bestaat uit het leger en de inlichtingendiensten. Deze mensen moeten orders opvolgen van die kopstukken! Ze namen het officiele regeringsstandpunt bij voorbaat al over, verzamelden informatie die dit kon staven en verwierpen alle andere informatie. Kijk nog een naar die link die ik eerder postte naar dat boek over de 'omissions of the 911 commission'. Hier staat het duidelijker in beschreven dan ik het kan uitleggen.

Maar TheMassive, jij hebt tot nu toe alleen maar de posts van mij en van UncleScorp bekritiseerd, zonder zelf met argumenten te komen. Dus ik wil jouw ook een paar dingen vragen, ik zou graag zien dat je je mening met argumenten kon staven.

- Lees jij eens die timelines uit mijn vorige post en vertel me wat je daarvan vindt, en of de officiele verklaring over 9/11 hiermee te rijmen valt?
- Vertel mij eens of jij gelooft wat de Warren Commission schreef over JFK, en waarom?
- Lees jij dit artikel eens door en vertel mij of jij het hier beschreven gedrag ziet terug komen in het gedrag en de uitspraken van regeringsleiders, en met name GwB, maar ook bij onze eigen JPB.
http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/disinfo.htm
krijg hier het gevoel dat je helmaal geen zin hebt om te discuseren(oftewel selectief overslaan van vragen die mischien te moeilijk worden )..maar liever wilt mierenneuken (ik noem het trollen maar das mijn mening )
  woensdag 25 mei 2005 @ 15:41:19 #185
102127 Hallulama
Energy Must Flow
pi_27342607
Overheden bekokstoven continu van alles en nog wat, zo is het altijd al gegaan, en zo zal 't altijd blijven gaan, TENZIJ...

Juist, tenzij eeh...

Tenzij eeh...

Dingen?
O, ye Fountains, Meadows, Hills, and Groves
  woensdag 25 mei 2005 @ 15:41:56 #186
102127 Hallulama
Energy Must Flow
pi_27342639
Oh, en FUCK brood en spelen!
O, ye Fountains, Meadows, Hills, and Groves
pi_27342754
quote:
Op woensdag 25 mei 2005 15:08 schreef Hallulama het volgende:
20. The omission of any discussion of whether the Pentagon has a anti-missile defense system that would have brought down a commercial airliner---even though the Commission suggested that the al-Qaeda terrorists did not attack a nuclear power plant because they assumed that it would be thus defended (36).
Deze vind ik wel interessant ... er zijn hier al boeken geschreven over het Pentagon maar dit ben ik toch nergens tegengekomen ?
Je zou idd verwachten dat zo'n belangrijk gebouw als het Pentagon toch een defensie-systeem à la US (united states ) zou hebben ?
I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear to me now. The whole thing. It's wonderful.
pi_27344405
quote:
Op woensdag 25 mei 2005 15:41 schreef Hallulama het volgende:
Oh, en FUCK brood en spelen!
Juist. Brood en spelen, ofwel zekerheid van voortbestaan en vermaak. Meer hebben de meeste mensen niet nodig. Wat dat betreft verandert er weinig door de jaren heen. 'Brood' is tegenwoordig het geld, de economie, de kunst van de door rentepercentages oneindig groeiende bankrekeningen die slechts een getalletjes zijn in de computers van de banken. En 'spelen', tsja, dat is alomvertegenwoordigd: op de eerste plaats televisie maar ook sport, films, internet, muziek en tegenwoordig zelfs politiek. De waarheid is van een lust en last geworden omdat de waarheid zowel het genot van het 'brood' als het genot van het 'vermaak' vermindert en uiteindelijk teniet zal doen.

Het is grappig dat Julius Ceasar hier al over schreef, op een manier waarop het lijkt dat het over onze tijden gaat. En zelfs voor zijn tijd was het al oud nieuws. Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, Napoleon, Ceasar: als je hen leest ga je pas snappen hoezeer de gewone mensen slechts pionnen zijn in machtsspelletjes. Tweeduizendjaar oude geschriften waarin uiteen wordt gezet hoe een combinatie van bankiers, soldaten en entertainers een wereldrijk voor eeuwenlang onder controle konden houden. Maar als je zegt dat je vermoed dat iets dergelijks NU ook gebeurt, ben je een conspiracy nut. Zij die willen voorkomen dat je de werkelijke geschiedenis kent, zijn er op uit hem te herhalen.
Small minds, cold hearts and lost souls are the most dangerous weapons of mass destruction
pi_27364626
L' histoire se répète ...
I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear to me now. The whole thing. It's wonderful.
pi_27377334
quote:
Op woensdag 25 mei 2005 15:41 schreef Hallulama het volgende:
Oh, en FUCK brood en spelen!
*themassive-mode*
Beste user... Misschien, en het is maar een suggestie, maar in plaats van dat jij je punt duidelijk wil maken zoals hoe je dat nu doet, dmv one-liners waarmee je iets lijkt te impliceren, kun je ook gewoon met feiten of de versie die jij weet komen. Toch?
I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear to me now. The whole thing. It's wonderful.
  donderdag 26 mei 2005 @ 16:13:51 #191
45622 merlin693
Huh ! Asmodeus & me
pi_27378124
getal Phi schreef
quote:
Maar TheMassive, jij hebt tot nu toe alleen maar de posts van mij en van UncleScorp bekritiseerd, zonder zelf met argumenten te komen. Dus ik wil jouw ook een paar dingen vragen, ik zou graag zien dat je je mening met argumenten kon staven.

- Lees jij eens die timelines uit mijn vorige post en vertel me wat je daarvan vindt, en of de officiele verklaring over 9/11 hiermee te rijmen valt?
- Vertel mij eens of jij gelooft wat de Warren Commission schreef over JFK, en waarom?
- Lees jij dit artikel eens door en vertel mij of jij het hier beschreven gedrag ziet terug komen in het gedrag en de uitspraken van regeringsleiders, en met name GwB, maar ook bij onze eigen JPB.
http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/disinfo.htm
Kom op TheMassive waar blijft je antwoord nou of blijf je liever mierenneuken in feedback omdat deze vragen mischien te moeilijk zijn !? of heb je voor de zoveelste keer niet door dat hij antwoord gaf op jouw vraag !
pi_27378201
quote:
Op donderdag 26 mei 2005 16:13 schreef merlin693 het volgende:
getal Phi schreef
Kom op TheMassive waar blijft je antwoord nou of blijf je liever mierenneuken in feedback omdat deze vragen mischien te moeilijk zijn !?
*themassive-mode*
Beste user... Misschien, en het is maar een suggestie, maar in plaats van dat jij je punt duidelijk wil maken zoals hoe je dat nu doet, dmv one-liners waarmee je iets lijkt te impliceren, kun je ook gewoon met feiten of de versie die jij weet komen. Toch?
I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear to me now. The whole thing. It's wonderful.
  donderdag 26 mei 2005 @ 20:47:56 #193
52357 Lambiekje
Everything is upside down
pi_27385938
Re open 911

Op deze site kan je een DVD ( Confronting the Evidence) bestellen die wel heel veel vragen heeft over het instorten van de torens en over het debiueze gedoe bij het Pentagon.

Ik had net toevallig net een topic geopent in Niews ... maar er blijkt dus al een hele topic te bestaan.
Everything is backwards, everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, psychiatrists destroy minds, scientists destroy truth, media destroys information, religions destroy spirituality and governments destroy freedom.
pi_27389477
911 is hier al platgeschreven bij manier van spreken ...

Maar we zijn er nog altijd niet uit

Beide partijen kunnen nooit hun eventueel gelijk bewijzen ...
I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear to me now. The whole thing. It's wonderful.
  donderdag 26 mei 2005 @ 23:07:24 #195
102127 Hallulama
Energy Must Flow
pi_27390857
De spirituele wereld doet nu ook mee:

---

Nancy Tate:Special Message May 26, 05
Channelings | 26 Mei 2005 | 20:57:59

Please take note and participate.

My dear, thank you for your quick response. I wish to tell you that there is taking place in Washington something that requires that all of you put out a call to heaven to assimilate the energies of clearing for the ones who are entering the White House right now.

We wish to ask you to send this out to your list and far and wide, for this is a time when we require all of the direct intent for the coming forward of the story of 9/11.

Right now the ones who will be telling what they know are in the position where they need your assistance to back them up with your energy of permission and of intent for this information to come forward. This is vital that there be a direct statement of intent for this purpose.

We ask that you write this in your message for all to repeat.

"We the people of planet earth do require and direct those who have evidence as to the complicity of certain ones in the 9/11 incident to come forward now unopposed and present this information for publication.

We further intend and state that we are including the ones who will carry this information to the ultimate justice of the land. We thank the forces of light and the ones who are joining in this requirement and intent.

We are the people of the planet earth, and we stand united in this cause."

This is requested by the undersigned:

Brought forth from Commanders Hatonn and Korton, Masters St. Germain and Sananda, and all the members of the Galactic federation.

---

Spread the word!
O, ye Fountains, Meadows, Hills, and Groves
pi_27396870
hm, kweet niet goed wat ik hiervan moet vinden ...
Aliens in de jury op een 911-proces ?
I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear to me now. The whole thing. It's wonderful.
  vrijdag 27 mei 2005 @ 10:23:17 #197
102127 Hallulama
Energy Must Flow
pi_27399517
Nee, we moeten gewoon even mediteren en liefdevol denken aan de mensen die bewijs hebben voor wat betreft 9/11 maar te bang zijn om er mee naar voren te komen omdat ze bedreigd worden of omdat ze bang zijn om zelf ook de cel in te gaan.

Via het veld zullen deze mensen dan onze positieve energie ontvangen en zichzelf sterk genoeg voelen om bijvoorbeeld CNN te bellen om te zeggen dat het zaakje stinkt, en waarom het zaakje stinkt.

Zoiets !
O, ye Fountains, Meadows, Hills, and Groves
pi_27400371
lol

Doet mee een beetje denken aan dat initiatief om met zoveel mogelijk mensen op een welbepaald ogenblik te beginnen springen om zo de baan van de aarde te veranderen
I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear to me now. The whole thing. It's wonderful.
  vrijdag 3 juni 2005 @ 22:40:39 #199
103219 OpenYourMind
Question Everything
pi_27622625
quote:
Op woensdag 25 mei 2005 16:32 schreef 1.61803399 het volgende:

[..]

Juist. Brood en spelen, ofwel zekerheid van voortbestaan en vermaak. Meer hebben de meeste mensen niet nodig. Wat dat betreft verandert er weinig door de jaren heen. 'Brood' is tegenwoordig het geld, de economie, de kunst van de door rentepercentages oneindig groeiende bankrekeningen die slechts een getalletjes zijn in de computers van de banken. En 'spelen', tsja, dat is alomvertegenwoordigd: op de eerste plaats televisie maar ook sport, films, internet, muziek en tegenwoordig zelfs politiek. De waarheid is van een lust en last geworden omdat de waarheid zowel het genot van het 'brood' als het genot van het 'vermaak' vermindert en uiteindelijk teniet zal doen.

Het is grappig dat Julius Ceasar hier al over schreef, op een manier waarop het lijkt dat het over onze tijden gaat. En zelfs voor zijn tijd was het al oud nieuws. Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, Napoleon, Ceasar: als je hen leest ga je pas snappen hoezeer de gewone mensen slechts pionnen zijn in machtsspelletjes. Tweeduizendjaar oude geschriften waarin uiteen wordt gezet hoe een combinatie van bankiers, soldaten en entertainers een wereldrijk voor eeuwenlang onder controle konden houden. Maar als je zegt dat je vermoed dat iets dergelijks NU ook gebeurt, ben je een conspiracy nut. Zij die willen voorkomen dat je de werkelijke geschiedenis kent, zijn er op uit hem te herhalen.
Mooi en helder beschreven
"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed - if all records told the same tale - then the lie passed into history and became truth. Who controls the past controls the future, who controls the present controls the past."
  zaterdag 4 juni 2005 @ 09:52:19 #200
34156 Mirage
Smile !!!
pi_27628620
oei, nu ik dit topic zie herinner ik me opeens een dvdtje dat ik vorige week via de post heb gekregen.
Ook over 9/11 ( en de leugens ).
Even kijken waar ik dat heb gelegd en wat ik ervan vind.


dank voor de reminder !
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.
Sir Winston Churchill
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