Vermeende genocides II

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Turkish Scholars Acknowledge the Genocide

By Daphne Abeel
Mirror-Spectator Staff

ANN ARBOR, Mich. - In 1998, Prof. Ronald Grigor Suny, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, traveled to Koc University in Istanbul to lecture on the Armenian Genocide. That trip and the ensuing contact with Turkish scholars was the genesis of a three-day workshop this past weekend(March 17-19), held at Wilder House, University of Michigan.
"What was so extraordinary and unexpected," said Suny, in an interview
following the workshop, "was that within just a few minutes into the first
panel, there was a discussion on the highest level, free of political bias.
This is what we had sought - the creation of a community of scholars who
could talk openly about these issues. The Turkish participants, except for
one, used the word 'genocide' repeatedly."
Titled "Armenians and the End of the Ottoman Empire," it brought Armenian
and Turkish scholars together for the first time to engage in an open discussion of how Armenians contributed, adjusted, and, ultimately, felt victim to the transformation from Ottoman Empire to the modern Turkish republic.
Said Suny, "My trip to Istanbul had excited me about the possibilities of
engaging with Turkish scholars." With the assistance of his academic
colleagues at the University of Michigan, Kevork B. Bardakjian, Fatma Muge
Gocek, Stephanie Platz, and Kenneth Church, a broad invitation was issued to scholars in the Armenian and Turkish communities to come together.
"We got a good response, even from Turkish scholars in Turkey, although
there were some from the Armenian community who did not feel ready for this type of discussion," said Suny.
The workshops attracted participants from Istanbul, Germany, New York City, California, Minnesota, Boston, and Princeton, N.J.
Suny, in his opening remarks, praised the participants' courage, saying,
"This is a small, humble and historic meeting. It is the first time scholars of different nationalities, including Armenia and Turkey, have gathered to present papers and discuss, in a scholarly fashion, the fate of the peoples of the Ottoman Empire as that state declined and disintegrated."
While the workshops touched on the fates of Jews, Circassians, Arabs and
Greeks, Suny said, "The principal focus was on the people and events that
have been elided- the massacre and deportations of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire, which constituted the first genocide of the 20th century."
Suny singled out several speakers for comment. Among them was Dr. Gerard J. Libaridian, an historian based in Boston, who served as senior advisor to the former president of Armenia, Lebon Ter-Petrossian. Libaridian participated on a panel titled "The Young Turks and the Armenians." and opened his remarks with the reading of a poem, "The Crossroads" by Eghishe Charents. Using the poem as a touchstone for his talk, he said, "It is important not only what happened, but what we make of what happened. Why do some people like the problem and not the solution? We share a common past that has been hijacked by the nationalists."
Suny also reported on the comments of several Turkish scholars. Salim
Deringil from Bosphorus University in Istanbul said, "This was the most
difficult paper I've written in my life. Venturing into the Armenian crisis is like wandering into a mine field." Suny praised Deringil for producing "wonderful documents relative to the situation of Armenians and Turks in the Ottoman Empire."
Engin Akarli of Brown University called for "a dialogue with the documents
and the need to move away from universally normalized concepts like the
nation-state."
Halil Berktay of Sabanci University in Istanbul presented a paper in which
he explored "the stereotypes of others presented in Turkish literature during the World War I period."
Borrowing a term from another Turkish scholar, Taner Akcam, Berktay spoke of "a collapse panic" in the Ottoman Empire and said, "Today, there are
illusions about Turkish Armenia. It looks as though Anatolia is normal
territory for the Turks. But in 1915, Anatolia was unknown by the Turks, a
backward place. The Turks had to reoccupy it after World War I."
Suny reserved special mention for Akcam, who is affiliated with Stiftung zu Forderung von Wissenschaft und Kultur in Hamburg. Akcam, a radical student leader who opposed the Turkish military regime and escaped from a prison in Ankara was "the first important Turkish scholar to study the Armenian Genocide and to use the word 'genocide'," said Suny. During his
presentation, Akcam used Turkish documents to pinpoint the actual decision to carry out the deportations early in March 1915, after the defeat of the Turkish army on the Caucasian front.
To his Turkish colleagues, Akcam said, "I am so happy to be here. I don't
feel so alone now."
Encouraged by the content and participation in this workshop, Suny said that plans for additional workshops and discussion were in the making.
"We should go on and invite others to join us. It is so important that we
not think of ourselves as Armenian or Turkish historians, but as scholars who are coming together for a mutual discussion."
The tentative title for the next workshop is "World War I and the Ottoman
Empire: Imperial Dissolution in a Transnational Conjuncture."
"Several universities have expressed interest. I have high hopes that this
dialogue will continue," said Suny.

Bron: http://www.omroep.nl/human/tv/muur/artikel_chgo1.htm

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Op zondag 19 september 2004 11:39 schreef KirmiziBeyaz het volgende:

[..]

De reden daarvoor heb ik eerder vandaag al uitgelegd.

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Op zondag 19 september 2004 11:40 schreef KirmiziBeyaz het volgende:

[..]

Collaborateurs zijn van alle tijden. Net zoals NL ook collaborateurs kende in WO2. Maar om deze mensen nu geloofwaardig en zelfs het noemen waard te noemen, nee.

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Op zondag 19 september 2004 19:19 schreef Hobiedobie het volgende:

[..]

Hebben de Grijze Wolven je niets meer te mailen?

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Op maandag 20 september 2004 11:40 schreef KirmiziBeyaz het volgende:

[..]

Hieruit kan ik met alle moeite geen genocide concluderen. Na je lading armeense en anti-turkse propaganda ben ik nog steeds niet overtuigd. Wat mij betreft is het dus nog altijd een deportatie geweest. Daarnaast zijn het voornamelijk koerden geweest die de vele moorden op hun naam hebben staan. Iets wat buiten de Turken om is gebeurd dus.

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And what becomes of these poor people who have been driven in thousands through Aleppo and the neighbourhood into the deserts, reduced almost entirely, by this time, to women and children? They are driven on and on from one place to another. The thousands shrink to hundreds and the hundreds to tiny remnants, and even these remnants are driven on till the last is dead. Then at last they have reached the goal of their wandering, the 'New Homes assigned to the Armenians,' as the newspapers phrase it

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During World War I the Ottoman Empire came under the Young Turks government. The Young Turks feared the Armenian community, which they had believed was more sympathetic to allied powers (specifically Russia) than to the Ottoman Empire. In early 1915 battalions of Russian Armenians organized the recruiting of Turkish Armenians from behind the Turkish lines. In response the Young Turk government executed 300 Armenian nationalist intellectuals and ordered the deportation of the 1,800,000 Armenians living in Anatolia to Syria and Mesopotamia. In the process several hundred thousand died from starvation, disease or exhaustion. Several hundred thousands more were massacred by Kurdish militia and Ottoman army, giving a total of 1,500,000 Armenians dead.
Bron: http://www.fact-index.com/a/ar/armenian_genocide.html

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Op maandag 20 september 2004 11:47 schreef yvonne het volgende:
Er komt trouwens GEEN deel 3...

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Op maandag 20 september 2004 12:24 schreef HarigeKerel het volgende:
Lieve Mwanatabu je kan een blinde ook nooit uitleggen hoe een boom er echt uit ziet, idem dito met figuur en de genocide op het alom bewonderde Armeense volk

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Op maandag 20 september 2004 12:32 schreef het_fokschaap het volgende:

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wat is er te bewonderen aan het Armeense volk ?

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1919 - In the wake of the war nearly 400 CUP officials implicated in the genocide of the Armenians are arrested, although most avoid justice. Cemal, Enver and Talât are tried in absentia by a Turkish military tribunal, found guilty of war crimes and sentenced to death. The tribunal substantiates the key charge of premeditated mass murder organised by the Central Committee of the CUP and carried out by the 'Special Organisation'. A clandestine group is formed by the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (ARF) to hunt down and assassinate the exiles.

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Transcripts of the trials were published in the Ottoman Government's official newspaper Takvîm-i Vekâyi, of which we have complete but unpublished translations into German and modern Turkish, and partial published translations into English by Vartkes Yeghiayan (The Armenian Genocide and the Trials of the Young Turks) (La Verne, CA: American Armenian International College Press, 1990) and Vahakn Dadrian ("A Textual Analysis of the Key Indictment of the Turkish Military Tribunal Investigating the Armenian Genocide" Armenian Review 44, no. 1/173 [Spring 1991], pp. 1-36, and "The Documentation of the World War I Armenian Massacres in the Proceedings of the Turkish Military Tribunal" International Journal of Middle East Studies 23, no. 4 [November 1991], pp. 549-576), as well as into German by Taner Akçam (Armenien und der Völkermord: Die Istanbuler Prozesse und die türkische Nationalbewegung Armenia and the Genocide: The Istanbul Trials and the Turkish National Movement] [Hamburg: Hamburger Edition, 1996]).
Bron: http://www.armeniangenocideposters.org/html/foreign.html

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Op maandag 20 september 2004 14:47 schreef KirmiziBeyaz het volgende:

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En nu zit je glashard te ontkennen dat de holocaust heeft plaatsgevonden?

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Transcripts of the trials were published in the Ottoman Government's official newspaper Takvîm-i Vekâyi, of which we have complete but unpublished translations into German and modern Turkish, and partial published translations into English by Vartkes Yeghiayan (The Armenian Genocide and the Trials of the Young Turks) (La Verne, CA: American Armenian International College Press, 1990) and Vahakn Dadrian ("A Textual Analysis of the Key Indictment of the Turkish Military Tribunal Investigating the Armenian Genocide" Armenian Review 44, no. 1/173 [Spring 1991], pp. 1-36, and "The Documentation of the World War I Armenian Massacres in the Proceedings of the Turkish Military Tribunal" International Journal of Middle East Studies 23, no. 4 [November 1991], pp. 549-576), as well as into German by Taner Akçam (Armenien und der Völkermord: Die Istanbuler Prozesse und die türkische Nationalbewegung Armenia and the Genocide: The Istanbul Trials and the Turkish National Movement] [Hamburg: Hamburger Edition, 1996).

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"(1) On the evidence of the trial which has taken place before this Military Court, it is obvious that the massacres which took place in the Kaza of Boghazlayan (Ankara), the Sanjak of Yozgat, and the Vilayet of Trebizond, were organized and perpetrated by the leaders of the Ittihad and Terakki Party.
...
"(4) The world congress of the Ittihad and Terakki Party, having come to an understanding on the subject of the logistical support of the army, the Party's Istanbul headquarters handed over the direction of that task to its representative, Kemal Bey. First, they created a businessmen's body which took over the operations and rights of a number of firms and factions and seized private property. Public institutions were forced to transfer their assets to a limited number of individuals, including members of bodies mentioned above. As a result, countless numbers of Ottoman subjects have perished from lack of nourishment; many have suffered paralysis, and many have died...
...
There was even more to it. They created an even greater atmosphere of harassment of the non-Islamic elements of the land, the Armenians in particular, who had hoped, from our precious Constitution, for justice and peace. These people now understood that they had been victimised by hypocrisy, and they assumed the posture of awaiting that opportune moment when they would be able to realize their former national aspirations. And the cause of all this were the Ittihadists themselves. They even raised national and racial issues among the Moslems of the land, they promoted divisiveness and conflict and jeopardized Ottoman unity. All this has been established by the intensive studies and examinations done of the matter as they appear in the charge of the Attorney General

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1915- Frankrijk, Groot-Brittannië en Rusland
1916-VS
1965- Uruguay
1982- Cyprus
1987- Europees Parlement
1993- Argentinië
1996- Canada
1996- Griekenland
1997- Libanon
1998- België
2000- Zweden, het Vaticaan, Italië
2001- het Echmiadzin (zeg maar het Armeense Vaticaan)
2003- Zwitserland

Staten die hem officiëel erkennen:

Canada (2002)
Italië (1998)
VS (vanaf 1975 tot nu)
Frankrijk (1998)

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Op maandag 20 september 2004 16:18 schreef KirmiziBeyaz het volgende:

Natuurlijk heeft de Turkse staat haar eigen documenten. Er is echter al aangeboden door Turkije om om de tafel te zitten met historici van Turkije, Armenië en een aantal onafhankelijke historici. Enkel de armeense zijde liet weten hier niets voor te voelen. Dat is ook logisch. Historisch hebben ze geen poot om op te staan, vandaar dat de armenen een dergelijk voorstel afslaan en de beproefde methode om het via de politiek te laten erkennen, prefereren. Een dergelijke houding zegt mij genoeg. Meer dan de bronnen die jij aanhaalt.

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Armenians from all over Anatolia were collected, gathered, and deported
from places like ancient Nicomedia or Izmit for example -- as close to
Istanbul as that. So it [the deportations] was not limited to the war zone,
and it cannot be explained as a purely military measure of safety,
preserving the Turkish army's supply line against the Armenian guerillas on
the Eastern front
Bron: http://www.b-info.com/too(...)1-03/text/mar27e.rfe