[centraal] Defensie nummer IX

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:13 schreef HarigeKerel het volgende:

[..]

Nee, het leger is allemaal mooi en aardig maar ik ga me niet laten afschieten
Ben ook geen Israelier

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:17 schreef sp3c het volgende:
tenzij je posthuum onderscheiden wordt

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:18 schreef Piro het volgende:

[..]

Ach, het eerste wat je doet bij een granaataanval is heel dapper de persoon met de hoogste rang op het ding duwen.

Levend zonder medaille heb ik liever dan mijn naam op een oorlogsmonument terwijl ik in de kist lig.

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:19 schreef sp3c het volgende:

[..]

ik persoonlijk zou wegduiken

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:24 schreef Piro het volgende:

[..]

Laat me raden, je bent officier? .

quote:

It allows the first bullet to crack the ceramic as the kinetic energy is dissipated, and the second round following rapidly on the same trajectory punches through the weakened armour at the virtually the same point

quote:

At the present time the AN-94 is considered as the "professionals' choice", and is used in limited numbers by the elite forces of the Russian Army, police and Internal Affairs Ministry

quote:

The trained professional warrior can use the 2-rounds burst capability of AN-94 to the great degree of success, but prior to this, a lot of time and resources should be spent to train this professional soldier to use AN-94 effectively. Unlike the more common designs, like the Russian Kalashnikov or American M16 rifles and others, the AN-94 internals are not "user friendly", and it took weeks, if not months, to get used to this rifle, its assembly / disassembly and maintenance procedures. It is also more expensive to made and maintain, than the AK-74.

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:30 schreef N_I_ het volgende:
De truc zit hem juist in het feit dat er bijna geen recoil is na het eerste schot en de kogels komen bijna gelijktijdig uit de 'muzzle'.
[..]


[..]


[..]

Bron

Ik kan niks vinden over de 'penetration'-power van de AN-94, helaas. Dat artikel van stormfront is mijn enige bron. Ik dacht dat strategypage daar ook iets over zei maar ik had het mis. Tsja, keramische platen is misschien te hoog gegrepen maar je moet toegeven dat de '2-round-burst' zoals die op de AN revolutionair is.

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:33 schreef sp3c het volgende:
wat is het bereik en het gewicht van de an94?

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:36 schreef Piro het volgende:

[..]

700m maximum en weegt 3.85 kg.
Tot hoever je accuraat kan schieten staat niet vermeld, zal wel om en nabij de 4-500 meter liggen aangezien de SVD 600-650 meter haalt.

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:41 schreef sp3c het volgende:

[..]

valt me nog mee f2000 schiet 200 meter verder en is iets lichter ... ik dacht dat al die high tech het ding zwaarder zouden maken

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:42 schreef Piro het volgende:

[..]

High tech?
Wat klets je nou man, gewoon een gimmick, niks hightechs aan.
Rusland en hightech is zoiets als Palestijnen in de IDF.

quote:

a rugged, gas operated, hand held, shoulder fired, magazine fed, semi-automatic Custom Tactical / Sniper / Target / Counter-Terrorist weapon for the specialized soldier

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:47 schreef sp3c het volgende:

[..]

ja maar toch die kogels zijn naar het schijnt revolutionair ... als het niet high tech is dan moeten er drawbacks aanzitten (gewicht, range) anders gebruikte iedereen het wel onderhand.

Canadezen hebben ook iets nieuws uitgevonden
[afbeelding]
[..]

maar op zijn hollands is het een karabijn

quote:

Troops install cagelike armor to fend off attacks
The News Tribune - Tacoma, WA ^ | Wednesday, November 19, 2003 | MICHAEL GILBERT


Posted on 11/19/2003 5:11:35 AM PST by Cannoneer No. 4


CAMP UDAIRI, Kuwait - Pfc. Gerard Minnitto normally packs a light machine gun, but these days the Stryker brigade infantryman from Tacoma is turning a wrench.

He's among the soldiers and General Dynamics contractors working around the clock to bolt slat armor onto the brigade's fleet of more than 300 Strykers before they move up into Iraq.

The armor - each looking like a great green cage - is meant to protect the $2 million vehicles and the soldiers inside from rocket-propelled grenades. The inexpensive shoulder-fired RPGs are ubiquitous in Iraq and have killed dozens of U.S. troops.

Naturally, Minnitto and his buddies hope the awkward-looking steel contraptions will do the trick, absorbing the worst of the RPGs like a catcher's mask does a baseball. They're optimistic, although a bit skeptical.

And when you get right down to it, there's only one way to find out for sure.

"When I see the first time an RPG hits it," the Mount Tahoma High School graduate said, "then I'll know whether it works."

The idea behind the cage armor goes back at least to his days in Vietnam, said John Funk, the General Dynamics logistics support manager. Troops in that war improvised with chicken wire and other means to counter the RPG threat.

The idea is to detonate the grenade away from the vehicle and prevent its hot chemical reaction from boring through and causing burns, shock and shrapnel wounds.

The Army is working with General Dynamics, the Stryker manufacturer, on a kind of plate armor that will defeat RPGs. But that's not due until the Army develops the third of its six planned Stryker brigades in 2005.

The Army and the contractor have been working on the interim slat armor solution for about nine months, said Maj. Todd Thomas from the Stryker program management office at the U.S. Army Tank and Automotive Command in Warren, Mich.

Thomas has deployed to Kuwait with the brigade and will go north with it to Iraq, where he will work out of a repair and maintenance yard.

So will about 50 of the 100 or so General Dynamics mechanics who are working with about 50 Stryker soldiers to prepare the vehicles for combat duty. For now, they're set up in two new "sprung shelters" - big bubble hangars with room to comfortably fit eight Strykers each.

The work, which began last week, ought to take about 14 days, Thomas said. He doesn't know how much the additional armor cost to develop and install.

The soldiers are mostly infantrymen like Minnitto, temporarily assigned to the slat armor detail.

"It sounds good to me," said Pfc. Gabriel Deroo, a light machine gunner from Paw Paw, Mich. "I mean, any extra armor is good."

Spc. Rod "Buster" Potter, a Stryker vehicle commander from Caldwell, Idaho, said he gets the concept behind the armor. But he said he'd feel better if he'd seen a live test demonstration or a video of the slats in action.

Thomas said the armor has been tested.

"They did test it, and it did very well in testing," he said. "We have a high sense of confidence."

The extra armor weighs about 5,200 pounds, [emphasis Cannoneer No. 4's] about 3,000 pounds lighter than the add-on anti-RPG armor that's under development for later Stryker brigades, said Howard Warner, another official with the General Dynamics logistics support team.

Soldiers said they figure the heavy armor cages, sticking a foot and a half off the front, rear and sides, may cut into the Stryker's speed and maneuverability.

But they recounted an incident from their last training exercise before they left Fort Lewis in which a Stryker hit a ditch and was saved from rolling over by the bulky slat cage.

And while some think the cage is ugly, Potter said he thinks it might help discourage adversaries in Iraq.

"I think it looks intimidating," he said.

Ugly. Intimidating. Whatever.

"I don't care what it looks like," said Pvt. Joshua Blankenship, "as long as it keeps us safe."

Michael Gilbert: mjgilbert41@yahoo.com

(Published 12:01AM, November 19th, 2003)

quote:

Back to reality, this looks innovative and hopefully will save lives....until some type of warhead is designed for the RPG to defeat the cage and contiue on to the armour.

They're way ahead of you, the dual-charge PG7VR should handle that task just fine. Intended to blast through reactive applique armor, the first smaller explosive charge clears the way for the second. But that shouldn't be much of a problem; the primary threat we're faced with is the ammunition and rockets already distributed in-country and in the hands of those who would attach Americans.

quote:

PG-7VL, for RPG-7 grenade laucher

The round is desingend to combat all types of modern tanks and other armour material..
.................................................................................
..........................................
................. (onleesbaar)
The round feature:use of unmodified organic RGP-7 grenade laucher.

Calibre: 90 mm
Weigh 2.5 kg
Accuracy range: 300 m
Penetration (m):
brick: 1.5
onleesbaar voor mij: 1.1

quote:

PG-7VR anti-tank round, designed for RPG-7V1 grenade laucher.

The round is designed to combat all types of tanks, including those provided with Explosive Reactive Armour. And suppres manpower located in brick and concrete buildings and structures. It's capable of penetrating reïnforced concrete and brick walls 1.5 meter thick.

The round feature:size of organic RPG-7 grenda launcher, with modified sighting equipment. Warhead is of a random type.

Calibre: 105 mm
Weight: 4.5 kg
Accurate firing range: 200 m

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 14:54 schreef sp3c het volgende:
zijn ook Canadezen in bv Vietnam actief geweest

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 15:23 schreef sp3c het volgende:
mjah das ook wel weer zo ja ... never mind

toch zijn Canadezen goede gasten, ik loop liever achter 1 canadees dan achter 10 Fransen aan

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 15:12 schreef N_I_ het volgende:
Even terugkomen op de dubbeltrapse raketten. Amerikanen proberen een soort kooi rondom hun Strykers te maken zodat de RPG op de kooi ontploft.


Stryker:
[afbeelding]
[..]

Maar de russen hebben hier al jaren geleden een countermeasure tegen gevonden:
[..]

Gewone RPG-7
[..]

Dubbeltrapse RPG round
[..]

[afbeelding]

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 15:12 schreef HarigeKerel het volgende:

[..]

Vast wel, maar dan in Amerikaanse dienst.
Het Australische leger was er wel.

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 15:23 schreef sp3c het volgende:


toch zijn Canadezen goede gasten, ik loop liever achter 1 canadees dan achter 10 Fransen aan

quote:

Op dinsdag 29 juni 2004 15:30 schreef HarigeKerel het volgende:

[..]

Nou ik ook, zolang ze maar niet uit Quebec komen