NWS Nieuws & Achtergronden
Discussieer hier diepgaander over de actualiteiten.
Yup zelfs Willem vond het niet nodig die zit allang weer vakantie te vieren in Griekenland.quote:Op donderdag 24 juli 2014 17:19 schreef Loveless85 het volgende:
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Ach ja, die hebben hun kiekjes nu, lijkt me niet heel gek dat die er niet dagelijks staan. Is toch ook vooral voor de nabestaanden / overledenen dat ze die ceremonie herhalen.
Als je in discussie gaat met een trol, wint hij. Als je een trol beledigt, wint hij. Als je tekeer gaat tegen een trol, wint hij. Het enige waar trollen niet tegen kunnen, is te worden genegeerd.
vindt jequote:Op donderdag 24 juli 2014 17:23 schreef Dingflofbips het volgende:
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Het leed verzachten?! Ze hebben er juist alles aan gedaan om het zo dramatisch mogelijk te maken
Beelden staan gewoon online. Naakte mensen, verbrande lichamen, halve lichamen, ledematen, half verbrande kinderen in het veld of bij iemand in de tuin, enz.quote:
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Hoe weet je dat er halve en hele lichamen lagen, ik heb nog nooit een lichaam gezien en volg het toch al sinds de eerste dag.
It's my life, it's now or never, I ain't gonna live forever.
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Headstrong to take on anyone.
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Headstrong to take on anyone.
Dan heb je niet goed gekeken (en gelukkig maar...)quote:
Hoe weet je dat er halve en hele lichamen lagen, ik heb nog nooit een lichaam gezien en volg het toch al sinds de eerste dag.
Zijn genoeg beelden waar je duidelijk mensen ziet, gezichten, onderdelen, hele lichamen. etc
Wanneer gaan we die rebellen aanpakken? Zij hebben immers geschoten. Niet Rusland zelf...(volgens mij).
Make my day!
Foto's en filmpjes genoeg.quote:
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Hoe weet je dat er halve en hele lichamen lagen, ik heb nog nooit een lichaam gezien en volg het toch al sinds de eerste dag.
Dat stond in een gesprek met het identificatieteam. Dat kisten niet per se één lichaam van één persoon bevatten.quote:
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Hoe weet je dat er halve en hele lichamen lagen, ik heb nog nooit een lichaam gezien en volg het toch al sinds de eerste dag.
Ja doei.
Ingewanden aan een stuk romp. Echt te goor voor woorden.quote:Op donderdag 24 juli 2014 17:24 schreef CrashO het volgende:
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Dan heb je niet goed gekeken (en gelukkig maar...)
Zijn genoeg beelden waar je duidelijk mensen ziet, gezichten, onderdelen, hele lichamen. etc
Make my day!
Tjah, lekker populistisch geneuzel ook, wat moet hij dan? Hij heeft niet echt meer nut als hij in Den Haag zit en om de 10 minuten naar Timmerfrans belt of er al nieuws is...quote:
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Yup zelfs Willem vond het niet nodig die zit allang weer vakantie te vieren in Griekenland.
Lekker speculeren.quote:
Wanneer gaan we die rebellen aanpakken? Zij hebben immers geschoten. Niet Rusland zelf...(volgens mij).
It's my life, it's now or never, I ain't gonna live forever.
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Headstrong to take on anyone.
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Headstrong to take on anyone.
Er zit een groot verschil tussen dramatisch en respectvol.quote:
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Het leed verzachten?! Ze hebben er juist alles aan gedaan om het zo dramatisch mogelijk te maken
Je raekt an de dinge geweun.
nou dat dacht ikquote:
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Er zit een groot verschil tussen dramatisch en respectvol.
vond ik ook al, maar aan de andere kant: protocool enzoquote:
Wat lopen die militairen eigenlijk inefficient. Van die militaire pasjes. Met zo'n kist op je schouders: soit, dat moet voorzichtig, maar dat vliegtuig in. Is natuurlijk gewoon 'protocol', maar 't ziet er niet zo efficient uit
het lijkt wel of ze nu iets sneller lopen t.o.v. gisteren? of komt dat wellicht doordat er meer dragers zijn?
Die worden al aangepakt, ze krijgen binnenkort, als het aan Nederland ligt, een bonnenregen over zich heen.quote:
Wanneer gaan we die rebellen aanpakken? Zij hebben immers geschoten. Niet Rusland zelf...(volgens mij).
Rusland: 10 vragen aan VS en Oekraine
10 more questions Russian military pose to Ukraine, US over MH17 crash
Russia has released military monitoring data, which shows Kiev military jets tracking the MH17 plane shortly before the crash - and posed yet another set of questions to Ukraine and the US over the circumstances of the tragedy.
Military officials – chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces Lt. Gen. Andrey Kartopolov and chief of the Air Force Main Staff Lt. Gen. Igor Makushev - posed a number of questions to Kiev and Washington concerning the possible causes of the catastrophe in Eastern Ukraine that killed almost 300 people last Thursday.
1. Why did the MH17 plane leave the international corridor?
“Please note that the plane stayed within the corridor until it reached Donetsk but then it deviated from the route to the north,” said Kartopolov.
2. Was MH17 leaving the route a navigation mistake or was the crew following instructions by Ukrainian air traffic controllers in Dnepropetrovsk?
“The maximum deviation from the left border of the corridor was 14 km. Following that, we can see the plane maneuvering to return to the corridor, yet the Malaysian crew did not get a chance to complete the maneuver. At 17.20, the plane began to lose speed, and at 17.23 it disappeared from Russian radars.”
3. Why was a large group of air defense systems deployed to the militia-held area if the self-defense forces have no planes?
“As far as we know, the Ukrainian military had three or four air defense battalions equipped with Buk-M1 SAM systems deployed in the vicinity of Donetsk on the day of the crash. This system is capable of hitting targets within the range of 35 km at the altitude of up to 22 km.”
Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014. (RIA Novosti)Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014. (RIA Novosti)
4. Why did Kiev deploy Buk missile system right next to the militia-controlled area straight ahead of the tragedy?
“We have satellite photos of the places where Ukraine had its air defense units deployed in the southeastern parts of the country. The first three photos were made on July 14. The first photo shows Buk launchers 8 km northwest of Lugansk. You can clearly see a TELAR and two TELs. The second photo shows radars 5 km north of Donetsk. You can see two TARs along with other equipment and technical structures. The third photo shows air defense systems north of Donetsk. You can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures.
“Here’s a photo of the same area made on July 17. Please note that the launcher has disappeared. The fifth photo shows a battery of Buk missiles at the village of Zaroshchenskoye 50 km east of Donetsk and 8 km south of Shakhtyorsk on the morning of the same day. The sixth photo shows the same area on July 18. As you can see, the battery has left.”
No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014. (RIA Novosti)No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014. (RIA Novosti)
5. On the day of the crash Kiev increased activity on its Kupol-M1 9S18 radars, which are components of the Buk system in the area. Why?
“Also, July 17 saw increased activity on the part of Ukraine’s Kupol-M1 9S18 radars, which are part of the Buk system. Here on this chart you see that there were seven radars operating on July 15, eight radars operating on July 16, and nine radars operating on July 17 in the area. Then, starting with July 18, the intensity of radar activities radically decreased, and now there are no more than two or three radars operating a day. The reason behind this is yet to be found.”
6. What was a military plane doing on the route intended for civilian flights?
“There were three civilian planes in the area performing their regular flights at this time. There was a flight from Copenhagen to Singapore at 17:17, there was a flight from Paris to Taipei at 17:24, and then there was the flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.”
“Also, Russian monitoring systems registered that there was a Ukrainian Air Force jet, probably Su-25, climbing and approaching the Malaysian Boeing.”
“The Su-25 was 3-5 km away from the Malaysian plane. Su-25 is capable of climbing to the altitude of 10,000 meters for a short period of time. Its standard armament includes R60 air-to-air missiles, which are capable of locking and hitting targets from 12 km and which are guaranteed to hit the target from the distance of 5 km.”
(RIA Novosti / Vadim Savitsky)(RIA Novosti / Vadim Savitsky)
7. Why was the military jet flying at almost the same time and the same altitude with a passenger plane?
“At 17:21’35, with [the Boeing’s] velocity having dropped to 200 kilometers per hour, a new mark detecting an airborne object appears at the spot of the Boeing’s destruction. This new airborne object was continuously detected for the duration of four minutes by the radar stations Ust-Donetsk and Buturinskaya. An air traffic controller requested the characteristics of the new airborne object, but was unable to get any readings on its parameters – most likely due to the fact that the new aircraft was not equipped with a secondary surveillance radar transponder, which is a distinctive feature of military aircraft,” said Makushev.
“Detecting the new aircraft became possible as it started to ascend. Further changes in the airborne object’s coordinates suggest that it was hovering above the Boeing 777’s crash site, monitoring of the situation.
“Ukrainian officials earlier claimed that there were no Ukrainian military aircraft in the area of the crash that day. As you can see, that is not true.”
8. Where did the launcher – from the video circulated by Western media and showing a Buk system being moved allegedly from Ukraine to Russia – come from? As the video was made on the territory controlled by Kiev, where was the launcher being transported?
“I’d like to say that the information we have presented here is based on objective and reliable data from various technical systems – unlike the groundless accusations made against Russia,” said Kartopolov.
“For example, media circulated a video supposedly showing a Buk system being moved from Ukraine to Russia. This is clearly a fabrication. This video was made in the town of Krasnoarmeisk, as evidenced by the billboard you see in the background, advertising a car dealership at 34 Dnepropetrovsk Street. Krasnoarmeysk has been controlled by the Ukrainian military since May 11.”
9. Where is it right now? Why are some of the missiles missing on the launcher? When was the last time a missile was launched from it?
Screenshot from video posted on Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior account, showing a Buk system supposedly being moved from Ukraine to Russia with two out of three missiles*****eenshot from video posted on Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior account, showing a Buk system supposedly being moved from Ukraine to Russia with two out of three missiles.
10. Why haven’t US officials revealed the evidence supporting claims that the MH17 was shot down by a missile launched by the militia?
“US officials claim they have satellite photographs proving the Malaysian airliner was shot down by a missile launched by the militia. But no one has seen these photographs so far. As far as we know, there was indeed a US satellite flying over southeastern Ukraine on July 17 from 17:06 to 17:21 Moscow time.
“This satellite is part of an experimental system designed to track and monitor the launches of missiles of various ranges. If our US colleagues have imagery from this satellite, they should release it for the international community to examine it in detail. This may be a coincidence, but the US satellite flew over Ukraine at exactly the same time when the Malaysian airliner crashed.”
Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
This is not the first time Russia brings up questions on the plane crash. No explanations have followed with Kiev insisting they have full evidence of Russia being behind the attack, but so far only releasing tapes.
The USA, putting the blame on the self-defense forces, has yet refused to release any intelligence material. On Monday State Department Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf described Russia’s statements as “propaganda and misinformation” - but when reporters asked her whether Washington would be releasing their intelligence and satellite data, Harf only replied "may be." So far the US has been backing its statements by social media and "common sense."
http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-c...sia-questions/
10 more questions Russian military pose to Ukraine, US over MH17 crash
Russia has released military monitoring data, which shows Kiev military jets tracking the MH17 plane shortly before the crash - and posed yet another set of questions to Ukraine and the US over the circumstances of the tragedy.
Military officials – chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces Lt. Gen. Andrey Kartopolov and chief of the Air Force Main Staff Lt. Gen. Igor Makushev - posed a number of questions to Kiev and Washington concerning the possible causes of the catastrophe in Eastern Ukraine that killed almost 300 people last Thursday.
1. Why did the MH17 plane leave the international corridor?
“Please note that the plane stayed within the corridor until it reached Donetsk but then it deviated from the route to the north,” said Kartopolov.
2. Was MH17 leaving the route a navigation mistake or was the crew following instructions by Ukrainian air traffic controllers in Dnepropetrovsk?
“The maximum deviation from the left border of the corridor was 14 km. Following that, we can see the plane maneuvering to return to the corridor, yet the Malaysian crew did not get a chance to complete the maneuver. At 17.20, the plane began to lose speed, and at 17.23 it disappeared from Russian radars.”
3. Why was a large group of air defense systems deployed to the militia-held area if the self-defense forces have no planes?
“As far as we know, the Ukrainian military had three or four air defense battalions equipped with Buk-M1 SAM systems deployed in the vicinity of Donetsk on the day of the crash. This system is capable of hitting targets within the range of 35 km at the altitude of up to 22 km.”
Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014. (RIA Novosti)Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014. (RIA Novosti)
4. Why did Kiev deploy Buk missile system right next to the militia-controlled area straight ahead of the tragedy?
“We have satellite photos of the places where Ukraine had its air defense units deployed in the southeastern parts of the country. The first three photos were made on July 14. The first photo shows Buk launchers 8 km northwest of Lugansk. You can clearly see a TELAR and two TELs. The second photo shows radars 5 km north of Donetsk. You can see two TARs along with other equipment and technical structures. The third photo shows air defense systems north of Donetsk. You can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures.
“Here’s a photo of the same area made on July 17. Please note that the launcher has disappeared. The fifth photo shows a battery of Buk missiles at the village of Zaroshchenskoye 50 km east of Donetsk and 8 km south of Shakhtyorsk on the morning of the same day. The sixth photo shows the same area on July 18. As you can see, the battery has left.”
No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014. (RIA Novosti)No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014. (RIA Novosti)
5. On the day of the crash Kiev increased activity on its Kupol-M1 9S18 radars, which are components of the Buk system in the area. Why?
“Also, July 17 saw increased activity on the part of Ukraine’s Kupol-M1 9S18 radars, which are part of the Buk system. Here on this chart you see that there were seven radars operating on July 15, eight radars operating on July 16, and nine radars operating on July 17 in the area. Then, starting with July 18, the intensity of radar activities radically decreased, and now there are no more than two or three radars operating a day. The reason behind this is yet to be found.”
6. What was a military plane doing on the route intended for civilian flights?
“There were three civilian planes in the area performing their regular flights at this time. There was a flight from Copenhagen to Singapore at 17:17, there was a flight from Paris to Taipei at 17:24, and then there was the flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.”
“Also, Russian monitoring systems registered that there was a Ukrainian Air Force jet, probably Su-25, climbing and approaching the Malaysian Boeing.”
“The Su-25 was 3-5 km away from the Malaysian plane. Su-25 is capable of climbing to the altitude of 10,000 meters for a short period of time. Its standard armament includes R60 air-to-air missiles, which are capable of locking and hitting targets from 12 km and which are guaranteed to hit the target from the distance of 5 km.”
(RIA Novosti / Vadim Savitsky)(RIA Novosti / Vadim Savitsky)
7. Why was the military jet flying at almost the same time and the same altitude with a passenger plane?
“At 17:21’35, with [the Boeing’s] velocity having dropped to 200 kilometers per hour, a new mark detecting an airborne object appears at the spot of the Boeing’s destruction. This new airborne object was continuously detected for the duration of four minutes by the radar stations Ust-Donetsk and Buturinskaya. An air traffic controller requested the characteristics of the new airborne object, but was unable to get any readings on its parameters – most likely due to the fact that the new aircraft was not equipped with a secondary surveillance radar transponder, which is a distinctive feature of military aircraft,” said Makushev.
“Detecting the new aircraft became possible as it started to ascend. Further changes in the airborne object’s coordinates suggest that it was hovering above the Boeing 777’s crash site, monitoring of the situation.
“Ukrainian officials earlier claimed that there were no Ukrainian military aircraft in the area of the crash that day. As you can see, that is not true.”
8. Where did the launcher – from the video circulated by Western media and showing a Buk system being moved allegedly from Ukraine to Russia – come from? As the video was made on the territory controlled by Kiev, where was the launcher being transported?
“I’d like to say that the information we have presented here is based on objective and reliable data from various technical systems – unlike the groundless accusations made against Russia,” said Kartopolov.
“For example, media circulated a video supposedly showing a Buk system being moved from Ukraine to Russia. This is clearly a fabrication. This video was made in the town of Krasnoarmeisk, as evidenced by the billboard you see in the background, advertising a car dealership at 34 Dnepropetrovsk Street. Krasnoarmeysk has been controlled by the Ukrainian military since May 11.”
9. Where is it right now? Why are some of the missiles missing on the launcher? When was the last time a missile was launched from it?
Screenshot from video posted on Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior account, showing a Buk system supposedly being moved from Ukraine to Russia with two out of three missiles*****eenshot from video posted on Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior account, showing a Buk system supposedly being moved from Ukraine to Russia with two out of three missiles.
10. Why haven’t US officials revealed the evidence supporting claims that the MH17 was shot down by a missile launched by the militia?
“US officials claim they have satellite photographs proving the Malaysian airliner was shot down by a missile launched by the militia. But no one has seen these photographs so far. As far as we know, there was indeed a US satellite flying over southeastern Ukraine on July 17 from 17:06 to 17:21 Moscow time.
“This satellite is part of an experimental system designed to track and monitor the launches of missiles of various ranges. If our US colleagues have imagery from this satellite, they should release it for the international community to examine it in detail. This may be a coincidence, but the US satellite flew over Ukraine at exactly the same time when the Malaysian airliner crashed.”
Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
This is not the first time Russia brings up questions on the plane crash. No explanations have followed with Kiev insisting they have full evidence of Russia being behind the attack, but so far only releasing tapes.
The USA, putting the blame on the self-defense forces, has yet refused to release any intelligence material. On Monday State Department Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf described Russia’s statements as “propaganda and misinformation” - but when reporters asked her whether Washington would be releasing their intelligence and satellite data, Harf only replied "may be." So far the US has been backing its statements by social media and "common sense."
http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-c...sia-questions/
uuuuuuuuuuuuuh echt ?quote:
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Die worden al aangepakt, ze krijgen binnenkort, als het aan Nederland ligt, een bonnenregen over zich heen.
En een klein verschil tegelijkertijdquote:
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Er zit een groot verschil tussen dramatisch en respectvol.
Ja dat dacht ik ook al te zien. Volgens mij hadden ze gisteren een beetje een ongelijke pas die dat loopje naar de dodenwagen wat langer liet duren.quote:
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vond ik ook al, maar aan de andere kant: protocool enzo
het lijkt wel of ze nu iets sneller lopen t.o.v. gisteren? of komt dat wellicht doordat er meer dragers zijn?
Als je in discussie gaat met een trol, wint hij. Als je een trol beledigt, wint hij. Als je tekeer gaat tegen een trol, wint hij. Het enige waar trollen niet tegen kunnen, is te worden genegeerd.
Nee.quote:
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En een klein verschil tegelijkertijd
Je raekt an de dinge geweun.
Weet je wat ik denk? Dat het inderdaad waar is dat er een SU-25 vlak bij die Boeing vloog. En dat de rebellen misschien op de SU-25 schoten, zonder door te hebben dat die Boeing daar vloog. Of dachten dat die Boeing een militair toestel was dat begeleid werd door een SU-25.quote:
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Nee we moeten eerst ff wachten tot we echt satellietbeelden hebben van het moment van afvuren. Of nou ja, dan eigenlijk ook niet, want wie zegt dat ze dan op MH17 schoten. Het moet natuurlijk wel echt meer dan WATERDICHT zijn, een paar opgenomen gesprekken met bekentenissen zijn niet genoeg
De SU-25 heeft een IFF systeem aan boord, de Boeing niet. De SU-25 zou dus als een vijandig toestel op de radar verschijnen.
Als die vliegtuigen vlak bij elkaar vlogen, dan kan 1 BUK raket genoeg zijn om beide vliegtuigen neer te halen.
Een punt dat een beetje ondergesneeuwd is geraakt, is dat er niet veel later nadat de Boeing neergestort was, er ook een SU-25 neergestort is. We praten over nog geen 30 minuten later, als ik het goed heb.
Als dit waar is, dan heeft het Oekraïense leger wel degelijk net zo goed schuld aan de ramp. Waarom hebben ze een vliegende schietschijf naar die Boeing toegestuurd?
Amerika lijkt liever geen enkel bewijs te willen publiceren dan bewijs dat Rusland's bewijs ondersteund of tegenspreekt. Bewijs falsificeren kunnen ze ook niet meer, er waren natuurlijk meer satellieten dan alleen de Russische en de Amerikaanse gericht op Oekraïne.
En er schijnen in Europa ook twee AWACS toestellen rond gevlogen te hebben. Bedoeld om het Russische vliegverkeer aan de grens van Oekraïne in de gaten te houden. Ook die moeten bewijzen hebben.
Ik weet niet hoe jullie het zien, maar ik ben zlf nogal huiverig voor een missie in dat gebied.
Make my day!
- vliegtuig neergeschoten op 14 juli, op 6500 meter hoogte. Duidelijk een gemotoriseerd SAM systeem, geen MANPADS.quote:
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Ow, jij hebt informatie die wij niet hebben? Deel dit alsjeblieft met ons.
- facebook van rebellen waar ze de installatie weken eerder toonden, buitgemaakt bij overval legerbasis.
- beslissing om de veilige hoogte op 31000 feet te leggen nadat hun Antonov was neergehaald: dus wisten ze dat het geen MANPADS waren, maar ze wisten ook dat de BUK die al dagenlang op sociale media werd getoond veel hoger kon dan 31000
