Twee kinderen dode man vermist #17

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:43 schreef PoezeligDing het volgende:

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Tchock is gast? Oke, wijs jij hem/ haar even de weg, ik heb geen idee wat de normen hier zijn

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:43 schreef FkTwkGs2012 het volgende:

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papa wilde wraak nemen op mama ivm aangepaste omgangsregeling en andere shit in zijn leven door zijn kinderen mee te nemen in de dood en te verstoppen. hij heeft zoveel mogelijk gedaan om de politie gek te maken en de kids gaan niet gevonden worden. we zijn nog op zoek naar de schoenen van papa, een missend stuk van de sleepkabel van papa's kleine autootje, en naar een spantouw. lang verhaal kort: alles is dood en wat er nog niet gevonden is gaat ook niet gevonden worden

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:43 schreef yvonne het volgende:
Slaaptijd, hopelijk morgen beter nieuws.

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:44 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Speculatie

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:44 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Speculatie

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:43 schreef yvonne het volgende:
Slaaptijd, hopelijk morgen beter nieuws.

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:43 schreef yvonne het volgende:
Slaaptijd, hopelijk morgen beter nieuws.

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:45 schreef Tchock het volgende:

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[ afbeelding ]

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:45 schreef PoezeligDing het volgende:

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En hier zet ik me zo tegen af 'Papa wilde wraak nemen'. Ik word kotsmisselijk van die aanname die nergens, maar dan ook nergens grond vindt.

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:45 schreef PoezeligDing het volgende:

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En hier zet ik me zo tegen af 'Papa wilde wraak nemen'. Ik word kotsmisselijk van die aanname die nergens, maar dan ook nergens grond vindt.

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:46 schreef FkTwkGs2012 het volgende:

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dit is een verschijnsel dat zelfs onderzocht is. papa's doen dat soort dingen. mama's plegen liever zelfmoord bij de lichamen van hun kids. kan het niet helpen, het blijft een erg goede hypothese in deze zaak

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:47 schreef sig000 het volgende:

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Dat is op zich wel een goede samenvatting.

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:45 schreef PoezeligDing het volgende:

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En hier zet ik me zo tegen af 'Papa wilde wraak nemen'. Ik word kotsmisselijk van die aanname die nergens, maar dan ook nergens grond vindt.

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:48 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Nee

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Op zaterdag 11 mei 2013 02:14 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:
I apologize for writing in English, I'm from the US. I'm following this case closely as I research filicide for my PhD thesis. Filicide is the murder of a child by a parent.

I of course most certainly hope these lovely boys will be found alive.

With help of google translate, I understand there is debate about what makes a parent do such a thing. Fortunately, filicide is very uncommon. Please allow me to briefly explain the motives.

The most common reason parents kill their children is altruism, they think it is best for their child, of the child is severely ill. In the US euthanasia is not an option, while I understand it is in the Netherlands. Suicide is not associated with altruistic killing generally.

Second most common reason for filicide is child abuse or accidental killing. Not generally associated with suicide either.

When mothers kill their children, it is usually under the age of 2 years. Contributing factors are mental illness (psychosis most often) and lack of support network. The mother is at the end of her rope. There is about a 33% rate of suicide following the murders.

When father's kill their children the most common reason is 'revenge on a spouse'. The majority of these happen post divorce, but also commonly happen during the divorce proceedings. Children are often older (but younger then 12) and the father less likely has psychosis, but more likely to have a personality disorder. The narcissistic injury is too great. If I can't have the kids, you can't have the kids. Suicide rate is high amongst fathers who kill their children for revenge. Often they burn the house down, drive the car of the cliff in a remote area or into a remote lake. The murders are very calculated and to inflict as much pain as possible. They either arrange it such that the mother is the one who finds them, or that they never would be found.

The problem in society is (and I'm speaking for the US, I have no knowledge of the Netherlands) that we don't recognize personality disorders. These (wo-)men are charming, friendly and generally outgoing. They are often (superficially) liked by many. Family and friends I interviewed often exclaim 'there is no way he could have done this'.

There are lots of fathers who get treated unfairly in the court system (apparently the Netherlands is no different then the US), these father's despair, but don't kill their children. They do not have mental illness or personality disorders, the killing of a child by a parent is solely based on the internal dynamics of that parent.

I sincerely hope these boys will be found, I even hope more they will be found alive.

Kind regards,

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I should absolutely clarify!

Before a parent can actually kill their own child, a threshold has to be passed. With altruistic motives, the parents (this is often a joint decision) often do not have mental illness or personality disorders.

When it comes to just 1 parent unilaterally ending the life of their own child, you do have mental illness (bipolar is an example) or personality disorder (impulse control is a characteristic of PD's) playing a huge role. The internal dynamics of that parent drive the killings, externalization of blame (characteristic of PD's) to the other parent hold no foot.

In fraternal filicide we see a shift to PD's, whereas in maternal filicide we see a shift to psychosis.

What I wanted to say was that there are plenty of emotionally and psychologically healthy father's who get mistreated by the justice system, often in a terrible manner, and do not kill their children. Their inner works drive them not to do so.

I hope I was a little more clear. Very much appreciate your contribution!

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I should add, personality disorders do not change over time, neurotic tendencies can express differently at different times, but those don't kill their children, the threshold is too high.

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Mothers stay close to the children after murdering them, the fathers not necessarily do. It is more common for fathers to actually create a physical distance between their children and themselves, to disassociate.

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Again, I do not know much about your society, my point of reference is the US. I'm a forensic profiler, and work with custody cases, but my recommendations are based on a lot of tests and data.

Children who grow up with a parent with a personality disorder don't fair well later in life. If there is domestic violence, you should absolutely leave.

Seek a therapist or seek some sort of help to evaluate the situation and plan ahead. Empower yourself.

Filicide is very uncommon, there are a lot of things that come into play, not just a personality disorder. There is a fairly specific set of circumstances that come into play.

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:48 schreef Tchock het volgende:

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Ik neem toch aan dat er een zekere mate van rancune achter zit. Of de kinderen nou dood of levend zijn, en waar ze nu ook zijn, het enkele feit dat hij ze wegvoert van zijn ex-vrouw (met mogelijk erger) is al een afschuwelijke daad. Niet?

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Op maandag 13 mei 2013 01:49 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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En dat zou dan terecht zijn ofzo?? *laatmenietlachen*