Oorlog in Libië #95. Wie A zegt, moet ook B zeggen! Buigen of barsten!

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Reuters - Misurata - "They used tanks, rocket-propelled grenades, mortar rounds and other projectiles to hit the city today. It was random and very intense bombardment," the spokesman, called Sami, told Reuters by telephone. "We no longer recognize the place. The destruction cannot be described."

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BBC television quoted a Libyan doctor as saying a coalition air strike had killed seven civilians, mostly children, and wounded another 25 near the oil town of Brega on Wednesday.

The doctor said he had been called to a village 15 km (9 miles) from Brega after the strike hit a pro-Gaddafi military convoy. A trailer containing ammunition exploded between two homes, killing girls and young men aged between 12 and 20, the BBC said on Friday. The report has not been confirmed.

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Op vrijdag 1 april 2011 23:46 schreef svann het volgende:
De onderste twee alinea's van je quote gaan over Brega, de bovenste over Misrata.

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 00:27 schreef zoefbust het volgende:
BEIJING, April 1 (Xinhua) -- Chinese Vice Premier Li Keqiang met announce today that China would be joining the coalition enforcing United Nations Security Council Resolution 1970.

"China takes her responsibilities seriously. We have a responsibility to protect the innocents. The Chinese people today demands that we extend our protection to whomever that needs our protection. Protecting women and children should not be about national priorities," Li told Westerwelle, who is also Germany's foreign minister.

China always attaches great importance to Responsibility to Protect, Li said.

Though different in strategic outlook, China, like NATO, cannot standby while Qaddafy slaughters his own people.

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Gaddafi's sons show psychological warfare is not all on the western side
As the Libya conflict enters its third month, Whitehall is full of whispered talk of secret defections and cloak-and-dagger deals with more "reasonable" elements within the much-weakened Tripoli regime. The embattled sons of Muammar Gaddafi are looking for a way out, and may even be prepared to dump their father to save their own skins – or so the grapevine has it.

Security analysts and diplomatic insiders see things differently. It's clear, they say, that after weeks of inconclusive conflict, neither side can win a military victory. Without a western ground invasion, the rebels are not strong enough to dislodge Gaddafi. So instead, Britain and the US are increasingly engaged in psychological warfare in the hope of fomenting internal dissension and regime collapse. This campaign includes disinformation about the other side's intentions.

The revamped approach apparently scored a big success this week with the defection of Moussa Koussa, Gaddafi's foreign minister. But two can play at this game. Gaddafi's most prominent sons, Saif al-Islam and Mutassim, the national security adviser, were also waging their own "war of nerves", the sources said. They appeared to be calculating that the Nato-led coalition will run out of time, split apart, and forfeit crucial Arab and domestic support.

Far from genuinely looking for a solution, the brothers' strategy comprises unofficial "back door" offers of time-consuming talks, floating vague ideas of an "honourable" exit for their father, and impracticable suggestions that they could help form a unity government, the sources suggested.

"Psychological warfare is being waged by western governments in order to hasten the crumbling of the regime," said Jonathan Eyal, director of international security studies at the Royal United Services Institute in London. "The big hope for western strategy is to avoid a drift into stalemate and avoid putting boots on the ground and hope it [the regime] collapses from within.

"But they don't have much time. So they are saying, look, the foreign minister has defected to London, there are lots of other defections, look, the [regime] structure is folding. They say this to sow confusion in Tripoli and also to reassure the media, people like yourselves, that they know what they are doing. The London conference [on Libya last Monday] delivered the same message," Eyal said. "There is a slight element of hype. It suits western governments to fluff it up as much as possible."

A diplomatic source with close knowledge of Libya expressed scepticism about uncorroborated suggestions that Saif, Mutassim and another Gaddafi son, Saadi, had proposed a deal in which they would stay in office but their father would give up real power.

The Guardian disclosed on Friday that one of Saif's close aides, Mohammed Ismail, has held talks in London with government officials.

"Saif has had to do what his dad says," the source said. "He's had to choose between family loyalties and the need for reform and bringing Libya up to date. For the past eight or nine years, he chose reform. But blood has proved stronger."

The idea of a national unity government including Gaddafi's sons and members of the rebels' national council was probably unworkable and would not satisfy the western coalition as, under that scenario, the Gaddafi clan would have survived in power. At the same time, the sons were too tainted by their close association with the regime to hope to successfully distance themselves from it at this late stage, the source added.

"It's a pretty dire look-out for all the brothers. No one wants them. Where would they live? What sort of life would it be? We can't just tell them to surrender and come to the UK. The law would catch up with them," the source said.

"There are a lot of rumours being put about. A lot of material has been put in play. The fact is, they [the Nato coalition] have not had a lot of success in getting rid of Gaddafi. They don't want to put boots on the ground. They've said they're going to do it legally. But they can't do it militarily. So they've found other means of proceeding."

Psychological pressure on the regime increased significantly on Thursday when the New York Times and the Washington Post had stories, quoting unidentified US officials, claiming that Barack Obama had secretly authorised covert operations inside Libya to assist the rebels. David Cameron's statement this week that Britain has not ruled out supplying arms to the rebels in eastern Libya also appeared to be part of the escalating war of nerves. No weapons have actually been sent.

Eyal said it was likely Gaddafi's sons were also pursuing a form of psychological warfare by making proposals that could deflect the US and Britain from their purpose of removing Gaddafi.

"It's plausible that feelers [about a deal] are being put out. But it's unlikely anyone is going to like it. It would indicate a certain sense of desperation in the Gaddafi ranks," Eyal said.

"It may also be an attempt to divide the coalition and knock out the Arab countries. The Arabs are hardly involved already. What the regime is saying to the Arab world is that there could be a reasonable deal on the table and the west won't take it. They want to turn the conflict into the west versus the Arabs."

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 00:36 schreef zoefbust het volgende:
ik denk een 1 april grap hoor

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 00:36 schreef zoefbust het volgende:
ik denk een 1 april grap hoor

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 00:41 schreef svann het volgende:
_{Oeps, verkeerd.}

Wat was de bron eigenlijk?

SPOILER: Translated: Comprehensive audio update on today s events in Misratah

Om spoilers te kunnen lezen moet je zijn ingelogd. Je moet je daarvoor eerst gratis Registreren. Ook kun je spoilers niet lezen als je een ban hebt.

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 00:46 schreef zoefbust het volgende:

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The full quote from Musa Ibrahim, the government spokesman, when rejecting the opposition's conditions for a ceasefire:

The rebels never offered any peace.....we are the ones who offered peace weeks ago, and we said we are going to talk, and let's sit down and everything. The rebels are not offering peace. If you are making impossible demands, it's a trick, it's a trick. So, okay, I could come to the rebels and say: 'rebels, I offer you peace, get out of Benghazi on a ship, this is my condition.' You can't do that. These are our cities, these are the cities of the Libyan government. You hate this government? You can hate it. Many people hate their governments. That's not the question. If you want peace, you keep things as they are, you sit down and you negotiate. But to make impossible demands is a trick. So what they are doing is not a genuine wish for peace." bron

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Amnesty International - Rana El-Aqbani, a detained Syrian national and journalist, appeared in an interview on Libyan state television and was grilled in a very aggressive way that seemed more like an interrogation. Watch below, with commentary from Amnesty International Libya researcher Kiana Eltahawy:

Detained female journalist interrogated on Libyan television

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 00:43 schreef zoefbust het volgende:
wat zien die steden er uit nu (Misrata)

[ afbeelding ]

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 03:34 schreef MisterJ.Lo het volgende:

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Zonde dat het er daar zo aan toegaat door een infantiele leider.

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Op vrijdag 1 april 2011 23:33 schreef svann het volgende:
Misratah Video: wreckage of Gaddafis military convoy after coalition air strikes today

Wefaq Media have uploaded a video that shows Gaddafis military convoy that attempted to enter Misratah from the heavy goods entrance. The convoy was composed of one tank and a number of military trucks.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1937525599233

Dankbare Misrata verdedigers komen het schroot checken.
Wat een herrie. Zij zijn natuurlijk wel wat gewend als ze al twee weken beschoten worden.

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 04:10 schreef popolon het volgende:


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Ja, da's inderdaad iets wat niet te verwachten was.

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 10:26 schreef MisterJ.Lo het volgende:

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Probeer je nu semi grappig te doen knul.

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 10:28 schreef Megumi het volgende:

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In elk geval is Nederland weer kansloos bezig. Wil een beetje meedoen om populair te blijven zonder echt een juiste strategie en tactiek toe te passen om de vijand te verslaan.

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 10:30 schreef MisterJ.Lo het volgende:

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Ik ben het inderdaad eens dat Nederland op de wijze en onder deze voorwaarden niets te zoeken heeft in Libië.

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 10:37 schreef abdalfawaz het volgende:

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Pure geldverspilling en geveinsde image building. Andere Europese landen hebben het beter voor elkaar.

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 01:50 schreef popolon het volgende:
Wat een zooitje weer. Nu heb je te doen met een stel rebellen waar communicatie een nieuw voor woord is.

Als K, of G, niet snel opstapt gaat dit weer jaren duren. En dan krijg je het volgende probleem, wie gaat deze puinhoop weer in handen nemen?

't Zal wel weer een backfire situatie worden over een jaar of wat.

What a mess.

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In Libië worden de armour piercing-Tomahawkraketten gebruikt tegen Libische tanks van Kaddafi. Iedere raket bevat 360 kg verarmd uranium. Hiermee is tot nu toe minstens 40 Ton verarmd uranium in het Libische en mondiale milieu terechtgekomen.

Onschuldige burgers in de omgeving van de doelwitten en in de hele streek, buurlanden en wereldwijd worden zo slachtoffer van stralingsbesmetting van deze wapens en de UNO is goed op de hoogte van dit feit.

We kennen het vreselijke effect van deze wapens en de gevolgen ervan voor de menselijke gezondheid, vooral voor kinderen en ongeborenen, bijvoorbeeld in Irak, waar de vrouwen van Falhujah niet langer kinderen kunnen krijgen wegens het grote gevaar voor voortijdige bevalling en ernstige misvormingen, als direct gevolg van deze wapens.

De ministers van defensie en de militaire leiders kennen ten volle de implicaties van het gebruik van deze wapens, Decrem inbegrepen.

Getuigt het van de totale wereldvreemdheid van de politiek en onze vertegenwoordigers in het Parlement die unaniem de deelname van België aan Odyssee Dawn goedkeurden onder de pretext van het beschermen van de Libische bevolking , en daarmee een vrijgeleide gaven om met massavernietigingswapens (WMD's) een nieuwe misdaad tegen de menselijkheid te plegen met als eerste slachtoffer de Libische bevolking?

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 01:43 schreef MangoTree het volgende:
Kusa's wife captured in Tripoli (UPI)

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Libya: wife of defecting foreign minister captured in firefight

The wife of the Libyan foreign minister who defected to Britain earlier this week has been seized by Colonel Gaddafi and is being interrogated by his "internal security" officials, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

She is thought to have been captured amid eyewitness reports of a fierce gunfight at Col Gaddafi's central Tripoli compound as the regime stepped in to stop further defections.

Yesterday, local residents recalled how the most fierce firefight yet seen in central Tripoli had erupted within hours of the regime confirming that the Foreign Minister had defected.

"The blocks in that area are the homes to high ranking official of the state who must live close to Col Gaddafi. People say that some of them were trying to flee with their families when they came under attack from the guards," said a local resident.

"They gave as they got but there was a panic that the regime had to cover up."

"In the morning they were still cleaning up the blood," he said. "It was a big operation."

Gunfire is not unusual after dark in Tripoli as residents use newly issued Kalashnikov AK-47 weapons to "celebrate" victory claims on state television. But witnesses said the prolonged battle around the Bab al-Azzizia neighbourhood was the worst fighting in the capital since the rebel uprising was crushed last month.

"It wasn't just AK-47 celebratory firing off, it was heavy exchanges, a proper battle," another onlooker said.

Potential defectors were yesterday under pressure to make public statements of loyalty to the regime and Gaddafi double the number of guards on leading figures and their families, according to one aide. Relatives said that suspect bureaucrats were being questioned by internal security.

Shurki Ghanem, a former prime minister who heads the state oil company and had been said to have defected after leaving for Tunisia with the Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa, issued a statement in Tripoli saying that he was still in office.

Omar Durdah, the head of the overseas intelligence agency, told State television that he had not left the country.

"I am in Libya and will remain here steadfast in the same camp of the revolution despite everything," Mr Dorda said. "I never thought to cross the borders or violate commitment to the people, the revolution and the leader."

The family of Moussa Koussa, the Libyan Foreign Secretary, were previously thought to have also fled to Britain. His wife's detention in Libya is likely to be part of an attempt to stop her husband from helping MI6.

The Libyan foreign minister is thought to have crucial information about the regime and is also suspected of being involved in terrorist plots across Europe including the Lockerbie bombing.

Last night, Koussa who is currently staying at safe house in southern England was said to be in a "fragile condition".

It is not clear how British authorities will react if he attempts to leave the country.

He is thought to have left Libya after telling the regime he needed medical treatment in Tunisia and the disclosure his wife was left behind may point to a more complicated story being behind his defection than previously thought.

British intelligence agents are thought to be in discussions with about 12 people close to the regime who are considering defecting.

Even the dictator's sons are now rumoured to be considering fleeing the country and Col Gaddafi yesterday imposed a "ring of steel" around key regime figures.

The turmoil at the top of regime emboldened Col Gaddafi's opponents to resume attacks in the eastern suburbs of the capital.

Opposition activists said that Libyan forces were unable to enter the side streets of Tajoura, the Tripoli suburb that was at the forefront of the uprising last month.

An army post came under ambush from two sides according to opposition reports.

Police dramatically stepped up checkpoints around the capital on Thursday night.

Flak jacket wearing militia men inspected cars and questioned drivers after an alert for troublemakers was distributed to the security services.

Earlier this week, a key aide to Saif Gaddafi, the dictator's son, was in Britain and is understood to have floated a scheme which would see Col Gaddafi leave the country with his sons playing a role in a transition government. British officials rejected any such plan.

This weekend is emerging as critical in the civil war in Libya and diplomatic efforts to remove the regime. Yesterday, there were reports that the rebels had regrouped and were better organised to launch a fresh offensive against Libyan forces.

Qatar was also in negotiations with opposition leaders to begin selling oil from rebel-held areas, with the proceeds used to buy humanitarian supplies and possibly even weapons.

Yesterday, David Cameron's spokesman insisted that "no deals" would be offered to any defectors. There was growing pressure on the Prime Minister to allow Scottish detectives investigating the Lockerbie bombing to have access to Koussa.

During a debate in the House of Lords, senior military figures also raised the prospect that British ground forces may be required to remove the dictator.

Lord Robertson, the former Defence Secretary and former Secretary-General of Nato, said: "Defections, there will be more of them, and more the better. The fighting will ebb and flow and assuredly we will be faced with new dilemmas in the next few weeks. Are we simply going to stand back even if boots on the ground could be decisive?"

Lord West, the former first Sea Lord and defence minister, added: "Air power is not decisive and it took the threat of invasion in Kosovo to change the games so we need to be very aware of that."

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Op zaterdag 2 april 2011 11:49 schreef Monidique het volgende:

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Tsja. En dan zit je vijf of tien jaar verder, constante no-fly-zone, Khaddafi blijft zijn gebied terroriseren en als de "internationale gemeenschap" zijn "geloofwaardigheid" niet wil verliezen, moet er nu echt iets gedaan worden, de tiran mag niet aan de macht blijven! Grondtroepen, oorlog, parlementaire commissie 'hoe heeft het zover kunnen komen en kunnen we daar van leren nu met die no-fly-zone boven Soedan'.

Ik heb het al eerder gezegd, deze Westerse oorlog tegen Libie is ondoordacht machoisme, naast illegaal, en na al de debacles in Irak en Kosovo en Somalie en Afghanistan kan je je eigenlijk niet voorstellen dat men dan heel achteloos zegt: ' ach, laten we Libie aanvallen en dan hopen we dat het goed komt en dan zien we wel'. Sowieso, het is een onnodige oorlog en onnodige oorlogen moet je niet voeren.