abonnement Unibet Coolblue Bitvavo
pi_51579192
Een strijd tussen de directe beleving van god en de beleving via kerk en bedienaars. Het christendom kent bijvoorbeeld de Katharen, die uitgeroeid zijn.
Van aard denk ik te horen bij soefi's en Katharen (al heb ik geen idee of er een echte god bestaat!!), maar uit lafheid conformeer ik me makkelijk aan de gangbare wetten.

Bij een beroep op rechtvaardigheid en dergelijke, voel ik mij mezelf meteen terugtrekken op juristerij en geschreven wetten, niet op mijn gevoel.

Als ik me dit morgen nog herinner, dank voor de trigger, Triggershot!
Onderschat nooit de kracht van domme mensen in grote groepen!
Der Irrsinn ist bei Einzelnen etwas Seltenes - aber bei Gruppen, Parteien, Völkern, Zeiten die Regel. (Friedrich Nietzsche)
pi_51586359
Zoals je soefisme hier presenteerd lijkt het me een geweldig geloof maar waarom is het dan zo klein/onpopulair? Je wordt er rustig van, tolerant, puur en zuiver, je kunt Allah ontmoeten (als je je best doet, oprecht bent), je mag zelfs verdovende middelen gebruiken en daarna gezellig onder het eten kletsen over je spirituele ervaringen. Wat is het addertje onder het gras dat zelfs moslims dit niet willen volgen (maar liever kennelijk slechts toekijken?).
pi_51591177
quote:
Op woensdag 18 juli 2007 10:58 schreef jiva het volgende:
Zoals je soefisme hier presenteerd lijkt het me een geweldig geloof maar waarom is het dan zo klein/onpopulair? Je wordt er rustig van, tolerant, puur en zuiver, je kunt Allah ontmoeten (als je je best doet, oprecht bent), je mag zelfs verdovende middelen gebruiken en daarna gezellig onder het eten kletsen over je spirituele ervaringen. Wat is het addertje onder het gras dat zelfs moslims dit niet willen volgen (maar liever kennelijk slechts toekijken?).
Omdat soefisme het tegenovergestelde van mainstream islam is.
Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
pi_51596557
Soefisme komt nog het meest bij pure Islam

oh en dit klopt niet wat er die wiki staat:
Het soefisme (ook wel tasawwoef) is een mystieke traditie die zijn oorsprong heeft in de Zoroastrisme en hindoeïsme die later door islam overgenomen.

edit: oh, het is ook alweer verkracht
pi_51596853
quote:
Op woensdag 18 juli 2007 15:57 schreef k3vil het volgende:
Soefisme komt nog het meest bij pure Islam
Wat jij wil. Dan is 95% van de moslims maar in heel beperkte mate moslim.
Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
pi_51597501
quote:
Op woensdag 18 juli 2007 16:08 schreef Overlast het volgende:

[..]

Wat jij wil. Dan is 95% van de moslims maar in heel beperkte mate moslim.
Ja so what? Shia is maar 10% van de moslims en heeft evenveel recht op de Islam als Ahl-Sunnah.
pi_51597658
The Origin of Sufism
quote:
As the history of Islamic religious sciences tells us, religious commandments were not written down during the early days of Islam; rather, the practice and oral circulation of commandments related to belief, worship, and daily life allowed the people to memorize them.

Thus it was easy to compile them in books later on, for what had been memorized and practiced was simply written down. In addition, since religious commandments were the vital issues in a Muslim's individual and collective life, scholars gave priority to them and compiled books on them. Legal scholars collected and codified books on Islamic law and its rules and principles pertaining to all fields of life. Traditionists established the Prophetic traditions (hadiths) and way of life (Sunna), and preserved them in books. Theologians dealt with issues concerning Muslim belief. Interpreters of the Qur'an dedicated themselves to studying its meaning, including issues that would later be called "Qur'anic sciences," such as naskh (abrogation of a law), inzal (God's sending down the entire Qur'an at one time), tanzil (God's sending down the Qur'an in parts on different occasions), qira'at (Qur'anic recitation), ta'wil (exegesis), and others.

Thanks to these efforts that remain universally appreciated in the Muslim world, the truths and principles of Islam were established in such a way that their authenticity cannot be doubted.

While some scholars were engaged in these "outer" activities, Sufi masters were mostly concentrating on the Muhammadan Truth's pure spiritual dimension. They sought to reveal the essence of humanity's being, the real nature of existence, and the inner dynamics of humanity and the cosmos by calling attention to the reality of that which lies beneath and beyond their outer dimension. Adding to Qur'anic commentaries, narrations of Traditionists, and deductions of legal scholars, Sufi masters developed their ways through asceticism, spirituality, and self-purification in short, their practice and experience of religion.

Thus the Islamic spiritual life based on asceticism, regular worship, abstention from all major and minor sins, sincerity and purity of intention, love and yearning, and the individual's admission of his or her essential impotence and destitution became the subject matter of Sufism, a new science possessing its own method, principles, rules, and terms. Even if various differences gradually emerged among the orders that were established later, it can be said that the basic core of this science has always been the essence of the Muhammadan Truth.

The two aspects of the same truth the commandments of the Shari'a and Sufism have sometimes been presented as mutually exclusive. This is quite unfortunate, as Sufism is nothing more than the spirit of the Shari'a, which is made up of austerity, self-control and criticism, and the continuous struggle to resist the temptations of Satan and the carnal, evil-commanding self in order to fulfill religious obligations. While adhering to the former has been regarded as exotericism (self-restriction to Islam's outer dimension), following the latter has been seen as pure esotericism. Although this discrimination arises partly from assertions that the commandments of the Shari'a are represented by legal scholars or muftis, and the other by Sufis, it should be viewed as the result of the natural, human tendency of assigning priority to that way which is most suitable for the individual practitioner.

Many legal scholars, Traditionists, and interpreters of the Qur'an produced important books based on the Qur'an and the Sunna. The Sufis, following methods dating back to the time of the Prophet and his Companions, also compiled books on austerity and spiritual struggle against carnal desires and temptations, as well as states and stations of the spirit. They also recorded their own spiritual experiences, love, ardor, and rapture. The goal of such literature was to attract the attention of those whom they regarded as restricting their practice and reflection to the "outer" dimension of religion, and directing it to the "inner" dimension of religious life.

Both Sufis and scholars sought to reach God by observing the Divine obligations and prohibitions. Nevertheless, some extremist attitudes occasionally observed on both sides caused disagreements. Actually there was no substantial disagreement, and it should not have been viewed as a disagreement, for it only involved dealing with different aspects and elements of religion under different titles. The tendency of specialists in jurisprudence to concern themselves with the rules of worship and daily life and how to regulate and discipline individual and social life, and that of Sufis to provide a way to live at a high level of spirituality through self-purification and spiritual training, cannot be considered a disagreement.

In fact, Sufism and jurisprudence are like the two schools of a university that seeks to teach its students the two dimensions of the Shari'a so that they can practice it in their daily lives. One school cannot survive without the other, for while one teaches how to pray, be ritually pure, fast, give charity, and how to regulate all aspects of daily life, the other concentrates on what these and other actions really mean, how to make worship an inseparable part of one's existence, and how to elevate each individual to the rank of a universal, perfect being (al-insan al-kamil) a true human being. That is why neither discipline can be neglected.

Although some self-proclaimed Sufis have labeled religious scholars "scholars of ceremonies" and "exoterists," real, per-fected Sufis have always depended on the basic principles of the Shari'a and have based their thoughts on the Qur'an and the Sunna. They have derived their methods from these basic sources of Islam. Al-Wasaya wa al-Ri'aya (The Advices and Observation of Rules) by al-Muhasibi, Al-Ta'arruf li-Madhhab Ahl al-Sufi (A Description of the Way of the People of Sufism) by Kalabazi, Al-Luma' (The Gleams) by al-Tusi, Qut al-Qulub (The Food of Hearts) by Abu Talib al-Makki, and Al-Risala al-Qushayri (The Treatise) by al-Qushayri are among the precious sources that discuss Sufism according to the Qur'an and the Sunna. Some of these sources concentrate on self-control and self-purification, while others elaborate upon various topics of concern to Sufis.

After these great compilers came Hujjat al-Islam Imam al-Ghazzali, author of Ihya' al-'Ulum al-Din (Reviving the Religious Sciences), his most celebrated work. He reviewed all of Sufism's terms, principles, and rules, and, establishing those agreed upon by all Sufi masters and criticizing others, united the outer (Shari'a and jurisprudence) and inner (Sufi) dimensions of Islam. Sufi masters who came after him presented Sufism as one of the religious sciences or a dimension thereof, promoting unity or agreement among themselves and the so-called "scholars of ceremonies." In addition, the Sufi masters made several Sufi subjects, such as the states of the spirit, certainty or conviction, sincerity and morality, part of the curriculum of madrassas (institutes for the study of religious sciences).

Although Sufism mostly concentrates on the individual's inner world and deals with the meaning and effect of religious commandments on one's spirit and heart and is therefore abstract, it does not contradict any of the Islamic ways based on the Qur'an and the Sunna. In fact, as is the case with other religious sciences, its source is the Qur'an and the Sunna, as well as the conclusions drawn from the Qur'an and the Sunna via ijtihad (deduction) by the purified scholars of the early period of Islam. It dwells on knowledge, knowledge of God, certainty, sincerity, perfect goodness, and other similar, fundamental virtues.

Defining Sufism as the "science of esoteric truths or mysteries," or the "science of humanity's spiritual states and stations," or the "science of initiation" does not mean that it is completely different from other religious sciences. Such definitions have resulted from the Shari'a-rooted experiences of various individuals, all of whom have had different temperaments and dispositions, and who lived at different times.

It is a distortion to present the viewpoints of Sufis and the thoughts and conclusions of Shari'a scholars as essentially different from each other. Although some Sufis were fanatic adherents of their own ways, and some religious scholars (i.e., legal scholars, Traditionists, and interpreters of the Qur'an) did restrict themselves to the outer dimension of religion, those who follow and represent the middle, straight path have always formed the majority. Therefore it is wrong to conclude that there is a serious disagreement (which most likely began with some unbecoming thoughts and words uttered by some legal scholars and Sufis against each other) between the two groups.

When compared with those who spoke for tolerance and consensus, those who have started or participated in such conflicts are very few indeed. This is natural, for both groups have always depended on the Qur'an and the Sunna, the two main sources of Islam.

In addition, the priorities of Sufism have never been different from those of jurisprudence. Both disciplines stress the importance of belief and of engaging in good deeds and good conduct. The only difference is that Sufis emphasize self-purification, deepening the meaning of good deeds and multiplying them, and attaining higher standards of good morals so that one's conscience can awaken to the knowledge of God and thus embark upon a path leading to the required sincerity in living Islam and obtaining God's pleasure.

By means of these virtues, men and women can acquire another nature, "another heart" (a spiritual intellect within the heart), a deeper knowledge of God, and another "tongue" with which to mention God. All of these will help them to observe the Shari'a commandments based on a deeper awareness of, and with a disposition for, devotion to God.

An individual practitioner of Sufism can use it to deepen his or her spirituality. Through the struggle with one's self, solitude or retreat, invocation, self-control and self-criticism, the veils covering the inner dimension of existence are torn apart, enabling the individual to acquire a strong conviction of the truth of all of Islam's major and minor principles. Sep 1994, Vol 16, Issue 188
pi_51597693
What Is Sufism?
quote:
Sufism has been defined in many ways. Some see it as God's annihilating the individual's ego, will, and self-centeredness and then reviving him or her spiritually with the lights of His Essence. Such a transformation results in God's directing the individual's will in accordance with His Will. Others view it as a continuous striving to cleanse one's self of all that is bad or evil in order to acquire virtue.

Junayd al-Baghdadi, a famous Sufi master, defines Sufism as a method of recollecting "self-annihilation in God" and "permanence or subsistence with God." Shibli summarizes it as always being together with God or in His presence, so that no worldly or other-worldly aim is even entertained. Abu Muhammad Jarir describes it as resisting the temptations of the carnal self and bad qualities, and acquiring laudable moral qualities.

There are some who describe Sufism as seeing behind the "outer" or surface appearance of things and events and interpreting whatever happens in the world in relation to God. This means that a person regards every act of God as a window to "see" Him, lives his life as a continuous effort to view or "see" Him with a profound, spiritual "seeing" indescribable in physical terms, and with a profound awareness of being continually overseen by Him.

All of these definitions can be summarized as follows: Sufism is the path followed by an individual who, having been able to free himself or herself from human vices and weaknesses in order to acquire angelic qualities and conduct pleasing to God, lives in accordance with the requirements of God's knowledge and love, and in the resulting spiritual delight that ensues.

Sufism is based on observing even the most "trivial" rules of the Shari'a in order to penetrate their inner meaning. An initiate or traveler on the path (salik) never separates the outer observance of the Shari'a from its inner dimension, and therefore observes all of the requirements of both the outer and the inner dimensions of Islam. Through such observance, he or she travels toward the goal in utmost humility and submission.

Sufism, being a demanding path leading to knowledge of God, has no room for negligence or frivolity. It requires the initiate to strive continuously, like a honeybee flying from the hive to flowers and from flowers to the hive, to acquire this knowledge. The initiate should purify his or her heart from all other attachments; resist all carnal inclinations, desires, and appetites; and live in a manner reflecting the knowledge with which God has revived and illumined his or her heart, always ready to receive divine blessing and inspiration, as well as in strict observance of the Prophet Muhammad's example. Convinced that attachment and adherence to God is the greatest merit and honor, the initiate should renounce his or her own desires for the demands of God, the Truth.

After these [preliminary] definitions, we should discuss the aim, benefits, and principles of Sufism.

Sufism requires the strict observance of all religious obligations, an austere lifestyle, and the renunciation of carnal desires. Through this method of spiritual self-discipline, the individual's heart is purified and his or her senses and faculties are employed in the way of God, which means that the traveler can now begin to live on a spiritual level.

Sufism also enables individuals, through the constant worship of God, to deepen their awareness of themselves as devotees of God. Through the renunciation of this transient, material world, as well as the desires and emotions it engenders, they awaken to the reality of the other world, which is turned toward God's Divine Beautiful Names. Sufism allows individuals to develop the moral dimension of one's existence, and enables the acquisition of a strong, heartfelt, and personally experienced conviction of the articles of faith that before had only been accepted superficially.

The principles of Sufism may be listed as follows:

- Reaching true belief in God's Divine Oneness and living in accordance with its demands.

- Heeding the Divine Speech (the Qur'an), discerning and then obeying the commands of the Divine Power and Will as they relate to the universe (the laws of creation and life).

- Overflowing with Divine Love and getting along with all other beings in the realization (originating from Divine Love) that the universe is a cradle of brotherhood.

- Giving preference or precedence to the well-being and happiness of others.

- Acting in accord with the demands of the Divine Will not with the demands of our own will and living in a manner that reflects our self-annihilation in God and subsistence with Him.

- Being open to love, spiritual yearning, delight, and ecstasy.

- Being able to discern what is in hearts or minds through facial expressions and the inner, Divine mysteries and meanings of surface events.

- Visiting spiritual places and associating with people who encourage the avoidance of sin and striving in the way of God.

- Being content with permitted pleasures, and not taking even a single step toward that which is not permitted.

- Struggling continuously against worldly ambitions and illusions, which lead us to believe that this world is eternal.

- Never forgetting that salvation is possible only through certainty or conviction of the truth of religious beliefs and conduct, sincerity or purity of intention, and the sole desire to please God.

Two other elements may be added: acquiring knowledge and understanding of the religious and gnostic sciences, and following a perfected, spiritual master's guidance. Both of these are of considerable significance in the Naqshbandiyah Sufi order.

It may be useful to discuss Sufism according to the following basic concepts, which often form the core of books written on good morals, manners, and asceticism, and which are viewed as the sites of the "Muhammadan Truth" in one's heart. They can also be considered lights by which to know and follow the spiritual path leading to God.

The first and foremost of these concepts is wakefulness (yaqaza), which is alluded to in the Prophetic saying (hadith): My eyes sleep but my heart does not, and in the saying of 'Ali, the fourth Caliph: Men are asleep. They wake up when they die. The many other stages on this path will be discussed, at some length, in this book. Aug 1994, Vol 16, Issue 187
pi_51597861
Voor mij adembenemend relaxend en mooi:

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=2621370993039102133

Illustratie: dmv de meditatie hierboven stijgt de ziel naar het Goddelijke.
pi_51620079
Ik vind het een mooi symbool dat tijdens de derwish dans de ene hand omhoog en de andere naar beneden is. De hand omhoog ontvangt van God en de hand naar beneden geeft het door aan anderen. Je bent een kanaal voor God naar de wereld zonder zelf meer te nemen dan je nodig hebt.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand. - Albert Einstein
I'm here to lead, not to read.
pi_51620308
quote:
Op donderdag 19 juli 2007 10:31 schreef Forkbender het volgende:
Ik vind het een mooi symbool dat tijdens de derwish dans de ene hand omhoog en de andere naar beneden is. De hand omhoog ontvangt van God en de hand naar beneden geeft het door aan anderen. Je bent een kanaal voor God naar de wereld zonder zelf meer te nemen dan je nodig hebt.
Houdingen zijn meer dan een symbool alleen.
Mooi inderdaad.
Kol haneshama Tehalel Yah
"When I read the Bhagavad Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous". (Einstein)
pi_51620471
quote:
Op woensdag 18 juli 2007 16:36 schreef Triggershot het volgende:
What Is Sufism?
[..]
Ik zal deze week es rondkijken naar zoiets in het nederlands. Wel gezond om af en toe eens de blik op de spirituele beoefening van andere stromingen te richten. Bijzonder inspirerend altijd
Kol haneshama Tehalel Yah
"When I read the Bhagavad Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous". (Einstein)
pi_51623869
Sufisme ook wel bekend als Tasawwuf, een wetenschap.

Een van de eerste principes naar mijn weten is dat het niet de Islamitische wetten mag tegengaan, er zijn verschillende geleerden geweest die Sufis hebben geprezen omdat ze zich en aan de wetten hielden en bezig hielden met de innerlijke beleving van Islam. En er zijn geleerden geweest die erg veel kritiek op Sufis hadden, vandaar dat er altijd veel commotie over is.

Helaas zijn er ook bij die drug en dergelijke gebruiken om high te worden, wat dus tegen de Islamitische waarden ingaat, en toch de naam Sufi gebruiken.

Door de naam Sufisme lijkt het net of het een andere stroming in Islam is, wat het niet perse is.
In Afghanistan heb je veel Soennitische Moslims die ook Sufi zijn, Tsjetsjenie ook van oorsprong en ook landen als Turkije, Egypte, Marokko. Soedan en Pakistan/India zijn er ook erg veel.
X
pi_51630379
Maar wervelende derwisjen zijn niet de enige soefi stroming(wel bekendste),je hebt letterlijk duizenden stromingen.
Op zaterdag 23 juni 2007 18:54 schreef MASD het volgende:
Double-Helix is mijn held vandaag! _O_
pi_51644282
Hier derwisjen in Amsterdam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwQSINWEg0&mode=related&search=

Zijn genoeg filmpjes van te vinden. Ik kan mij herinneren er ook wel eens een documentaire erover gezien te hebben op de Nederlandse televisie.
Article 1 Universal Declaration of Human Rights
'All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.'
pi_51645648
quote:
Op donderdag 19 juli 2007 23:36 schreef Triggershot het volgende:
Megashow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s63r-8t2ugA
Ik zou het ook wel eens in Nederland willen zien, maar ja, dan moet je wel net weten wanneer er wat te zien is.
Article 1 Universal Declaration of Human Rights
'All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.'
pi_51645763
quote:
Op donderdag 19 juli 2007 23:46 schreef rutger05 het volgende:

[..]

Ik zou het ook wel eens in Nederland willen zien, maar ja, dan moet je wel net weten wanneer er wat te zien is.
Nederlandse docu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNb7SpkOsgg deel 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdv3VCTcPxU deel 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUKHOFAMYFc deel 3

Als ik wat tegenkom laat ik het je weten.
pi_51645783
quote:
Op donderdag 19 juli 2007 23:50 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

[..]

Nederlandse docu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNb7SpkOsgg deel 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdv3VCTcPxU deel 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUKHOFAMYFc deel 3

Als ik wat tegenkom laat ik het je weten.
Mijn dank, dat stel ik zeer op prijs.
Article 1 Universal Declaration of Human Rights
'All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.'
pi_51645820
quote:
Op donderdag 19 juli 2007 23:50 schreef rutger05 het volgende:

[..]

Mijn dank, dat stel ik zeer op prijs.
np.
abonnement Unibet Coolblue Bitvavo
Forum Opties
Forumhop:
Hop naar:
(afkorting, bv 'KLB')