Link linkt namelijk niet.
zie ook mijn andere topic
voorbeeld (werd me gisteren verteld op een college door een docent journalistiek):
hij kende een Belgische reporter in de Golfoorlog, maar alleen de grote landen mochten journalisten sturen. at deed ze? Ze zocht een woestijn op, deed een stand-up verslag en zette vervolgens tank- en schietgeluiden eronder.
want Belgische media mochten van de VS Irak niet in
wow, als ze dat echt gedaan hebben, hoeso propaganda.. shiiiit
over zoiets belangrijks gaan ze toch nie liegen.. wel?? 
quote:Klinkt lekker
Desert oorlog
Dat kan dus niet slaan op de inval van Irak in Koeweit.
Broodje Aap
Godverd@#$%, ik vrees dat cnn er wel in is geslaagd om een oorlog te beginnen...
De haat t.o.v. het midden-oosten is nu op zijn top...
Verschrikkelijk deze actie..
Ik keur dat absoluut niet goed..
Pak de daders maar das veel belangrijker als deze haat opzetten..
quote:En mensen met GSM's op de achtergrond!
Op vrijdag 14 september 2001 17:35 schreef PsyClone het volgende:
Hmmmm... ik zou die beelden nog eens moeten bekijken, maar ik herinner mij dat een van die pipo's in een beslebusje zit. Dat is volgens mij een vrij nieuwe Ford Transit.. niet het soort busje wat je in 1991 in die gebieden tegenkwam, volgens mij. Misschien heb ik het nu over andere beelden... maar de beelden die ik zag kwamen op mij toch ZEER recent over!
Die hadden ze ook niet in '91
Ik geloof d'r niet zo in.
quote:Natuurlijk waren die beelden van echte Palestijnen anno 2001. De verwarring die er nu wordt gesticht zal wel het werk van Arabische elementen zijn.
Op vrijdag 14 september 2001 17:30 schreef maanmeisje het volgende:
HUHHHHHHHHHHHH... dat doet CNN toch niet?!?!
wow, als ze dat echt gedaan hebben, hoeso propaganda.. shiiiitover zoiets belangrijks gaan ze toch nie liegen.. wel??
Maar iedereen loopt hier juichend en/of boe roepend achter iedere niet geautoriseerde-link aan lijkt het wel.
quote:
CNN USING 1991 FOOTAGE of celebrating Palistinians to manipulate you (english)
by Marcio 10:32pm Wed Sep 12 '01 (Modified on 7:40am Fri Sep 14 '01)
.
I'd like to add some ideas from here, down south.
There's an important point in the power of press, specifically the power of CNN.
All around the world we are subjected to 3 or 4 huge news distributors,
and one of them - as you well know - is CNN. Very well, I guess all of
you have been seeing (just as I've been) images from this company. In
particular, one set of images called my attencion: the Palestinians
celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating some cake and making
funny faces for the camera.Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of
Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It's simply
unacceptable that a super-power of cumminications as CNN uses images
which do not correspond to the reality in talking about so serious an
issue.A teacher of mine, here in Brazil, has videotapes recorded in 1991, with
the very same images; he's been sending emails to CNN, Globo (the major
TV network in Brazil) and newspapers, denouncing what I myself classify
as a crime against the public opinion. If anyone of you has access to
this kind of files, serch for it. In the meanwhile, I'll try to 'put my
hands' on a copy of this tape.But now, think for a moment about the impact of such images. Your people
is hurt, emotionally fragile, and this kind broadcast have very high
possibility of causing waves of anger and rage against Palestinians.
It's simply irresponsible to show images such as those.Finally, I'd like to say that we all regret and condemn all that has
happened in the last days; but Nikos has a point here. I really don't
want to be misunderstood here, but the truth is that US government had
shown no respect for other countries in the last decades. In the 60s and
70s they had halped lots of military coups throughout the world
(including Brazil in 64). Later, with Reagan and Bush Father, the
Washington Consensus have been demolishing the bases of our economies,
making us more and more dependant (and, many of us, prehocupied with
this situation).Your current president quickly made things worse: Kioto Protocol, Star
Wars, Colombia Plan, the exchange of rain forest for pieces of external
debt, tha abandonment of the position of third party in negotiations
between IRA and England, and between Palestinians and Israel. All those
mistakes in US external politics made your country more hatred than
before, and, of course, more vulnerable.Listen, I'm NOT justifying the terrorist actions that took place in your
country; but it seems to me that, if your leaders had come along another
path of thoughts and actions, you wouldn't be suffering what you are
now.Best regards, and the hope that everything is resolved for the best of
all of usMárcio A. V. Carvalho
State University of Campinas - Brazil
quote:Ik studeer ook!
Op vrijdag 14 september 2001 17:40 schreef Sniper het volgende:
Ja die Márcio A. V. Carvalho State University of Campinas - Brazil, (kijk hij studeert!) die zal het wel weten. Laten we direct maar geloven wat hij zegt.
En ik zeg het je dat het Aliens waren! Marsmannetjes! Ik heb het zelf gezien! 
Drs. H. de Kort, Universiteit van Amsterdam.
Ik geloof hier dus niks van.
Kijk mij eens met mijn geweer!
en nog een met veel blije kinderen (=terroristen in de dop)
vast weer n paar islamieten die weer mensen proberen op te zetten tegen de VS
wat n flikkers
[Dit bericht is gewijzigd door paultjûh op 14-09-2001 18:00]
quote:mwoehahaha
super-power of cumminications as CNN
quote:Volgens mij heeft er helemaal geen aanslag plaatsgevonden!
super-power of cumminications as CNN
Het was allemaal propaganda van CNN! Hollywood special effects voor Independence Day II!
Je weet dus echt niet meer wat je wel en niet moet geloven wat daar vandaan komt. Kunnen we die Israeliers en de palestijnen niet gewoon negeren? Zou het allemaal een stuk makkelijker maken...
----------------------------------------------------
Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of
Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait!
--------------------------------------------------
Nou No way dat die palestijnen daarom juichten!
Ze juichten toen voor de scudraketten van Irak op Tel-Aviv.
er stond ook een cameraploeg van tv5 erbij en die brachten wel wat andere dingen in beeld, palastijnen die met verbazing zaten te kijken waarom die kinderen/volwassenen stonden te feesten.
En als er dan kritische geluiden komen, worden deze gebagatelliseerd en afgedaan als gelul.
quote:Als meerdere bronnen het bericht brengen (cnn ap reuters) kan het bericht van een Braziliaanse student inderdaad als gelul worden afgedaan.
Op zaterdag 15 september 2001 12:25 schreef Schorpioen het volgende:
Het is triest dat bijna iedereen alles voor zoete koek slikt wat er op cnn te zien is. Het is op cnn te zien DUS moet het wel waar zijn.
En als er dan kritische geluiden komen, worden deze gebagatelliseerd en afgedaan als gelul.
als dat echt zo is weet ik niet meer wat ik tegenwoordig in deze wereld wel moet geloven! quote:Gek dat niemand hier op reageert, daar zegt hij toch wel effe iets heel belangrijks.
Op zaterdag 15 september 2001 01:57 schreef chris het volgende:
dit is echt en niet verzonnen door cnn.er stond ook een cameraploeg van tv5 erbij en die brachten wel wat andere dingen in beeld, palastijnen die met verbazing zaten te kijken waarom die kinderen/volwassenen stonden te feesten.
quote:Ik vind het eerder triest dat jij dit topic kennelijk niet doorleest.
Op zaterdag 15 september 2001 12:25 schreef Schorpioen het volgende:Het is triest dat bijna iedereen alles voor zoete koek slikt wat er op cnn te zien is. Het is op cnn te zien DUS moet het wel waar zijn.
En als er dan kritische geluiden komen, worden deze gebagatelliseerd en afgedaan als gelul.
Het domweg geloven in een linkje van een of andere halfgare Braziliaanse student vind ik nóg veeeeeeeeeel dommer.
Ik wil niets goed praten, maar voordat je andere mensen halfgaar noemt, is het misschien ook verstandig je goed te verdiepen en te verplaatsen in wat zij eigenlijk willen zeggen/duidelijk maken..
En van dat vlaggetje is volgens mij ook maar gelul. Ze proberen nu alleen maar onze afkeurende mening ten opzichte van propeganda in oorlogsituaties ook nu tegen ons te gebruiken en het werkt nog ook.
Zo zie je maar weer... Internet begint nu ook een gevaarlijke vorm van propeganda aan te nemen.
quote:wie zijn ze?? de media, arabieren, linksen?? wat bedoel je?
Op zaterdag 15 september 2001 15:11 schreef FokSpy het volgende:En van dat vlaggetje is volgens mij ook maar gelul. Ze proberen nu alleen maar onze afkeurende mening ten opzichte van propeganda in oorlogsituaties ook nu tegen ons te gebruiken en het werkt nog ook.
quote:Bron: The Jerusalem Post, 14 september 2001
Foreign Press Association protests PA threats to journalistsBy Jerusalem Post Staff
JERUSALEM (September 14) - The Foreign Press Association expressed deep concern yesterday over life threats made to journalists by the Palestinian Authority, after PA security personnel on Tuesday tried to prevent photo and video coverage of a rally in Nablus where hundreds of Palestinians celebrated the terror attacks in New York and Washington.
The videographer, on assignment for Associated Press Television News, was summoned to a PA security office and told that the material must not be aired. Calls in the name of the Tanzim militia, an armed group associated with Yasser Arafat's Fatah group, warned him he would be held responsible, and made what he interpreted as threats on his life.
Several Palestinian Authority officials spoke to AP in Jerusalem urging that the material not be broadcast. Ahmed Abdel Rahman, Arafat's cabinet secretary, said the Palestinian Authority "cannot guarantee the life" of the cameraman if the footage was broadcast.
The cameraman then requested that the material not be aired. In light of the danger, APTN has not released the footage of the rally in Nablus.
The protest by AP Chief of Bureau Dan Perry said, "I ask the assurances of the Palestinian Authority that you will protect our journalists from threats and attempts at intimidation, and that no harm would come to our freelance cameraman from distribution of the film.
"We strongly condemn the direct threats made against local videographers by local militia members, and the attitude of Palestinian officials who made no effort to counter the threats, control the situation, or to guarantee the safety of the journalists and the freedom of the press," said the FPA.
"We hold the PA fully responsible for the safety of each and every journalist operating within their areas, especially those who were filming and covering Tuesday's events in Nablus."
Asked by telephone about the allegations of harassment, Palestinian Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said: "We deny that."
(AP contributed to this report.)
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/14/News/News.34841.html
-----
En:
quote:Bron: The Jerusalem Post, 16 september 2001
Palestinian Police confiscates footage at Gaza rallyJerusalem Post Staff and Ap
JERUSALEM (September 16) - About 1,500 Palestinians, many supporters of Hamas, marched in a Gaza Strip refugee camp Friday, burning Israeli flags and carrying a large poster of Osama bin Laden, an exiled Saudi millionaire who US Secretary of State Colin Powell has named a key suspect in last week's terror attacks in the United States.
After the rally, plainclothes Palestinian policemen questioned several journalists, including members of foreign news agencies, and confiscated videotape, film, and other camera equipment. An Associated Press Television News video was among the materials taken, and an AP photographer was warned by officials not to publish pictures of the bin Laden poster.
AP protested and demanded the return of the video and other material.
The journalists were told police would review the material before deciding whether or not to release it.
Palestinian Authority officials refused to comment on the record and did not respond immediately to AP's protest.
The Palestinian Police said in a statement that the rally in the Nusseirat refugee camp took place without a permit.
"The Palestinian Police confiscated media material which documented illegal acts," the statement said.
Earlier last week, Palestinian Police stopped camera teams and photographers from covering a rally in Nablus in which several thousand Palestinians celebrated the attacks in the US. Palestinian officials said the demonstration did not represent widespread Palestinian opinion.
According to one source, the Reuters correspondent in Nablus not only agreed to the PA demand not to document the rally, but attempted to press his AP counterpart to follow suit. He was unable to reach him in time. The AP cameraman later received death threats
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/16/News/News.34869.html
De media is 100% ver-commercialiseert (of heo schrrijf je dat¿)
De media heeft de macht.
De mensen geloven wat de media zegt, en nemen dat klakkeloos over.
Denk na, en zorg dat je zelf een mening hebt.
quote:Ja joh...CNN zal heus wel de meest dramatische beelden willen uitzenden, dat wil toch elke nieuwszender? Maar hebben ze niet al vaker de gelegenheid gehad om die feestende Palestijnen als 'controversieel en propagandistisch' nieuws te laten zien tussen 1991 en nu?
Op zaterdag 15 september 2001 12:25 schreef Schorpioen het volgende:
Het is triest dat bijna iedereen alles voor zoete koek slikt wat er op cnn te zien is. Het is op cnn te zien DUS moet het wel waar zijn.
En als er dan kritische geluiden komen, worden deze gebagatelliseerd en afgedaan als gelul.
Geloof dus voor geen meter dat ze die beelden 10 jaar in het archief zouden houden om ze nu voor deze gelegenheid te voorschijn te halen (alsof iemand binnen CNN het zich nog maar zou herinneren dat ze dergelijke beelden hebben!)
Neuh, m.i. zijn die beelden echt wel van nu en wat dat betreft mag ik je misschien verwijzen naar degene die net voor je gepost heeft m.b.t. de tv zender tv5.
Dear all,
Last September 13, I've sent an email to a social theory list in which
I provided some information about the falsity of the images of
Palestinian celebration for the terrorism in USA, information given to
me by a teacher. I spent the last day looking for that teacher, and,
unfortunately, when I found her, she DENIED having access to such
images.
She said that she was sure she had seen the images back in 1991, but
SHE CAN'T PROVE. She was not willing to provide further information,
DENYING what she had said before to a full class of students.
I sincerely apologize for this uncertain information; unfortunately I
can't prove the information contained in my last post; IT'S ONLY A
CONJECTURE, THAT THOSE IMAGES OF PALESTINIANS CELEBRATING IS FALSE. I
bought the idea myself, and reproduced it for you because of the
importance of it, in the case it was to be confirmed.
Whatever news I get I'll pass to you.
Best regards
Márcio A. V. Carvalho
State University of Campinas - Brazil
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CNN USING 1991 FOOTAGE of celebrating Palistinians to manipulate you (english)
by Marcio 10:32pm Wed Sep 12 '01 (Modified on 8:57am Sun Sep 16 '01)
.
I'd like to add some ideas from here, down south.
There's an important point in the power of press, specifically the power of CNN.
All around the world we are subjected to 3 or 4 huge news distributors,
and one of them - as you well know - is CNN. Very well, I guess all of
you have been seeing (just as I've been) images from this company. In
particular, one set of images called my attencion: the Palestinians
celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating some cake and making
funny faces for the camera.
Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of
Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It's simply
unacceptable that a super-power of cumminications as CNN uses images
which do not correspond to the reality in talking about so serious an
issue.
A teacher of mine, here in Brazil, has videotapes recorded in 1991, with
the very same images; he's been sending emails to CNN, Globo (the major
TV network in Brazil) and newspapers, denouncing what I myself classify
as a crime against the public opinion. If anyone of you has access to
this kind of files, serch for it. In the meanwhile, I'll try to 'put my
hands' on a copy of this tape.
But now, think for a moment about the impact of such images. Your people
is hurt, emotionally fragile, and this kind broadcast have very high
possibility of causing waves of anger and rage against Palestinians.
It's simply irresponsible to show images such as those.
Finally, I'd like to say that we all regret and condemn all that has
happened in the last days; but Nikos has a point here. I really don't
want to be misunderstood here, but the truth is that US government had
shown no respect for other countries in the last decades. In the 60s and
70s they had halped lots of military coups throughout the world
(including Brazil in 64). Later, with Reagan and Bush Father, the
Washington Consensus have been demolishing the bases of our economies,
making us more and more dependant (and, many of us, prehocupied with
this situation).
Your current president quickly made things worse: Kioto Protocol, Star
Wars, Colombia Plan, the exchange of rain forest for pieces of external
debt, tha abandonment of the position of third party in negotiations
between IRA and England, and between Palestinians and Israel. All those
mistakes in US external politics made your country more hatred than
before, and, of course, more vulnerable.
Listen, I'm NOT justifying the terrorist actions that took place in your
country; but it seems to me that, if your leaders had come along another
path of thoughts and actions, you wouldn't be suffering what you are
now.
Best regards, and the hope that everything is resolved for the best of
all of us
Márcio A. V. Carvalho
State University of Campinas - Brazil
add your own comments
This is whatever you want (english)
by chehotep 10:48pm Wed Sep 12 '01
Dude dont bullshit yourself to death. Are you that stupid? I guess you live in a world were you are deprived of making money or a difference in your society. Dont be so stupid because who knows, you could be hit next picking your nose in a public place just minding your own business. They,re excuse will be that your american.
I want to know more about this (english)
by Diane 10:56pm Wed Sep 12 '01
schulz@saber.net
This video footage IS STIRRING UP HATRED - I live in relatively peaceful northern California and young people, even the teenage kids,are commenting on how horrible the Palestinians are to dance at the destruction. If this is true then the news should leak out to as many places as you can find. Propaganda needs to be exposed for what it is before our damned "leadership" decides to use bombs again,as they do ad nauseum. Please confirm this fact and send out something that we can use as anti-propaganda. It is so hard to get the truth here. Thank you for alerting us.
www.awakenedwoman.com
Amerika (english)
by . 11:02pm Wed Sep 12 '01
We don't need such narrow-minded, white supremacist-proud-to-be-american comments.
Listen to this fucking cop-military propaganda and enjoy.
Can we see these? (english)
by Mark Bialkowski 11:14pm Wed Sep 12 '01
mbialkowski@home.com
Marcio: can you see about possibly having these videos from '91 digitized and put online somewhere? I'm sure those of us here would love a good look at them. If it turns out that, yes, CNN is using old footage for propaganda purposes... then a scary new dimension would enter into what is already a horrible, unnecessary mess.
platdragon.cjb.net
a rat in the maze (english)
by squid 11:14pm Wed Sep 12 '01
squids@animail.net
Funny that you should tell the author of this article that they could be hit while "minding your own business"; funny because of what it reveals about your/our culture. "Minding your own business" is a phrase generally meaning "innocent" or "blameless". All the people in the World Trade Center were certainly minding their own businesses. But is business so innocent when it partners with regimes to destroy life and the hope of future life - the lives of humans and the life of the environment? Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children die every year as the result of US sanctions - and I hardly think that those children supported Saddam Hussein in any meaningful way before their short lives were ended by malnourishment, starvation, and disease.
The blood is on many hands, mine not excepted. I live a lifestyle highly dependent on fossil fuels and the mass-produced objects made by slave labor from resources extracted over the bodies of slain species and tribes. I am a rat in a maze, looking for a way out for once and for all, but having in the meantime to eat the cheese or die.
BBC shows same video (english)
by Jason Untulis 11:52pm Wed Sep 12 '01
indymedia@untulis.org
I'm watching BBC World on my cable system in the US and just saw the same celebration video that has been broadcast on CNN and other US network sources. Since the video has been the same, it's entirely possible that the original source for this is CNN and others are (implicitly) complicit in the alleged subterfuge.
This either validates the video as being authentic to recent events or invalidates some of the neutrality that has been assigning to the BBC elsewhere in related indymedia articles compared to corporate US media interests.
Don't get me wrong, thoughts of the American film _Wag the Dog_ have constantly run through my head to the way that the US media can and are manipulating the public and are being manipulated by the US government. But this one doesn't seem right to me.
1 Battle Won (english)
by Corey 12:37am Thu Sep 13 '01
corey@nofunatall.com
Even if this turns out to be true footage, can u blame the Palestinians. A bush himself said this is an act of war. Then as thew war has been going on for so long now is this one victory for the Palestinians. It is quite likely that they r not happy with the killing but could they be happy that t was the imperial power that got attacked. That the war as finally gone to the country which has killed so many of them. If im correct in saying did the American ppl give their soldiers a hero welcome back when they came back from the gulf. Is it not the same
Either way they're lying - thats thier job (english)
by triple anon 1:27am Thu Sep 13 '01
> If it turns out that, yes, CNN is using old footage for propaganda purposes... then a scary new dimension would enter into what is already a horrible, unnecessary mess.
New ?
I've seen this before, more times than I can keep track of, the mass media using the most damning footage they have in thier archive then carefully editing it to suit thier needs. Pig shows (like COPS) use mostly old footage in exactly this way as "fill" to keep the show moving (tales from the cutting room floor) and victimize people JUST for the entertainment value... Notice how they almost always "get thier man" ?, footage of people getting away is edited out, they want us to think that we will always lose when confronting them - statistics say otherwise !
So much in fact that new policies are in effect in many areas now to NOT chase people fleeing because often the COPS end up crashing (exposing them to lawsuits - thier only *real* concern) and people end up dead over (what would of been) a speeding ticket...
> That the war as finally gone to the country which has killed so many of them. If im correct in saying did the American ppl give their soldiers a hero welcome back when they came back from the gulf. Is it not the same
Exactly ! It's just a matter of perspective - millions of poor children and victimized people being killed - hero's treatment...
A few kids happy for a slight break in thier genoside - horrible !
CNN - BBC are nothing more than a part of the propaganda machine, they twist reality as they go to mold our attitudes. BBC is especially sneaky about it - adding a slight element of truth to make it seem believable, so more people will swallow it, and it pisses me off to see people *dumb enough* to fall for it and *post thier propaganda on here*.
BBC has been officially reconized for years as a propaganda arm of the government - what make them so pure now all of a sudden ?
Simply Not Substatial True (english)
by Sage 1:49am Thu Sep 13 '01
I can't state definitively that CNN hasn't shown old footage, but if they did it has been used in an illustrative manner because the PLO won't allow current footage out of the occupied territories.
The AP has confirmed reports that PLO security officers threatened the life of reporters who filmed the current celebrations over the WTC bombing. The AP has, so far, has not released the footage.
Yasser has stirred hatred as much as the U.S. and now feels the heat. WTC was clearly a huge military success but mid-east leaders know the repercussion will be the most significant, heavy-handed, long-lasting U.S. involvement in the mid-east ever.
CNN Fake scenes (english)
by Jenny 2:18am Thu Sep 13 '01
eugenia_gr2001@yahoo.com
I am a journalist in a greek radio station and I was very interested in the article about the fake scenes of CNN showing Palestinias in Israel celebrating after the terror attack in New York.
I want to give to this new some extra publicity, but I want to have some extra clues.
If someone of you knows something about this story or has some evidence that the scenes were from the archives of CNN, please contact with me by e-mail.
Attribution and referencing (english)
by Mark Bialkowski 2:30am Thu Sep 13 '01
mbialkowski@home.com
Sage:
If 1991 videos were intended to be used in an "illustrative" manner, then the time the videos were recorded, and the fact that they were file images, should have been clearly stated on screen, by the anchor, or both. That's simple journalistic ethics; you cite your sources. To run old video as current events, with no mention of such use, is dishonest, and if/when it is found out, only makes things worse.
The images of the WTC and Pentagon, and the reality of what occurred in those places, is enough to anger millions. CNN doesn't need to make it worse by running false footage. Again, I'd like a look at the videos Marcio's prof has, to see for myself.
platdragon.cjb.net
More excuses and support for terrorism (english)
by Johnny America 3:34am Thu Sep 13 '01
Marcio: So what? You whine about a video and make a claim which may or may not be true. How about the confirmation and apologies from the Palestinian foreign Ministers regarding these celebrations? There are sick, brainwashed people who no nothing of the US who hate us because the are weak followers. Let them live here for a while without the stifling effect of religious fanatacism and they would NEVER want to leave.
Unamerican Citizens: If you do not like it here...go to Brazil. We are simply targets because we are the leader. Leaders ALWAYS have people trying to take them down...it is that way throughout human history. You fail to see that the US is still the most free, most giving and compassionate country on the Globe. Stop whining and do something positive for your country and people!
Come On (english)
by Open Eyed 12:59pm Thu Sep 13 '01
Come on - fake footage. Let's get real here. Even the palestains admit there were rallies and are trying to supress further footage. They are a tyrannical entity with no freedom and a bunch of hooligans. Even Ap had to protest as shown below.
AP Protests Palestinian Threats To Freelance Cameraman
JERUSALEM (AP)--The Associated Press on Wednesday protested to the Palestinian Authority about threats against a freelance cameraman who filmed
Palestinians celebrating terror attacks in the United States.
The videographer, on assignment for Associated Press Television News, was summoned to a Palestinian Authority security office and told that the
material must not be aired. Calls in the name of the Tanzim militia, an armed group associated with Yasser Arafat's Fatah group, warned him he would
be held responsible and made what he interpreted as threats on his life.
Several Palestinian Authority officials spoke to AP in Jerusalem urging that
the material not be broadcast. Ahmed Abdel Rahman, Arafat's Cabinet
secretary, said the Palestinian Authority "cannot guarantee the life" of the
cameraman if the footage was broadcast.
The cameraman then requested that the material not be aired. In light of the
danger, APTN has not released the footage of the rally in Nablus.
AP news stories reported worldwide on the demonstration in Nablus and AP
distributed still pictures and video of similar rallies in east Jerusalem,
Lebanon and elsewhere. An AP still photographer did not take pictures of the
Nablus rally after being warned at the scene not to do so.
The protest by AP Chief of Bureau Dan Perry said, "I ask the assurances of
the Palestinian Authority that you will protect our journalists from threats
and attempts at intimidation and that no harm would come to our freelance
cameraman from distribution of the film."
Think About It... (english)
by Clark Crawford 3:39pm Thu Sep 13 '01
America is far from perfect, but why is it that everyone os always so quick to jump on the "evil America" bandwagon and point out all the things we have done wrong in the world but no one ever mentions all the good things we do? THink about it. Everytime there is a major disaster in the world like an earthquake or what have you we are the first to send money, supplies and people. Yet when is the last time you heard about some other country coming to our assistance? You likely haven't becasue I have been an AMerican for 27 years and to my knowledge it's never happened. I see footage (not from 1991) of Egyptians dancing in the streets, celebrating our misfortune and I've got to tell you, it doesn't make me feel too good knowing that close to 75 million dollars in American tax payer dollars go to Egypt each year in the form of aid. Sure it's easy to pick on the big guy, but if America took an isolationst view of foreign policy and quit helping people out, there would be a lot of people reevaluating their opinion of America. My guess is, if the handouts quit, a lot of you would realize that we do contribute an awful lot. If it weren't for "Big Bully America" the whole of Western Europe would be speaking German. Think about it.
Investigating this claim (english)
by whispered media 4:32pm Thu Sep 13 '01
wm@videoactivism.org
we sent this story out to the Video Activist Network (VAN) list, and many other people, and are waiting to hear back from anyone who has information that can confirm this claim. someone also called CNN and was told that there have been several calls about it already and that there are "a lot of rumors" going around and they'll respond soon.
this may or may not be true, so let's figure it out. please email whispered media with any information about this you might have and we'll try to get some answers (please write "CNN" in the subject field, since we get a lot of email).
you can also visit www.videoactivism.org for more info about what we do and how to get involved in video activism today. we'll probably post info there about the CNN story if something gets confirmed and probably this page as well.
www.whisperedmedia.org
screw you, you insensitive prick (english)
by A pissed off American 5:20pm Thu Sep 13 '01
I can't believe you all. Even if it the footage was old, the facts could still be true. News Companies do use old footage when they can't get new ones. Any and all of you that are Pissed off saying that America has stuck its nose in other countries business You get even more irate when we try to back away. This is Ridiculous. make up your damn minds!! For example the conflict between the IRA and England, they were on their way to peace, they didn't need us anymore. And in the whole Palestinians and Israel issue...we have tried to help but the Palestinians don't want us there anymore. I thought you already said that we shouldn't get involved. Just shut up you little shits. Pick one reason to hate us and stick with it. Does Marcio know what the Monroe Doctrine is??? Well, what it did was to basically send money to Latin and South America and promise that no European country would rule them again. We were willing to die for you to protect you from them and from being run by Europe. You're Welcome! We helped you get started where is our thanks? We don't want any now anyway. Too little too late. The least you could do is be behind us in our time of pain. All this bull does not excuse the fact that thousands of AMERICAN civilians, what ever the race may be...Black, White, Hispanic, Jewish, Asian, Indian, are dead because of some crazy person that HATES America....but how does that make killing civilians right?? you all make me sick!!!! America is the most powerful nation right now, do you own a baseball cap/hat? do you smoke Winston's? Marlborough? Camels? good...where do you think all this came from. Do you watch our Movies? I thought so. Where do people come to make it big, to live life?? America you fools. so don't tell me that we deserved this horrible act. My cousin was missing for a few hours and I know the pain I was going through is nothing like the pain others are going through now. I wan to know who did it. But I don't want more innocent blood shed. So those of you who actually believe the people who died deserved this, you are really sick...go get some help!!!
well sorry to destroy you`r patetic teory (english)
by nicolas 7:06pm Thu Sep 13 '01
address: naharya Israel
I live in israel ,and I saw the palestinians festives
allso i know arafat treat the fotografers that take
pictures from the festives in the PA ,but the pictures
from the palestinians festives in jerusalem ,are from now
they was taking here were arafat cant do nothing ,and dont
tell me you dont know all erround the world when news cant
have updated pics and films ,they use archived films
thats not new ,you`r teorie was just made to tray to
show the americans as bad ppl ,is pure propaganda
and dont tell me is not true ,I know how south americans
think I used to live in argentina ,and I know how brain
washed you are against the yankees ,I dont saying they
didnt do any thing wrong to you ,but the middle east
is a totaly different historie .
kindly regards ,nicolas .
Horrifying event (english)
by Michael 7:25pm Thu Sep 13 '01
First of all there is no cause that justifies this type of an immoral and inhumane act that has affected so many innocent American lives. These acts diminish the freedom of all Americans, including American Muslims. In the rush to assign blame no media "experts" or politicians stop to ask the imperitave question: Why would somebody target the United States? Why do other countries burn the flag of America? I believe this is an oppurtunity for Americans to ponder their government's foreign policy and notably it's hypocrisy. The prevailing pattern in America is one of angered outrage over crimes of "terrorism", but a remarkably blind eye in the case of crimes for which the US bears responsibility. The media turns away from the crimes of its major clients (Israel) while condeming the crimes of its "enemies." The effect has been to intimidate and silence critics. Countries such as Israel will be perceieved as symbols of democracy as long as they are strategic assets to the United States. The United States will now use this crisis to get its allies to support it's military initiatives. Let us not forget 4,000 Iraqi children are being killed every month as a result of America's sanctions, which is referred to as biological warfare, and when Secretary of State Madeleine Albright commented when asked for her reaction to killing of half a million Iraqi children in five years, she replied "we think the price is worth it." With the uttering of comments such as this, America certainly can not be an enlightend civilization which prides itself on reducing Iraq to a preindustrial level (by killing innocent victims, women and children), while leaving Saddam Hussein, in power. So one must understand United States needs an enemy, such as Saddam (which let us not forget was our ally before and we supplied him with arms and gave him tear gas, which he used against the Kurds and against Iranians in the IRan-Iraq war) in order to keep him as a balance against Iran. And this whole rhetoric and assigning this atrocity to Bin Laden is interesting. Personally I do not believe a word they say about the guy. Anytime something happens, they point to Bin Laden. Remember the US needs a "enemy" like "Bin Laden." And remember there hundreds of "bin laden's" out there and ironically most have been trained by this government in their previous wars (russia vs. afghanistan). This all comes back to United States foreign policy. Any educated person can see the US devotes its effort in dominating the region not out of its concern for DEMOCRACY but with the aim of controlling the profits associated with this essential resource, which is critical to the functioning of capitalism globally. So when you hear Bush say "fighting for democracy and freedom" he is reffering to power and profits. I mean shit who doesn't want freedom. And unfortunately nost Americans are unable to make the neccessary historical linkages so as to develop a comprehension of these matters. The United States supplies arms to violent regimes throughout the world, including Israel, Saudi, Colombia, and Turkey. Once again to maintain the historic pretension of national unity, the government reinforces the idea that the common enemy is overseas, not at home, where disasters of economics or war are unfortunate errors or tragic accidents, to be corrected by the members of the same club that brought the disasters. So before one is to "fight terrorism" abroad, one must fight terrorism at home. The terrorist as sad as it may sound is its own governemnet. And let us not allow ourselves to associate these deplorable acts done in the name of "islam" by those who claim to represent it, if this atrocity was even committed by a so called "muslim." or let us not direct our anger at arabs or muslims. These people obviously do not have any regard to human life, especially their own. And if there is anything to be learned from history that is violence leads to only more violence and war is not the answer. The human consequences of war become clear after its end, bombings such as the ones in Iraq cause starvation, disease, and deaths of tens of thousands of children.
I will end with a quote by MLK
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only love can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that"
Globalization 2001 (english)
by Stan Eads 9:45pm Thu Sep 13 '01
address: P.O. Box 543, Winton Ca. 95388 phone: 209-358-8572 globalization41@aol.com
We have been dragged into this war because our thought control police have failed to guard America's neutrality regarding the Middle East, which is nothing more than a bunch of religious nuts going around hating and killing each other in the name of God, ethnicity, and generational grudges. We have 250 million non-Jews and non-Muslims in America; the war between the Jews and the Muslims should never have been allowed to become our business. This is not authorized to be known. We stuck our big nose where it shouldn't have been and we got it bloodied. Those who have demonized and blacklisted American isolationists have a lot of blood on their hands. Nevertheless, we now have no choice but to respond to this violation of our neutrality with the utmost brutality since the Muslims have failed to realize the consequences of handing Israel an ally with a blank check. ... Rooting for "America first," Stan Eads, Winton Ca.
Does kids know what they are celebrating (english)
by Ann 10:01pm Thu Sep 13 '01
It does not really matter if this was taken recently or not; most of the people in the film are kids, do you really think they knew and understood what they were "celebrating"? And also, do you think the palestinians actually got all the information WE got?
We do not get all information ourselves, I am sure. You can already see a difference between what they show in Europe compared to US, and I am certain it is even more different if you compare US to any middle east country.
I think the whole thing is horrible and terrifying, but there has to be some sort of balance in the media - a balance we do not have at the moment, I'm afraid.
//Ann
rationality (english)
by R A Coldbreath 12:13am Fri Sep 14 '01
If this article is accurate, this footage MUST be found and verified, and MUST be made available to the wider (global) media.
There is no doubt that there is media manipulation happening - it would be naive to think otherwise. No reporter will be free from some personal bias at this terrible time. The question is: what is the scale of it? If it has strayed across the line and is now failing to report the facts in favour of incitement - then that is a vile abuse of the American people at a time when they are at their most sensitive and in their most desperate need of calm, accurate reporting from a responsible and dependable media.
Taliban regime (english)
by J.D 12:39am Fri Sep 14 '01
The US put the Taliban regime in power. The CIA helped and trained Usama bin Laden to fight the war against the Russians in Afghanistan in order to get the ruling Jihad government out. CIA have often had a finger in different coups around the world.
Did the New Yorkers deserve this? NO!
Does Osama bin Laden need to be put on trial? YES
My thought are with the victims and their families no matter where they are from. Don't forget that there were not only Americans working in those buildings.
The truth is out there... (english)
by Apreo 12:48am Fri Sep 14 '01
It's sickening to see the hatred of americans right now... Epecially when it's based on false information spread by CNN which in turn is controlled by the US-govt. It didn't take them more than THIRTY minutes after the first plane hit to find a scapegoat... THIRTY damn minutes... While stations in Sweden were commenting the hardships to come for the NY-population, CNN was interviewing American politicians who were ALL talking about punishment, punishment and punishment again..
The US-govt. has been lying to it's population and the rest of the world for as long as it's been there. Still, most americans stand behind their system as if it was the mother of all creation and condemns anything that doesn't conform to it... Wake up!!
Like the author of the original thread, I feel sincere sympathy for all the people hurt and killed in the attacks in NY. Just as I feel sincere sympathy for even more thousands of civilians killed in the Middle East by american bombs...
But I don't feel any sympathy whatsoever for USA as a country and system.. The US has always been supressing other countries to make their own financial gain.. The US controls the global economy with force, lies and manipulation.. so this was bound to happen.
Anyone notice the difference in news broadcasting by the way? When the US bombs other countries to pieces, you'll see a 5-minute broadcast on CNN showing some explosions in the dark and reports of "minor collateral damage"..
When NY happens, CNN is broadcasting it's propaganda worldwide, 24/7... and even shows palestinian street celebrations from 1991! It's so obvious you couldn't possibly miss it...... unless you've bought the hoax and were raised by it.
I'm glad there are others out there still looking beyond the obvious in search for the truth... keep it up people!
One day we'll outnumber the nicely herded sheep...
/ Apreo International
Palestinians and others do celebrate (english)
by A Swede 12:58am Fri Sep 14 '01
It might be true about the CNN photage, but the point is moot anyway.
Here in Sweden we have several occassions of palestinians and other muslems that do in fact celebrate. Several schools are now dealing with the problem of celebrating teenagers, for example
SUPERPATRIOT (english)
by somebody 1:42am Fri Sep 14 '01
HEY! This is for all superpatriots who got angry about the article: the only point wich matters is, that once more the media gave false informations to the people. This is dangerous!!!
Keep things in proportion (english)
by Shimrit 2:16am Fri Sep 14 '01
I've heard the AP stuff too. I'm sure there *were* people
celebrating, probably the same people who'd go and blow people up themselves.
I'm also sure the majority of the palestinian people didn't
celebrate. Wether some of those who were quiet would have
like to celebrate, is a different matter. But it's obvious
that the palestinians are going to be suffering even more
now than ever before because of this. And it doesn't take
a genius to realise that.
I think very few of them have *reason* to celebrate.
Wether CNN are using new or "recycled" video footage, on purpose or by accident. The fact is, media is never impartial, and the fanatical, vocal minority always gets a bigger voice on the news.
The whole of Palestine is getting lumped with these obvious
fanatical terrorism supporters, in the same way that I,
as an Israeli who does not support the very very Bad Things
that happen in the territories, get lumped together with the Israelis who do.
S
Isn't it time for a new theory? (english)
by Poggy 2:47am Fri Sep 14 '01
Don't you think at a time like this then efforts should be made to find a solution to the bigger problems that the world now faces, rather than showing off your rather hackneyed views about the media? Do you believe everything that you're told? No, you look at other sources. Even if CNN has been supplying footage to other news sources, do you not think that none of these would have checked its authenticity? None at all? And these celebrations were covered across all forms of the media, by many different journalists. Did they all get together and have a big old conspiracy meeting to do this? And why can't you even get a still of this video? You cannot attack the media and then post a story that has no corroboration itself. If we believe your story without evidence then we are worse than those you attack.
You obviously have intelligence. Please don't waste it by attacking the media. Its been done before. If you treat people as stupid enough to be sucked in my propaganda like that then there is no hope for any of us.
Listen first (english)
by Daniel 3:00am Fri Sep 14 '01
It has been a terrifying few days and indeed feelings are running high on both sides of the imaginable divide.
I'm sure that those in the East can understand why such hatred is now being aimed at them. Disregard the footage, disregard the propoganda and see the attack for exactly what it is - an unmitigated attempt to disrupt a country who for years has been asked to perform a policing role across the world. I am sure that even those who carried out this attack can understand why this hatred is building as they themselves are driven to their actions by absolute hatred and disregard for any other nation than their own. It is also disgraceful that they can try and justify their actions under the teachings of the Koran. They are deranged fools who will now bring about the death of the very cause, the very people who they claim to be fighting for. America will stop at nothing and even if it needs to raze the Middle East to the ground, believe me, it will.
But what about the rest of the world? Here in the UK, there is already a high amount of hatred toward so called refugees (many from Afghanistan) and the recent elections here saw the continued rise of the BNP. All this has done has given people here, even broad minded individuals, the opportunity to breed on the racism that already exists. Once the attacks start and Pakistan is bombed (for they have been involved in this atrocity too), there will be outcry, rioting and social unrest here in the UK, turning certain places into no-go areas and sparking a civil war.
However, these people who claim to be fighting a 'Holy War' blatantly ignore the teachings given to them. They deride religion and ensure that the West, many of who have limited knowledge or time for the Eastern traditions and reliogions, continue to be fed the wrong idea. This in itself is propoganda, fuelled by the very people who claim that the West provides it against them. It's time that they realised the World is a big enough place for all people to live regardless of how they got there. If that wasn't the case, then why would the UK continue to house people who have been kicked out of Afghanistan. Indeed, these people will be the first targets should tempers fray here. They need to recognise that the way forward is to co-operate with those around them. They will never win - they may have well put together and well organised gangs capable of committing such tragedies as Tuesday's, but at the end of the day, they cannot compete with the power of the world's nations together.
They need to learn that whichever God they follow, he would never condone the actions that they are taking.
Unfortunately, they are about to learn the hard way.
digitize the footage from 91 and upload it (english)
by sickman2o0o 3:16am Fri Sep 14 '01
sickman2o0o@gmx.net
i would provide the webspace.
i live in germany where CNN is not!
so it is harder to believe for us in just these words.
i will believe!
rip the old vid, more than this passage so we see the full kuwait-irak thing, and the same new one with just the new meaning. and show it to us.
we will make a bigger scandall then.
plz mail me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The age of the pictures really doesn't matter (english)
by dj blutti 3:48am Fri Sep 14 '01
fluffibunni@devnull.com
It really doesn't matter if the pictures are old or not.
Palestinian people and others WERE celebrating the attacks.
members.tripod.com/~SPEAAA/
digitize the footage from 91 and upload it (english)
by sickman2o0o 3:54am Fri Sep 14 '01
sickman2o0o@gmx.net
i would provide the webspace.
i live in germany where CNN is not!
so it is harder to believe for us in just these words.
i will believe!
rip the old vid, more than this passage so we see the full kuwait-irak thing, and the same new one with just the new meaning. and show it to us.
we will make a bigger scandall then.
plz mail me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
power (english)
by sheepboy 4:14am Fri Sep 14 '01
people underestimate the power of the government, especially during times of war or near war. The government can censor everything that is put on television, if they decided, we wouldn't even know about the bombing here in australia.
The truth is, if they think having us believe the palestinians were celebrating, they could. During the time of East Timor Crisis here in australia, the governamt would censor EVERYTHING that was to go on the air, even to the extent of banning certain songs from being played on the radio.
So, I'm not saying whether they were celebrating or not... I'm just stating the facts
Interesting standards.. (english)
by Simon C. 4:23am Fri Sep 14 '01
I find it bizarre that some posters here are saying that the show of old footage - assuming this is a verifiable fact - is unimportant because it's a symbolic truth or suchlike.
It is probably true to say that some people will have celebrated the Manhattan event, in the same way that some people always celebrate horrific events, for various reasons.
It is manifestly not good journalism - although it is splendid propaganda for the US - to show old videotape footage, if this meant to portray the factual truth. If the truth is there, it will out.
Please, no more sanctimonious nonsense from freepers - let's just concentrate on the truth, huh?
america had never war in thier country (english)
by sickman2o0o 4:24am Fri Sep 14 '01
sickman2o0o@gmx.net
the act is shit, most that civilians are assfucked.
at peal harbour there where no civilians so i can't hear it anymore.
and i can't see anymore the same pix around the clock in our tv stations.
america was always giving money to terrorists to mix up the middle east (irak, iran, and this bin laden guy(first they liked all those terrorists)) or somewhere over the whole world.
and america was always everywhere, where war was, where thier interests where, and where they were able to sell weapons or/and where they were able to make money afterwards in giving credits.
and america was helping to set up israel by deleting a state named palestina, so i can understand if there where palestinians happy that the big brother got the mouth shut back home, where they've never expected something.
all others in the middle east live all day in war, they don't know anything else, they are poor, they are used by conflict makers, by people who earn money by having a conflict, having a party, a weapon-tupper-war(e)-party.
so they are not that big shocked.
america has made so many enemies, something had to come, i guess.
i hope big monkey bush will not fight back in a big hate run. i hope he finds someone and really prove the guiltyness first.
i don't want a new war, a new stupid bombing in far east.
the people there had this enough or have this already!!
lets rip the vid and post it for us!! plz, video owner!!!!
i can't see more propaganda in this shit TV system!
Response to 'think about it' (english)
by Michael Armstrong 5:24am Fri Sep 14 '01
Money, money, money. America hands out billions of it in foreign aid. So this means theyre holier than thou. No. America is what it is due to capitalist freedom. History will show that is the way America has most often offered aid. When it best suits its own interests. Bin Laden received millions in U.S. aid to fight his cause two decades ago (Russia v. Afghanistan). Its what made him rich today. I dont think theyll be pouring money his way now in quite the same fashion. Furthermore being the largest capitalist nation in the world, I hardly imagine offering aid to lesser nations threatens its own economy, so dont use money as an excuse to justify innocence.
We gave three minutes silence today to a sister nation who lost thousands of innocent lives. History doesnt recall if Hiroshima or Nagasaki received the same though millions died, and continue to suffer, and as for other nations who have suffered throughout recent history, its clear we all need to look beyond our sheltered western ideals.
America will react to this atrocity with aggresive force. Innocent people will die in the quest to punish those responsible. Attacking the nations of those that harboured the terrorists will only justify the peoples current negative misconceptions of America. A new generation of deep hatred will fester against America, and maybe well witness another act of violence decades later in retaliation. I hope not. But its a cycle that will never end if we meet violence with violence. Education and understanding would be a far better response because nobody deserves to die. Its thinking like that which leads to innocent lives lost.
Finally, as to stating Americas aid in the WWII effort in the debate. It was for Americas own financial gain that they entered WWII, not for the saviour of the free world. Hoovers New Deal relied on it to boost a failing national economy. All the same, thank you for your assistance then. Were doing what we can to help you now.
don't let the power of hate take your soul (english)
by Boston Granny 5:25am Fri Sep 14 '01
pcolt@worldnet.att.net
thank you... hatred does not discriminate does it... we are all suseptable to it's control... lord help us all... this world not only must change it's ways... it will cease to be if hatred and the lust for power continue to thrive in the hearts of man... god bless
don't let the power of hate take your soul (english)
by Boston Granny 5:28am Fri Sep 14 '01
pcolt@worldnet.att.net
thank you... hatred does not discriminate does it... we are all suseptable to it's control... lord help us all... this world not only must change it's ways... it will cease to be if hatred and the lust for power continue to thrive in the hearts of man... god bless
FOOTAGE ASIDE....... (english)
by Think about it 6:42am Fri Sep 14 '01
Ok, so the argument goes that even if the video is old footage the Palestinians were celebrating anyway and just couldnt be filmed because of suppression?
C'mon people, im sure you dont actually beleive that, they soon had cameras all over the place when the world was looking the other way and Israel invaded Palestinian territory for the umpteenth time on Wednesday with 20-40 tanks. Funny that footage reached us in time yet they couldnt send over people dancing in the streets.
The argument dosnt make sense, whether you like it or not.
Put the authenticity of the footage to one side for a second and think.... WHY would they want to show people dancing in the streets anyway? If you belive it is happening then why would a major media corp. want to reinforce public anger at a time when a nation needs to greive. The footage does NOT take you any closer to the purportrators of this disgusting act.
And that is what we all want.
The Truth is Out There - response (english)
by Cormac 7:00am Fri Sep 14 '01
Amen! When will the US people finally acknowledge that their government has caused the deaths of millions on foreign soil and should be held accountable? We all know the answer to this will be never.
Is there proof? (english)
by Daniel Wilby 7:23am Fri Sep 14 '01
phone: +46-(0)470-768323 wilby@rocketmail.com
I am the editor of an alternative student newspaper at the university of Vaxjo in Sweden.
If there is any proof that the footage is false I would appreciate if I could somehow get a hold of the evidence of this. If there is a chance to get the digitalized version we would also be happy to post it on our site.
www.kaikus.com
gullible people (english)
by eb 7:41am Fri Sep 14 '01
these are fake too, right?
so you distrust cnn but belive anything you read on the internet...
Please, please (english)
by big ugly mudflaps 10:17am Fri Sep 14 '01
We Americans have never asked for anything in return. We don't even expect for some people to appreciate what we have tried to accomplish for them. I understand that we may piss some people off by trying to achive certain polictical goals in other countries but the tragedy in New York City must not be taken lightly. This has got to be one of the worst terrorist activities ever, the timing, the causulties, the location etc...
I believe that a de-sensitified United States needs a kick in the ass to get angry about something like this. You can go to big budget films and get the same sort of action that took place in NYC on Tuesday.
True, the media is wrong that they used achived video to create a reaction but tell me-- are you saying that cheering wasn't taking place out there in Afganastan or wherever this originated from. America needed to see that or something portiating that to get angry about this-- Believe me America has become a sheltered place where no one believes anything like this could happen--- some Americans still don't believe that this has happened.
how do you know? (english)
by the man 10:55am Fri Sep 14 '01
How do you know that these clips and pictures are celebrating the attack on the US? are there any quotes from people? I've been to Palestine and those clips and photos look like wedding celebrations. yes, they celebrate their weddings with ak-47's.
--the man
what are you thinking? (english)
by Bebe 12:42pm Fri Sep 14 '01
I cannot believe it when I hear and see statements such as "it's about time" or America deserved this. This is ridiculous. Not everyone in America is ignorant to the rest of the world - especially someplace as diverse as New York. I am a Native New Yorker, and am happy with the diverse communities and peoples that I grew up with. I personally know people of many different backgrounds who work in the Trade Center, and work along side me. They are also my friends who come out to dinner with me, and have kept me aware of all that has happened to them as a result of this tragedy. It makes no sense that this horrific event happened in the Trade Center. Let's be realistic - not everyone "likes" the United States, not everyone "likes" everyone else in the world period. At the same time, the United States has not flown a plane into an area where it can kill potentially 50,000 civillians in one dose. You can hate all you want, but you distintincly cross the line when you kill thousands of non military individuals. The U.S. has enemies, but it cannot wholey be "friends" with every country or people without being false to others. Why to kill all these people? If you want to get the U.S.'s attention, why not a relatively empty building or a military building, etc? It is completely an unacceptable waste of lives, and a pathetically poor excuse to say that this was deserved in any way.
internetsing (english)
by jon 1:36pm Fri Sep 14 '01
very interesting!
Jon
www.ldsearch.com/index.htm
CNN Using 1991 Footage (english)
by Scott Lewis 2:21pm Fri Sep 14 '01
Slewis@diconfiber.com
I think your article on CNN using 1991 footage is a bunch of shit!
You may have not noticed that these happy little PLO terrorists making funny little faces for the camera, where carrying front page newspapers of September 11, 2001.
RE MARCIO (english)
by M 4:13pm Fri Sep 14 '01
purrrub@meows.fsneet.co.uk
i have to agree, over the years too many times the usa has aided / helped various peoples more often based on a religious/political basis sometimes, economical,ie kuate.
Ah yes, the evil U.S.A. (english)
by just a citizen 4:34pm Fri Sep 14 '01
got this from a friend in Canada...
I thought this was worth reading.
TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
This, from a Canadian newspaper, no less, is worth sharing.
America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as
printed in the Congressional Record:
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on the earth. Germany, Japan, and to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the
debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debt. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When France was in
danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions and
billions of dollars into disparaged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the
United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other
land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios, you talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American Technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for the world to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not
pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian Laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were
breaking down through age, it was Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to help other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the
Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
Trying to clear some things up (english)
by Mark Bialkowski 5:23pm Fri Sep 14 '01
mbialkowski@home.com
I'd like to take a moment and get some things out in the open that I think we can all agree on.
WERE THERE PALESTINIANS CHEERING THE ATTACKS:
Yes, it seems, there were a few who felt this was a strike against the supporter of their oppressor, and was to be celebrated. There were reports of scattered celebrations in Palestine and Pakistan. However, this does not nullify the outpouring of grief and condolence also coming from people in those areas of the world. The revelers seem to be in the minority, and even though they, or people htey know, have been the recipient of much abuse - some of it ignored or backed by the U.S. government - that is no justification for cheering the death of anyone.
IS IT POSSIBLE CNN RAN OLD FOOTAGE AS NEW?:
Yes, it's within the realm of possibility. Marcio's report is slowly spreading, reaching counterpunch.org today. In order to be sure, the tapes from Marcio's professor would have to be compared with tapes of the recent CNN footage to be sure. It may be there are portions of the recent video that are similar to the 1991 Gulf War video. It may be possible CNN inserted bits of old video, for what reason I don't know, aside from propaganda. Again, nothing can be said for sure until a comparison is done by an impartial body.
DID THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY SEIZE FOOTAGE?:
Seems likely. There was the initial AP report of PA officers trying to confiscate footage of celebrations, a report that seems to have spread to other sources. If so, that was precisely the wrong move for the Palestinian government to attempt. Word of the scattered celebrations was latched on to by the media and many angry Americans; this can only serve to feed that sensationalism and anger.
WOULD CNN BE JUSTIFIED IN RUNNING OLD FOOTAGE ANYWAY?:
No, absolutely not. Now, more than ever, the mainstream news media needs to live up to ideals of journalistic integrity and objectivity. If CNN ran old footage, it should have been mentioned and cited by anchors; this is simple honesty. Even "illustrating" celebrations in the event of a lack of footage wouldn't justify claiming old video is new and recent. If enough video got out of the Palestinian territories, there shouldn't be a need to use old footage as current news, anyway.
Again, all of this depends on someone fairly impartial looking at the old and new video, to determine just what the heck is going on here. I haven't seen any of the video myself, since I shut off CNN after the first day and a half and wasn't always glued to the tube anyway, so I'd love to see any video people can provide of both to see for myself.
This has already been a horrible disaster; the media shouldn't fan the flames if they can avoid it, but just report and present the facts as they're available.
platdragon.cjb.net
Oh yeah???? (english)
by NerdMan 5:26pm Fri Sep 14 '01
If America is so bad, then why do millions of people immigrate here every year!?!?!?!?
If America is so bad, then why do we give other countries millions of dollars every year!?!?!?!?
If America is so bad, then why do we send help for every disaster that happens!?!?!?!?
America is not bad.
Q.E.D. (means quite easily done -- a term in mathemetics for when you prove something to be right)
hmmmm....... (english)
by Njlla otkar 5:53pm Fri Sep 14 '01
Well when I saw this artical it got me thinking... because here in iceland a newsanker who was in palestina when the terrorists attacked and he told the icelandic news team that there where no celebration in palestina. That everething was quiet there.
Maybe those people werent even palestinians, who knows.
maybe they where from israel who had palestinian flags. It is really good for the isralien goverment to let us belive that palestinian people where dancing out on the street because then they might be alowed to murder some more palestinian's.
But then again maybe these photos wherent fake and Palestinian's where actually celebraiting that horrible attack.
But that does not justify the attacks on the muslims living in new york and other places in america.
They might have lost someone close to them in that attack to!
oh and one thing sorry about my spelling and grammar I'm not English. 
America (english)
by American Patriot 5:58pm Fri Sep 14 '01
Don't tell us about how our leaders are the cause. They were not at the controls of those planes. The USA has put so much of support into other countries. The Nations that we have helped now spit at us even though they have not sent one thin dime back in payment. I as a RED BLOODED AMERICAN has one thought in mind, but I feel it cannont be done is to NUKE'M and let God sort them out. But we as Americans cannot do this. Other countries or terrorist would do this without hesitation if they had the means. Just look at what a coward has done. They Kill innocent people but will not stand up and say they did it. When we do things in the interest of peace we stand up and everyone spits. Just my thoughts.
Wake up (english)
by Frank 6:08pm Fri Sep 14 '01
I'm sure you propaganda spreading bullshit artists will have a hard time explaining cars, such as a 1998 hyuandi, pictured in the videos...morons...
"not suprised one little bit" (english)
by Ned 6:33pm Fri Sep 14 '01
I can just see some big fat American arms dealer lazing back on his $10 million dollar yacht in the Bahamas setting up his next shipment of weapons off to some poor central african country that can't even feed it's people. The sad thing is, innocent people pay for the greed of others.
"not suprised one little bit" (english)
by Ned 6:35pm Fri Sep 14 '01
I can just see some big fat American arms dealer lazing back on his $10 million dollar yacht in the Bahamas setting up his next shipment of weapons off to some poor central african country that can't even feed it's people. The sad thing is, innocent people pay for the greed of others.
1991 Footage misused for Greater EVIL (english)
by khadijah rivera 8:42pm Fri Sep 14 '01
vpiedad99@yahoo.com
It is reprehensible that CNN would fool the American public like that.. Yes, i want to see proof and uncover their scheme... Shame, shame CNN.
www.angelfire.com/pq/Andausia
get over it (english)
by Indi 9:06pm Fri Sep 14 '01
"If anyone of you has access to this kind of files, search for it. In the meanwhile, I'll try to 'put my hands' on a copy of this tape." Somehow I doubt these tapes will ever turn up and if they did it would be hard to prove it happened in 1991. "It's simply irresponsible to show images such as those. " why is it irresponsible if they are only images from 1991?
You tell us if our leaders wouldve handled it different? Ours leaders would not have to be there if YOUR leaders would work out a way to live peacefully together in the first place. They would not be killing your women and children if you demanded YOUR own leaders to stop killing theirs.etc..
As for Palestinians dancing in the streets, all those people are just raising future generations of little terrorists,
I bet your not dancing when all is said and done.
You say, "Now Americans see what we go through" NewsFlash: Americans fought their civil wars years and years ago, its over, were done, we realized thats not the way to go, its about time you get over yours and stop trying to drag us into it by dispicable acts for attention and recognition such as this.
STOP BACKLASH (english)
by Josh 10:04pm Fri Sep 14 '01
I live in Texas, here there is alot of ignorance!
I've seen KKK members on the side of the road flipping people off that were everything but white.
The point of this is to say Backlash in houston in already ocurring...Not only against middle easterns.
This is giving a reason for prejudice people to hate
just to hate.
(If true) this information must be shared with the whole world. There is alot of us citizens (born even) that will
be effected by this ignorance.
Lets help one another and not hate one
another......there are bigger issues at hand!
Josh
use of file footage means dick (english)
by netwerk 10:07pm Fri Sep 14 '01
netwerk@netwerk.bur.st
http://www.smh.com.au/breaking/2001/09/13/FFXMPLZFJRC.html
Meanwhile, Mr Deen criticised Islamic students who were cheering as television images of the plane crashes played at a Queensland university library yesterday.
The students had reportedly celebrated in front of library staff and students as the drama unfolded on the screens.
the fact that they used file footage doesnt mean it didnt happen. im sure that the Islamic students at UQ weren't the only ones celebrating.
Go back to school you ignorant people (english)
by Steve 10:09pm Fri Sep 14 '01
OK, people!! Pull your heads out of your asses and open your minds for a minute or two.
1) News networks will use old footage if nothing is available. They don't have to site their source most times. It's their footage. So tell your teachers or who ever is researching this, know your sources and what you are talking about before you open your mouth. It's the same as writing a formal paper. To Marcio A.V. Cavalho, your credentials and sources are nothing nor stated with the article. Go home and be happy you are alive to bitch about things.
2) Just because a news network was using old foot
quote:Als Amerika maar ergens de schuld van kan krijgen.....
Op zondag 16 september 2001 18:35 schreef Duiveltja het volgende:
allemaal bullshit die verhalen, denk je nou echt dat CNN dat allemaal zou doen??
quote:Tsja, ik ben zelf vrij sceptisch over de media; ook wetende hoe de media invloed had op Nazi-Duitsland en wat het kan doen.
Op zondag 16 september 2001 18:35 schreef Duiveltja het volgende:
allemaal bullshit die verhalen, denk je nou echt dat CNN dat allemaal zou doen??
Het lijkt me inderdaad vrij stug dat CNN zoiets kan doen, maar ik sluit het niet uit. Het is tenslotte een commercieel bedrijf waarvan CNN eigendom is, en dit bedrijf zal vast wel links hebben met de politiek.
Ik heb net de beelden opnieuw gezien, en 100% zeker dat de man die links op de voorgrond in beeld is, aan zijn broekriem aan de rechterkant (voor de kijker links) een mobiele telefoon in een tasje heeft hangen. 100% zeker.
Deze beelden zijn dus NIET in '91 gemaakt, want toen waren er nog geen GSM-toestellen, en zeker niet van het formaat dat deze man droeg.
Hoax dus.