From Art Harris
CNN
Wednesday, December 10, 2003 Posted: 11:22 PM EST (0422 GMT)
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- When child welfare workers interviewed in February the boy who now accuses Michael Jackson of sexually abusing him, the boy denied he had been molested by the pop icon, and his mother said nothing improper occurred, according to the report.
Sources close to the prosecution told CNN there was a Jackson employee nearby during at least part of the interview by child welfare agency workers. And, the sources said, the employee's presence had an "intimidating" effect.
"To say there was intimidation going on is an understatement," one source said.
The presence of someone connected to Jackson may have had a chilling effect on the boy's story, one expert said.
"The implied message to the child is, 'I'm here to prevent you from saying anything bad about Michael Jackson,'" said Dr. Astrid Heppenstall Heger, a child abuse expert who heads the Los Angeles-based Violence Intervention Program.
The mother of the boy says in the welfare agency interview she was unaware of abuse of her son at that time. However, sources close to the prosecution say at least one incident of abuse was witnessed by the accuser's brother.
According to the Los Angeles Department of Family and Children's Services, the agency got a hotline tip from the boy's school shortly after the February ABC documentary aired featuring Jackson holding his hand.
In the documentary, the superstar said the boy, a cancer patient, had been on sleepovers at his Neverland Ranch, where they slept in the same room, but not in the same bed.
When caseworkers met the family, the welfare report says Jackson was called a "father figure" by the boy's mother, who said her children were "never left alone with the entertainer."
Last month, CNN legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom heard what the defense represented as the family praising Jackson on an audiotape recorded by a defense private investigator, also in February.
"One month after these alleged tapes were made, both the mother and the alleged victim in this case signed written affidavits under penalty of perjury stating that Michael Jackson never acted inappropriately toward the victim in this case," Newsom said.
Experts say children don't always tell everything.
"Defense attorneys can say to a child, 'Well, are you lying now, or were you lying then?' And it's not a lie. None of it was a lie. It's just part of getting permission to tell," Heger said.
Prosecution sources said investigators have more evidence to back up the boy's story, but the defense says it has plenty to shoot it down. Still, the prosecution has discounted the welfare agency report.
One source said child welfare caseworkers "never independently confirmed anything in their report. They didn't discover what we found. Their report is not worth the paper it's printed on."
Jackson, 45, surrendered to authorities in Santa Barbara on November 20 and was booked on charges of "lewd and lascivious conduct" with a child under 14. He was released on $3 million bond.
If formal charges are filed next week as promised, he will face arraignment January 9.
The singer has maintained his innocence, saying the allegations against him are based on a "big lie."
The defense claims the boy and his family have brought the charges for financial gain. But prosecutors said the accuser does not plan to file a civil lawsuit against Jackson.
BRON: CNN
SAMENGEVAT:
Sources close to the prosecution told CNN there was a Jackson employee nearby during at least part of the interview by child welfare agency workers. And, the sources said, the employee's presence had an "intimidating" effect.
CONCLUSIE:
Dom van die Jackson-medewerker. Grote blunder van de kinderbescherming.
quote:Er zijn veel meer dan slechts één interview gehouden met de betrokkenen, ook apart van elkaar, dus de aanwezigheid van een MJ-medewerker in één van die gevallen zal toch niet zo heel belangrijk zijn dunkt me.
Op donderdag 11 december 2003 11:18 schreef Iwan1976 het volgende:
SAMENGEVAT:
Sources close to the prosecution told CNN there was a Jackson employee nearby during at least part of the interview by child welfare agency workers. And, the sources said, the employee's presence had an "intimidating" effect.CONCLUSIE:
Dom van die Jackson-medewerker. Grote blunder van de kinderbescherming.
Volgende punt is ook erg belangrijk aangaande de 'sleepovers'.
By accounts from those close to the family, Jackson would not be in-charge of anyone elses child/children and not have another person or persons there 24 hours a day in case of emergencies; even when they are asleep in his room. To understand that point, you must understand the logistics of these occasional Neverland sleepovers. Note these two quotes from Jackson family attorney Brian Oxman, via a transcript of his appearance on Fox news the show hosted by Bill OReilly in March of this year:
OXMAN: It's -- and the door is wide open here because it's like a physician who examines a female patient. They always have a female attendant present. What Martin Bashir didn't show you was the female attendants or the adult attendants who were present. Michael has them there to protect not only the children but himself as well.
OXMAN: He slept on the floor, and what Bashir left out was that in the next room with the doors wide open, in an anteroom, are guards there 24 hours a day
Toch een punt waar de aanklager eerst voorbij moet.
The tale of Sir Robin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8
quote:
Op donderdag 11 december 2003 11:18 schreef Iwan1976 het volgende:
SAMENGEVAT:
Sources close to the prosecution told CNN there was a Jackson employee nearby during at least part of the interview by child welfare agency workers. And, the sources said, the employee's presence had an "intimidating" effect.CONCLUSIE:
Dom van die Jackson-medewerker. Grote blunder van de kinderbescherming.
leuke conclusie trek jij uit het artikel.waarom dom van die Jackson medewerker? ..zonder die medewerker zou die jongen toch vertellen wat een gemene pedo die Michael is maar dat durfde hij nu niet ..zo'n conclusie zou ik er eerder uit trekken
quote:Indien er altijd female-attendants of whatever aanwezig zijn om de kinderen te beschermen doen die hun taak blijkbaar niet goed, anders zou die Gavin nooit hand in hand met MJ opduiken in dat interview zonder toestemming van zijn ouders (moeder).
Op donderdag 11 december 2003 19:04 schreef Brave_Sir_Robin het volgende:
OXMAN: It's -- and the door is wide open here because it's like a physician who examines a female patient. They always have a female attendant present. What Martin Bashir didn't show you was the female attendants or the adult attendants who were present. Michael has them there to protect not only the children but himself as well.
De moeder van G. was laaiend toen ze naderhand' vernam dat haar zoon zonder haar toestemming was gebruikt in het interview en er tevens vragen in beantwoorde alsmede vertelde van de slaappartijtjes bij MJ (zie diverse artikelen hierover).
Toezichthouders ter plekke kunnen zoiets nooit toestaan, hieruit blijkt dat het hen ging om MJ te beschermen en de gevolgen van het interview voor de 13-jarige G. aan hun laars lapten.
Zulke MJ-loyalen kun je imo dus evenmin vertrouwen aangaande controles op de sleepovers.
quote:Naar mijn weten hebben de ouders daar nooit een probleem van gemaakt.
Op donderdag 11 december 2003 20:09 schreef Cosma-Shiva het volgende:
Indien er altijd female-attendants of whatever aanwezig zijn om de kinderen te beschermen doen die hun taak blijkbaar niet goed, anders zou die Gavin nooit hand in hand met MJ opduiken in dat interview zonder toestemming van zijn ouders (moeder).
quote:Waarom heeft ze dan nog op tape gezegd dat MJ zo'n geschikte kerel was voor haar zoon? Dat was in Februari en toen was de docu al klaar.
De moeder van G. was laaiend toen ze naderhand' vernam dat haar zoon zonder haar toestemming was gebruikt in het interview en er tevens vragen in beantwoorde alsmede vertelde van de slaappartijtjes bij MJ (zie diverse artikelen hierover).
Pas toen haar zoontje werd gepest op school omdat hij zo innig met MJ in beeld was geweest werd ze, naar het schijnt, boos.
Er zijn zoveel verhalen hierover, er is nu onmogelijk vast te stellen wat de waarheid is. Mede daardoor denk ik dat MJ attendants heeft ingehuurd. Als getuigen. Want je mag dan wel in dienst van MJ zijn, dat betekent nog niet dat zo iemand automatisch misbruik door de vingers ziet. (Eerder andersom in dit geval)
The tale of Sir Robin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8
quote:Dat lijkt mij ook... en anders had die Bashir al lang een proces aan z'n broek gehad van die ouders.
Op donderdag 11 december 2003 21:47 schreef Brave_Sir_Robin het volgende:Naar mijn weten hebben de ouders daar nooit een probleem van gemaakt.
quote:Er zijn vele artikelen (uit feb-2003) hierover, ik post een willekeurige:
Op donderdag 11 december 2003 21:47 schreef Brave_Sir_Robin het volgende:Naar mijn weten hebben de ouders daar nooit een probleem van gemaakt.
Pas toen haar zoontje werd gepest op school omdat hij zo innig met MJ in beeld was geweest werd ze, naar het schijnt, boos.
quote:
Mother complains over Bashir interviewBy Chris Hastings and Elizabeth Day
Telegraph Group Limited
(Filed: 09/02/2003)The mother of the 12-year-old boy who admitted that he had shared a bedroom with Michael Jackson has defended the singer and reported Martin Bashir's documentary to the Broadcasting Standards Commission.
Janet Ventura-Arvizo said yesterday that Mr Bashir's interview with the 44-year-old American performer, entitled Living with Michael Jackson, was a "gross distortion of the truth" that breached broadcasting guidelines governing interviews with children.
She has now instructed Theodore Goddard, the London law firm, to lodge official complaints with the commission, which oversees British television, and the Independent Television Commission, the ITV watchdog. Both forbid interviews with children under 16 without the express permission of a parent or guardian.
In her first public comment on the ITV documentary, which was broadcast on British television last Monday, Mrs Ventura-Arvizo, who lives in Los Angeles, says she was appalled by the two-hour programme and the way it used her son, Gavin. She claims that Mr Bashir and his Granada team failed to obtain her written consent for the interview, in accordance with rules laid down by the BSC and ITC.
She also attacked the presenter's commentary, which alluded to previous child sex allegations made against the star. She claimed that those allusions distorted her son's relationship with the singer.
In a statement issued through Jackson's London representative, she said: "I am appalled at the way in which my son has been exploited by Martin Bashir and Granada Television. At no time did either I or Gavin's father sign a consent form for Gavin to be interviewed by Granada Television which I believe is a legal requirement both in the USA and in England, as Gavin is a minor."
She added: "I would never have given consent for Gavin to appear in Bashir's film which, in my opinion, is a complete distortion of the truth about Michael Jackson, as I know and admire him."
Two of Mrs Ventura-Arvizo's other children, Star and Davellin, have also stayed at the star's Neverland ranch. She claims that Jackson is like a father to them and has been a tremendous help to Gavin, who has been battling cancer.
She said: "At no time has Gavin ever been treated with anything other than love, respect and the deepest kindness by Michael. Michael has been so important in Gavin being able to recover from cancer. His constant support, both practical and emotional, helped give my beautiful little boy the strength to fight his cancer."
Jackson's aides hope that the complaint by Gavin's mother will stem a wave of criticism engulfing the singer a week after the film was aired. His admission that he continues to share his bed with children, a decade after he was embroiled in a child sex lawsuit, is threatening to destroy his career and could yet be the subject of a police inquiry.
Critics, however, are bound to question Mrs Ventura-Arvizo's motives, particularly after she admitted receiving gifts from the star. She was unavailable for comment last night after being moved by the singer's aides to a secret location.
At the centre of the dispute is the boy's disclosure to Mr Bashir that he has shared the singer's bedroom and even slept in his bed. In the documentary, which was watched by more than 35 million viewers when it was broadcast again on American television on Thursday, Gavin told the reporter how he had slept in the bed while Jackson had slept on the floor.
Mr Bashir's subsequent questions about the boy's parents suggest that the reporter might not have spoken to them about the sleepovers. At one stage he asks: "Were your parents happy that you were here with Michael? Did they come with you?"
In the commentary towards the end of the documentary that has infuriated Gavin's mother, Mr Bashir states that he "felt very uneasy after this conversation".
The complaint is the latest in a series of controversies involving Mr Bashir, who came to prominence when he interviewed Diana, Princess of Wales for the BBC's Panorama in 1995.
Granada Television insists that the programme was completed in accordance with proper procedures. A spokesman said: "We will be responding to the regulators when they raise these complaints with us. Until then it would be inappropriate for us to comment further."
The broadcaster refused to say last night whether permission had been sought from Gavin's parents but insisted that all proper procedures had been followed.
In 1994 Jackson was accused of molesting 13-year-old Jody Chandler. The star denied the allegations but paid the boy's parents £18 million to drop a civil case against him.
quote:Ze was toen (terecht) boos op Bashir en (nog) niet op MJ.
Op donderdag 11 december 2003 21:47 schreef Brave_Sir_Robin het volgende:Waarom heeft ze dan nog op tape gezegd dat MJ zo'n geschikte kerel was voor haar zoon? Dat was in Februari en toen was de docu al klaar.
quote:Op het feit dat Bashir haar zoon zo geëtaleerd had, plus haar zoon ging zich vreemd gedragen (door de pesterijen op school over zijn hand in hand zitten en slapen bij MJ) daarop stuurde ze hem na een therapeut, aan wie Gavin vervolgens het misbruik zou hebben verteld ect.
Pas toen haar zoontje werd gepest op school omdat hij zo innig met MJ in beeld was geweest werd ze, naar het schijnt, boos.
Michael Jacksons Parents Pledge to Adopt His Children If He Loses Custody
Dec. 11 - Michael Jackson's parents are joining their son's defense, saying the child molestation charges leveled against the pop star are false, and promising to adopt his children should he lose custody of them.
"We're not going to let nobody take those kids," Joe Jackson said in an interview airing Monday on Britain's ITV network. "They're Michael's kids. They has no right to try to take those kids."
Jackson has two children, Prince Michael I, 6, and Paris, 5, from his three-year marriage to Debbie Rowe. His third child, Prince Michael II, was born to an unidentified woman in 2002. The singer's own parents are worried that authorities may try to take away the children.
"It's going to be a big mess over that," said Jackson's mother, Katherine, adding, "I don't want to think that, because that would be really mean - just take his children from him like that for nothing. It's not right. They're just trying to humiliate him."
In the interview, Katherine Jackson told journalist Daphne Barak her son would be devastated if he were to lose custody of his children, but said she would be "right there" to adopt them if he did.
"They're my grandkids. I have to," Jackson's father added.
Don't Worry, It's Not the Truth
The Jacksons say Michael reacted calmly when the initial news of the allegation and charges broke, and has remained strong through the media firestorm fueled by the accusation.
"You know he was strong," said Katherine Jackson. "He said, 'Mother, don't worry, it's not the truth.' But I told him you don't know these wicked people, the people are just mean and wicked. I know it's not the truth, but they'll tarnish your reputation. ... It's just sad the way they're doing him and it's not right. He's stronger than I am about it."
"Knowing Michael, as a father, I know that he doesn't do things like that - his mother knows it too," says Joe Jackson.
They All Want Money
Jackson's mother says both the current and 1993 child molestation allegations leveled against her son were motivated by money. "People don't realize, and they don't care, that's what it is, they all want money," she said, saying the allegations hurt the entire Jackson family. "He has a family, he has a mother and a father, and he has nieces and nephews that go to school... We don't deserve this. We're good citizens, we treat everybody right. So why do we have to go through this? It's not right."
Jackson dismisses both the current allegation and the previous allegation that arose in 1993. "They know he hasn't done anything. The very first time, it was conspiracy for money. I had so many people later to come and tell me a lot of things about that. But, then Michael had a gag order on him, he couldn't talk about it. And, why would they wanna put a gag order on him? If he did it you know he wouldn't talk about it. But, they know that he didn't."
She also questioned why parents of alleged molestation victims would seek money in such case. "If someone came and molested your son would you ask 'em for money? ... No, you wouldn't ask 'em for money, would you? The first thing you would do, would beat their behind... is, beat 'em up real good, and then you would call the cops on 'em. Wouldn't you? ... This was a conspiracy. This man was trying to get money out of Michael all the time. And after he didn't get it, then... they trumped up these charges on him, and that's not the truth."
No One Knows How Much He Does
The Jacksons insist the recent molestation allegations against Michael and similar accusations he faced in a 1993 case were motivated by money and are false. They say their son is a good father whose generosity and good works often go unnoticed in the media.
"People just misrepresent Michael when they say these ugly things about him. He loves children," said Katherine Jackson. "We used to sit up and watch television, and they'd show all the poor children around the world - these children were so sick, flies flying all around their mouth - and he'd sit there and tears would come in his eyes, and he'd say, 'One day I'm going to do something about this.' This was when he was very young he was a teenager. He'd say, 'I know I can't heal the world, but I can help.' "
Joe Jackson added: "He has helped so many people - grown people and kids. And he gives to all kind of charities and things. That never hits the news. That's the only thing I worry about, because no one never knows how much he does."
Raising the Jackson Kids
In the interview, the Jacksons also touch on the upbringing of their nine children, which has been the subject of much public scrutiny over the years.
"I think I was a good father," said Joe Jackson. "I raised them and I fed them and kept plenty of clothes on them. We didn't have much, but what we had we was happy with."
Katherine Jackson says she would change two things about how her children were raised.
"The world is wicked today," she said. "You can't change the things that you really want to change. What I would do is I'd make sure that they took time out to go to college.
And I wish they were a little more spiritual than what they are, because they grew up going to Kingdom Hall with me. And, you know, I can't make them, because they're grown-ups now, but that's one of the things."
She added: "I did what I could back then."
Asked which of his kids is the most talented, Joe Jackson hedged a bit. "Let me name you three, right quick," he said. "It would be Michael, it would be Jermaine, and it would be Janet."
Watch the full interview Friday, Dec. 12, on 20/20 at 10 p.m.
BRON: ABCNEWS
Hoge dames vangen veel wind
Whadda ya hear! Whadda ya say!
What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?
Police Brutality in Santa Barbara????
Jermaine Jackson made a surprise appearance today via phone to speak to Dan Abrams on the Abrams Report on MSNBC.
In a voice filled with emotion, Jermaine stated that at the time that Michael voluntarily surrendered himself to the Santa Barbara police, he was physically roughed up while in their control.
Try as he might, Dan Abrams could not get to the details, but Jermaine assured him over and over again that Michael has the proof and it will be shown very soon. Jermaine stated that he could not discuss any details of the incident except to reiterate that Michael has the proof.
Jermaine also indicated that if this type of treatment by police can happen to Michael, there is a serious problem within the system.
Ik mis nog een foto van MJ in dit topic:
The tale of Sir Robin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8
quote:Spuit 11 wordt ook wakker. Jermaine heeft nooit van Rodney King gehoord?
[b]Op vrijdag 12 december 2003 13:14 schreef Brave_Sir_Robin het volgende:
Jermaine also indicated that if this type of treatment by police can happen to Michael, there is a serious problem within the system.
Maar nee, pas als het schijnbaar MJ overkomen is, is het een probleem.
Hoge dames vangen veel wind
Whadda ya hear! Whadda ya say!
What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?
quote:Dan zijn ze vast flink tekeer gegaan indien hij bijna een maand na dato nog emotioneel raakt wanneer hij erover spreekt.
Op vrijdag 12 december 2003 13:14 schreef Brave_Sir_Robin het volgende:Police Brutality in Santa Barbara????
Jermaine Jackson made a surprise appearance today via phone to speak to Dan Abrams on the Abrams Report on MSNBC.
In a voice filled with emotion, Jermaine stated that at the time that Michael voluntarily surrendered himself to the Santa Barbara police, he was physically roughed up while in their control.
De Santa Barbara police laat weten:
quote:
"We are schocked to learn about these outrageous allegations, they are all lies We would never harm Michael in any way, we love Michael.
We are bewildered at the length to which Michael Jackson and his family are willing to go to protray us so negatively.
We have never never hurt anybody in our entire live, we preech love, everybody should, it's the most beautifull thing in the world".
Leuk !
quote:Over ironie gesproken
Op vrijdag 12 december 2003 20:15 schreef Cosma-Shiva het volgende:"We are schocked to learn about these outrageous allegations, they are all lies.
We would never harm Michael in any way, we love Michael."
Ik ben benieuwd wat het harde bewijs van Michael is.
quote:
'We have never never hurt anybody in our entire live, we preech love, everybody should, it's the most beautifull thing in the world".
Hoge dames vangen veel wind
Whadda ya hear! Whadda ya say!
What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?
quote:Dat lijkt me dan ook niet echt.
Op vrijdag 12 december 2003 22:53 schreef Copycat het volgende:
Over overgedramatiseerde statements gesproken...
[..]
quote:Zo te zien getikt door een in de VS wonende Nederlandse persvoorlichter van de politie met een tekstverwerker zonder spellingchecker
Op vrijdag 12 december 2003 22:54 schreef Disorder het volgende:[..]
Dat lijkt me dan ook niet echt.
quote:Nu.nl
Autoriteiten willen kroost van Michael Jackson sprekenLOS ANGELES/NEW YORK - Sinds de arrestatie van de zanger Michael Jackson hebben de autoriteiten tevergeefs geprobeerd contact met zijn kinderen op te nemen. Maatschappelijk werkers werden keer op keer niet toegelaten tot het landgoed van de ster, de Neverland Ranch in Californië.
De onderzoekers van de welzijnszorg brachten ongeveer vijf keer een bezoek aan het landgoed, meldde de Amerikaanse krant New York Post dinsdag. Zij wilden met de twee zonen Michael I en Michael II en dochter Paris praten, nadat bekend was geworden dat hun vader wordt verdacht van seksueel misbruik.
Praten met Michael I en Michael II?
De jongste Michael telg is pas een paar maanden oud toch 
quote:Bron?
Op zaterdag 13 december 2003 12:32 schreef schatje het volgende:
Michael Jackson zou naaktfoto's van de jongen hebben genomen, en er is een getuige die daadwerkelijk zou hebben gezien dat Jackson seksueel misbruik maakte van de jongen.
Jacqueline Stallone, Sylvesters mom, is a well known psychic who predicted that Arnold Schwarzenegger would win election as Governor of California. Now Jacqueline says that Michael Jackson is innocent and will be vindicated.
BRON: NATIONAL ENQUIRER
quote:
Op zaterdag 13 december 2003 17:05 schreef Iwan1976 het volgende:
PSYCHIC STALLONE SAYS JACKSON INNOCENT
BRON: NATIONAL ENQUIRER
Deze week heel veel aan MJ gewijde pagina's in de NE
Hoge dames vangen veel wind
Whadda ya hear! Whadda ya say!
What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?
