Scholen draaien door: verbod op kleding met 88, Lo

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Op donderdag 27 februari 2003 21:24 schreef X-Ray het volgende:
Zo kan je wel OVERAL wat achter zoeken: 88 zou voor 2 maal de achtste letter van het alfbabet staan en dus voor HH=Heil Hitler! , .

Totale doordraaing zeg dit!

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88" used to refer chiefly to the Blizzard of 1888. Or, the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588. Perhaps not any more. The pulling by Target stores of a clothing-line emblazoned with "88" has focused intense attention on the insignia and its up-graded meaning. Was "88," an acronym for Heil Hitler comprised of two characters from the eighth letter of the alphabet, a white counterpart to the X clothing fad, idolizing Malcolm X, a few years ago? Is Hitler the icon to whites, the same as Malcolm is to Negroes? And, if so, to what extent? Who says so? And, why?

The news media jumped on the story, after Joseph Rodriguez said that he spotted a baseball cap with the "88" logo and complained to the Minneapolis-based chain-store that the insignia's identification with "white supremacy" offended him and Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center launched an Internet campaign against the clothing-line. Rush Limbaugh and G. Gordon Liddy took up tirades on their radio broadcasts against "88," Hitler and "white supremacy," with Liddy claiming that the logo was used by "immature kids who don't know anything about anything."

Indeed, according to Lonnie Dale, a spokesman for the Skinheadz website, "88" had become a fixture among an element of Third-Reich admirers, who use the inscription as part of their nicknames in Internet chat rooms. Bryan Reo called them "Hitler-worshipers" and claimed that they posed a "negative" influence upon rightist activism. Mark Cotterill, a former

liaison for the British National Party, broke with Alex Curtis, the former publisher of the now-defunct Nationalist Observer, who is imprisoned for "hate," when Curtis began to tout Hitler and violence over his web page. Ryan Wilson, former publisher of the Alpha website, has been a fugitive ever since depicting pictures of Hitler on his Internet page, along with exploding bombs, and being fined $1.1 million by the Department of Housing and Urban Development for "hate."
Desperation and oppression

According to Dale, "Desperate conditions and oppressive officials have driven many young men to desperate acts. Extolling Hitler is a protest by which some are saying, 'Bush has failed so miserably that the only one who seems plausible to get us out of this mess is Hitler.' It's the same as waving a pirate flag or flying the American flag upside down as a distress symbol." But Dale added that "the downside is that it tends to suggest that there are no living leaders or role models for rightists and that pro-majority sentiment is necessarily caught up in Hitler, which is not so."

The term "88" was popularized by Robert Miles, who conducted his "Mountain Church" from his Michigan residence during the Eighties. Miles, who had been convicted of bombing school busses to protest forced bussing, was, also, tried on federal charges of trying to overthrow the government. He was acquitted of "sedition" by a Fort Smith jury, but died shortly thereafter. Upon his death, Miles' family recommended that those on Miles' mailing list subscribe to Nationalist publications. Miles, however, ascribed the origin of "88" to James Rosenberg, who frequented Miles' annual gatherings.

Rosenberg, who used the aliases "Jimmy Mitchell" and "Jimmy Anderson," was a Jew who claimed to admire Hitler, the same as Dan Burros of Philadelphia, who dressed up as Hitler during the Sixties, but killed himself when his ancestry was revealed by the New York Times. Rosenberg, in his twenties, traveled the country attending rightist meetings, where he would urge participants to use the term, "88." He once attended a meeting of the Southern National Party, chaired by Elmore Greaves, and stayed at Greaves' house. Greaves, who flirted briefly with "88," was later convicted of tax-evasion. Rosenberg showed up at the Nationalist parade through Bensonhurst, New York, but was refused admittance by organizers.

According to Mark Bablin, a former friend of Miles, "Bob liked Jimmy, for some reason, and paid heed to him. Bob let Jimmy be a spokesman and speaker, even when others warned him otherwise." Rosenberg disappeared entirely in the early Nineties. Bablin speculates that he emigrated to Israel, along with John Acord, an early supporter of the late William L. Pierce. Followers of Pierce use the "88" term frequently on their website and displayed Nazi salutes and Nazi flags during a recent gathering at the U.S. Capitol.

Devious and clever

According to Dale, "The tactic seems to be a kind of disinformation ploy, to convince the American people that if you are pro-white you are automatically pro-Hitler. That would place a lid on rightist social-reformers, who aspire to power in the country, by casting them as foreign-leaning or unpatriotic. It has been a very devious yet clever device." The Jewish Anti-Defamation League, an Israeli lobbiest, has published an attack on the insignia, claiming that it is used by "white supremacists" and "haters." The ADL suggests that all of its main opponents are somehow involved in "88." Listees Louis Beam, Richard Butler, Alex Curtis, Matt Hale, David Lane and Tom Metzger have used the acronym. However, listees Bo Gritz, David Irving, Richard Barrett, Pete Peters, Bradley Smith and Ernst Zundel have not.

The Nationalist Movement, in its Glossary of terms to avoid, includes "88" as a no-no, describing it as "a kind of cult symbolism. The expression tends to tie anyone using it in with conspiracies or criminal activity. It unnecessarily stereotypes the user as anti-social and pro-foreign, which contradicts the pro-American and patriotic stance." Target spokeswoman Carolyn Brookter told the Sacramento Bee that the "88" clothing-line had been originated by Utility, a Target "in-house" designer, but would not elaborate.

Was Target capitalizing on a fad already extant in the country? Or, was it attempting to hype a fad with an eye to controlling it? It would not be new for "the left to be sent over to lead the right." David Holland, an opponent of the Civil Rights Bill, repeatedly used attorney Michael Hauptman, a Jewish homosexual, until Holland was convicted of "hate" and "perjury" and imprisoned. Matt Hale, a self-confessed atheist who describes himself as "pro-white," doesn't leave home without attorneys Glen Greenwald and Alan Dershowitz, who have represented him in various losing legal skirmishes. Corkey Bowman, however, a pioneer of the Skinhead cause, said that "I urge my friends to stay away from that neo-Nazi stuff. Nationalism and Americanism is our cause and fighting the Communists, minorities and homosexuals is our battle."

Alternative to tradition

With "88" pulled from Target shelves, will the insignia continue with a life of its own and possibly, even, expand? "The hippies waved the Viet-Cong flag during the Sixties and they eventually took over the country," said Dale. "Of course, they put away their flags during the Clinton Administration, but they put their Red agenda into action." Could the reverse take place with protesters using "88"? "Confederate-flag wavers took over in Mississippi, recently, and there is no doubt that bold political drama can make changes," stressed Dale. "We will have to see where it all goes, but I still think that '88' is too-foreign and too-negative for American consumption. I like the Crosstar symbol." Dale added that it was "not surprising" to see youth seeking alternatives to traditional patriotism with President George W. Bush "profaning the American flag" with support for Israel, atrocities in Afghanistan and advancing of the New World Order.

The Target clothing-line festooned the "88" logo with a bat or dragon, which might have been a sign of occult or Satanic influence. George Burdi, the founder of Resistance Records who, also, used "88," had dabbled in Satanism and "white-power" music, before selling out to Pierce and moving in with his East-Indian concubine. Burdi, a Bulgarian Gypsy living in Canada, had since organized a band composed of Jews, homosexuals and Negroes, but which fizzled. Hendrik Mobus, a self-described "Child of Satan" now jailed in Germany in connection with a murder, had used "88" in various musical productions in which he attempted to blend devil-worship with "white supremacy." But, according to Reo, it didn't fly. "America is white and Christian," he said.

But George Rosenbaum, a Chicago "retail consultant," insisted to the Pioneer Press in Saint Paul that "88" remains "trendy" and "appealing to youth." Dale had a somewhat different take. "What is appealing to youth is stark reality and unsophisticated honesty," he said. "If someone farts in a room, the youngest one there will react quickly and negatively, while those older will act diplomatically and pretend nothing is wrong. There is something wrong when minorities can take over, foreigners can run the show and the President can fart on America. Youth sees this happening, wants change and will stick their necks out to get attention and make change. That is not just 'trendy,' it is reality."

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Op donderdag 27 februari 2003 21:26 schreef FlyingFox het volgende:
terecht...zoiets koop je gewoon niet als je van te voren weet dat 88 vor heil hitler staat.

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Wordt overigens wel heel erg lullig als je in 1988 geboren bent.

En natuurlijk niet te vergeten die boeren die trots zijn dat hun voetbalclub in "aaaaaguntaaaagutiiggg" een of andere beker gewonnen had. Als ik me het goed herinner was het een ajaxiet die die vreemde uitspraak had. Sindsdien is het in mijn vriendin kring een soort magisch getal, net als 6 (spreek uit met een lage diepe rockers stem). En zelfs een paar mensen daarvan stemmen SP en 1 meisje GL. Dus is dat geval van ons heeft het ook totaal geen fuck te maken met dit voorval.

Mensen moeten zich niet zo storen aan dat soort dingen. Het is juist
alleen stoer omdat mensen zich eraan storen. Zelfs dat lonsdale gedoe, kom op zelfs van die "allochtone" nederlanders die kickboxen hebben van die shorts met dat merk erop. Hoe racistisch is het dan?

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Op donderdag 27 februari 2003 21:31 schreef daburnd88 het volgende:

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Duh, je hoeft ook niet persee te weten dat het daarvoor staat.

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Op donderdag 27 februari 2003 21:32 schreef X-Ray het volgende:
Oh ja, nu zie ik het verband.

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Dan kan die appie heijn ook lekker een nieuwe naam nemen.

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Op donderdag 27 februari 2003 21:33 schreef X-Ray het volgende:

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Mijn nummerbord heeft HH erin :´(.

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(geintje)

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Op donderdag 27 februari 2003 21:33 schreef SunChaser het volgende:

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Je weet waarvoor het staat, omdat heel de wereld dat weet. Of je moet dom zijn natuurlijk. Of je je er wat van aan moet trekken is een tweede.

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Neem bijvoorbeeld AE - Albert Einstein - Duitse naam? Reden genoeg om te verbieden?

Misschien moeten we gewoon de H uit het alfabet halen, dan kan je meteen niet meer sieg heil, heil hitler of adolf hitler zeggen. Ook niet rudolf hess.

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Op donderdag 27 februari 2003 21:36 schreef daburnd88 het volgende:

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Jij impliceert dat het daarvoor staat. Ik zeg alleen dat ik weet dat mensen dat denken

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Zeker weer zo een nazi praktijk of nie?

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Op donderdag 27 februari 2003 21:37 schreef X-Ray het volgende:
Ik heb er echt nog nooit van gehoord.

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Op donderdag 27 februari 2003 21:37 schreef SunChaser het volgende:

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En als Neo-Nazi het massaal dragen, is het dan wel anders?

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Bombers en kisten worden ook massaal door hun gedragen. Met scheermesjes maken ze hun koppen kaal. Ze drinken ook water.
Ze eten waarschijnlijk af en toe ook friet.

Zullen die dingen dat allemaal verbieden?