BNW Brave New World
Samenzwering, verborgen agenda's en geheime geschiedenis. De zoektocht naar de wereld die achter de façade van alledag ligt.
https://www.nytimes.com/2(...)a.html?smid=tw-share
For more than a year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has collected data on hospitalizations for Covid-19 in the United States and broken it down by age, race and vaccination status. But it has not made most of the information public.
When the C.D.C. published the first significant data on the effectiveness of boosters in adults younger than 65 two weeks ago, it left out the numbers for a huge portion of that population: 18- to 49-year-olds, the group least likely to benefit from extra shots, because the first two doses already left them well-protected.
The agency recently debuted a dashboard of wastewater data on its website that will be updated daily and might provide early signals of an oncoming surge of Covid cases. Some states and localities had been sharing wastewater information with the agency since the start of the pandemic, but it had never before released those findings.
Two full years into the pandemic, the agency leading the country’s response to the public health emergency has published only a tiny fraction of the data it has collected, several people familiar with the data said.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story
Much of the withheld information could help state and local health officials better target their efforts to bring the virus under control. Detailed, timely data on hospitalizations by age and race would help health officials identify and help the populations at highest risk. Information on hospitalizations and death by age and vaccination status would have helped inform whether healthy adults needed booster shots. And wastewater surveillance across the nation would spot outbreaks and emerging variants early.
Without the booster data for 18- to 49-year-olds, the outside experts whom federal health agencies look to for advice had to rely on numbers from Israel to make their recommendations on the shots.
Kristen Nordlund, a spokeswoman for the C.D.C., said the agency has been slow to release the different streams of data “because basically, at the end of the day, it’s not yet ready for prime time.” She said the agency’s “priority when gathering any data is to ensure that it’s accurate and actionable.”
Another reason is fear that the information might be misinterpreted, Ms. Nordlund said.
Dr. Daniel Jernigan, the agency’s deputy director for public health science and surveillance said the pandemic exposed the fact that data systems at the C.D.C., and at the state levels, are outmoded and not up to handling large volumes of data. C.D.C. scientists are trying to modernize the systems, he said.
“We want better, faster data that can lead to decision making and actions at all levels of public health, that can help us eliminate the lag in data that has held us back,” he added.
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Continue reading the main story
The C.D.C. also has multiple bureaucratic divisions that must sign off on important publications, and its officials must alert the Department of Health and Human Services — which oversees the agency — and the White House of their plans. The agency often shares data with states and partners before making data public. Those steps can add delays.
“The C.D.C. is a political organization as much as it is a public health organization,” said Samuel Scarpino, managing director of pathogen surveillance at the Rockefeller Foundation’s Pandemic Prevention Institute. “The steps that it takes to get something like this released are often well outside of the control of many of the scientists that work at the C.D.C.”
The performance of vaccines and boosters, particularly in younger adults, is among the most glaring omissions in data the C.D.C. has made public.
Last year, the agency repeatedly came under fire for not tracking so-called breakthrough infections in vaccinated Americans, and focusing only on individuals who became ill enough to be hospitalized or die. The agency presented that information as risk comparisons with unvaccinated adults, rather than provide timely snapshots of hospitalized patients stratified by age, sex, race and vaccination status.
Image
President Biden joined a virtual meeting with the White House Covid-19 Response Team in December.
President Biden joined a virtual meeting with the White House Covid-19 Response Team in December. Credit...Cheriss May for The New York Times
But the C.D.C. has been routinely collecting information since the Covid vaccines were first rolled out last year, according to a federal official familiar with the effort. The agency has been reluctant to make those figures public, the official said, because they might be misinterpreted as the vaccines being ineffective.
Ms. Nordlund confirmed that as one of the reasons. Another reason, she said, is that the data represents only 10 percent of the population of the United States. But the C.D.C. has relied on the same level of sampling to track influenza for years.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story
Some outside public health experts were stunned to hear that information exists.
“We have been begging for that sort of granularity of data for two years,” said Jessica Malaty Rivera, an epidemiologist and part of the team that ran Covid Tracking Project, an independent effort that compiled data on the pandemic till March 2021.
A detailed analysis, she said, “builds public trust, and it paints a much clearer picture of what’s actually going on.”
Concern about the misinterpretation of hospitalization data broken down by vaccination status is not unique to the C.D.C. On Thursday, public health officials in Scotland said they would stop releasing data on Covid hospitalizations and deaths by vaccination status because of similar fears that the figures would be misrepresented by anti-vaccine groups.
The Coronavirus Pandemic: Latest Updates
Updated
Feb. 21, 2022, 8:30 a.m. ET56 minutes ago
56 minutes ago
England is set to ease all coronavirus rules as Queen Elizabeth battles an infection.
Was Canada’s protest over Covid policies a one-time event or a sign of something bigger?
Hong Kong turns to traditional medicine to help tame an Omicron outbreak.
But the experts dismissed the potential misuse or misinterpretation of data as an acceptable reason for not releasing it.
“We are at a much greater risk of misinterpreting the data with data vacuums, than sharing the data with proper science, communication and caveats,” Ms. Rivera said.
When the Delta variant caused an outbreak in Massachusetts last summer, the fact that three-quarters of those infected were vaccinated led people to mistakenly conclude that the vaccines were powerless against the virus — validating the C.D.C.’s concerns.
But that could have been avoided if the agency had educated the public from the start that as more people are vaccinated, the percentage of vaccinated people who are infected or hospitalized would also rise, public health experts said.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story
“Tell the truth, present the data,” said Dr. Paul Offit, a vaccine expert and adviser to the Food and Drug Administration. “I have to believe that there is a way to explain these things so people can understand it.”
Knowing which groups of people were being hospitalized in the United States, which other conditions those patients may have had and how vaccines changed the picture over time would have been invaluable, Dr. Offit said.
Relying on Israeli data to make booster recommendations for Americans was less than ideal, Dr. Offit noted. Israel defines severe disease differently than the United States, among other factors.
“There’s no reason that they should be better at collecting and putting forth data than we were,” Dr. Offit said of Israeli scientists. “The C.D.C. is the principal epidemiological agency in this country, and so you would like to think the data came from them.”
It has also been difficult to find C.D.C. data on the proportion of children hospitalized for Covid who have other medical conditions, said Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics’s Committee on Infectious Diseases.
The academy’s staff asked their partners at the C.D.C. for that information on a call in December, according to a spokeswoman for the A.A.P., and were told it was unavailable.
The Coronavirus Pandemic: Key Things to Know
Card 1 of 3
Queen Elizabeth tests positive. The 95-year-old British monarch has been infected with the coronavirus and is “experiencing mild coldlike symptoms,” Buckingham Palace said. The announcement comes as Prime Minister Boris Johnson is poised to lift England’s remaining Covid restrictions.
C.D.C. data. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has published only a tiny fraction of the Covid data it has collected, including critical data on boosters and hospitalizations, citing incomplete reports or fears of misinterpretation. Critics say the practice causes confusion.
The virus in the U.S. Cases continue to drop nationwide, including in New York, where the latest data offered some optimism after a challenging year. Gov. Gavin Newsom of California and other U.S. governors are shifting to policies that accept living with uncertainty over possible new variants.
Ms. Nordlund pointed to data on the agency’s website that includes this information, and to multiple published reports on pediatric hospitalizations with information on children who have other health conditions.
The pediatrics academy has repeatedly asked the C.D.C. for an estimate on the contagiousness of a person infected with the coronavirus five days after symptoms begin — but Dr. Maldonado finally got the answer from an article in The New York Times in December.
“They’ve known this for over a year and a half, right, and they haven’t told us,” she said. “I mean, you can’t find out anything from them.”
Experts in wastewater analysis were more understanding of the C.D.C.’s slow pace of making that data public. The C.D.C. has been building the wastewater system since September 2020, and the capacity to present the data over the past few months, Ms. Nordlund said. In the meantime, the C.D.C.’s state partners have had access to the data, she said.
Despite the cautious preparation, the C.D.C. released the wastewater data a week later than planned. The Covid Data Tracker is updated only on Thursdays, and the day before the original release date, the scientists who manage the tracker realized they needed more time to integrate the data.
“It wasn’t because the data wasn’t ready, it was because the systems and how it physically displayed on the page wasn’t working the way that they wanted it to,” Ms. Nordlund said.
The C.D.C. has received more than $1 billion to modernize its systems, which may help pick up the pace, Ms. Nordlund said. “We’re working on that,” she said.
The agency’s public dashboard now has data from 31 states. Eight of those states, including Utah, began sending their figures to the C.D.C. in the fall of 2020. Some relied on scientists volunteering their expertise; others paid private companies. But many others, such as Mississippi, New Mexico and North Dakota, have yet to begin tracking wastewater.
Utah’s fledgling program in April 2020 has now grown to cover 88 percent of the state’s population, with samples being collected twice a week, according to Nathan LaCross, who manages Utah’s wastewater surveillance program.
Wastewater data reflects the presence of the virus in an entire community, so it is not plagued by the privacy concerns attached to medical information that would normally complicate data release, experts said.
“There are a bunch of very important and substantive legal and ethical challenges that don’t exist for wastewater data,” Dr. Scarpino said. “That lowered bar should certainly mean that data could flow faster.”
Tracking wastewater can help identify areas experiencing a high burden of cases early, Dr. LaCross said. That allows officials to better allocate resources like mobile testing teams and testing sites.
Wastewater is also a much faster and more reliable barometer of the spread of the virus than the number of cases or positive tests. Well before the nation became aware of the Delta variant, for example, scientists who track wastewater had seen its rise and alerted the C.D.C., Dr. Scarpino said. They did so in early May, just before the agency famously said vaccinated people could take off their masks.
Even now, the agency is relying on a technique that captures the amount of virus, but not the different variants in the mix, said Mariana Matus, chief executive officer of BioBot Analytics, which specializes in wastewater analysis. That will make it difficult for the agency to spot and respond to outbreaks of new variants in a timely manner, she said.
“It gets really exhausting when you see the private sector working faster than the premier public health agency of the world,” Ms. Rivera said.
For more than a year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has collected data on hospitalizations for Covid-19 in the United States and broken it down by age, race and vaccination status. But it has not made most of the information public.
When the C.D.C. published the first significant data on the effectiveness of boosters in adults younger than 65 two weeks ago, it left out the numbers for a huge portion of that population: 18- to 49-year-olds, the group least likely to benefit from extra shots, because the first two doses already left them well-protected.
The agency recently debuted a dashboard of wastewater data on its website that will be updated daily and might provide early signals of an oncoming surge of Covid cases. Some states and localities had been sharing wastewater information with the agency since the start of the pandemic, but it had never before released those findings.
Two full years into the pandemic, the agency leading the country’s response to the public health emergency has published only a tiny fraction of the data it has collected, several people familiar with the data said.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story
Much of the withheld information could help state and local health officials better target their efforts to bring the virus under control. Detailed, timely data on hospitalizations by age and race would help health officials identify and help the populations at highest risk. Information on hospitalizations and death by age and vaccination status would have helped inform whether healthy adults needed booster shots. And wastewater surveillance across the nation would spot outbreaks and emerging variants early.
Without the booster data for 18- to 49-year-olds, the outside experts whom federal health agencies look to for advice had to rely on numbers from Israel to make their recommendations on the shots.
Kristen Nordlund, a spokeswoman for the C.D.C., said the agency has been slow to release the different streams of data “because basically, at the end of the day, it’s not yet ready for prime time.” She said the agency’s “priority when gathering any data is to ensure that it’s accurate and actionable.”
Another reason is fear that the information might be misinterpreted, Ms. Nordlund said.
Dr. Daniel Jernigan, the agency’s deputy director for public health science and surveillance said the pandemic exposed the fact that data systems at the C.D.C., and at the state levels, are outmoded and not up to handling large volumes of data. C.D.C. scientists are trying to modernize the systems, he said.
“We want better, faster data that can lead to decision making and actions at all levels of public health, that can help us eliminate the lag in data that has held us back,” he added.
Editors’ Picks
Farewell, Readers, It’s Been a Remarkable Ride
Pickleball Is Ready for Prime Time
How a Book Is Made
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story
The C.D.C. also has multiple bureaucratic divisions that must sign off on important publications, and its officials must alert the Department of Health and Human Services — which oversees the agency — and the White House of their plans. The agency often shares data with states and partners before making data public. Those steps can add delays.
“The C.D.C. is a political organization as much as it is a public health organization,” said Samuel Scarpino, managing director of pathogen surveillance at the Rockefeller Foundation’s Pandemic Prevention Institute. “The steps that it takes to get something like this released are often well outside of the control of many of the scientists that work at the C.D.C.”
The performance of vaccines and boosters, particularly in younger adults, is among the most glaring omissions in data the C.D.C. has made public.
Last year, the agency repeatedly came under fire for not tracking so-called breakthrough infections in vaccinated Americans, and focusing only on individuals who became ill enough to be hospitalized or die. The agency presented that information as risk comparisons with unvaccinated adults, rather than provide timely snapshots of hospitalized patients stratified by age, sex, race and vaccination status.
Image
President Biden joined a virtual meeting with the White House Covid-19 Response Team in December.
President Biden joined a virtual meeting with the White House Covid-19 Response Team in December. Credit...Cheriss May for The New York Times
But the C.D.C. has been routinely collecting information since the Covid vaccines were first rolled out last year, according to a federal official familiar with the effort. The agency has been reluctant to make those figures public, the official said, because they might be misinterpreted as the vaccines being ineffective.
Ms. Nordlund confirmed that as one of the reasons. Another reason, she said, is that the data represents only 10 percent of the population of the United States. But the C.D.C. has relied on the same level of sampling to track influenza for years.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story
Some outside public health experts were stunned to hear that information exists.
“We have been begging for that sort of granularity of data for two years,” said Jessica Malaty Rivera, an epidemiologist and part of the team that ran Covid Tracking Project, an independent effort that compiled data on the pandemic till March 2021.
A detailed analysis, she said, “builds public trust, and it paints a much clearer picture of what’s actually going on.”
Concern about the misinterpretation of hospitalization data broken down by vaccination status is not unique to the C.D.C. On Thursday, public health officials in Scotland said they would stop releasing data on Covid hospitalizations and deaths by vaccination status because of similar fears that the figures would be misrepresented by anti-vaccine groups.
The Coronavirus Pandemic: Latest Updates
Updated
Feb. 21, 2022, 8:30 a.m. ET56 minutes ago
56 minutes ago
England is set to ease all coronavirus rules as Queen Elizabeth battles an infection.
Was Canada’s protest over Covid policies a one-time event or a sign of something bigger?
Hong Kong turns to traditional medicine to help tame an Omicron outbreak.
But the experts dismissed the potential misuse or misinterpretation of data as an acceptable reason for not releasing it.
“We are at a much greater risk of misinterpreting the data with data vacuums, than sharing the data with proper science, communication and caveats,” Ms. Rivera said.
When the Delta variant caused an outbreak in Massachusetts last summer, the fact that three-quarters of those infected were vaccinated led people to mistakenly conclude that the vaccines were powerless against the virus — validating the C.D.C.’s concerns.
But that could have been avoided if the agency had educated the public from the start that as more people are vaccinated, the percentage of vaccinated people who are infected or hospitalized would also rise, public health experts said.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story
“Tell the truth, present the data,” said Dr. Paul Offit, a vaccine expert and adviser to the Food and Drug Administration. “I have to believe that there is a way to explain these things so people can understand it.”
Knowing which groups of people were being hospitalized in the United States, which other conditions those patients may have had and how vaccines changed the picture over time would have been invaluable, Dr. Offit said.
Relying on Israeli data to make booster recommendations for Americans was less than ideal, Dr. Offit noted. Israel defines severe disease differently than the United States, among other factors.
“There’s no reason that they should be better at collecting and putting forth data than we were,” Dr. Offit said of Israeli scientists. “The C.D.C. is the principal epidemiological agency in this country, and so you would like to think the data came from them.”
It has also been difficult to find C.D.C. data on the proportion of children hospitalized for Covid who have other medical conditions, said Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics’s Committee on Infectious Diseases.
The academy’s staff asked their partners at the C.D.C. for that information on a call in December, according to a spokeswoman for the A.A.P., and were told it was unavailable.
The Coronavirus Pandemic: Key Things to Know
Card 1 of 3
Queen Elizabeth tests positive. The 95-year-old British monarch has been infected with the coronavirus and is “experiencing mild coldlike symptoms,” Buckingham Palace said. The announcement comes as Prime Minister Boris Johnson is poised to lift England’s remaining Covid restrictions.
C.D.C. data. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has published only a tiny fraction of the Covid data it has collected, including critical data on boosters and hospitalizations, citing incomplete reports or fears of misinterpretation. Critics say the practice causes confusion.
The virus in the U.S. Cases continue to drop nationwide, including in New York, where the latest data offered some optimism after a challenging year. Gov. Gavin Newsom of California and other U.S. governors are shifting to policies that accept living with uncertainty over possible new variants.
Ms. Nordlund pointed to data on the agency’s website that includes this information, and to multiple published reports on pediatric hospitalizations with information on children who have other health conditions.
The pediatrics academy has repeatedly asked the C.D.C. for an estimate on the contagiousness of a person infected with the coronavirus five days after symptoms begin — but Dr. Maldonado finally got the answer from an article in The New York Times in December.
“They’ve known this for over a year and a half, right, and they haven’t told us,” she said. “I mean, you can’t find out anything from them.”
Experts in wastewater analysis were more understanding of the C.D.C.’s slow pace of making that data public. The C.D.C. has been building the wastewater system since September 2020, and the capacity to present the data over the past few months, Ms. Nordlund said. In the meantime, the C.D.C.’s state partners have had access to the data, she said.
Despite the cautious preparation, the C.D.C. released the wastewater data a week later than planned. The Covid Data Tracker is updated only on Thursdays, and the day before the original release date, the scientists who manage the tracker realized they needed more time to integrate the data.
“It wasn’t because the data wasn’t ready, it was because the systems and how it physically displayed on the page wasn’t working the way that they wanted it to,” Ms. Nordlund said.
The C.D.C. has received more than $1 billion to modernize its systems, which may help pick up the pace, Ms. Nordlund said. “We’re working on that,” she said.
The agency’s public dashboard now has data from 31 states. Eight of those states, including Utah, began sending their figures to the C.D.C. in the fall of 2020. Some relied on scientists volunteering their expertise; others paid private companies. But many others, such as Mississippi, New Mexico and North Dakota, have yet to begin tracking wastewater.
Utah’s fledgling program in April 2020 has now grown to cover 88 percent of the state’s population, with samples being collected twice a week, according to Nathan LaCross, who manages Utah’s wastewater surveillance program.
Wastewater data reflects the presence of the virus in an entire community, so it is not plagued by the privacy concerns attached to medical information that would normally complicate data release, experts said.
“There are a bunch of very important and substantive legal and ethical challenges that don’t exist for wastewater data,” Dr. Scarpino said. “That lowered bar should certainly mean that data could flow faster.”
Tracking wastewater can help identify areas experiencing a high burden of cases early, Dr. LaCross said. That allows officials to better allocate resources like mobile testing teams and testing sites.
Wastewater is also a much faster and more reliable barometer of the spread of the virus than the number of cases or positive tests. Well before the nation became aware of the Delta variant, for example, scientists who track wastewater had seen its rise and alerted the C.D.C., Dr. Scarpino said. They did so in early May, just before the agency famously said vaccinated people could take off their masks.
Even now, the agency is relying on a technique that captures the amount of virus, but not the different variants in the mix, said Mariana Matus, chief executive officer of BioBot Analytics, which specializes in wastewater analysis. That will make it difficult for the agency to spot and respond to outbreaks of new variants in a timely manner, she said.
“It gets really exhausting when you see the private sector working faster than the premier public health agency of the world,” Ms. Rivera said.
Als je het niet kunt oplossen, is het geen probleem.
Het verhaal wordt steeds mooier.quote:Op maandag 21 februari 2022 15:27 schreef greysbones het volgende:
https://www.nytimes.com/2(...)a.html?smid=tw-share
Krijg ook geen warme gevoelens van Canada.
Wat’n chaos!
Ik vraag me af hoe ver deze despoot moet gaan voor ook hier de usual wegkijkertjes tot inkeer komen 
.
.
A gentle wave of heat flows over the FOK! forum
Get woke, go broke!
Get woke, go broke!
Zijn er al EU leiders opgestaan tegen dit verhaal!?quote:Op maandag 21 februari 2022 17:44 schreef HeatWave het volgende:
Ik vraag me af hoe ver deze despoot moet gaan voor ook hier de usual wegkijkertjes tot inkeer komen
Bij BLM moesten we allemaal meevoelen, terwijl hele steden gesloopt werden en hier doen we alsof er terroristen aan het werk zijn, hoewel ik alleen maar springkussens en feestjes zie.
Rutte met z'n polarisatie 
Hij is zelf de oorzaak van alle polarisatie momenteel
Hij is zelf de oorzaak van alle polarisatie momenteel
Gaat voor de BHFH-award 2005!
Humanitas est in bestias bonitas.
I am the hole I can't get out of.
Humanitas est in bestias bonitas.
I am the hole I can't get out of.
Ik heb wel afkeurende tweets gezien van de Premier van Roemenie en nog wat andere landen die volgens Rutte en Trudeau (oa) als zwaar ondemocratisch moeten worden gezienquote:Op maandag 21 februari 2022 17:47 schreef _I het volgende:
[..]
Zijn er al EU leiders opgestaan tegen dit verhaal!?
Bij BLM moesten we allemaal meevoelen, terwijl hele steden gesloopt werden en hier doen we alsof er terroristen aan het werk zijn, hoewel ik alleen maar springkussens en feestjes zie.
.
A gentle wave of heat flows over the FOK! forum
Get woke, go broke!
Get woke, go broke!
quote:
Rutte met z'n polarisatie
Laten we het vooral niet over de afgelopen 2 jaar hebben, maar lekker naast elkaar staan nu alle maatregelen zgn vervallen.
Kijkt u hier naar links, dan ziet u rechts niets..
Heb je 50 euro gedoneerd aan een protest, ben je je bankrekening, spaargeld en straks kinderen en huisdieren kwijt.quote:
[..]
Ik heb wel afkeurende tweets gezien van de Premier van Roemenie en nog wat andere landen die volgens Rutte en Trudeau (oa) als zwaar ondemocratisch moeten worden gezien
Heel normaal.
Nou ja en buiten de coronacrisis heeft hij Nederland in een wooncrisis gestort, een energiecrisis en talloze andere crises waarin de rijken er altijd beter uitkomen en de armen slechter. De VVD is een polariserende partij omdat ze de rijken rijker willen maken en de armen ... nou niet per se armer maar ook zeker niet rijker.quote:
[..]
[ twitter ]
Laten we het vooral niet over de afgelopen 2 jaar hebben, maar lekker naast elkaar staan nu alle maatregelen zgn vervallen.
Kijkt u hier naar links, dan ziet u rechts niets..
Gaat voor de BHFH-award 2005!
Humanitas est in bestias bonitas.
I am the hole I can't get out of.
Humanitas est in bestias bonitas.
I am the hole I can't get out of.
En in het truckerstopic zagen een aantal usuals dat het goed was. Hoe kan en durf je hier achter te staan denk ik dan?quote:
[..]
Heb je 50 euro gedoneerd aan een protest, ben je je bankrekening, spaargeld en straks kinderen en huisdieren kwijt.
Heel normaal.
.
A gentle wave of heat flows over the FOK! forum
Get woke, go broke!
Get woke, go broke!
File under: Guyvies Ongelooflijk Verhaaltjes.quote:
[..]
Ik geloof er maar weinig van. Net zoals dat verhaal dat die chef vaccins had geregeld voor zijn personeel.
Tja, ook die verhaaltje over de politie agenten die gezellige een bakkie koffie hebben gedaan en (onze held)gayvie een hele doos mondkapjes aan ze heeft gegeven.
Mad as a hatter, die gast.
In the new 'reality' we will be living in,nothing will be real and everything will be true-David A.McGowan
Why do some people not credit the origin of the quotes they use under their posts?- Tingo
Why do some people not credit the origin of the quotes they use under their posts?- Tingo
Schandaal op schandaal.quote:
[..]
Nou ja en buiten de coronacrisis heeft hij Nederland in een wooncrisis gestort, een energiecrisis en talloze andere crises waarin de rijken er altijd beter uitkomen en de armen slechter. De VVD is een polariserende partij omdat ze de rijken rijker willen maken en de armen ... nou niet per se armer maar ook zeker niet rijker.
Vandaag weer een slecht rapport over de afhandeling van die kinderen uit het toeslagenschandaal.
Niet best allemaal.
Totdat jouw rekening bevroren is omdat er een andere Jan Bakker aanwezig was.quote:
[..]
En in het truckerstopic zagen een aantal usuals dat het goed was. Hoe kan en durf je hier achter te staan denk ik dan?
Mag overigens hopen dat ze het niet voor elkaar krijgen om cryptorekeningen te bevriezen.
Verwacht nog wel een bankrun en eventueel een burgeroorlog daar. Heb er een slecht gevoel over.
Dit kan wel een heel erg misgaan ja. Ik snap nooit dat die mensen er zo makkelijk over doen als ze het nu toevallig eens zijn met de huidige regering. Voor je het weet slaat de stemming in een land om en heeft je aartsvijand opeens die macht in handen.quote:Op maandag 21 februari 2022 17:57 schreef _I het volgende:
[..]
Totdat jouw rekening bevroren is omdat er een andere Jan Bakker aanwezig was.
Mag overigens hopen dat ze het niet voor elkaar krijgen om cryptorekeningen te bevriezen.
Verwacht nog wel een bankrun en eventueel een burgeroorlog daar. Heb er een slecht gevoel over.
Hoe kortzichtig kan je zijn?
A gentle wave of heat flows over the FOK! forum
Get woke, go broke!
Get woke, go broke!
Omdat er alles aan is gedaan om de massa te laten geloven dat het in lijn is met de beste weg voor de volksgezondheid. Men staat achter de beslissingen uit angst.quote:
[..]
Dit kan wel een heel erg misgaan ja. Ik snap nooit dat die mensen er zo makkelijk over doen als ze het nu toevallig eens zijn met de huidige regering. Voor je het weet slaat de stemming in een land om en heeft je aartsvijand opeens die macht in handen.
Hoe kortzichtig kan je zijn?
Zich niet realiserend dat zij de volgende zijn die aan de beurt zijn, als er een nieuwe arbitraire lijk getrokken wordt. Blijk je 2 jaar geleden iets op Twitter te hebben gezegd wat nu niet meer zo goed valt. Dag baan en geld.
Of je hebt je zoals in Italië niet laten inenten, waardoor je geen onderdeel meer bent van de maatschappij volgens sommigen. Misdaad prima, geen vaccin; melaatse.
Sja, ik heb me ook heel lang afgevraagd hoe het in de jaren 30 zo "makkelijk" is geweest om een heel land achter Hitler te krijgen. Maar inmiddels is wel duidelijk dat het idd helemaal niet zo lastig isquote:
[..]
Omdat er alles aan is gedaan om de massa te laten geloven dat het in lijn is met de beste weg voor de volksgezondheid. Men staat achter de beslissingen uit angst.
Zich niet realiserend dat zij de volgende zijn die aan de beurt zijn, als er een nieuwe arbitraire lijk getrokken wordt. Blijk je 2 jaar geleden iets op Twitter te hebben gezegd wat nu niet meer zo goed valt. Dag baan en geld.
Of je hebt je zoals in Italië niet laten inenten, waardoor je geen onderdeel meer bent van de maatschappij volgens sommigen. Misdaad prima, geen vaccin; melaatse.
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A gentle wave of heat flows over the FOK! forum
Get woke, go broke!
Get woke, go broke!
Heb je ze dat gevraagd?quote:
[..]
En in het truckerstopic zagen een aantal usuals dat het goed was. Hoe kan en durf je hier achter te staan denk ik dan?
Groepsimmuniteit mag wel het resultaat zijn, maar niet het doel... - Vallon
Jazeker, in het eerste topic. Ze bleven doorgaan met steun aan Trudeau posten, en dat doen ze nu nog steedsquote:
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A gentle wave of heat flows over the FOK! forum
Get woke, go broke!
Get woke, go broke!
Ik heb begrepen dat het niet de bedoeling is dat andere landen zich bemoeien met de interne aangelegenheid van een soeverein land.quote:
[..]
Zijn er al EU leiders opgestaan tegen dit verhaal!?
Groepsimmuniteit mag wel het resultaat zijn, maar niet het doel... - Vallon
Aha.quote:Op maandag 21 februari 2022 19:24 schreef HeatWave het volgende:
[..]
Jazeker, in het eerste topic. Ze bleven doorgaan met steun aan Trudeau posten, en dat doen ze nu nog steeds
Maar wat was hun motivatie om dat goed te keuren?
Groepsimmuniteit mag wel het resultaat zijn, maar niet het doel... - Vallon
Zoals Trudeau wel tegen India deed?quote:Op maandag 21 februari 2022 19:25 schreef Wantie het volgende:
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Ik heb begrepen dat het niet de bedoeling is dat andere landen zich bemoeien met de interne aangelegenheid van een soeverein land.
A gentle wave of heat flows over the FOK! forum
Get woke, go broke!
Get woke, go broke!
