VER De Vergaarbak
Forum waar topics die elders geen plek hebben toch een kans kunnen krijgen. De onderwerpen kunnen divers zijn, maar ontopic en normaal reageren is ook hier de norm.
Nou dat is het nou juist:quote:Op zaterdag 11 september 2021 09:28 schreef Isdatzo het volgende:
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Dat is nogal een uitspraak hè. Dit vraagt om een bierviltjes-berekening.
We weten dat 0.2-0.5% van de (relatief) jonge en gezonde mensen in het ziekenhuis belandt na een corona-infectie. Hoeveel jonger en gezonder had Nederland moeten zijn om bij ongecontroleerde verspreiding niet tegen gigantische problemen aan te lopen?
Zeg onder de 40 en bmi onder de 25. Wat raakt daarvan in het zkh?
Vakman pur sang
Oh, jee nu ga je aangevallen worden op je opleiding....quote:
In 1
2
3
Do not go gentle into that good night
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Tuurlijk, en valt het je op dat er geen enkel inhoudelijk argument wordt gegeven?quote:Op zaterdag 11 september 2021 09:38 schreef devlinmr het volgende:
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Oh, jee nu ga je aangevallen worden op je opleiding....
In 1
2
3
Die cijfers heb ik je zojuist gegeven.quote:
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Nou dat is het nou juist:
Zeg onder de 40 en bmi onder de 25. Wat raakt daarvan in het zkh?
Huilen dan.
van een genormaliseerde onderzoekspopulatie of enkel hierop?quote:
[..]
Nou dat is het nou juist:
Zeg onder de 40 en bmi onder de 25. Wat raakt daarvan in het zkh?
Zo werkt dat hier. Erg humoristischquote:Op zaterdag 11 september 2021 09:39 schreef Jan_Onderwater het volgende:
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Tuurlijk, en valt het je op dat er geen enkel inhoudelijk argument wordt gegeven?
Do not go gentle into that good night
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Economie Master.quote:
[..]
Cognitiewetenschappen
En jij?
"Het enkele feit dat de gewasbeschermingsmiddelen zijn toegelaten, geeft in ieder geval geen garantie op het ontbreken van met name een uitgesteld schadelijk effect op de gezondheid van mensen."
let wel, dit is de man die beweert over de afgelopen anderhalf jaar iedere dag gemiddeld 32 unieke personen trof en daarmee sprak over corona, even afgezien van de mensen die hij vaker dan 1 keer sprakquote:
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Die cijfers heb ik je zojuist gegeven.
Ach kom dat had ik al gedaan. Kom uit je slachtoffer rol.quote:
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Tuurlijk, en valt het je op dat er geen enkel inhoudelijk argument wordt gegeven?
Voor de vaccinaties gezet werden waren er ook al IC opnames.
"Het enkele feit dat de gewasbeschermingsmiddelen zijn toegelaten, geeft in ieder geval geen garantie op het ontbreken van met name een uitgesteld schadelijk effect op de gezondheid van mensen."
Ja, en wat is je punt?quote:
Voor de vaccinaties gezet werden waren er ook al IC opnames.
Dat je verhaal niet causaal verband BMI nogal zwak wordt en zeker niet wordt weerlegd door je vaccinatie verhaaltje. Dat verhaal ontkracht dat verband helemaal niet.quote:
"Het enkele feit dat de gewasbeschermingsmiddelen zijn toegelaten, geeft in ieder geval geen garantie op het ontbreken van met name een uitgesteld schadelijk effect op de gezondheid van mensen."
Kan je uitleggen waar je nu precies tegen ageert en wat je bedoeld?quote:
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Dat je verhaal niet causaal verband BMI nogal zwak wordt en zeker niet wordt weerlegd door je vaccinatie verhaaltje. Dat verhaal ontkracht dat verband helemaal niet.
Je stelt dat BMI niet oorzakelijk is. Want BMI correleert ook met minder vaccinatie.quote:
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Kan je uitleggen waar je nu precies tegen ageert en wat je bedoeld?
Maar minder vaccinatie kan je praktisch uitschakelen door naar het pre vaccinatie periode te kijken.
Wetenschap, allemaal leuk hoor, maar laten we eens realistisch blijven.
"Het enkele feit dat de gewasbeschermingsmiddelen zijn toegelaten, geeft in ieder geval geen garantie op het ontbreken van met name een uitgesteld schadelijk effect op de gezondheid van mensen."
Euh, nee, dat zeg ik niet, ik zeg dat het correleert met een lager opleidingsniveau. Mensen die lager opgeleid zijn overlijden bv ook veel vaker aan kanker.quote:
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Je stelt dat BMI niet oorzakelijk is. Want BMI correleert ook met minder vaccinatie.
Maar minder vaccinatie kan je praktisch uitschakelen door naar het pre vaccinatie periode te kijken.
Ja algehele gezondheid zal minder zijn, BMI zal ook correleren met fysieke gezondheid en opleidingsniveau en alle proxies voor welvaart. Niks nieuws.quote:
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Euh, nee, dat zeg ik niet, ik zeg dat het correleert met een lager opleidingsniveau. Mensen die lager opgeleid zijn overlijden bv ook veel vaker aan kanker.
Maar BMI is nogal een verklarende variabele voor risico. Anyhow.
"Het enkele feit dat de gewasbeschermingsmiddelen zijn toegelaten, geeft in ieder geval geen garantie op het ontbreken van met name een uitgesteld schadelijk effect op de gezondheid van mensen."
Dus nu geef je me gelijk, dank jequote:
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Ja algehele gezondheid zal minder zijn, BMI zal ook correleren met fysieke gezondheid en opleidingsniveau en alle proxies voor welvaart. Niks nieuws.
Je doet alsof je nuanceert ofzo je lijkt te bagatelliseren hoeveel BMI invloed heeft op uiteindelijk risico voor zware covid.quote:
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Dus nu geef je me gelijk, dank je
"Het enkele feit dat de gewasbeschermingsmiddelen zijn toegelaten, geeft in ieder geval geen garantie op het ontbreken van met name een uitgesteld schadelijk effect op de gezondheid van mensen."
Hamburgers en Criminaliteit.quote:
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Je doet alsof je nuanceert ofzo je lijkt te bagatelliseren hoeveel BMI invloed heeft op uiteindelijk risico voor zware covid.
Hoho ik zit in een mt van een bedrijf met 1000+ medewerkers en natuurlijk de behorende leveranciers en klanten en daarvan heb ik gehoord van 100en al dan niet duizenden dat die positief getest waren in de loop van de pandemie, indirect ofwel direct omdat ik ook alle ziektemeldingen langs zie komen. Daarvan is exact 0 in het zkh beland. Dat zegt statistisch niets maar was slechts mijn ervaring.quote:
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let wel, dit is de man die beweert over de afgelopen anderhalf jaar iedere dag gemiddeld 32 unieke personen trof en daarmee sprak over corona, even afgezien van de mensen die hij vaker dan 1 keer sprak
Ohnee 1 heeft nog ff ad beademing gezeten. Van een leverancier.
Vakman pur sang
Dat jij daarvan maakt dat ik ze direct persoonlijk spreek is jouw verdraaiing. Trouwens spreek ik wel erg veel verschillende mensen op een dag. Dat kennen autistische onderzoekers nooit zo, die zitten liever in een hoekje in een lab.
Vakman pur sang
Jouw woordenquote:
Dat jij daarvan maakt dat ik ze direct persoonlijk spreek is jouw verdraaiing. Trouwens spreek ik wel erg veel verschillende mensen op een dag. Dat kennen autistische onderzoekers nooit zo, die zitten liever in een hoekje in een lab.
quote:Ik ken 100en zo niet duizenden mensen die Corona gehad hebben. Zoals al mijn collega’s van n niemand had er echt last van.
Heb ook een oudere dikkere buurman die moest naar de IC.
Maar wat iedeeen ook meemaakt het gaat om de statistieken, als je echt jong en gezond bent, zoek het op en je bent beschermd voor het leven.
Niet leuk voor de mensen die diehard believers zijn in d narco industrie.
quote:
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Ja ik ken veel mensen en via via nog meer mensen zoals 300 collega’s en daarvan weer op onderaannemers, vrienden, kennissen, de aannemer die mijn huis doet met al zijn onderaannemers. Je praat weleens met mensen niet?
Fauci krijgt een vraag over immuniteit na infectie en weet er niet heel veel van af. Hij vraagt af hoe het zit met "durability". We weten dat ze nu in Israel om de 6 maanden boosters willen geven omdat de vaccins niet heel erg durable zijn. En bij immuniteit na infectie is het zelfs mogelijk dat je langdurige immuniteit hebt.
Langdurige immuniteit?
Had COVID? You'll probably make antibodies for a lifetime
People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9
Langdurige immuniteit?
Had COVID? You'll probably make antibodies for a lifetime
People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9
"An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."
Ik had even niet in de gaten dat die nonsens nog steeds relevant was.
Have I missed out on something?
Have I missed out on something?
Er is nog onvoldoende onderzoek en consensus over, dat klopt.quote:
Fauci krijgt een vraag over immuniteit na infectie en weet er niet heel veel van af. Hij vraagt af hoe het zit met "durability". We weten dat ze nu in Israel om de 6 maanden boosters willen geven omdat de vaccins niet heel erg durable zijn. En bij immuniteit na infectie is het zelfs mogelijk dat je langdurige immuniteit hebt.
Langdurige immuniteit?
Had COVID? You'll probably make antibodies for a lifetime
People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9
Ik zag wel veelbelovende studies over immuniteit na infectie en “slapende cellen” die jaren blijven werken.
Maar goed consensus eerst dus dat horen we over minstens 6 maanden.
Vakman pur sang
tot zover de goed onderzochte vaccins. wat zou er volgende maand weer naar buiten komen wat niet voorzien was?
Plaats hier uw advertentie
Dit is hoe simpel het is:
"An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."
ISRAELI STUDY: Fully Vaxxed Are 27 Times More Likely To Get COVID Compared To People With Natural Immunity
Fully vaccinated are 27 times more likely to get the virus, and 8 times more likely to require hospitalization, compared to those with natural immunity
A new study out of Israel, pending peer review, has found that “fully vaccinated” people are 27 times more likely to get infected with COVID-19, develop symptoms, and 8 times more likely to experience hospitalization than unvaccinated people with natural immunity.
A new study from Israel, one of the most vaccinated countries in the world, claims that “fully vaccinated” people are significantly more likely to get infected with COVID-19 and develop symptoms requiring hospitalization than those who are unvaccinated and have the natural immunity that comes from catching the virus and recovering.
The study, Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections, examined medical records of tens of thousands of people between the dates of June 1 and August 14 and is currently the largest real-world observational study to date on coronavirus immunity with respects to both vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
The study found that “fully vaccinated” people are 27 times more likely to be infected and develop COVID-19 symptoms than unvaccinated people with natural immunity. The study also found that “fully vaccinated” people are 8 times more likely to be hospitalized from a “breakthrough” infection.
“It’s a textbook example of how natural immunity is really better than vaccination,” said Charlotte Thålin, a physician and immunology researcher at Danderyd Hospital and the Karolinska Institute. “To my knowledge, it’s the first time [this] has really been shown in the context of COVID-19.”
Gaat verder:
https://nationalfile.com/(...)th-natural-immunity/
Fully vaccinated are 27 times more likely to get the virus, and 8 times more likely to require hospitalization, compared to those with natural immunity
A new study out of Israel, pending peer review, has found that “fully vaccinated” people are 27 times more likely to get infected with COVID-19, develop symptoms, and 8 times more likely to experience hospitalization than unvaccinated people with natural immunity.
A new study from Israel, one of the most vaccinated countries in the world, claims that “fully vaccinated” people are significantly more likely to get infected with COVID-19 and develop symptoms requiring hospitalization than those who are unvaccinated and have the natural immunity that comes from catching the virus and recovering.
The study, Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections, examined medical records of tens of thousands of people between the dates of June 1 and August 14 and is currently the largest real-world observational study to date on coronavirus immunity with respects to both vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
The study found that “fully vaccinated” people are 27 times more likely to be infected and develop COVID-19 symptoms than unvaccinated people with natural immunity. The study also found that “fully vaccinated” people are 8 times more likely to be hospitalized from a “breakthrough” infection.
“It’s a textbook example of how natural immunity is really better than vaccination,” said Charlotte Thålin, a physician and immunology researcher at Danderyd Hospital and the Karolinska Institute. “To my knowledge, it’s the first time [this] has really been shown in the context of COVID-19.”
Gaat verder:
https://nationalfile.com/(...)th-natural-immunity/
"An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."
Als je de risico's op overlijden, long covid, code zwart in de ziekenhuizen etc voor lief neemt, tja t is een optie denk ik.quote:
Dit is hoe simpel het is:
[ twitter ]
Wat zijn de lange termijn effecten van vaccinatie door covid?
Do not go gentle into that good night
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Haha ik heb al covid gehadquote:
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Als je de risico's op overlijden, long covid, code zwart in de ziekenhuizen etc voor lief neemt, tja t is een optie denk ik.
Wat zijn de lange termijn effecten van vaccinatie door covid?
Vakman pur sang
Wacht maar op de lange termijn effectenquote:
Do not go gentle into that good night
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
En een vaccin.quote:
[..]
Wacht maar op de lange termijn effecten
Vakman pur sang
Spaaar ze allemaal. Tiefus, turberculose, influenza en covid, bij een volle kaart ontvangt u niet 1 maar zelfs 2 handdoekensets van wollig pluche.
Vakman pur sang
Oh jee, dan ga je 100% zeker stervenquote:
Do not go gentle into that good night
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Dat denk ik uiteindelijk wel.quote:
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Oh jee, dan ga je 100% zeker sterven
Vakman pur sang
Kut manquote:
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Dat denk ik uiteindelijk wel.
Do not go gentle into that good night
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Ernst van opnames lijkt in bijna helft van de gevallen erg mee te vallen:
Our Most Reliable Pandemic Number Is Losing Meaning
A new study suggests that almost half of those hospitalized with COVID-19 have mild or asymptomatic cases.
At least 12,000 Americans have already died from COVID-19 this month, as the country inches through its latest surge in cases. But another worrying statistic is often cited to depict the dangers of this moment: The number of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 in the United States right now is as high as it has been since the beginning of February. It’s even worse in certain places: Some states, including Arkansas and Oregon, recently saw their COVID hospitalizations rise to higher levels than at any prior stage of the pandemic. But how much do those latter figures really tell us?
From the start, COVID hospitalizations have served as a vital metric for tracking the risks posed by the disease. Last winter, this magazine described it as “the most reliable pandemic number,” while Vox quoted the cardiologist Eric Topol as saying that it’s “the best indicator of where we are.” On the one hand, death counts offer finality, but they’re a lagging signal and don’t account for people who suffered from significant illness but survived.
Case counts, on the other hand, depend on which and how many people happen to get tested. Presumably, hospitalization numbers provide a more stable and reliable gauge of the pandemic’s true toll, in terms of severe disease. But a new, nationwide study of hospitalization records, released as a preprint today (and not yet formally peer reviewed), suggests that the meaning of this gauge can easily be misinterpreted—and that it has been shifting over time.
If you want to make sense of the number of COVID hospitalizations at any given time, you need to know how sick each patient actually is. Until now, that’s been almost impossible to suss out. The federal government requires hospitals to report every patient who tests positive for COVID, yet the overall tallies of COVID hospitalizations, made available on various state and federal dashboards and widely reported on by the media, do not differentiate based on severity of illness.
Some patients need extensive medical intervention, such as getting intubated. Others require supplemental oxygen or administration of the steroid dexamethasone. But there are many COVID patients in the hospital with fairly mild symptoms, too, who have been admitted for further observation on account of their comorbidities, or because they reported feeling short of breath. Another portion of the patients in this tally are in the hospital for something unrelated to COVID, and discovered that they were infected only because they were tested upon admission. How many patients fall into each category has been a topic of much speculation. In August, researchers from Harvard Medical School, Tufts Medical Center, and the Veterans Affairs Healthcare System decided to find out.
Gaat verder:
https://www.theatlantic.c(...)e-misleading/620062/
Our Most Reliable Pandemic Number Is Losing Meaning
A new study suggests that almost half of those hospitalized with COVID-19 have mild or asymptomatic cases.
At least 12,000 Americans have already died from COVID-19 this month, as the country inches through its latest surge in cases. But another worrying statistic is often cited to depict the dangers of this moment: The number of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 in the United States right now is as high as it has been since the beginning of February. It’s even worse in certain places: Some states, including Arkansas and Oregon, recently saw their COVID hospitalizations rise to higher levels than at any prior stage of the pandemic. But how much do those latter figures really tell us?
From the start, COVID hospitalizations have served as a vital metric for tracking the risks posed by the disease. Last winter, this magazine described it as “the most reliable pandemic number,” while Vox quoted the cardiologist Eric Topol as saying that it’s “the best indicator of where we are.” On the one hand, death counts offer finality, but they’re a lagging signal and don’t account for people who suffered from significant illness but survived.
Case counts, on the other hand, depend on which and how many people happen to get tested. Presumably, hospitalization numbers provide a more stable and reliable gauge of the pandemic’s true toll, in terms of severe disease. But a new, nationwide study of hospitalization records, released as a preprint today (and not yet formally peer reviewed), suggests that the meaning of this gauge can easily be misinterpreted—and that it has been shifting over time.
If you want to make sense of the number of COVID hospitalizations at any given time, you need to know how sick each patient actually is. Until now, that’s been almost impossible to suss out. The federal government requires hospitals to report every patient who tests positive for COVID, yet the overall tallies of COVID hospitalizations, made available on various state and federal dashboards and widely reported on by the media, do not differentiate based on severity of illness.
Some patients need extensive medical intervention, such as getting intubated. Others require supplemental oxygen or administration of the steroid dexamethasone. But there are many COVID patients in the hospital with fairly mild symptoms, too, who have been admitted for further observation on account of their comorbidities, or because they reported feeling short of breath. Another portion of the patients in this tally are in the hospital for something unrelated to COVID, and discovered that they were infected only because they were tested upon admission. How many patients fall into each category has been a topic of much speculation. In August, researchers from Harvard Medical School, Tufts Medical Center, and the Veterans Affairs Healthcare System decided to find out.
Gaat verder:
https://www.theatlantic.c(...)e-misleading/620062/
"An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."
Klinkt anders wel kinky... Leuke zuster erbijquote:
[..]
Nee joh, als ik een pamper aan moet dan mag het licht uit.
Do not go gentle into that good night
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
quote:
[..]
Klinkt anders wel kinky... Leuke zuster erbij
Vakman pur sang
Natural immunity to covid is powerful. Policymakers seem afraid to say so.
People making decisions about their health deserve honesty from their leaders.
It’s okay to have an incorrect scientific hypothesis. But when new data proves it wrong, you have to adapt. Unfortunately, many elected leaders and public health officials have held on far too long to the hypothesis that natural immunity offers unreliable protection against covid-19 — a contention that is being rapidly debunked by science.
More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated. This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.” And in May, a Washington University study found that even a mild covid infection resulted in long-lasting immunity.
So, the emerging science suggests that natural immunity is as good as or better than vaccine-induced immunity. That’s why it’s so frustrating that the Biden administration has repeatedly argued that immunity conferred by vaccines is preferable to immunity caused by natural infection, as NIH director Francis Collins told Fox News host told Bret Baier a few weeks ago. That rigid adherence to an outdated theory is also reflected in President Biden’s recent announcement that large companies must require their employees to get vaccinated or submit to regular testing, regardless of whether they previously had the virus.
Downplaying the power of natural immunity has had deadly consequences. In January, February and March, we wasted scarce vaccine doses on millions of people who previously had covid. If we had asked Americans who were already protected by natural immunity to step aside in the vaccine line, tens of thousands of lives could have been saved. This is not just in hindsight is 20/20; many of us were vehemently arguing and writing at the time for such a rationing strategy.
One reason public health officials may be afraid to acknowledge the effectiveness of natural immunity is that they fear it will lead some to choose getting the infection over vaccination. That’s a legitimate concern. But we can encourage all Americans to get vaccinated while still being honest about the data. In my clinical experience, I have found patients to be extremely forgiving with evolving data if you are honest and transparent with them. Yet, when asked the common question, “I’ve recovered from covid, is it absolutely essential that I get vaccinated?” many public health officials have put aside the data and responded with a synchronized “yes,” even as studies have shown that reinfections are rare and often asymptomatic or mild when they do occur.
The tide may finally be shifting, as pressure has grown on federal officials. Last week on CNN, Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease specialist, hinted that the government may be rethinking its stance on natural immunity, saying, “I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously.” Some large medical centers, like Spectrum Health in Grand Rapids, Mich., have already announced they will recognize natural immunity for their vaccine requirements. Some Republican governors have picked up on public frustration over how the scientific guidance is inconsistent with the data, with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis accusing the Biden administration of “not following science” by crafting its vaccine mandate without taking into consideration “infection-conferred immunity.”
Gaat verder:
https://www.washingtonpos(...)ity-vaccine-mandate/
People making decisions about their health deserve honesty from their leaders.
It’s okay to have an incorrect scientific hypothesis. But when new data proves it wrong, you have to adapt. Unfortunately, many elected leaders and public health officials have held on far too long to the hypothesis that natural immunity offers unreliable protection against covid-19 — a contention that is being rapidly debunked by science.
More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated. This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.” And in May, a Washington University study found that even a mild covid infection resulted in long-lasting immunity.
So, the emerging science suggests that natural immunity is as good as or better than vaccine-induced immunity. That’s why it’s so frustrating that the Biden administration has repeatedly argued that immunity conferred by vaccines is preferable to immunity caused by natural infection, as NIH director Francis Collins told Fox News host told Bret Baier a few weeks ago. That rigid adherence to an outdated theory is also reflected in President Biden’s recent announcement that large companies must require their employees to get vaccinated or submit to regular testing, regardless of whether they previously had the virus.
Downplaying the power of natural immunity has had deadly consequences. In January, February and March, we wasted scarce vaccine doses on millions of people who previously had covid. If we had asked Americans who were already protected by natural immunity to step aside in the vaccine line, tens of thousands of lives could have been saved. This is not just in hindsight is 20/20; many of us were vehemently arguing and writing at the time for such a rationing strategy.
One reason public health officials may be afraid to acknowledge the effectiveness of natural immunity is that they fear it will lead some to choose getting the infection over vaccination. That’s a legitimate concern. But we can encourage all Americans to get vaccinated while still being honest about the data. In my clinical experience, I have found patients to be extremely forgiving with evolving data if you are honest and transparent with them. Yet, when asked the common question, “I’ve recovered from covid, is it absolutely essential that I get vaccinated?” many public health officials have put aside the data and responded with a synchronized “yes,” even as studies have shown that reinfections are rare and often asymptomatic or mild when they do occur.
The tide may finally be shifting, as pressure has grown on federal officials. Last week on CNN, Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease specialist, hinted that the government may be rethinking its stance on natural immunity, saying, “I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously.” Some large medical centers, like Spectrum Health in Grand Rapids, Mich., have already announced they will recognize natural immunity for their vaccine requirements. Some Republican governors have picked up on public frustration over how the scientific guidance is inconsistent with the data, with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis accusing the Biden administration of “not following science” by crafting its vaccine mandate without taking into consideration “infection-conferred immunity.”
Gaat verder:
https://www.washingtonpos(...)ity-vaccine-mandate/
"An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."
Is a natural Covid infection really 13 times better than being vaccinated?
The study performed during the recent Delta outbreak in Israel demonstrates natural immunity to Covid. Here is the study. The study investigators did a retrospective observational study comparing three different groups. Now it's important to note that the authors of the study had no financial disclosures and there was no commercial funding.
The study is in pre-print and it's not peer-reviewed. The first group had never been infected with SARS Cov2 and they received two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. The second group was previously infected individuals who had not been vaccinated and the third group was previously infected people who received a single dose of the Pfizer vaccine.
The study looked at 2.5 million people in the Member Health fund in Israel and this covers 26% of their population and provides quite a representative sample. The study population included people older than age 16 who were vaccinated before February 28, 2021, or who had had a documented SARS Cov2 infection by this state or who had both the documented infection and then received one dose of the vaccine three months later.
Of interest on March 2nd, 2021 the Israeli Ministry of Health changed its guidelines to allow previously infected SARS Cov2 people to receive one dose of the vaccine after a minimum 3-month interval from the date of infection. They followed all of these three groups from June the 1st, to August 14, 2021, when Delta was the predominant strain in Israel. Here are their study results.
Gaat verder:
https://www.thecomprehens(...)inated-immunity.html
The study performed during the recent Delta outbreak in Israel demonstrates natural immunity to Covid. Here is the study. The study investigators did a retrospective observational study comparing three different groups. Now it's important to note that the authors of the study had no financial disclosures and there was no commercial funding.
The study is in pre-print and it's not peer-reviewed. The first group had never been infected with SARS Cov2 and they received two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. The second group was previously infected individuals who had not been vaccinated and the third group was previously infected people who received a single dose of the Pfizer vaccine.
The study looked at 2.5 million people in the Member Health fund in Israel and this covers 26% of their population and provides quite a representative sample. The study population included people older than age 16 who were vaccinated before February 28, 2021, or who had had a documented SARS Cov2 infection by this state or who had both the documented infection and then received one dose of the vaccine three months later.
Of interest on March 2nd, 2021 the Israeli Ministry of Health changed its guidelines to allow previously infected SARS Cov2 people to receive one dose of the vaccine after a minimum 3-month interval from the date of infection. They followed all of these three groups from June the 1st, to August 14, 2021, when Delta was the predominant strain in Israel. Here are their study results.
Gaat verder:
https://www.thecomprehens(...)inated-immunity.html
"An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."
Of toch niet
https://www.nebraskamed.c(...)y-versus-vaccination
COVID-19 natural immunity versus vaccination
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BreadcrumbHome Coronavirus (COVID-19) COVID-19 natural immunity versus vaccination
Published September 20, 2021
COVID-19 studies: natural immunity versus vaccination
If you've had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?
The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.
More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination
The takeaway: Get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID-19. Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.
"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting."
A third of infections don't get any protective antibodies
Some people who get COVID-19 receive no protection from reinfection – their natural immunity is nonexistent. A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The people had different levels of illness – most had moderate disease, but some were asymptomatic and some experienced severe COVID-19.
"Vaccine-induced immunity is more predictable than natural immunity," says Dr. Rupp. The COVID-19 vaccines provide great protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death.
Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months.
Studies are ongoing to evaluate the full duration of protective immunity, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
Real-world studies also indicate natural immunity's short life. For example, 65% of people with a lower baseline antibody from infection to begin with completely lost their COVID-19 antibodies by 60 days.
What about that Israeli study suggesting natural immunity is stronger? Infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH, FIDSA, carefully evaluates the study design of the retrospective Maccabi Health System study in his Aug. 31 briefing. In the briefing, he identifies two concerning sources of error that were not corrected for: survivorship bias and selection bias.
Natural immunity alone is weak
One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone.
"Studies show that the vaccine gives a very good booster response if you've had COVID-19 before," says Dr. Rupp.
Furthermore, there is no country on the globe in which natural infection and natural immunity has brought the pandemic under control. In countries like Iran or Brazil very high levels of natural infection have not prevented recurrent waves of infection.
How soon after COVID-19 to get vaccinated
How soon is too soon to get vaccinated after you're sick with COVID-19? If you're no longer sick and out of isolation, you should get vaccinated.
We recommend that people with post-COVID syndrome (long haulers) should get the vaccine as well. There are some reports of people with post-COVID syndrome experiencing marked improvement in symptoms following vaccination.
Are vaccine adverse reactions more common after infection?
Those with prior infection tend to have more systemic (and short-lived) side effects after vaccination. One study shows that the likelihood of fatigue, headache, chills and other systemic side effects increases for people who have had COVID-19 infection in the past. These side effects show that the vaccine is working and resolve in a day or two days.
There's nothing to suggest that people who have had COVID-19 before are at greater risk for more serious adverse events. Serious adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination remain extraordinarily rare. You are much, much more likely to have an adverse reaction to COVID-19 (the disease) like hospitalization or death than you are from any of the COVID-19 vaccines.
Schedule your COVID-19 vaccine
The Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine recently received full FDA approval. Get vaccinated today.
Related stories:
Vaccines Work Infographic
[INFOGRAPHICS] Vaccines prevent COVID-19 hospitalizations
Even though the delta variant is much more contagious than previous variants, the COVID-19 vaccines are preventing hospitalizations and death.
Read More
https://www.nebraskamed.c(...)y-versus-vaccination
COVID-19 natural immunity versus vaccination
twitterfacebook
BreadcrumbHome Coronavirus (COVID-19) COVID-19 natural immunity versus vaccination
Published September 20, 2021
COVID-19 studies: natural immunity versus vaccination
If you've had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?
The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.
More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination
The takeaway: Get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID-19. Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.
"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting."
A third of infections don't get any protective antibodies
Some people who get COVID-19 receive no protection from reinfection – their natural immunity is nonexistent. A recent study found that 36% of COVID-19 cases didn't result in development of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The people had different levels of illness – most had moderate disease, but some were asymptomatic and some experienced severe COVID-19.
"Vaccine-induced immunity is more predictable than natural immunity," says Dr. Rupp. The COVID-19 vaccines provide great protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death.
Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months.
Studies are ongoing to evaluate the full duration of protective immunity, including the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
Real-world studies also indicate natural immunity's short life. For example, 65% of people with a lower baseline antibody from infection to begin with completely lost their COVID-19 antibodies by 60 days.
What about that Israeli study suggesting natural immunity is stronger? Infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH, FIDSA, carefully evaluates the study design of the retrospective Maccabi Health System study in his Aug. 31 briefing. In the briefing, he identifies two concerning sources of error that were not corrected for: survivorship bias and selection bias.
Natural immunity alone is weak
One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone.
"Studies show that the vaccine gives a very good booster response if you've had COVID-19 before," says Dr. Rupp.
Furthermore, there is no country on the globe in which natural infection and natural immunity has brought the pandemic under control. In countries like Iran or Brazil very high levels of natural infection have not prevented recurrent waves of infection.
How soon after COVID-19 to get vaccinated
How soon is too soon to get vaccinated after you're sick with COVID-19? If you're no longer sick and out of isolation, you should get vaccinated.
We recommend that people with post-COVID syndrome (long haulers) should get the vaccine as well. There are some reports of people with post-COVID syndrome experiencing marked improvement in symptoms following vaccination.
Are vaccine adverse reactions more common after infection?
Those with prior infection tend to have more systemic (and short-lived) side effects after vaccination. One study shows that the likelihood of fatigue, headache, chills and other systemic side effects increases for people who have had COVID-19 infection in the past. These side effects show that the vaccine is working and resolve in a day or two days.
There's nothing to suggest that people who have had COVID-19 before are at greater risk for more serious adverse events. Serious adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination remain extraordinarily rare. You are much, much more likely to have an adverse reaction to COVID-19 (the disease) like hospitalization or death than you are from any of the COVID-19 vaccines.
Schedule your COVID-19 vaccine
The Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine recently received full FDA approval. Get vaccinated today.
Related stories:
Vaccines Work Infographic
[INFOGRAPHICS] Vaccines prevent COVID-19 hospitalizations
Even though the delta variant is much more contagious than previous variants, the COVID-19 vaccines are preventing hospitalizations and death.
Read More
Do not go gentle into that good night
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Natural immunity emerges as potential legal challenge to federal COVID-19 vaccination mandates
The argument that natural immunity against COVID-19 is an alternative to vaccination is emerging as a potential legal challenge to federally mandated vaccination policies.
Vaccination is already required for certain workers and some college students. The federal government, despite steeper legal hurdles to imposing vaccination, has also invoked the U.S. Department of Labor to mandate inoculation for health care workers and is expected to roll out a larger policy effectively mandating vaccination for a majority of U.S. workers.
The stated goal behind mandatory vaccination policies is to protect against the spread of disease, meaning that the crux of any policy is immunity. The notion that a previous COVID-19 infection provides natural immunity that can be at least as good as vaccination in some people is something a judge would likely need to consider in a challenge to a mandatory policy, especially against a government actor.
“I think that a judge might reject a rule that's been issued by a body, like the U.S. Department of Labor or by a state, that has not been sufficiently thought through as it relates to the science,” Erik Eisenmann, a labor and employment attorney with Husch Blackwell, told Yahoo Finance.
Gaat verder:
https://finance.yahoo.com(...)ation-123106323.html
The argument that natural immunity against COVID-19 is an alternative to vaccination is emerging as a potential legal challenge to federally mandated vaccination policies.
Vaccination is already required for certain workers and some college students. The federal government, despite steeper legal hurdles to imposing vaccination, has also invoked the U.S. Department of Labor to mandate inoculation for health care workers and is expected to roll out a larger policy effectively mandating vaccination for a majority of U.S. workers.
The stated goal behind mandatory vaccination policies is to protect against the spread of disease, meaning that the crux of any policy is immunity. The notion that a previous COVID-19 infection provides natural immunity that can be at least as good as vaccination in some people is something a judge would likely need to consider in a challenge to a mandatory policy, especially against a government actor.
“I think that a judge might reject a rule that's been issued by a body, like the U.S. Department of Labor or by a state, that has not been sufficiently thought through as it relates to the science,” Erik Eisenmann, a labor and employment attorney with Husch Blackwell, told Yahoo Finance.
Gaat verder:
https://finance.yahoo.com(...)ation-123106323.html
"An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."
En hoe wil jij dan die natuurlijke immuniteit gaan uitvoeren? Je kan wel een zooitje vooral Engelstalige artikelen posten maar dit gaat het niet worden als je logisch nadenkt. En lees het commentaar eens bij deze tweet. En denk dan eens na over hoe simpel de tweet inderdaad is.quote:
Dit is hoe simpel het is:
[ twitter ]
[ Bericht 9% gewijzigd door Megumi op 30-09-2021 09:31:55 ]
Wordt als iemand die voortdurend dood is. De ware volgeling van bushidõ sterft elke ochtend en avond opnieuw. En wordt niet gehinderd door angst voor de dood. Yamamoto Tsunetomo's hagakure.
Gewoon het virus laten woeden en alle mensen die doodgaan of langdurig ziek worden afdoen als fatties, mensen die sowieso zouden creperen en wegkijken schat ik, en de totale overbelasting van de zorg gewoon ontkennen, de achterstand bij het vaststellen van diagnosen en de oversterfte daardoor ook.quote:
[..]
En hoe wil jij dan die natuurlijke immuniteit gaan uitvoeren? Je kan wel een zooitje vooral Engelstalige artikelen posten maar dit gaat het niet worden als je logisch nadenkt.
Kortom, vingers in de oren en heeeeel hard lalalalalaa roepen
Ook terwijl jij dus zelf ook een van die mensen kan zijn die dood gaan? En hoe ga jij al die lijken opruimen en dergelijke? Dit soort plannen horen in het rijk van gestoorde plannen. En gaan niet gebeuren in een modern westers land.quote:
[..]
Gewoon het virus laten woeden
En dat weet @Probably_on_pcp zelf ook heel goed. Oproepen tot massamoord is tenslotte redelijk idioot.[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door Megumi op 30-09-2021 09:28:59 ]
Wordt als iemand die voortdurend dood is. De ware volgeling van bushidõ sterft elke ochtend en avond opnieuw. En wordt niet gehinderd door angst voor de dood. Yamamoto Tsunetomo's hagakure.
Nee, zelf wordt je natuurlijk noooooit getroffen, het zijn alleen maar hoogbejaarden en fatties waar je geen enkele Empathie aan kwijt hoeft.quote:
[..]
Ook terwijl jij dus zelf ook een van die mensen kan zijn die dood gaan? En hoe ga jij al die lijken opruimen en dergelijke? Dit soort plannen horen in het rijk van gestoorde plannen. En gaan niet gebeuren in een modern westers land.
Dat het gestoord is, dat is duidelijk. probably_on_pcp, nomen est omen
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