BNW Brave New World
Samenzwering, verborgen agenda's en geheime geschiedenis. De zoektocht naar de wereld die achter de façade van alledag ligt.
En Monsanto reageert natuurlijk ondanks:
"There are a number of independent, published manuscripts that clearly indicate that glyphosate ... can promote cancer and tumor growth," said Dave Schubert, head of the cellular neurobiology laboratory at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California. "It should be banned."
http://www.reuters.com/ar(...)dUSKBN0MK2GF20150324
"There are a number of independent, published manuscripts that clearly indicate that glyphosate ... can promote cancer and tumor growth," said Dave Schubert, head of the cellular neurobiology laboratory at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California. "It should be banned."
http://www.reuters.com/ar(...)dUSKBN0MK2GF20150324
niet geschoten is ook niet verkeerd.
Waarom beantwoord je mijn vraag over gefrituurd voedsel niet? Het risico daarvan zit in dezelfde categorie, dus ik neem aan dat je daar even fel tegen bent?quote:Op woensdag 16 september 2015 14:27 schreef NightFlight het volgende:
En Monsanto reageert natuurlijk ondanks:
"There are a number of independent, published manuscripts that clearly indicate that glyphosate ... can promote cancer and tumor growth," said Dave Schubert, head of the cellular neurobiology laboratory at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California. "It should be banned."
http://www.reuters.com/ar(...)dUSKBN0MK2GF20150324
Egregious professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography
Onikaan ni ov dovah
Onikaan ni ov dovah
Vanzelfsprekend eet ik geen gefrituurd voedsel, maar ook geen chips en ontbijtkoek. Zo goed?quote:
[..]
Waarom beantwoord je mijn vraag over gefrituurd voedsel niet? Het risico daarvan zit in dezelfde categorie, dus ik neem aan dat je daar even fel tegen bent?
niet geschoten is ook niet verkeerd.
Dan je drink geen alcohol - klasse 1. Eet geen peertjes, bananen, en aardappels (en een hoop ander fruit) - zit formaldehyde in - klasse 1. Geen rijst - arsenic (klasse 1). Geen rood vlees, en zeker niet op de barbecue. Goed uit het zonlicht blijven (klasse 1).quote:
[..]
Vanzelfsprekend eet ik geen gefrituurd voedsel, maar ook geen chips en ontbijtkoek. Zo goed?
Over formaldehyde gesproken:
http://www.integrativesystems.org/systems-biology-of-gmos/
http://www.scirp.org/jour(...)D=57871#.VaQQsbX4fQR
Auw auw auw... wat doet dit een pijn... bij de GMO-lovers...
http://www.integrativesystems.org/systems-biology-of-gmos/
http://www.scirp.org/jour(...)D=57871#.VaQQsbX4fQR
Auw auw auw... wat doet dit een pijn... bij de GMO-lovers...
niet geschoten is ook niet verkeerd.
Dit is werkelijk zo'n waardeloze paper, daar hebben we het pagina's terug al over gehad. Die gast wil gewoon zijn software verkopen. Geen enkele meting.quote:
Over formaldehyde gesproken:
http://www.integrativesystems.org/systems-biology-of-gmos/
http://www.scirp.org/jour(...)D=57871#.VaQQsbX4fQR
Auw auw auw... wat doet dit een pijn... bij de GMO-lovers...
Jij valt daar natuurlijk gelijk voor, omdat het in je straatje past. Beetje kritischer zijn joh!
Dude, hier hebben we het al over gehad en echt de eerste kritische check die je bij elke bron zou moeten doen (wat voor iets is dit publicatiekanaal?) zou al meteen duidelijk hebben gemaakt dat dit een predatory journal is dat alleen bestaat om geld te verdienen aan artikelen die niet in gewone goede journals gepubliceerd kunnen worden.quote:
Over formaldehyde gesproken:
http://www.integrativesystems.org/systems-biology-of-gmos/
http://www.scirp.org/jour(...)D=57871#.VaQQsbX4fQR
Auw auw auw... wat doet dit een pijn... bij de GMO-lovers...
Post dan gewoon niets, het enige dat je hiermee aantoont is ten eerste dat je niet kritisch bent en ten tweede dat je de thread niet leest.
Op dinsdag 1 november 2016 00:05 schreef JanCees het volgende:
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
Je moet eens wat leren over skepticisme, en vooral, toepassen. Zou je goed doen.quote:
Over formaldehyde gesproken:
http://www.integrativesystems.org/systems-biology-of-gmos/
http://www.scirp.org/jour(...)D=57871#.VaQQsbX4fQR
Auw auw auw... wat doet dit een pijn... bij de GMO-lovers...
https://skeptoid.com/skeptic.php
"The scientific method is central to skepticism. The scientific method requires evidence, preferably derived from validated testing. Anecdotal evidence and personal testimonies generally don't meet the qualifications for scientific evidence, and thus won't often be accepted by a responsible skeptic; which often explains why skeptics get such a bad rap for being negative or disbelieving people. They're simply following the scientific method."
Dommie, check zelf effe de referenties dan:
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References
[1] Ayyadurai, V.A. and Dewey, C.F. (2011) CytoSolve: A Scalable Computational Method for Dynamic Integration of Multiple Molecular Pathway Models. Cellular and Molecular Bioengineering, 4, 28-45.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s12195-010-0143-x
[2] Kodama, T., et al. (2011) Qualitative PCR Method for Roundup Ready Soybean: Interlaboratory Study. Journal of AOAC International, 94, 224-231.
[3] Deonikar, P., et al. (2015) Discovery of Key Molecular Pathways of C1 Metabolism and Formaldehyde Detoxification in Maize through a Systematic Bioinformatics Literature Review. Agricultural Sciences, 6, 571-585.
http://dx.doi.org/10.4236/as.2015.65056
[4] Kothandaram, S., Deonikar, P., Mohan, M., Venugopal, V. and Ayyadurai, V.A.S. (2015) In Silico Modeling of C1 Metabolism. American Journal of Plant Sciences, 6, 1444-1465.
http://dx.doi.org/10.4236/ajps.2015.69144
[5] Mohan, M., Kothandaram, S., Deonikar, P., Venugopal, V. and Ayyadurai, V.A.S. (2015) Integrative Modeling of Oxidative Stress and C1 Metabolism Reveals Upregulation of Formaldehyde and Down Regulation of Glutathione. American Journal of Plant Sciences, 6, 1527-1542.
http://dx.doi.org/10.4236/ajps.2015.69152
[6] Arruda, S.C., Barbosa, H.S., Azevedo, R.A. and Arruda, M.A. (2013) Comparative Studies Focusing on Transgenic through cp4EPSPS Gene and Non-Transgenic Soybean Plants: An Analysis of Protein Species and Enzymes. Journal of Proteomics, 93, 107-116.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.jprot.2013.05.039
[7] Barbosa, H.S., Arruda, S.C., Azevedo, R.A. and Arruda, M.A. (2012) New Insights on Proteomics of Transgenic Soybean Seeds: Evaluation of Differential Expressions of Enzymes and Proteins. Analytical and Bioanalytical Chemistry, 402, 299-314.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s00216-011-5409-1
[8] Mataveli, L.R., Pohl, P., Mounicou, S., Arruda, M.A. and Szpunar, J. (2010) A Comparative Study of Element Concentrations and Binding in Transgenic and Non-Transgenic Soybean Seeds. Metallomics, 2, 800-805.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1039/c0mt00040j
[9] Sammons, R.D. and Gaines, T.A. (2014) Glyphosate Resistance: State of Knowledge. Pest Management Science, 70, 1367-1377.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/ps.3743
[10] Funke, T., Han, H., Healy-Fried, M.L., Fischer, M. and Schonbrunn, E. (2006) Molecular Basis for the Herbicide Resistance of Roundup Ready Crops. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 103, 13010-13015.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.0603638103
[11] Roberts, A.F. (2010) A Review of the Environmental Safety of the CP4 EPSPS Protein. Center for Environmental Risk Assessment, ILSI Research Foundation, Washington DC.
[12] Fernandez-Cornejo, J. (2014) Recent Trends in GE Adoption.
http://www.ers.usda.gov/d(...)-in-ge-adoption.aspx.
[13] de Vendomois, J.S., et al. (2010) Debate on GMOs Health Risks after Statistical Findings in Regulatory Tests. International Journal of Biological Sciences, 6, 590-598.
http://dx.doi.org/10.7150/ijbs.6.590
[14] Devos, Y., Sanvido, O., Tait, J. and Raybould, A. (2014) Towards a More Open Debate about Values in Decision-Making on Agricultural Biotechnology. Transgenic Research, 23, 933-943.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s11248-013-9754-z
[15] McHughen, A. (2013) GM Crops and Foods: What Do Consumers Want to Know? GM Crops & Food, 4, 172-182.
http://dx.doi.org/10.4161/gmcr.26532
[16] Ricroch, A.E. and Hénard-Damave, M.-C. (2015) Next Biotech Plants: New Traits, Crops, Developers and Technologies for Addressing Global Challenges. Critical Reviews in Biotechnology, 1-16.
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niet geschoten is ook niet verkeerd.
Deze kerel...
I am a Chinese college students, I have a loving father, but I can not help him, he needs to do heart bypass surgery, I can not help him, because the cost of 100,000 or so needed, please help me, lifelong You pray Thank you!
Je mist het punt Nightflight...
Egregious professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography
Onikaan ni ov dovah
Onikaan ni ov dovah
Yo homies, jullie moeten het uiteindelijk helemaal zelf weten maar ik vond het wel fijn dat deze reeks een stuk trager was, maar ook meer signaal tov ruis had in de posts als je hem las. Nightflight is een idioot die al heel lang duidelijk heeft gemaakt incapable of unwilling te zijn om iets te leren of zijn mening ergens over aan te passen. Misschien is het beter gewoon te stoppen met op hem reageren, in plaats van deze thread in de 101-ste BNW thread laten veranderen waar iemand koppig domme shit post paginas lang terwijl andere mensen roepen dat het dom is paginas lang.
Niet obnoxious / paternalistisch bedoeld
Niet obnoxious / paternalistisch bedoeld
Op dinsdag 1 november 2016 00:05 schreef JanCees het volgende:
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
Ik zeg prima plan.quote:
Yo homies, jullie moeten het uiteindelijk helemaal zelf weten maar ik vond het wel fijn dat deze reeks een stuk trager was, maar ook meer signaal tov ruis had in de posts als je hem las. Nightflight is een idioot die al heel lang duidelijk heeft gemaakt incapable of unwilling te zijn om iets te leren of zijn mening ergens over aan te passen. Misschien is het beter gewoon te stoppen met op hem reageren, in plaats van deze thread in de 101-ste BNW thread laten veranderen waar iemand koppig domme shit post paginas lang terwijl andere mensen roepen dat het dom is paginas lang.
Niet obnoxious / paternalistisch bedoeld
Egregious professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography
Onikaan ni ov dovah
Onikaan ni ov dovah
Dan vragen we het toch de IARC zelf??
Folta zit fout mbt zijn uitspraken over het verband tussen glyfosaat en kanker:
http://www.gmwatch.org/ne(...)-making-false-claims
We asked Prof Chris Portier, a co-author of the IARC report on glyphosate, for his response. He said:
“This quote is wrong. The IARC review process identifies hazards but does not quantify them. The comparison suggested by Dr Folta's quote does not exist. However, some comparisons are possible, such as the evidence that glyphosate is carcinogenic is stronger than for cell phones (group 2B) and not as strong as that for alcohol (group 1).”
Folta’s claim about caffeine appears to be false. I could find no IARC classification of caffeine, an ingredient of coffee, after 1991, when it concluded it was “not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans (Group 3)”. That means there was inadequate evidence for carcinogenicity.
Caffeic acid, which is present in coffee in minute amounts, is classified by IARC as a “possible” carcinogen, in group 2B. Brewed coffee is also grouped in 2B due to research that indicates it is “possibly carcinogenic to the human urinary bladder”.
So glyphosate (2A) is more toxic than caffeine (group 3) and cell phones (2B) – not, as Folta claims, less toxic. Sunlight’s group 1 status (known carcinogen) comes as no surprise to those of us who are bombarded with warnings to use suncream and avoid sunburn.
Dus...
Folta zit fout mbt zijn uitspraken over het verband tussen glyfosaat en kanker:
http://www.gmwatch.org/ne(...)-making-false-claims
We asked Prof Chris Portier, a co-author of the IARC report on glyphosate, for his response. He said:
“This quote is wrong. The IARC review process identifies hazards but does not quantify them. The comparison suggested by Dr Folta's quote does not exist. However, some comparisons are possible, such as the evidence that glyphosate is carcinogenic is stronger than for cell phones (group 2B) and not as strong as that for alcohol (group 1).”
Folta’s claim about caffeine appears to be false. I could find no IARC classification of caffeine, an ingredient of coffee, after 1991, when it concluded it was “not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans (Group 3)”. That means there was inadequate evidence for carcinogenicity.
Caffeic acid, which is present in coffee in minute amounts, is classified by IARC as a “possible” carcinogen, in group 2B. Brewed coffee is also grouped in 2B due to research that indicates it is “possibly carcinogenic to the human urinary bladder”.
So glyphosate (2A) is more toxic than caffeine (group 3) and cell phones (2B) – not, as Folta claims, less toxic. Sunlight’s group 1 status (known carcinogen) comes as no surprise to those of us who are bombarded with warnings to use suncream and avoid sunburn.
Dus...
niet geschoten is ook niet verkeerd.
Dus als het IARC iets stelt wat niet in jouw straatje past (over 2,4D) dan is het opeens niet meer betrouwbaar, maar in dit geval wat niet eens jouw standpunt volledig onderschrijft is het opeens wel weer betrouwbaar?quote:
Dan vragen we het toch de IARC zelf??
Dus...
Snap je zelf niet hoe idioot hypocriet je bent?
Oeps sorry, goed punt.quote:
Yo homies, jullie moeten het uiteindelijk helemaal zelf weten maar ik vond het wel fijn dat deze reeks een stuk trager was, maar ook meer signaal tov ruis had in de posts als je hem las. Nightflight is een idioot die al heel lang duidelijk heeft gemaakt incapable of unwilling te zijn om iets te leren of zijn mening ergens over aan te passen. Misschien is het beter gewoon te stoppen met op hem reageren, in plaats van deze thread in de 101-ste BNW thread laten veranderen waar iemand koppig domme shit post paginas lang terwijl andere mensen roepen dat het dom is paginas lang.
Niet obnoxious / paternalistisch bedoeld
Begrijpt iemand wat er nu wel en niet opgemaakt kan worden uit die IARC-categorien want conclusies lijken elkaar tegen te spreken. Soms lijkt het te gaan om de kans dat iets slecht is (hazard, probably carcinogenic etc.) totaal onafhankelijk van hoe carcinogenic het dan zou zijn, maar op andere momenten wordt er over gesproken alsof het gaat om de sterkte van het effect (10 keer zo carcinogenic, more or less toxic, etc.).
Op dinsdag 1 november 2016 00:05 schreef JanCees het volgende:
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
Het is zo helder als glas, volkomen duidelijk.
So glyphosate (2A) is more toxic than caffeine (group 3) and cell phones (2B) - not, as Folta claims, less toxic. Sunlight's group 1 status (known carcinogen) comes as no surprise to those of us who are bombarded with warnings to use suncream and avoid sunburn.
So glyphosate (2A) is more toxic than caffeine (group 3) and cell phones (2B) - not, as Folta claims, less toxic. Sunlight's group 1 status (known carcinogen) comes as no surprise to those of us who are bombarded with warnings to use suncream and avoid sunburn.
niet geschoten is ook niet verkeerd.
Heel transparant is het niet nee, met subtiele verschillen als possibly en probably..quote:
Begrijpt iemand wat er nu wel en niet opgemaakt kan worden uit die IARC-categorien want conclusies lijken elkaar tegen te spreken. Soms lijkt het te gaan om de kans dat iets slecht is (hazard, probably carcinogenic etc.) totaal onafhankelijk van hoe carcinogenic het dan zou zijn, maar op andere momenten wordt er over gesproken alsof het gaat om de sterkte van het effect (10 keer zo carcinogenic, more or less toxic, etc.).
Egregious professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography
Onikaan ni ov dovah
Onikaan ni ov dovah
Nou possibly en probably zijn nog steeds allebei probabilities (net als hazard) terwijl meer of minder toxic juist niet over probabilities maar over groottes gaat.quote:
[..]
Heel transparant is het niet nee, met subtiele verschillen als possibly en probably..
edit:
"This quote is wrong. The IARC review process identifies hazards but does not quantify them. The comparison suggested by Dr Folta's quote does not exist. However, some comparisons are possible, such as the evidence that glyphosate is carcinogenic is stronger than for cell phones (group 2B) and not as strong as that for alcohol (group 1)."
VS
So glyphosate (2A) is more toxic than caffeine (group 3) and cell phones (2B) - not, as Folta claims, less toxic. Sunlight's group 1 status (known carcinogen) comes as no surprise to those of us who are bombarded with warnings to use suncream and avoid sunburn.
Dat tweede volgt niet uit het eerste. Het eerste gaat over kansen dat iets wel of niet de kans op kanker verhoogt. Het hele punt van de eerste quote is juist dat probilities (hazards) iets anders zijn dan grootte van effecten (toxicity). Het tweede gaat over met hoeveel iets de kans op kanker verhoogt.
Op dinsdag 1 november 2016 00:05 schreef JanCees het volgende:
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
Hmm het moet wel over probabilities gaan en niet over de grootte van de effecten / toxicity, anders zou alcohol (groep 1) net so toxic zijn als asbest (ook groep 1), dat slaat natuurlijk nergens op.
Op dinsdag 1 november 2016 00:05 schreef JanCees het volgende:
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
Folta's quote "Glyphosate, according to the IARC, is less toxic than sunlight, cell phones, caffeine, table salt, and 10,000 times less of a risk for cancer as alcohol consumption." is een beetje een raar statement. Het haalt toxiciteit en cancer hazard door mekaar.
Er staan volgens mij deze fouten in:
- Glyphosate is less toxic than caffeine and table salt, als je kijkt naar de LD50 waarde. Dat had ie waarschijnlijk in zijn hoofd, en daar had ie de link met IARC niet bij moeten halen.
- Sunlight is klasse 1, dus veel beter bewijs dat het carcinogeen is. Niet dat het toxischer is.
- Cell phones minder bewijs
- De alcohol link: IARC gaat over het algemeen niet over risk, dus ik denk dat ie dat ergens anders vandaan heeft gehaald.
Dus Folta begrijpt de IARC kwalificaties niet goed. Uit de interpretaties van GMwatch en NightFlight blijkt ook dat ze het niet zo goed begrijpen.
Er staan volgens mij deze fouten in:
- Glyphosate is less toxic than caffeine and table salt, als je kijkt naar de LD50 waarde. Dat had ie waarschijnlijk in zijn hoofd, en daar had ie de link met IARC niet bij moeten halen.
- Sunlight is klasse 1, dus veel beter bewijs dat het carcinogeen is. Niet dat het toxischer is.
- Cell phones minder bewijs
- De alcohol link: IARC gaat over het algemeen niet over risk, dus ik denk dat ie dat ergens anders vandaan heeft gehaald.
Dus Folta begrijpt de IARC kwalificaties niet goed. Uit de interpretaties van GMwatch en NightFlight blijkt ook dat ze het niet zo goed begrijpen.
Het is inderdaad een beetje kansloos geworden.quote:
Yo homies, jullie moeten het uiteindelijk helemaal zelf weten maar ik vond het wel fijn dat deze reeks een stuk trager was, maar ook meer signaal tov ruis had in de posts als je hem las. Nightflight is een idioot die al heel lang duidelijk heeft gemaakt incapable of unwilling te zijn om iets te leren of zijn mening ergens over aan te passen. Misschien is het beter gewoon te stoppen met op hem reageren, in plaats van deze thread in de 101-ste BNW thread laten veranderen waar iemand koppig domme shit post paginas lang terwijl andere mensen roepen dat het dom is paginas lang.
Niet obnoxious / paternalistisch bedoeld
Inderdaad en die IARC gast die op GMwatch gequote wordt geeft dat ook aan. Daarna interpreteerd GMwatch die IARC gast weer verkeerd en daarna echo-ed nightwatch dat en roept hij dat het heel simpel isquote:
Folta's quote "Glyphosate, according to the IARC, is less toxic than sunlight, cell phones, caffeine, table salt, and 10,000 times less of a risk for cancer as alcohol consumption." is een beetje een raar statement. Het haalt toxiciteit en cancer hazard door mekaar.
Er staan volgens mij deze fouten in:
- Glyphosate is less toxic than caffeine and table salt, als je kijkt naar de LD50 waarde. Dat had ie waarschijnlijk in zijn hoofd, en daar had ie de link met IARC niet bij moeten halen.
- Sunlight is klasse 1, dus veel beter bewijs dat het carcinogeen is. Niet dat het toxischer is.
- Cell phones minder bewijs
- De alcohol link: IARC gaat over het algemeen niet over risk, dus ik denk dat ie dat ergens anders vandaan heeft gehaald.
Dus Folta begrijpt de IARC kwalificaties niet goed. Uit de interpretaties van GMwatch en NightFlight blijkt ook dat ze het niet zo goed begrijpen.
Wel echt slecht van IARC dat ze daar niet duidelijker en explicieter over zijn. Voor hen is het waarschijnlijk een heel logische classificatie maar het is duidelijk dat mensen het systematisch verkeerd begrijpen.
kanttekening: ik ga hierboven er van uit dat Folta zich op die classificaties heeft gebasseerd, IARC heeft meer informatie op hun website staan en het lijkt me logisch dat daar ook onderzoek tussen zit dat naar de risico-grootte kijkt ipv de kans.
Op dinsdag 1 november 2016 00:05 schreef JanCees het volgende:
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
De polls worden ook in 9 van de 10 gevallen gepeild met een meerderheid democraten. Soms zelf +10% _O-
Niet alleen "lang geleden " in Vietnam.
http://realitieswatch.com(...)lassified-documents/
http://realitieswatch.com(...)lassified-documents/
We must guard against the aquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.
Eisenhower1961.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.
Eisenhower1961.
