Oorlog in Libië #101: Waar de rebellen langzaam vooruitgang boeken.

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De NAVO ontkent. Daar sta ik van te kijken zeg.

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TAL: As you seem to be the only Gaddafi supporter here with a mind I will take the trouble to respond to you. You brought to our attention an article in the Independent by Patrick Cockburn that quotes Amnesty International saying they have found "no conclusive evidence" of systematic rape by Gaddafi's forces. I understand your delight at finding this story. The steps in evaluating evidence, I learned in forensic investigation are:
* Is the source credible? The Independent is hardly an objective source, nor is Mr. Cockburn an impartial journalist.
I agrred with his take on the West's involvement in Iraq and use of the WMD excuse. I yelled bullshit at the time because I saw no credible evidence for WMD. I would still like to see George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfield locked up as long as they shared the cell with Gaddafi.
The Independent and Mr. Cockburn lose credibility because they don't raise the issues of brutality of the Saddams and Gaddafis and Ahmadinejads.
* What is the mental state of the plaintiff? Does the word of a woman, bruised, terrified , shamed, facing ostracization or honour killing at the hands of her family carry less weight with you than the words of an investigator who "could find no conclusive evidence"? Or a denial from the regime's mouthpiece Moussa Ibrahim?
What evidence would be conclusive? Live videos of gang rapes? Of Brother Leader telling his troops to take the
Viagre and go rape the rats? A DNA team from CSI Miami?
* What are the circumstances surrounding the events? Does the situation of defenceless women in the male dominated society of a repressive regime, confronted by armed soldiers, give you any hints?
* What constitutes solid evidence? Are thousands of stories of torture and rape so easily dismissed? In my country we say where there's smoke there's fire.
The thousands of public tortures, hangings, of disappearances are no secret. The track record of the regime is well established.
The reality, TAL, is that for those who choose to shut their eyes, no proof is possible.
I was hoping you were a free thinking, unbiased, open-minded person. I won't bother in the future.

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7 min 33 sec ago - LibyaLibya's rebels expect to receive an offer from Muammar Gaddafi "very soon" that could end the four-month-old war, a senior official told AFP said Saturday.

Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, vice chairman of the National Transitional Council, said intermediaries had indicated that a proposal from the Libyan strongman was in the works, offering the faintest glimmer of hope for a deal to end the bloodshed.

"We expect to get an offer very soon; he is unable to breathe," said Ghoga. "We want to preserve life, so we want to end the war as soon as possible," he added. "We have always left him some room for an exit."

Earlier Saturday, Ghoga said the NTC was not in direct talks with Gaddafi, but they understood though contacts with France and South Africa that an offer was being prepared.

"These are the countries chosen by the Gaddafi regime to present a proposal to the National Transitional Council, but we have not received anything to date."

"We will take a serious look at it," Ghoga said, while reiterating the NTC's demands that any deal results in the removal of Gaddafi an his family from power and politics.

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Op zaterdag 25 juni 2011 20:26 schreef houda het volgende:
Al Jazeera English:

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Libya unrest: Football stars defect to rebels

A group of 17 leading Libyan football figures have announced their defection to the rebels.

They include the nation's goalkeeper, Juma Gtat, three other national team members, and the coach of Tripoli's top club al-Ahly, Adel bin Issa.

Mr Gtat and Mr bin Issa announced the group's defection to the BBC during a late night meeting in the rebel-held Nafusa Mountains in western Libya.

It comes on the heels of defections by military officers.

Propaganda blow

At their hotel in the town of Jadu I met goalie Juma Gtat relaxing in his room.

"I am telling Col Gaddafi to leave us alone and allow us to create a free Libya," he said as we sat on his hotel bed in front of other players.

"In fact I wish he would leave this life altogether," he added with a laugh.

In football-mad North Africa, the defections are clearly a propaganda blow for Col Gaddafi. But he has always resisted any pressure, political or military, to leave office.

And he has some advantages on the various battlefields in this war across Libya.

Here, in the rebel-held Western Mountains, in besieged Misrata in the centre, and in the east, the long-time Libyan leader has most of the heavy weapons - such as multiple rocket launchers and tanks.

The rebels mostly have small machine guns and, in some cases, only ancient rifles.

The longer-range rockets and artillery at Col Gaddafi's command mean he can often pin the rebels down to their positions.

Mr bin Issa, told me he had chosen to come to the Western Mountains "to send a message that Libya should be unified and free".

"I hope to wake up one morning to find that Gaddafi is no longer there," he added.
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Desert units

Sports stars matter in the battle for public opinion. But the rebels still need to win some decisive military victories if they are to advance.

In the Western Mountains, they have managed to seize most of the high ground, taking control of a series of towns.

I have travelled from Wazzin, hard on the Tunisian border, to the rebel stronghold of Jadu.

Although some of the towns in between have suffered serious attacks, they remain in rebel hands.

But troops loyal to Col Gaddafi hold the plains and valleys below.

The colonel also holds the capital, its approaches, and large parts of this mainly desert country.

So far, most of the attention has of course been on the heavy fighting for coastal cities, where most of Libya's population live.

But Col Gaddafi also has arms caches and military units deep in the Sahara Desert - some of which have not yet been deployed.

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Libyan swap of detainees may signal broader talks

BENGHAZI, Libya, June 24 (Reuters) - Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has released dozens of rebel supporters and allowed them to sail back to Benghazi on Friday in a move that could mark the beginning of broader talks between the adversaries.

In a transfer facilitated by the Red Cross, a ship carrying about 50 men detained by Gaddafi forces in western Libya docked in Benghazi's harbour alongside hundreds of other refugees.

"These are mainly civilians...Among them there are 51 people who were detained in Tripoli but were released by the government there so we brought them back," said Dibeh Fakhr, a spokeswoman for the International Committee of the Red Cross in Benghazi.

Pointing at the vessel, festooned with opposition flags and a Red Cross banner, she said a total of several hundred people, including 66 former detainees, were scheduled to come back from Tripoli in two rotations.

In the other direction, 110 Tripoli residents trapped in the east would be allowed to sail to the capital, she said.

Rebel sources said the swap underlined Gaddafi's weakness and willingness to discuss ways out of a war in the oil-rich North African nation that has been deadlocked since February.

Rebels said on Friday they were having indirect contacts with Tripoli on a possible political settlement under which Gaddafi would step down and pave the way for a new leadership.

"For Gaddafi, this release shows that he is weak and ready to step down," said one rebel source. "He is the one who is initiating these talks. Otherwise why would this have happened?"

This view contrasted sharply with the sentiment in Tripoli where Gaddafi vowed in a state television broadcast this week to fight on until the end. Tripoli officials could not be immediately reached for comment.

Separately, a rebel spokesman said they had earlier released five Gaddafi supporters and sent them back back to the west.

As the ship dropped anchor, crowds of Benghazi residents whistled and waved Libya's opposition, monarchy-era flags.

Leaning from the handrails of the ship, passengers chanted: "Libya is for strong men. We don't need Muammar and his family". Smaller vessels escorting the boat into the harbour blasted their horns in greeting.

One passenger, who gave his name only as Murat, said: "I am from Benghazi. I am happy to be back. I was a prisoner in Tripoli. I don't want to say anything more."

Some were puzzled at the sudden changes of fortune for their family members whom they did not expect to see any time soon.

"My uncle was captured during a battle near Brega and has been in Tripoli all this time," said Honaida Shuweihidin, 25.

"It's very strange he was released. I don't understand why. It's a good idea. We are all brothers, one country. Revolution will come to Tripoli too."

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 11:02 schreef Hockeystick het volgende:
Al-qaida wordt geholpen door de NATO en de VS in Libië....wat zal libië erop vooruit gaan als al-qaida aan de macht komt....

Elke Europees land twijfelt aan de nut om Kadhaffi af te zetten, waarom worden er anders geen grond troepen ingezet?
Kies je kant van Kadhaffi lijdt je gezichtsverlies
Kies je de kant van Al-qaida dan is de oorlog in Afghanistan en Irak totaal zinloos geweest de afgelopen decennia....

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 03:01 schreef svann het volgende:
CBS report on Libya’s Gaddafi latest threat to target civilians in the West in response to NATO airstrikes

Libya's Gaddafi is threatening to target civilians in the West in response to NATO airstrikes

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 11:02 schreef Hockeystick het volgende:
Al-qaida wordt geholpen door de NATO en de VS in Libië....wat zal libië erop vooruit gaan als al-qaida aan de macht komt....

Elke Europees land twijfelt aan de nut om Kadhaffi af te zetten, waarom worden er anders geen grond troepen ingezet?
Kies je kant van Kadhaffi lijdt je gezichtsverlies
Kies je de kant van Al-qaida dan is de oorlog in Afghanistan en Irak totaal zinloos geweest de afgelopen decennia....

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'Kaddafi niet van plan macht op te geven'

De Libische leider Muammar Kaddafi is niet van plan de macht op te geven. Dit zei een woordvoerder van het Libische regime, Mussa Ibrahim, vandaag in Tripoli. Rebellen die met als basis Benghazi in Oost-Libië het regime belagen, hebben de laatste dagen gesteld dat Kaddafi zo ver in het nauw is gedreven, dat hij aan een voorstel werkt om zijn in 1969 gevestigde regime zonder verder bloedvergieten op te doeken.

Maar Ibrahim zei: 'We geven niet toe aan bendes criminelen die onze steden gijzelen. We geven niet toe aan de criminele organisatie NAVO, iedereen blijft vechten'.

De vicevoorzitter van de Nationale Overgangsraad die de rebellen in Benghazi als nieuwe regering hebben gevormd, Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, zei gisteren dat tussenpersonen hebben laten weten dat 'Kaddafi geen lucht meer krijgt en snel met een voorstel komt'.

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 16:51 schreef The_Undertaker_ het volgende:
The Real Reason for NATO Attacking Libya EXPOSED

The Real Reason for NATO Attacking Libya EXPOSED

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 17:20 schreef Weltschmerz het volgende:

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Interessant berichtje.

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 17:35 schreef houda het volgende:
Het kan de mensen in Libie echt helemaal niks schelen wat voor reden er is! Voor hun telt dat ze kunnen leven en niet vermoord/verkracht worden!

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 17:35 schreef houda het volgende:

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Het kan de mensen in Libie echt helemaal niks schelen wat voor reden er is! Voor hun telt dat ze kunnen leven en niet vermoord/verkracht worden!

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 18:11 schreef The_Undertaker_ het volgende:

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De NAVO vermoord hen toch ook, hoeveel Libische burgers zijn al niet "per ongeluk" gedood door de NAVO?

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Gaddafi niet bij onderhandelingen Libië

Libische leider Moammar Gaddafi heeft ermee ingestemd om niet deel te nemen aan van de onderhandelingen met de Afrikaanse Unie (AU) over de crisis in Libië.

Dat maakte de Unie vanmiddag in een verklaring bekend. Het bericht kon nog niet bevestigd bij de Libische autoriteiten. Persbureau AP spreekt van een grote concessie van de Libische leider als hij inderdaad geen rol speelt bij de onderhandelingen.

Echter heeft Gaddafi zich gedurende de crisis in Libië al vaker niet gehouden aan afspraken. De Libische opstandelingen zijn daarom sceptisch. Zij verwerpen de bemiddelingspogingen van de Afrikaanse Unie die oproept tot een staakt-het-vuren en onderhandelingen. De Libische Nationale Raad wil dat Gaddafi eerst opstapt voordat onderhandelingen kunnen plaatsvinden.

Vandaag honderd dagen NAVO in Libië

Vandaag is het de honderdste dag dat opstandelingen en de NAVO-landen samenwerken in de strijd tegen het leger van Gaddafi. Buitenlandredacteur Juurd Eijsvoogel schreef gisteren in NRC Handelsblad over de precaire situatie in Libië. Volgens hem is niet te voorspellen hoe lang de strijd nog gaat duren:

“Zondag is het honderd dagen geleden dat de bombardementen op Libië begonnen, en het eind van de strijd is nog niet in zicht. “Het kan morgen met Gaddafi’s bewind gedaan zijn, het kan ook nog weken duren”, zei de secretaris-generaal van de NAVO begin deze maand. En zo staat het er nog steeds voor. Het bombarderen gaat door, maar op de grond verschuiven de frontlinies amper.”

Donderdag waarschuwde Gaddafi het Westen dat het doden van Libische burgers door de NAVO verregaande consequenties zal hebben. Vorige week zondag kwamen negen mensen om bij een luchtaanval van de NAVO.

Morgen mogelijk arrestatiebevel Gaddafie

Het Internationale Strafhof beslist morgen waarschijnlijk over een mogelijk arrestatiebevel voor misdaden tegen de menselijkheid door Gaddafi. Ook over een arrestatiebevel van zijn zoon Saif wordt dan besloten.

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Op zondag 26 juni 2011 18:11 schreef The_Undertaker_ het volgende:

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De NAVO vermoord hen toch ook, hoeveel Libische burgers zijn al niet "per ongeluk" gedood door de NAVO? Libië is heus niet het eerste land dat zogenaamd bevrijd wordt van een tiran hoor. Kijk maar eens naar hoe dat is gegaan in Irak. De Irakezen gingen jou voor, leer ervan. Ze hebben hun tiran opgehangen, maar ze leven nog steeds niet in veiligheid.

Je krijgt iig geen veiligheid in Libië door ingrijpen van het buitenland.

19 maart 2003 - Inval Irak
19 maart 2011 - Start NAVO-bombardementen Libië

De geschiedenis herhaalt zich, maar ben jij zo slim om ervan te leren?