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  dinsdag 30 september 2008 @ 04:33:47 #1
89730 Drugshond
De Euro. Mislukt vanaf dag 1.
pi_62015532
quote:
The US and global financial crisis is becoming much more severe in spite of the Treasury rescue plan. The risk of a total systemic meltdown is now as high as ever

Nouriel Roubini Sep 29, 2008

It is obvious that the current financial crisis is becoming more severe in spite of the Treasury rescue plan (or maybe because of it as this plan it totally flawed). The severe strains in financial markets (money markets, credit markets, stock markets, CDS and derivative markets) are becoming more severe rather than less severe in spite of the nuclear option (after the Fannie and Freddie $200 billion bazooka bailout failed to restore confidence) of a $700 billion package: interbank spreads are widening (TED spread, swap spreads, Libo-OIS spread) and are at level never seen before; credit spreads (such as junk bond yield spreads relative to Treasuries are widening to new peaks; short-term Treasury yields are going back to near zero levels as there is flight to safety; CDS spread for financial institutions are rising to extreme levels (Morgan Stanley ones at 1200 last week) as the ban on shorting of financial stock has moved the pressures on financial firms to the CDS market; and stock markets around the world have reacted very negatively to this rescue package (US market are down about 3% this morning at their opening).

Let me explain now in more detail why we are now back to the risk of a total systemic financial meltdown…

It is no surprise as financial institutions in the US and around advanced economies are going bust: in the US the latest victims were WaMu (the largest US S&L) and today Wachovia (the sixth largest US bank); in the UK after Northern Rock and the acquisition of HBOS by Lloyds TSB you now have the bust and rescue of B&B; in Belgium you had Fortis going bust and being rescued over the weekend; in German HRE, a major financial institution is also near bust and in need of a government rescue. So this is not just a US financial crisis; it is a global financial crisis hitting institutions in the US, UK, Eurozone and other advanced economies (Iceland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada etc.).

And the strains in financial markets – especially short term interbank markets - are becoming more severe in spite of the Fed and other central banks having literally injected about $300 billion of liquidity in the financial system last week alone including massive liquidity lending to Morgan and Goldman. In a solvency crisis and credit crisis that goes well beyond illiquidity no one is lending to counterparties as no one trusts any counterparty (even the safest ones) and everyone is hoarding the liquidity that is injected by central banks. And since this liquidity goes only to banks and major broker dealers the rest of the shadow banking system has not access to this liquidity as the credit transmission mechanisms is blocked.

After the bust of Bear and Lehman and the merger of Merrill with BofA I suggested that Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs should also merge with a large financial institution that has a large base of insured deposits so as to avoid a run on their overnite liabilities. Instead Morgan and Goldman went for the cosmetic approach of converting into bank holding companies as a way to get further liquidity support – and regulation as banks – of the Fed and as a way to acquire safe deposits. But neither institution can create in a short time a franchise of branches and neither one has the time and resources to acquire smaller banks. * Thus, the gambit of converting into bank while not being banks yet has not worked and the run against them has accelerated in the last week: Morgan’s CDS spread went through the roof on Friday to over 1200 and the firm has already lost over a third of its hedge funds clients together with their highly profitable prime brokering business (this is really a kiss of death for Morgan); and the coming roll-off of the interbank lines to Morgan would seal its collapse. Even Goldman Sachs is under severe stress losing business, losing money, experiencing a severe widening of its CDS spreads and at risk of losing most of its values most of its lines of business (including trading) are now losing money.

Both institutions are highly recommended to stop dithering and playing for time as delay will be destructive: they should merge now with a large foreign financial institution as no US institution is sound enough and large enough to be a sound merger partner. If Mack and Blankfein don’t want to end up like Fuld they should do today a Thain and merge as fast as they can with another large commercial banks. Maybe Mitsubishi and a bunch of Japanese life insurers can take over Morgan; in Europe Barclays has its share of capital trouble and has just swallowed part of Lehman; while most other UK banks are too weak to take over Goldman. The only institution sound enough to swallow Goldman may be HSBC. Or maybe Nomura in Japan should make a bid for Goldman. Either way Mack and Blankfein should sell at a major discount of current price their firm before they end up like Bear and be offered in a few weeks a couple of bucks a share for their faltering operation. And the Fed and Treasury should tell them to hurry up as they are both much bigger than Bear or Lehman and their collapse would have severe systemic effects.

When investors don’t trust any more even venerable institutions such as Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs you know that the financial crisis is as severe as ever and the fear of collapse of counterparties does not spare anyone. When a nuclear option of a monster $700 billion rescue plan is not even able to rally stock markets (as they are all in free fall today) you know this is a global crisis of confidence in the financial system. We were literally close to a total meltdown of the system on Wednesday (and Thursday morning) two weeks ago when the $85 b bailout of AIG led to a 5% fall in US stock markets (instead of a rally). Then the US authorities went for the nuclear option of the $700 billion plan as a way to avoid the meltdown together with bans on short sales, a guarantee of money market funds and an injection of over $300 billion in the financial system. Now the prospect of this plan passing (but there is some lingering deal risk the votes in the House are not certain) -as well as the other massive policy actions taken to stop short selling “speculation” and support interbank markets and money market funds - is not sufficient to make the markets rally as there is a generalized loss of confidence in financial markets and in financial institutions that no policy action seem to be able to control.

The next step of this panic could become the mother of all bank runs, i.e. a run on the trillion dollar plus of the cross border short-term interbank liabilities of the US banking and financial system as foreign banks as starting to worry about the safety of their liquid exposures to US financial institutions; such a silent cross border bank run has already started as foreign banks are worried about the solvency of US banks and are starting to reduce their exposure. And if this run accelerates - as it may now - a total meltdown of the US financial system could occur. We are thus now in a generalized panic mode and back to the risk of a systemic meltdown of the entire financial system. And US and foreign policy authorities seem to be clueless about what needs to be done next. Maybe they should today start with a coordinated 100 bps reduction in policy rates in all the major economies in the world to show that they are starting to seriously recognize and address this rapidly worsening financial crisis.
Dit is wel scary.... hij legt goed uit waar nu (vandaag) de problemen zitten, geen enkele bank is safe. En ik ga vrij ver om hem op zijn woord te vertrouwen.
pi_62015533
Ik heb deze copy paste net in een ander bericht gezien.
pi_62015535
En natuurlijk vind ik die post nu niet. Ik moet toch maar eens stoppen met drinken
Mijn fout ofzo.
  dinsdag 30 september 2008 @ 04:36:16 #4
89730 Drugshond
De Euro. Mislukt vanaf dag 1.
pi_62015536
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 04:34 schreef santax het volgende:
Ik heb deze copy paste net in een ander bericht gezien.
Klopt... maar wel een separaat topic waardig. Ik ben nog scherp om 04:35
pi_62015543
Toch, het is dat ik er net zo hard slachtoffer van kan worden, anders zou ik er wel mee moeten lachen.

Wat elk kind op de basisschool al weet: leen je knikkers niet uit als je vandaag zelf nog wil knikkeren. De jongen die geen knikkers zelf meer heeft maar zegt: als ik die van jou even mag win ik alles terug, bleek vaak niet voor niets zelf geen knikkers meer te hebben... Datzelfde doen we wel in het groot met zijn allen. Met geld...
pi_62015554
Langzamerhand komt het probleem ook bij de gewone man naar boven drijven.
pi_62015575
Dit probleem zou lang zo erg niet zijn als de media er niet zo uitgebreid over zou spreken. Want het klopt wat men eerder op dit forum heeft gezegt: vertrouwen. Als de consument zijn geld laat staan op de banken is er niets aan de hand. Neemt men het op... Dan zijn de rapen gaar. Maar juist dat is wel een serieus probleem. Je kunt in een tijd waarin de overheid zover weg staat van de burger je financiele hart niet langer laten draaien op basis van vertrouwen. Vertrouwens is namelijk iets dat je moet verdienen en niet iets dat je zomaar krijgt. In een klimaat waar dat vertrouwen keer op keer geschaad word door overheid en the happy few die zich tot de 1% mogen rekenen die 99% van het kapitaal in handen heeft kun je niet van de ongeschoolde man verwachten dat die consequent achterlijk blijft. Er moet een stevig fundament zijn onder die financiele basis. Daar word iedereen beter van, behalve het handjevol speculanten dat zich zelf zonodig van stinkend rijk naar zeer stinkend rijk moest manipuleren op de beurs Want dat elite groepje, juist de groep die hier op korte termijn nog beter van is geworden, is wel het groepje dat de rest van de wereld op de rand van de afgrond heeft gebracht.
pi_62015577
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 04:55 schreef LoggedIn het volgende:
het wordt wel opgelost, op een of andere manier..
Alles komt goed, u kunt met een gerust hart gaan slapen.
***** Kraak.....
pi_62015582
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 04:57 schreef santax het volgende:
Dit probleem zou lang zo erg niet zijn als de media er niet zo uitgebreid over zou spreken. Want het klopt wat men eerder op dit forum heeft gezegt: vertrouwen. Als de consument zijn geld laat staan op de banken is er niets aan de hand. Neemt men het op... Dan zijn de rapen gaar. Maar juist dat is wel een serieus probleem. Je kunt in een tijd waarin de overheid zover weg staat van de burger je financiele hart niet langer laten draaien op basis van vertrouwen. Vertrouwens is namelijk iets dat je moet verdienen en niet iets dat je zomaar krijgt. In een klimaat waar dat vertrouwen keer op keer geschaad word door overheid en the happy few die zich tot de 1% mogen rekenen die 99% van het kapitaal in handen heeft kun je niet van de ongeschoolde man verwachten dat die consequent achterlijk blijft. Er moet een stevig fundament zijn onder die financiele basis. Daar word iedereen beter van, behalve het handjevol speculanten dat zich zelf zonodig van stinkend rijk naar zeer stinkend rijk moest manipuleren op de beurs Want dat elite groepje, juist de groep die hier op korte termijn nog beter van is geworden, is wel het groepje dat de rest van de wereld op de rand van de afgrond heeft gebracht.
Er werd jarenlang niet over gesproken omdat het weggemoffeld werd.. en tadaa.. zie hier het resultaat.
pi_62015589
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:01 schreef indahnesia.com het volgende:

[..]

Er werd jarenlang niet over gesproken omdat het weggemoffeld werd.. en tadaa.. zie hier het resultaat.
Tsja en voor de media is dit smullen, wat we zien is nog slechts het puntje van de ijsberg.
***** Kraak.....
pi_62015590
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:00 schreef kraaksandaal het volgende:

[..]

Alles komt goed, u kunt met een gerust hart gaan slapen.
Natuurlijk zijn er ernstige problemen, maar overheden zijn niet zó zwak dat we zomaar even terug de middeleeuwen instappen. Er komt wel een oplossing, het belangrijkste is dat we gewoon niet allemaal in paniek raken
pi_62015592
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:01 schreef indahnesia.com het volgende:

[..]

Er werd jarenlang niet over gesproken omdat het weggemoffeld werd.. en tadaa.. zie hier het resultaat.
Neh dat staat los van het niet spreken ervan. Kijk naar Fortis. Donderdag: gerucht werd de wereld in gebracht. Vrijdag: media maakt er een paniekverhaal van. Zondag: de bank bestaat niet meer. Ja de naam bestaat nog. Maar het is echt niet meer Fortis.
pi_62015596
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:05 schreef LoggedIn het volgende:

[..]

Natuurlijk zijn er ernstige problemen, maar overheden zijn niet zó zwak dat we zomaar even terug de middeleeuwen instappen. Er komt wel een oplossing, het belangrijkste is dat we gewoon niet allemaal in paniek raken
Overheden zijn degenene die meeste uitgaven hebben met geleend geld.
***** Kraak.....
pi_62015597
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:00 schreef kraaksandaal het volgende:

[..]

Alles komt goed, u kunt met een gerust hart gaan slapen.

"Er zijn geen economische problemen"
  dinsdag 30 september 2008 @ 05:08:50 #16
89730 Drugshond
De Euro. Mislukt vanaf dag 1.
pi_62015599
Nog een leuker artikel.
quote:
House Votes 'No' on Paulson's Bailout -- But Is the Financial Meltdown Averted?

By Mike Whitney, CounterPunch. Posted September 29, 2008.

The fear on Capital Hill is palpable, especially among the Democrats who have led the effort to pass Paulson's boondoggle ASAP.

Today the US House rejected Treasury Secretary Paulson's $700 billion Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008. Paulson said he has the votes, but Paulson was wrong. The House bucked the Paulson's claim that buying up the illiquid mortgage-backed assets from the nation's banks would be enough to save the financial system from an impending meltdown. The jury remains out on that question, too. Professor Nouriel Roubini, chairman of Roubini Global Economics, summed it up like this, "You're not resolving the two fundamental issues: You still have to recapitalize the banking system, and household debt is going to stay high". A large number of economists believe Roubini is right. The bill would not solve the underlying problems.

There is a crisis. The banking system is undercapitalized, the credit markets are frozen, and foreign creditors are beginning to slow their purchases of US debt. It's all bad. At the same time the number of casualties among the financial giants -- Bear Stearns, Indymac, AIG, Lehman, Washington Mutual -- continues to grow. Three more struggling European banks were added to the list of financial institutions that needed emergency government assistance this past weekend. It's no wonder Congress feels like they have to do something to stop the bleeding.

Before the stock market opened on Monday, the futures markets had slumped heavily into negative territory, while the TED spread, an indicator of stress in interbank lending, had widened to 3.19, a level that suggests another rocky week of trading ahead. Could this be another Black Monday?

Paulson's bill was designed to avert a system-wide crash by clearing the banks' balance sheets so they could resume extending credit to consumers and businesses. The hope was that massive infusion of capital would "turn back the clock" to the happy days of low interest speculation and bubble economics. Paulson is a "one trick pony" who firmly adheres to the belief that wealth creation depends on maximum leverage and an ever-weakening currency. But that world view is no longer applicable after reaching Peak Credit, where consumers are no longer able to make the interest payments on their loans and businesses and financial institutions are forced to curb their spending and dump their toxic assets at firesale prices. The system is deleveraging and nothing can stop it. Paulson has yet to accept the new reality.

Besides, there was no guarantee that the banks would use the money in the way that Paulson imagines. As one Wall Street veteran explained to me, "I don't see one penny of that $700 billion ending up helping the broader economy. I see it being used to prop up share prices so the insiders can salvage as much as possible when dumping their shares".

Indeed, the $700 billion is just part of a massive "pump and dump" scheme engineered with the tacit approval of the US Treasury and the Federal Reserve. Once the banksters have offloaded their fraudulent securities and crappy paper on Uncle Sam, they will do whatever they need to do pad the bottom line and drive their stocks up. That means they will shovel capital into hard assets, foreign currencies, gold, interest rate swaps, carry trade swindles, and Swiss bank accounts. The notion that they will recapitalize so they can provide loans to US consumers and businesses in a slumping economy is a pipedream.

The US is headed into its worst recession in 60 years. The housing market is crashing, securitzation is kaput, and the broader economy is drifting towards the reef. The banks are not going to waste their time trying to revive a moribund US market where consumers and businesses are already tapped out. No way; it's on to greener pastures. They'll move their capital wherever they think they can maximize their profits. In fact, a sizable portion of the $700 billion will likely be invested in commodities, which means that we'll see another round of hyperbolic speculation in food and energy futures pushing food and fuel prices into the stratosphere. Ironically, the taxpayers' largesse will be used against them, making a bad situation even worse.

Then again, if a rehabbed bill isn't passed, no one can predict with certainty what will happen. Here's how Tim Shipman summed it up in "Bailout Failure Will Cause US Crash", in the UK Telegraph:

"Officials close to Paulson are privately painting a far bleaker portrait of the fragility of the global economy than that advanced by President George W Bush in his televised address last week.

One Republican said that the message from government officials is that 'the economy is dropping into the john.' He added: 'We could see falls of 3,000 or 4,000 points on the Dow [the New York market that currently trades at around 11,000]. That could happen in just a couple of days.

'What's being put around behind the scenes is that we're looking at 1930s stuff. We're looking at catastrophe, huge, amazing catastrophe. Everybody is extraordinarily scared. It's going to be really, really nasty.'"

The fear on Capital Hill is palpable, especially among the Democrats who have led the effort to pass Paulson's boondoggle ASAP. Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, and fellow Democratic Party leaders, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid and the blabbering blowhard from Massachusetts, Barney Frank, did everything in their power to sandbag dissenters, quash resistance, and rush the bill to a vote without the usual deliberation and debate. Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio) was one of many angry members of congress who lashed out at Pelosi's highhandedness. It's all caught on a one minute video:

Rep. Marcy Kaptur: "The normal legislative process that should accompany a monumental proposal to bail out Wall Street has been shelved. Yes, shelved! Only a few insiders are doing the dealing. These criminals have so much power they can shut down the normal legislative process of the highest lawmaking body in this land. All the committees that should be scanning every word that is being negotiated have been benched. And that means the American people have been benched. We are constitutionally sworn to protect this country against all enemies foreign and domestic, and yes, my friends, there are enemies….The people who are pushing this bill are the very same one's who are responsible for the implosion on Wall Street. They were fraudulent then; and they are fraudulent now.We should say No to this deal".

Republicans were equally furious at the way the Pelosi Politburo kept the rank and file out of loop as much as possible. Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas) summarized the feelings of a great many congressmen who felt they were being railroaded by Pelosi and Co: "We have seen no bill. We have been here debating talking points …House Republicans have been cut out of the process and derided by the leaders of the House Democrats as "unpatriotic" for not participating in supporting the bill. Mr. Speaker, I have been thrown out of more meetings in the last 24 hours than I ever thought possible as an elected official of 800,000 citizens of N. Texas….Since we didn't have hearings, since we didn't have markup, let's at least put this legislation up on the Internet for 24 hours and let the American people see what we have done in the dark of night. After all, I have never gotten more mail on a single issue than on this bill that is before us tonight."

Rep Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) gave the best speech of the day railing against the financial industry and defending the interests of working class Americans.

Rep. Dennis Kucinich: "The $700 bailout bill is being driven by fear not fact. This is too much money, in too short of time, going to too few people, while too many questions remain unanswered. Why aren't we having hearings…Why aren't we considering any other alternatives other than giving $700 billion to Wall Street? Why aren't we passing new laws to stop the speculation which triggered this? Why aren't we putting up new regulatory structures to protect the investors? Why aren't we directly helping homeowners with their debt burdens? Why aren't we helping American families faced with bankruptcy? Isn't time for fundamental change to our debt-based monetary system so we can free ourselves from the manipulation of the Federal Reserve and the banks? Is this the US Congress or the Board of Directors of Goldman Sachs?"

There was greater opposition to the Paulson bill than any legislation in the last half century. The groundswell of public outrage has been unprecedented, and yet, Congress, completely insulated from the demands of their constituents, continues to blunder ahead following the same pro-industry script as their ideological twins in the White House. There's not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties. Not surprisingly, neither Pelosi nor any of the Democratic leadership has even met with any of the more than 200 leading economists who have stated unequivocally that the bailout will not address the central problems that are wreaking havoc on the financial system. Instead, they have caved in to Bush's demagoguery and the spurious claims of G-Sax bagman Henry Paulson, a man who has misled the public on every issue related to the subprime/financial fiasco so far.

There are parts of Paulson's Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 that every US taxpayer should understand, even though the media is keeping those facts obscured. In sections 128 and 132; the proposed bill would have suspend "mark to market" accounting. This means that the banks would no longer be required to assess the worth of their assets according to what similar assets fetched on the open market. For example, Merrill Lynch just sold $31 billion of mortgage-backed securities for $6 billion, which means that similar bonds should be similarly priced. Simple; right? The banks need to adjust the value of those assets on their balance sheet accordingly. This gives investors and depositors the ability to know whether their bank is in bad shape or not. But Paulson's bill lifted this requirement and allowed the banks to assign their own arbitrary value to these assets, which is the same old Enron-style accounting scam.

Paulson's bill also proposed the "Elimination of FASB 157 and 0% reserves". This is just as sketchy as it sounds. FASB or Financial Services Regulatory Relief Act reads:

"Federal Reserve Banks are authorized to pay banks interest on reserves under Section 201 of the Act. In addition, Section 202 permits the FRB to change the ratio of reserves a bank must maintain relative to its transaction accounts, allowing a zero reserve ratio if appropriate. Due to federal budgetary requirements, Section 203 provides that these legislative changes will not take effect until October 1, 2011."

It's all legal mumbo jumbo to conceal the fact that the banks can continue to operate with insufficient capital, which is why the system is currently blowing up. It all get's down to this: The reason the system is exploding is because the various financial institutions have been allowed -- via deregulation -- to act as banks and create as much credit as they choose without a sufficient capital base. When one reads about massive deleveraging, this relates directly to the fact that under-capitalized businesses were operating with too much debt in relationship to their capital. That's it in a nutshell; forget about the CDOs, the MBSs, the CDS and the whole alphabet soup of derivatives garbage. They were all inserted into the system so Wall Street landsharks could expand credit without supervision and balance trillions of dollars of debt on the back of a one dollar bill. This is why Paulson wants to suspend the rules which would bring credibility and trust back to the system. After all, that might impinge on Wall Street's ability to enrich itself at the public's expense.

Nouriel Roubini sites a study by Barry Eichengreen, "And Now the Great Depression", which points out why Paulson's $700 billion plan is likely to fail:

"Whenever there is a systemic banking crisis there is a need to recapitalize the banking/financial system to avoid an excessive and destructive credit contraction. But purchasing toxic/illiquid assets of the financial system is NOT the most effective and efficient way to recapitalize the banking system….

"A recent IMF study of 42 systemic banking crises across the world provides evidence of how different crises were resolved.

"First of all only in 32 of the 42 cases there was government financial intervention of any sort; in 10 cases systemic banking crises were resolved without any government financial intervention. Of the 32 cases where the government recapitalized the banking system only seven included a program of purchase of bad assets/loans (like the one proposed by the US Treasury). In 25 other cases there was no government purchase of such toxic assets. In 6 cases the government purchased preferred shares; in 4 cases the government purchased common shares; in 11 cases the government purchased subordinated debt; in 12 cases the government injected cash in the banks; in 2 cases credit was extended to the banks; and in 3 cases the government assumed bank liabilities. Even in cases where bad assets were purchased -- as in Chile -- dividends were suspended and all profits and recoveries had to be used to repurchase the bad assets. Of course in most cases multiple forms of government recapitalization of banks were used." (Nouriel Roubini's Global EonoMonitor.)

In short, it wouldn't work. Nor was it designed to work. The bill was just Paulson's way of carving a silver canoe for he and his brandy-drooling investor buddies so they can paddle away to some offshore haven while the rest of us drown in a bottomless ocean of debt.
Bijzonder lang artikel..... maar de bottemline is wel of de overheid er zich mee moet bemoeien.
Deze zin springt eruit.
- The system is deleveraging and nothing can stop it -
pi_62015600
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:08 schreef indahnesia.com het volgende:

[..]

[ afbeelding ]
"Er zijn geen economische problemen"
Ik bewonder die gast nog steeds vanwege zijn optimisme
Volgens mij kon je op de achtergrond de bommen letterlijk zien vallen
pi_62015601
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:06 schreef santax het volgende:

[..]

Neh dat staat los van het niet spreken ervan. Kijk naar Fortis. Donderdag: gerucht werd de wereld in gebracht. Vrijdag: media maakt er een paniekverhaal van. Zondag: de bank bestaat niet meer. Ja de naam bestaat nog. Maar het is echt niet meer Fortis.
Dat is natuurlijk onzin, want als een bank goed genoeg staat kopen ze gewoon eigen aandelen in om verdere problemen te voorkomen. Dat geld was er niet (hoe gek) en buiten dat kwamen ze nog miljarden tekort om zonder steun te blijven opereren. Het zijn niet de aandeelhouders die zorgen dat de bank geen geld meer heeft, dat doet de bank zelf natuurlijk.
pi_62015602
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:06 schreef santax het volgende:

[..]

Neh dat staat los van het niet spreken ervan. Kijk naar Fortis. Donderdag: gerucht werd de wereld in gebracht. Vrijdag: media maakt er een paniekverhaal van. Zondag: de bank bestaat niet meer. Ja de naam bestaat nog. Maar het is echt niet meer Fortis.
Als zo een gerucht dat kan bewerkstelligen dan was er iets mis met de balans.
***** Kraak.....
pi_62015603
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:09 schreef indahnesia.com het volgende:

[..]

Dat is natuurlijk onzin, want als een bank goed genoeg staat kopen ze gewoon eigen aandelen in om verdere problemen te voorkomen. Dat geld was er niet (hoe gek) en buiten dat kwamen ze nog miljarden tekort om zonder steun te blijven opereren. Het zijn niet de aandeelhouders die zorgen dat de bank geen geld meer heeft, dat doet de bank zelf natuurlijk.
Mja, de aandeelhouders hoeven uitgaven zoals het overnemen van de ABN niet goed te keuren
Geen enkele bestuurder van een beurs genoteerde onderneming gaat tegen de haren in van de grote aandeelhouders... Dat kost ze namelijk hun dikbetaalde functie.
pi_62015606
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:10 schreef kraaksandaal het volgende:

[..]

Als zo een gerucht dat kan bewerkstelligen dan was er iets mis met de balans.
Dat was al duidelijk toen de aandeelhouders in juni het aftreden eisten van die gast. Die toen heel slim zijn dame (2de man) offerde en zelf bleef aanzitten. Maar toen was het al heel heel duidelijk dat Fortis ABN-AMRO niet kon kopen... Ze hadden de contanten gewoon niet. Een overgeefbare bestuurfout m.i.
pi_62015608
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:09 schreef santax het volgende:

[..]

Ik bewonder die gast nog steeds vanwege zijn optimisme
Volgens mij kon je op de achtergrond de bommen letterlijk zien vallen
De investeerders, voorzitters van de raad van bestuur, bankdirecteuren proberen 'm uit alle macht te imiteren.
***** Kraak.....
pi_62015609
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:14 schreef kraaksandaal het volgende:

[..]

De investeerders, voorzitters van de raad van bestuur, bankdirecteuren proberen 'm uit alle macht te imiteren.
Mja, dat kan ik dan weer niet ontkennen Zelfs niet met mijn gebrek aan kennis
  dinsdag 30 september 2008 @ 05:15:17 #24
89730 Drugshond
De Euro. Mislukt vanaf dag 1.
pi_62015613
quote:
Op dinsdag 30 september 2008 05:15 schreef Drugshond het volgende:
Ehmm...Fortis is een ander draadje.
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