Hét middel tegen puistjes, deel 3

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Op maandag 20 oktober 2003 09:16 schreef MaStar het volgende:

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Zag je echt geen resultaat met die antibiotica? Helemaal niks, ook niet na 2 maanden?

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Ik kan het dan ook iedereen aan raden en voor de meeste bijwerkingen zijn er genoeg oplossingen zoals vocht in brengende creme en lipbalsem.

Ben benieuwd wat jullie mening is.

Tenslotte heb ik naar aanleiding van deze discussie het volgende voorgenomen om te gaan doen:

- 3 extra hoofd/matras lakens aanschaffen, totaal 5, en zvm wassen
- meer zonnebanken
- elke avond/ 1 x in 2 dagen stukje hardlopen
- 2 liter water per dag
- proberen zvm gezond te eten (geen makkelijke opgave voor alleen wonend )
- huid stomen

Zoals je ziet hou ik het nog even op natuurlijke 'praktijken' aangezien ik voorzichtig met mijn huid wil omgaan, en alles z'n tijd wil geven.
ik had nog 3 vraagjes,

Je huid stomen; wat moet ik me daar bij voor stellen? pannetje met water koken, op de grond zetten en een kwartier boven hangen? (Hoe? ik kan me er geen voorstelling bij maken...)

Gezond eten, misschien moet ik daar in een ander topic/forum bij zijn, maar zijn er ook mensen hier die enige kennis hebben met goed/gezond eten mbt huid verbetering? Misschien iets wat makkelijk en ook nog lekker is en toch goed voor de huid?

Douchen, ik douche 14 keer per week, s'ochtends en s'avonds..... dit is gewoon ok? houd je wel fris... enne met scheren gebruik ik nog steeds telkens hetzelfde scheermesje, dit is dom hoorde ik, gaan miniscule bacterieen in het mesje zitten, en daarmee krijg je dus ook pukkels/irritatie... ? hebben jullie suggesties wat voor scheermethode?

Wouter

Ik heb deze kuur al is eerder gehad, maar moest ermee stoppen omdat ik op vakantie ging naar Spanje. En je mag niet veel zon hebben als je die antibiotica slikt.

Na een tijdje merkte ik dat mn acne weer terugkwam, en ben vervolgens weer naar de dokter geweest. Weer minocycline meegekregen, en Zineryt (poeder voor oplossing voor cutaan gebruik). Verder was ik mn gezicht 2x daags met dokter vd Hoog Facewash Clearskin. Ik moet zeggen dat het allemaal erg goed helpt.

Dat minocycline binnen een paar dagen werkt (voor je acne dan) is bullshit. Althans, bij mij zag je pas na anderhalve maand/2 maanden pas dat het echt veel minder was. Na 3 maanden (toen ik stopte met de kuur) had ik geen enkel puistje meer.

-alle mogelijke reiningsvloeistoffen zalfjes etc.
-benzac 5% 10%
-inderm (antibiotica)

en vervolgens ook geen resultaat hadden..... ga naar dermatoloog en waarschijnlijk schrijft ze uit zichzelf roaccutane voor... ik heb nog 2 mnd te gaan en had niet erge vorm van acné maar gewoon erg onrustige huid al 2jr ofzo... en nu glad als perzik.. alle side-effects vallen echt wel mee en die andere shit werkt gewoon niet(althans bij mij voor geen meter)

echt waarom nog langer aanklooien als dit echt werkt...? ?

groet

En trouwes, helpt veel water drinken nou echt tegen puisten? Voedsel schijnt geen invloed te hebben op acne of puisten

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Op maandag 20 oktober 2003 21:57 schreef GuitarMaistro het volgende:
Voedsel schijnt geen invloed te hebben op acne of puisten

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Het feit dat vitaminen invloed hebben op hormonen/enzymen en indirect op acne, geeft al aan dat voeding wel degelijk uitmaakt.

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THE GREAT CHOCOLATE STUDY

Article written by Jack Bullock
Copyright 2000 - All Rights Reserved

"Don't worry, chocolate doesn't cause acne." Various skin doctors must have told me this about 1,000 times over the years. As you read this I am sure you're recollecting about a few times that this has been told to you as well. Sad part is, it is not completely true. Sadder fact is that this 'claim' is used to back up the theory that diet doesn't affect acne.

Over the past three decades this 'story' has gained considerable popularity throughout the world. Most people who tell you this, including doctors, do not know the true story behind the study.

Without any further delay, let's dig a little deeper into the reason why this story has become so famous.

In 1969 three doctors (Fulton, Plewig, and Kligman) conducted a study that they claimed "proved" that chocolate does not make acne worse. This study was later published in the 12/15/69 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.

As I am sure you're aware, teens (and adults) everywhere jumped for joy. This study, in one shot, allowed the world to discard all the studies and observations of some of the finest dermatologists in the world.

Why? Two reasons. First, this was a very scientific 'sounding' article. Second, people wanted (desperately) to believe that this was true.

The chocolate study consisted of 65 subjects. The acne severity of the group ranged from mild to medium.

For 30 days each subject was given a control bar (candy). Team A received a bar of chocolate substitute while Team B was received a control bar with real chocolate.

At the end of the 30 day study, each subject was analyzed and the data was recorded. In the end their finding was that Team B did not break out more than Team A.

That's it! It did not decisively state that chocolate didn't cause acne. All it stated was that those eating chocolate did not break out more than those eating a chocolate substitute.

With a little digging, you'll find that this study may not have been the be all and end all in regards to chocolate and acne breakouts.

First, let's examine the control bar that was given to Team B. This bar was not your usual chocolate bar. It had NO BUTTERFAT. A typical chocolate bar contains over 5% butterfat.

Was this was due to hide the fact to which team received the real chocolate and which team received the placebo? I'm not sure, but we NEED to know that this was how it was.

Control Bar B had 46% chocolate liquor. This means that it would have had approximately 55% cocoa butter, totalling over 25% saturated fat.

Control Bar A contained 28% hydrogenated vegetable fat. The key here was to measure the viscosity of the hydrogenated vegetable fat as compared to the cocoa butter. This was not done.

Another important fact was that a subject was considered worse ONLY if he/she experienced a 30% (or greater) increase in acne lesions. Conversely, they were considered improved ONLY if the lesion count decreased by 30% (or more).

Interesting, isn't it? If you said "no", then check this out. Let's say you enrolled into the study and your face had 50 pimples on it. After 30 days you find that your skin now has 64 pimples on it. Well, Congratulations, according to the study chocolate does not make your acne worse. Are you happy?

The funny thing is, one of the doctors (Dr. Albert Kligman) running the study had stated that you will only see ominous changes in the skin within a 30 day period, and this is with a microscope. These changes would not be visible by the naked eye.

It would be interesting to find out (4) things:

1. How many subjects had experience a 25-29% increase
in breakouts, but were not considered to be worse?

2. If it was known (beforehand) that visible changes to
the skin would not been seen within a 30 day period
then why not have a 2-month study?

3. How many subjects continued to experience breakouts,
including those under the 30% study guideline, after
the 30 day study was completed (triggered by chocolate)?

4. Why wasn't there a Team C & Team D added to the study?
Team C would consist of acne subjects that would be moni-
tored with no chocolate but put on a modified diet. Team D
would consist of subjects that have clear skin 95% of the
time and only suffer occasional breakouts. Team D would
be given Control Bar B (real chocolate). The study would run
for (60) days. With this (2) extra groups added to the med-
ical study, we could easily pinpoint chocolate as either an acne
"trigger" or a "safe food" by comparing Team C to Team D.
(not testing chocolate bars against substitute bars).

As you can see, this study had some major flaws in it. However, because they had put together such a scientic 'sounding' article the world was eager to believe it to be true. Let's face it, who wants to believe that they have to watch what they eat or they could breakout?

Don't forget these were also mild to moderate acne subjects. This means that they were on a somewhat acnegenic diet to begin with. This study was done to see if chocolate made it WORSE... not if it actually caused acne. A HUGE point to remember.

So, next time someone tells you that chocolate doesn't cause acne ask them, "How do you know that?"..."Can you prove it?"

I hope this report "hit home". Use this information to empower yourself.

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Ok, well I originally goofed on my initial Accutane, Insulin, Puberty post http://acne.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=6079&highlight=insulin , but I am now about to correct that. ;-)

Truth is that Accutane is a bit of a paradox. It actually INCREASES Insulin Resistance while on treatment, but the effects usually disappear afterwards. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11747145&dopt=Abstract While on treatment you can get High LDL levels, poor glucose disposal rates, increased Insulin Secretion, and low SHBG. Wow, it seems to go against everything that we are trying to accomplish (clear skin) by going on these diets and medications etc.

On the other hand, Accutane still treats acne, but the effects are only during treatment (supposedly). Anyway, apparently it does so because the effects of 13-cis-retinoic acid (causes the above) possibly overrides certain aspects of IR, so that it can still inhibit DHT conversion in the sebaceous follicles, decrease sebum production, and slow skin cell shedding, etc. Therefore, it does still work positively along the hormonal aspect of the Insulin Resistance pathway. Meanwhile, Roche hasn't entirely figured this out:

"Despite important progress made in the understanding of the molecular action of retinoids, there is still a major unanswered question about the mechanism whereby oral isotretinoin reduces sebum production. Most evidence indicates that the antiacne effect of 13-cis-retinoic acid is mainly related to its potential to inhibit the production of sebum Among natural and synthetic retinoids studied in humans, only 13-cis-retinoic acid was found to suppress sebum excretion and to improve acne significantly."
http://www.sinacne-roche.com.co/estudios/arte.html hasn't connected the dots yet (isn't that odd?)

Yet, this article and several others explain why: http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Acne%20vulgaris.pdf
(page 4 talks about effects of 13-cis retinoic acid and IGFBP-3)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11880314&dopt=Abstract (nothing to do with acne but proves that retinoic acid increases IGFBPs)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9064277&dopt=Abstract (vit. A and it's role)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11404231&dopt=Abstract (proves that it depends on the form of Vitamin A as to whether a certain type of IGFBP hormone will be increased).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7518821&dopt=Abstract ( I think this is also a good one to read)

Of course, if you can't understand that, then this is my version of how Acne, Insulin Resistance, & Accutane all tie together:

OK, so you're at lunch and you eat something, lets say a SANDWHICH (meat, vegetables, grain bread), and it enters your digestive system where it's broken down. Now, depending on it's glycemic load, a certain amount of glucose will be available for your body's energy needs. This prescence of glucose will cause your pancreas to produce insulin to enhance glucose utilization and sometimes it will be a HUGE amount of insulin! Insulin works by binding to insulin cell receptors to allow glucose to pass through the cell. Now, if your body (cells, tissues) doesn't need the glucose, it will be converted into glycogen and fat for storage in your liver, skeletal muscle, adipose tissue, and skin.

Now, if your liver can NOT store the glycogen & fat and your cells & tissues will not accept the glucose then you have a problem. This is known as Insulin Resistance, which can later lead to Type I Diabetes (don't make enough or ANY insulin), Type II Diabetes (unable to use the insulin you do make), Heart Disease (due to high LDL cholesterol levels, free fatty acids), Hypertension, Dyslipidemia (lipid imbalance in blood stream), Obesity etc. all prevalant in most Western societies. So anyway, IR occurs because your cells are either too full of glucose or they don't RECOGNIZE the insulin you do have. As a result, you not only have all this extra insulin, but glucose, free fatty acids & amino acids floating around in your blood stream with no where to go....

Now, some of us do not have the same gene defects (read middle of article on CYP450 for specifics). Therefore the PATHWAY to this next part, is different for all of us depending on what our defect, or in other words, hormonal disorder is. Examples of hormonal disorders with acne as a POSSIBLE Symptom are Hypothyroidism, Hyperadrenalism, Insulin Resistance, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS)-Syndrome X, Hyperandrogenism, Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH), Hypercortisolism - Cushings Syndrome, etc.

So depending on the pathway, this extra or free insulin is going to cause your Adrenal Glands and Ovaries OR Testicles to produce the followingSteriod Hormones: Estrodial, Estrone, Progesterone, Testosterone, Androstenediol, DHT (5-alpha-dihydrotesterone) and DHEA (Dihydroepiandrosterone). These hormones in excess or in deficiency create your...hormonal imbalance.

Obviously, if it's in excess you know why you have the problem, but what about if you are deficient in a hormone (vitamin, enzyme, etc) right? What happens is that your body is looking for this hormone and if it can't find it, and is capable of making it, will produce MORE. At least it thinks it's producing more, but sometimes it's unable to produce the hormone and as a result, OTHER hormones get overproduced in the process.

The same thing applies to IR, if your cells don't recognize the presence of insulin (can't bind to cells), then your body keeps making more insulin, "thinking" that you don't have enough in your system. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how much your body produces or tries to produce of a hormone, because there is a problem in the pathway that makes this mechanism work perfectly. Therefore, until the defective pathway is FIXED, the viscious cycle will continue...or get worse (burnout, tumors, cancer).

One of the results of this would be testosterone conversion into DHT (a super androgen) in your blood stream and in your sebaceous glands & hair follicles. There are several enzymes responsible for this conversion such as, 5-alpha reductase, 3-alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, and 3-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase. As a result of DHT conversion, there's an increase production of sebum, skin cell proliferation, inflammation, etc. all thought to contribute to the production of acne in SUSCEPTIBLE individuals.

Does any of the above sound familar? Well it should considering that by now we should have learned that during Puberty, we ALL go through a state of INSULIN RESISTANCE! The only way our tissues can grow is if they become insulin resistant (IR). Therefore, IR increases the proliferation of not just tissue cells, but skin cells, etc. Now through your DIET you will accquire or overproduce IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor) and Insulin, both of which increase our male hormones. However they do this because we have DECREASED levels of IGFBP-3 (Insulin-like Growth Factor Binding Protien) and SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin). Both of which bind steriod hormones and growth factors that are responsible for the production of acne and certain other hormonal & health (cancer, tumors) problems.

Now, this is the pathway to which Accutane (13-cis retinoic acid) works. It increases your IGFBP-3 hormone which prevents IGF-1 from binding to the androgen receptors. In turn, this prevents the production of Androgen which means a decrease in the amount of DHT (5alpha-dihydrotestoterone) that will be converted in the sebaceous follicles. Furthemore, it also DIRECTLY prevents the conversion of DHT by inhibiting the enzyme (3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase) neccessary for this function.

So Vitamin A, Natural Accutane (program by which you create your own 13-cis retinoic acid), and Accutane are going to attack acne by INCREASING IGFBP-3. Which prevents IGF-1 from binding to androgen receptors, decreases androgen production, DHT conversion, skin cell proliferation, and sebum production. While various other medications, supplements (like the popular B5) and also various DIETs are going to attack acne along other Insulin Resistance pathways.

So if we continue discussing diet, then by avoiding certain problematic foods for YOU, like High Glycemic Load Carbohydrates, etc you can naturally INCREASE SHBG and IGFBP-3. Now, we already know what IGFBP-3 does by reading the above articles, and SHBG works by having a higher affinity to binding male hormones over female hormones in your system. In fact, in the presence of Estrogen (birth control pills), SHBG will be further synthesized in the liver, but in the presence of Insulin, it won't be produced and Obesity, Acne, Hirusitism, PCOS, Hypothyroidism, ovarian tumors, and enlarged prostates, and gigantisism can result.

Furthermore, just by lowering or balancing your insulin levels which HAVE been done through dietary changes and/or medications/supplements, you will also prevent the conversion of DHT by inhibiting enzyme (5-alpha reductase and 3-beta hydroxysteriod dehydrogenase) function, skin cell proliferation, inflammation, and sebum production. However, not everyone notes a complete decrease in sebum production, despite dramatic improvements in clarity. Which indicates that sebum production isn't neccessarily NEEDED to have acne. If you think about people with dry skin with acne and others with ingrown hairs, the problem isn't sebum but skin cell proliferation, poor exfoilation, and inflammation, right?

Of course that aspect can be controlled or prevented, topically anyway, by following a regimen similar to the "Acne Cure" I've been doing the Acne Cure for years now and I didn't even know it...lol. Using (gentle) acids and exfoliants on your skin is great way to help unglue the clogged pores (sebum helps here), and encourages faster skin cell turnover & shedding. Not to mention, taking certain vitamins will also enourage faster healing and skin cell shedding, which I guess is what makes an acne sufferer's skin different from someone that happens to just have "Oily" skin.

Now, I would like to clarify once and for all (LOL) that we don't all experience the same SYMPTOMS and that is also why Diabetics (type 2) and kids going through Puberty (medically defined state of Insulin Resistance) don't ALL get acne, hirsutism, etc. Symptoms can be external or internal and they vary WIDELY depending on what ENZYME/GENE is defective (usually somewhere on a CYP450 gene [link=drnelson.utmem.edu/P450lect.html]drnelson.utmem.edu/P450lect.html[/link] ) and they could occur at the age of 10 or possibly catch up to you in late adulthood. I guess that's what makes people feel safe and comfortable to do whatever they please DESPITE the scientific evidence behind it all.

For example, did you know that Insulin Resistance is not only genetic but can also simply be passed on if the Mother is in an state of Insulin Resitance during pregnancy? Perhaps that's why some kids have terrible problems that their parents didn't have. Of course, the research wasn't there 50, or even 30 years ago, but it is here now! So in terms of general good health, that right there is the reason we should be getting the Willett's Food Pyramid in 2004 http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0007C5B6-7152-1DF6-9733809EC588EEDF&pageNumber=1&catID=2. Thankfully, they have admitted that the USDA Food Pyramid was not based on much scientic research and may be the reason behind increasing Obesity and Diabetes rates.

Therefore, I understand one's skepticism and distrust, but you've got to learn to research and connect the dots for yourselves. For when you do, you'll discover that while there are MANY different ways to attack acne, there are also treatments in existence that are SAFE & effective, but were never fully publicized (like topical spironolactone)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2972662&dopt=Abstract and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2150020&dopt=Abstract . Nevertheless, the majority of the topicals, medications, supplements (like B5), dietary changes (allergic or not), and alternative methods (meditation, exercise, etc) b]all work on some hormonal level[/b]. As such, they are all attempting to either fix your homonal imbalance by Controlling your Insulin, by preventing the Conversion of DHT in sebaceous follicles, by preventing the proliferation of skin cells, or by reducing your free testosterone/androgen in the blood stream, etc. ALL of which could be caused by a lack of Insulin sensitivity or Insulin Resistance.

So once again, prolonged hormonal imbalances are due to some sort of lack of an enzyme, which explains why some people cleared when taking Probiotics, Digestive Enzymes or doing Liver Cleanses & Detoxes. Not to mention, that since most of us use treatments ranging from topical anti-androgens to Internal Anti-androgen medications, supplements, diets or exercise programs we have found ways to reduce, control or ELIMINATE acne (and other hormonal problems). Therefore, you must analyze your body's own "blue print" and depending on YOUR own external and/or internal factors and personal sensitivty level, you may need to use one or all of these methods to solve your problems.

Also, I am not ALWAYS entirely for dietary changes only. Not everyone has to do that. I believe that many factors (Environmental, External, Internal-Mental) are involved with acne and just because one is irrelevant to you, doesn't mean that it is for someone else. Unfortunately because there are NUMEROUS choices out here, at some point we have ALL chosen the wrong ones. The truth is, whether some of you like it or not, certain methods work BEST for certain people. Hence, one must know their body and understand just what hormones & enzymes are involved in causing their problems. Once they do that, it is easier to find a treament (natural or traditional) that will be more effective than anything they've done before. Unless of coure they simply GROW OUT OF IT, as I'm more often wondering is the case with Accutane...

If you don't know what is wrong inside, then you should discuss your problems & "symptoms" with your doctor so that you can be referred to a Gastroenterologist, Endocrinologist, Allergist, Nutritionist, Naturopath, or some other Specialist that will help you find out. For most of you this is, thankfully, only puberty (still suxs), but for others this can continue for several decades. While I know some of you tend to worry & overdo things, thanks to the angst acne can put us in, please note that it's impossible to eliminate ALL DHT or ALL sugar from your system and still function (normally). Therefore, when trying to find the connection for yourself, PLEASE don't obsess over avoiding every possible problematic food or give up too quickly. Remember, we are all different and our bodies will decide when we've done the RIGHT things, not us ;-) So, the sooner you find out the truth for you, the less hormonal and health problems you may have to deal with in the future.

Oh and one more thing, the reason it's Important to know how Accutane, the "greatest discovery for acne in the past 30 years," they say, works is because now we know how to implement this for ourselves. Now that we know how it relates to diet, we can take that information and find a way to increase those chemicals "naturally." So instead of orally taking 13-cis-retinoic acid or finding a natural way to convert this in our system, we can jump straight into what's REALLY doing the job. Remember, Accutane inhibits the actions of IGF-1 by INCREASING IGFBP-3! We already know that we can accomplish this through diet as well. Therefore, we need to eat right, take the right supplements, or find some miracle pill that will effectively increase IGFBP-3 at a safe level for us. Then we have the acne controlling effects of accutane, only permantly and hopefully without any negative side effects. Whadda you think? ;-)

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helpt Benzoperoxide ofzoiets, ook tegen puisten die zijn uitgeknepen en rode vlekken zijn geworden?ik heb een aantal rode vlekjes op mijn huid rond mijn mond. Als ik daar dat spul ( 5% ) op smeer, helpt dat de rode kleur te verwijderen??

Maar goed;..

Gewoon goed schoon houden, ben gezond gaan eten laatste weken (geen kroketten meer bij de kantine enzo), en sochtends en savonds eerst Eryderm lotion aanbrengen en daarna met een met water vochtig gemaakt wattenschijfje met een paar druppeltjes tea tree oil deppen op de gewenste plekken.

Gaat laatste week echt ineens een stuk beter. Zit nu vooral nog wat aan de linkerzijde van mn mond, alleen dit is morgen denk ik alweer half weg, als ik zo weer lekker ga slapen.

Good luck!

als je in de zomer naar een land kan gaan met erg veel zon: doen - en vooral veel gezond eten en hele dag in de zon liggen.. t resultaat is echt fantastisch ik hoop dat t me na de volgende zomer wel lukt om t goede resultaat te behouden (had ik me dit jaar ook al voorgenomen..:'( )

[Dit bericht is gewijzigd door Thunk op 21-10-2003 09:23]

Bedankt voor je tips

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Op donderdag 9 oktober 2003 21:09 schreef Crassus het volgende:
Zat effe te lezen hier... ik weet niet of het al genoemd is maar wat ooit bij mij echt wonderbaarlijk perfect hielp was modderzeep uit de Dode Zee. (Het échte spul dus, in Israel gemaakt) Ondertussen misschien on-line te bestellen?

effe offtopic: nooit vergeten dat je zelf altijd denkt dat het tien keer erger is dan hoe andere mensen het zien!

ach, de puberteit...

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http://leden.tref.nl/~ruthcos/acne.htm

Misschien helpt het. Ik ga het zelf denk ik ook eens proberen.

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Op maandag 20 oktober 2003 23:58 schreef tijgermans het volgende:

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Ik heb even op internet gekeken en een pagina met veel producten en behandelmethoden van dode zee mineralen gevonden: Dit is de link:

http://leden.tref.nl/~ruthcos/acne.htm

Misschien helpt het. Ik ga het zelf denk ik ook eens proberen.

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Benzylperioxide werkte bij mij verergerend. Ik kreeg er droge huid van, met dikke rode bulten. Nu na 3 weken is het langzaam rustiger aan het worden. Hopenlijk slaat de 'antibioticakuur' na 1,5 week een x aan...

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Op maandag 20 oktober 2003 23:58 schreef tijgermans het volgende:

http://leden.tref.nl/~ruthcos/acne.htm

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Op maandag 20 oktober 2003 23:17 schreef GuitarMaistro het volgende:
Ik ga naar Bali volgende zomer dus dat zal wel lukken

Bedankt voor je tips

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Op donderdag 23 oktober 2003 15:42 schreef Doagere het volgende:
roaccutane, ik ga er ook aan beginen morgen ff dokter bellen.

Ik word weer net als voorheen, aleen heb ik nu een vriendin en schaam me overal dood, als ik met dr ergens loop dan schaam ik me gewoon.
Ook in de klas enzo tis zo kut

Ik heb dus geen erge acne ofzo, maar wel overal puitjes... rode vlekken e.d. Zal het snel effect hebben?

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Je huid stomen; wat moet ik me daar bij voor stellen? pannetje met water koken, op de grond zetten en een kwartier boven hangen? (Hoe? ik kan me er geen voorstelling bij maken...)

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Door de stoom, gaan de porien openstaan, je kunt het nu beter schoonmaken.

Als je wattenschijfjes gebruikt ga je de 1e week echt schrikken. Na het schoonmaken zijn de wattenstaafjes namelijk echt goed bruin.

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Op donderdag 23 oktober 2003 17:02 schreef mabit het volgende:

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Philips heeft daar een apparaat voor, geloof dat het een vissauna heet. Is in principe gewoon een waterkoker met zo'n bak erop waar je je hoofd in legt.

Door de stoom, gaan de porien openstaan, je kunt het nu beter schoonmaken.

Als je wattenschijfjes gebruikt ga je de 1e week echt schrikken. Na het schoonmaken zijn de wattenstaafjes namelijk echt goed bruin.

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Op donderdag 23 oktober 2003 17:07 schreef MaStar het volgende:

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Ik gebruik watteschrijfjes, maar wanneer schrik je, als je het zonder stomen doet, of met stomen. Ik heb wel een keer gestoomd, maar toen begon ik zwaar te zweten, en zweet verstop de porien volgens mij ook weer. Hoelang zou je moeten stomen dan?

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Maar hoe bedoel je dat je gaat zweten? Als je gaat stomen moet je wel een handdoek over je hoofd hangen, en je gezicht wordt snel genoeg nat van de stoom dan.

Maar vooral met stomen worden de watten erg vies, als ik het een week niet heb gedaan. Zit natuurlijk wel een hoofd huidsmeer tussen, maar ook veel viesigheid

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Ow.. dus ik kan niet binnen nu en 2 maand van die puistjes enzo af zijn??

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goed schoonmaken +hoogte zon / zonnebank + veel water drinken

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Op donderdag 23 oktober 2003 17:27 schreef Doagere het volgende:
Ow.. dus ik kan niet binnen nu en 2 maand van die puistjes enzo af zijn??

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