[AMV] Amerikaanse politiek #491The Tragedy of Paul Ryan

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 21:46 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:
Nou, pak maar weer popcorn:

twitter:

mj_lee twitterde op donderdag 12-04-2018 om 21:37:17 NEW: Trump doorman Dino Sajudin releases statement: "I was instructed not to criticize President Trump's former housekeeper due to a prior relationship she had with President Trump which produced a child.” (via @soniamoghe)[ afbeelding ] reageer retweet

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 21:49 schreef Tijger_m het volgende:
En ook op politiek gebied is het treurigheid alom:

Trump wil terug in de TPP

https://www.washingtonpos(...)m_term=.9f5d56823163

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 21:52 schreef Tijger_m het volgende:

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De evangelicals zullen het wel weer goedkeuren, tenslotte heeft God gezegd "gaat heen en vermenvuldigd u"

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 21:53 schreef Szura het volgende:

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‘On our terms’.

Good luck, idioot. That ship has sailed.

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 21:54 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Als zijn deurman trouwens $30k heeft gekregen, hoeveel zou de moeder van deze liefdesbaby dan wel niet ontvangen hebben voor haar stilzwijgen + hoe zit het met child support??

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 21:54 schreef Tijger_m het volgende:

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Ja, het mooiste is dat de overige TPP landen nu met China onderhandelen om toe te treden ipv de VS. Precies waarom Obama zo graag de TPP wilde.

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 21:46 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:
Nou, pak maar weer popcorn:

twitter:

mj_lee twitterde op donderdag 12-04-2018 om 21:37:17 NEW: Trump doorman Dino Sajudin releases statement: "I was instructed not to criticize President Trump's former housekeeper due to a prior relationship she had with President Trump which produced a child.” (via @soniamoghe)[ afbeelding ] reageer retweet

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Trump, Mueller teams prepare to move forward without presidential interview (NBC News)
Monday’s raid on Trump’s personal lawyer upended talks for the president to sit down with investigators.

WASHINGTON — Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office and President Donald Trump’s legal team are now proceeding with strategies that presume a presidential interview will likely not take place as part of the Russia investigation, after months of talks between the two sides collapsed earlier this week, according to multiple people familiar with the matter.

On Monday Trump’s lawyers were discussing a possible interview with Mueller's team and had begun to hash out the final sticking points, including the timing, scope and length, according to people familiar with the discussions. One person familiar with the strategy said the president’s lawyers had over the weekend sought to expand his legal team to include individuals who would prepare him for an interview. Another person familiar with the matter, however, said preparations had not yet gone that far.

But the prospects for a presidential interview dramatically dimmed once the FBI raided the home, office and hotel room of Trump’s long-time personal lawyer, Michael Cohen on Monday, these people said. The president criticized the raid as out of bounds in Mueller’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election and possible collusion with Trump aides.

The president’s lawyers wanted an interview to last only a few hours, according to one person familiar with the matter. They also wanted Mueller to agree to write a report within at least three or four months after completing the interview, this person said.

SPOILER

Om spoilers te kunnen lezen moet je zijn ingelogd. Je moet je daarvoor eerst gratis Registreren. Ook kun je spoilers niet lezen als je een ban hebt.

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 22:18 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:
Persoonlijk vond ik de liefdesbaby smeuiger, omdat het mogelijk ook weer op misdrijven met campagnegelden zou zitten en de totale morele verdorvenheid van de man, maar op alle kanalen wordt dit nu naar binnen geblazen ... alsof Trump ooit wel akoord zou zijn gegaan door Mueller onder ede gehoord te worden:

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 21:53 schreef Szura het volgende:

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‘On our terms’.

Good luck, idioot. That ship has sailed.

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 22:19 schreef Szura het volgende:

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Nee hij heeft z’n stok gevonden om mee te slaan

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 22:22 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Dat ben ik niet met je eens. Die stok was m.i. sowieso wel gevonden. De advocaten stelden al bizarre eisen als dat Mueller akkoord zou gaan om enkele maanden na het interview het onderzoek te laten staken.

Kortom, was het niet deze stok, dan was het wel dat Mueller niet wilde meewerken, of dan was er wel in de tussentijd wat anders gevonden.

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 22:32 schreef Szura het volgende:

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Ja dan zeggen we toch hetzelfde?

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 22:18 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:
Persoonlijk vond ik de liefdesbaby smeuiger, omdat het mogelijk ook weer op misdrijven met campagnegelden zou zitten en de totale morele verdorvenheid van de man, maar op alle kanalen wordt dit nu naar binnen geblazen ... alsof Trump ooit wel akoord zou zijn gegaan door Mueller onder ede gehoord te worden:

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Two people familiar with the investigation said they expect a flurry of activity from Mueller’s office on the investigation in the next six weeks around the one-year anniversary of his appointment as special counsel.

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 22:46 schreef Kijkertje het volgende:

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Er wordt toch mooi een 'flurry of activity in the next six weeks' verwacht

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The April 23 TIME cover, depicting the growing chaos within the Trump White House, may look familiar to some readers: We asked longtime TIME collaborator Tim O’Brien to reimagine a cover he did for us just over a year ago.
 With his inventive style and fine hairline brush, Tim’s updated piece shows the rising water from the storms swirling inside the Oval Office.

“When I painted the ‘Nothing to See Here’ cover art, like many, I assumed the level of chaos could not last, that patriots on both sides of the aisle would step forward to control much of what transpired in the past year,” says O’Brien, a Brooklyn-based artist whose work has appeared on over two dozen TIME covers since 1989, covering subjects ranging from the Catholic church to Osama Bin Laden.

“As the never-ending flood of breaking news washed over the White House, and the firings, the scandals and the general mayhem filled each news cycle, I felt the storm metaphor was as relevant as ever,” says O’Brien, who used air brush, pencil, gouache and oil paint to create the piece.” “I mostly thought about how water would fill the space, how it would be transparent in some areas and reflective in others.”

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Comey: Trump asked me to investigate ‘pee tape’ to reassure Melania

By Ruth BrownApril 12, 2018 | 4:49pm

President Trump wanted James Comey to investigate the infamous “pee tape” allegations — to reassure Melania that he hadn’t actually paid Russian hookers to urinate on a hotel bed, the former FBI chief claims in his upcoming book.

“He brought up what he called the ‘golden showers thing’ … adding that it bothered him if there was ‘even a one percent chance’ his wife, Melania, thought it was true,” Comey writes in “A Higher Loyalty: Truth, Lies, and Leadership,” a copy of which was obtained by The Post.

“He just rolled on, unprompted, explaining why it couldn’t possibly be true, ending by saying he was thinking of asking me to investigate the allegation to prove it was a lie. I said it was up to him.”

The conversation took place during the same private dinner on Jan. 27, 2017, where Comey as claims the president demanded “loyalty” — and just days after the publication of an intelligence dossier alleging that the Kremlin had a tape of Trump paying prostitutes to perform the dirty deed on a bed once occupied by President Obama.

Comey says he warned Trump an investigation might “create a narrative that we were investigating him personally,” the former top G-man writes.

The president replied that he “might be right” — but kept asking him to consider the idea, and said he would as well, according to Comey.

Comey said he privately wondered why Melania might think there was even a 1 percent chance the allegations were true, claiming there is “zero chance” his own wife would believe such a claim.

“In what kind of marriage, to what kind of man, does a spouse conclude there is only a 99 percent chance her husband didn’t do that?” he writes in the book, which hits shelves April 17.

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In new book, Comey says Trump 'untethered to truth'

By CHAD DAY and JONATHAN LEMIRE
James Comey
WASHINGTON (AP) — Former FBI Director James Comey blasts President Donald Trump as unethical and "untethered to truth" and calls his leadership of the country "ego driven and about personal loyalty" in a forthcoming book.

Comey reveals new details about his interactions with Trump and his own decision-making in handling the Hillary Clinton email investigation before the 2016 election. He casts Trump as a mafia boss-like figure who sought to blur the line between law enforcement and politics and tried to pressure him regarding his investigation into Russian election interference.

The book adheres closely to Comey's public testimony and written statements about his contacts with the president during the early days of the administration and his growing concern about the president's integrity. It also includes strikingly personal jabs at Trump that appear likely to irritate the president.

The 6-foot-8 Comey describes Trump as shorter than he expected with a "too long" tie and "bright white half-moons" under his eyes that he suggests came from tanning goggles. He also says he made a conscious effort to check the president's hand size, saying it was "smaller than mine, but did not seem unusually so."

The book, "A Higher Loyalty," is to be released next week. The Associated Press purchased a copy this week.

Trump fired Comey in May 2017, setting off a scramble at the Justice Department that led to the appointment of Robert Mueller as special counsel overseeing the Russia investigation. Mueller's probe has expanded to include whether Trump obstructed justice by firing Comey, an idea the president denies. Trump has assailed Comey as a "showboat" and a "liar."

Comey's account lands at a particularly sensitive moment for Trump and the White House. Officials there describe Trump as enraged over a recent FBI raid of his personal lawyer's home and office, raising the prospect that he could fire Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who appointed Mueller, or try to shut down the probe on his own. The Republican National Committee is poised to lead the pushback effort against Comey, who is set to do a series of interviews to promote the book, by launching a website and supplying surrogates with talking points that question the former director's credibility.

Trump has said he fired Comey because of his handling of the FBI's investigation into his Clinton's email practices. Trump used the investigation as a cudgel in the campaign and repeatedly said Clinton should be jailed for using a personal email system while serving as secretary of state. Democrats, on the other hand, have accused Comey of politicizing the investigation, and Clinton herself has said it hurt her election prospects.

Comey writes that he regrets his approach and some of the wording he used in his July 2016 press conference in which he announced the decision not to prosecute Clinton. But he says he believes he did the right thing by going before the cameras and making his statement, noting that the Justice Department had done so in other high profile cases.

Every person on the investigative team, Comey writes, found that there was no prosecutable case against Clinton and that the FBI didn't find that she lied under its questioning.

He also reveals for the first time that the U.S. government had unverified classified information that he believes could have been used to cast doubt on Attorney General Loretta Lynch's independence in the Clinton probe. While Comey does not outline the details of the information — and says he didn't see indications of Lynch inappropriately influencing the investigation — he says it worried him that the material could be used to attack the integrity of the probe and the FBI's independence.

Comey's book will be heavily scrutinized by the president's legal team looking for any inconsistencies between it and his public testimony, under oath, before Congress. They will be looking to impeach Comey's credibility as a key witness in Mueller's obstruction investigation, which the president has cast as a political motivated witch hunt.

He provides new details of his firing. He writes that then-Homeland Security secretary John Kelly — now Trump's chief of staff — offered to quit out of a sense of disgust as to how Comey was dismissed, as well as his first encounter with Trump, a January 2017 briefing at Trump Tower in New York City. Kelly has been increasingly marginalized in the White House and the president has mused to confidantes about firing the chief of staff.

Comey also writes extensively about his first meeting with Trump after his election. Others in the meeting included Vice President Mike Pence, Trump's first chief of staff, Reince Priebus, Michael Flynn, who would become national security adviser, and incoming press secretary, Sean Spicer. Comey was also joined by NSA Director Mike Rogers, CIA Director John Brennan and DNI Director James Clapper.

After Clapper briefed the team on the intelligence community's findings of Russian election interference, Comey said he was taken aback by what the Trump team didn't ask.

"They were about to lead a country that had been attacked by a foreign adversary, yet they had no questions about what the future Russian threat might be," Comey writes. Instead, he writes, they launched into a strategy session about how to "spin what we'd just told them" for the public.

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 23:59 schreef Mike het volgende:
Hoewel ik graag sappige details lees over zaken die zich achter de schermen hebben afgespeeld, vind ik dit boek van Comey toch niet erg chique. Uiteraard wil je je graag verdedigen als je wordt aangevallen, maar het lijkt me dat dit boek er toch vooral gekomen is vanwege de financiėn.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:08 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Ik weet niet of ik dit met je eens ben. Financieel gezien gaat het boek natuurlijk genoeg verkopen om het financieel interessant te maken, onafhankelijk van wat Comey gezegd heeft, maar daarmee zouden Comeys motieven alsnog wel puur kunnen zijn.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:10 schreef Mike het volgende:

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Misschien hebben we hier ook gewoon een andere cultuur, maar je kunt je toch niet voorstellen dat hier een hoge ambtenaar een boek zou schrijven met alle details over z'n interacties met Mark Rutte.

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Op donderdag 12 april 2018 23:59 schreef Mike het volgende:
Hoewel ik graag sappige details lees over zaken die zich achter de schermen hebben afgespeeld, vind ik dit boek van Comey toch niet erg chique. Uiteraard wil je je graag verdedigen als je wordt aangevallen, maar het lijkt me dat dit boek er toch vooral gekomen is vanwege de financiėn.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:14 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Naast een andere cultuur, is het systeem ook echt heel anders. Rutte heeft niet eenzijdig de macht om het hoofd van de politie (Erik Akerboom. Wie? Erik Akerboom. Wie? Ja, echt, ene Erik Akerboom.... ) te ontslaan bv.

Ik denk dus niet dat je het goed kunt vergelijken .. niemand heeft hier eenzijdig genoeg macht als hun president... nog los van culturele zaken.

Edit: en nu ik dat type bedacht ik me dat het misschien wel de koning is die die macht wel heeft, grondwettelijk? Ik ben hier niet zeker van, maar mocht het iemand zijn, dan is hij het.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:23 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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De koning heeft geen enkele (politieke) macht.0.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:26 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Je verwart praktijk met wat er geschreven is, vermoed ik?

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:24 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:
Iets anders: berichten over troepenverplaatsingen en 8 doelen. Toch lijkt er niks te gaan gebeuren.

Of ben ik voorbarig in deze?

twitter:

K8brannen twitterde op vrijdag 13-04-2018 om 00:10:41 From two sources with knowledge of internal discussions: No resolution out of today's Syria meeting at the White House. reageer retweet

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:33 schreef Nibb-it het volgende:

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twitter:

K8brannen twitterde op vrijdag 13-04-2018 om 00:10:41 From two sources with knowledge of internal discussions: No resolution out of today's Syria meeting at the White House. reageer retweet

Draadje.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:28 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Nope.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:36 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Ok... ehm, ik ben geen jurist, maar om wat zaken te noemen:

Artikel 42 stelt dat de ministers verantwoordelijk zijn
Artikel 43 stelt dat alle ministers bij koninklijk besluit benoemd en ontslagen worden
Artikel 44 stelt dat ministeries bestaan bij de gratie van de koning
Artikel 47 stelt dat alle wetten en koninklijke besluiten door de koning ondertekend moeten worden

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:37 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Je bent idd duidelijk geen jurist (en dat bedoel ik niet eens lullig)

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Former coal lobbyist confirmed as No. 2 official at EPA (AP)
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Senate on Thursday confirmed a former coal industry lobbyist as the second-highest official at the Environmental Protection Agency, putting him next in line to run the agency if embattled administrator Scott Pruitt is forced out or resigns.

Senators approved Andrew Wheeler as the agency’s deputy administrator despite complaints from Democrats that Wheeler helped lead a fight by the coal industry to block regulations that protect Americans’ health and begin to address climate change.

The Senate confirmed Wheeler Thursday 53-45. Three Democrats — Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, Joe Donnelly of Indiana and Joe Manchin of West Virginia — joined with Republicans to support Wheeler.

Until his nomination by President Donald Trump last fall, Wheeler worked as a lobbyist with a client list that included Murray Energy, one of the nation’s largest coal mining companies. He accompanied Murray CEO Robert “Bob” Murray during a series of closed-door meetings to lobby the Trump administration to kill environmental regulations affecting coal mines.

“Andrew Wheeler’s coal credentials are without equal. He is, without question, a member of the coal industry’s Hall of Fame,” said Sen. Edward Markey, D-Mass.

“Sadly, I am concerned that Andrew Wheeler’s background means that he will never understand that saving coal is not the job of the EPA,” Markey added. “It is the EPA’s job to regulate coal to protect public health and the environment.”

Republicans countered that Wheeler, 53, is well-qualified to lead the agency, having worked at the EPA early in his career and serving as Republican staff chief of the Senate Environment Committee before becoming a lobbyist nine years ago.

Wyoming Sen. John Barrasso, chairman of the Senate environment panel, said Wheeler has demonstrated his commitment to sound environmental policies and has “exemplified excellence in his professional endeavors,” both in government and in the private sector.

In the style of his boss, Trump, Pruitt tweeted his approval soon after the Senate vote.

“Let me be the first to congratulate Andrew Wheeler as @EPA’s new deputy administrator. Andrew has spent his entire career advancing sound environmental policies & I look forward to working with him to implement President Trump’s environmental agenda,” Pruitt wrote.

Democratic Sen. Tom Udall of New Mexico had called for the vote to be delayed while lawmakers review Wheeler’s credentials, citing Pruitt’s uncertain status amid damaging ethics disclosures. His request was denied.

“The problem with the Wheeler nomination is if (Pruitt) goes tomorrow, Wheeler is in fact the administrator. And that’s a very, very serious problem,” Udall said Wednesday.

Sen. Ben Cardin, D-Md., said circumstances surrounding Wheeler have changed since the environment panel voted along party lines in February to advance Wheeler’s nomination. “With the cloud over Administrator Pruitt,” lawmakers are uncertain if they are voting on Wheeler to lead EPA or “be the deputy administrator,” Cardin said

Heitkamp, who faces a tough re-election in a state won easily by President Donald Trump, said she is confident Wheeler will “be open to working on issues important to North Dakota in a pragmatic and fair way. And I’ll hold him accountable to make sure he implements the mission of the EPA in a way that works for my state.”

Heitkamp and Manchin, who also faces a tough race in state Trump won easily, broke last year with their party’s leaders to vote in favor of confirming Pruitt, a former Oklahoma attorney general aligned with the oil and gas industry. Since arriving at EPA in February 2017, Pruitt has worked relentlessly to scrap, roll back and rewrite pollution regulations opposed by the fossil-fuel industry.

Maine Sen. Susan Collins, the sole Republican to oppose Pruitt, supported Wheeler’s nomination. “Mr. Wheeler has demonstrated that he understands the mission of the EPA and the role of Congress when it comes to oversight and accountability,” she said.

Senators asked Wheeler about the meeting with the Trump administration on behalf of Murray Energy during a November hearing. Wheeler acknowledged he attended but said he couldn’t remember any details.

Photos later emerged that showed Wheeler sitting at the table during an undisclosed meeting where Murray handed Energy Secretary Rick Perry a four-page “action plan” to revive the nation’s struggling coal industry. The Trump administration later carried out several of the recommended actions.

Like Pruitt, Wheeler has expressed public skepticism about the consensus of climate scientists that the continued burning of fossil fuels is the primary cause of global warming.

Environmental groups said the combination of Pruitt and Wheeler could prove devastating to the environment.

“Before the Trump administration, it would have been inconceivable that a coal and chemical industry lobbyist with a long history of hostility toward environmental policy would be the No. 2 at EPA,” said Ken Cook, president of the Environmental Working Group.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:41 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Je zei dat de koning 0 politieke macht had. Ik zei dat dat in de realiteit wel redelijk klopt (ofschoon ook hier wel wat op af te dingen is), maar niet met wat geschreven is ... vervolgens geef ik redenen waarom ik dat denk ... ik zie niet hoe jouw reactie daarop inhaakt...

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:47 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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En vervolgens kom je met de geschreven Grondwet aanzetten..

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:49 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:
Ok, tipje vd sluier "macht heeft de koning niet":
https://www.parlement.com/id/vh8lnhronvvr/de_koning

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:52 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Supertof stukje. Ik vind de tekst die je aanhaalt om je punt te ondersteunen wel raar ... " Macht heeft de Koning niet. Voor het uitvaardigen van wetten en besluiten zijn de handtekening nodig van zowel de Koning als een minister"

Ik haal hieruit dat de koning wel degelijk macht heeft.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:54 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Nee, hij tekent sowieso...

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:54 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Ja, dat is de praktijk.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:56 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Gast, verdiep je eens in het Staatsrecht ofzo..

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 00:58 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Verdiep je zelf hier eens goed in. De koning tekent wetten ceremonieel. We verschillen echt niet van mening hierover hoor. Je argumenteert alleen niet tegen het argument, maar tegen wat jij denkt dat het argument is.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:02 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Ik zie je geen redelijk argument geven tegen wat ik zei anders dan roepen dat het niet klopt en nu dat je jurist bent...

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:01 schreef westwoodblvd het volgende:
Jullie hebben allebei gelijk volgens mij. De koning heeft inderdaad formeel een politieke rol maar omdat de uitoefening van die rol geheel een formaliteit is, en er een constitutionele crisis ontstaat als hij die formele handelingen weigert te doen, heeft hij feitelijk 0 politieke macht. In dit verband is het verhaal van Koning Boudewijn en de abortuswet wel een interessante: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-koningskwestie.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:08 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Het wordt lastig om de koning uit te schakelen .. die wet zou hijzelf moeten ondertekenen... uiteindelijk vermoed ik wel dat zoals de vlag nu hangt dat regering en leger gelijkgestemd zijn en hij dan uit zijn ambt gezet wordt, maar de claim dat hij echt 0 politieke macht heeft is denk ik niet terecht.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:09 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:10 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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[Blijft argument-arm protesteren]

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:13 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Informeer jezelf gewoon eens ipv factfree te blaten...

Man, wat ben je irritant nu..

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:18 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:
Westwood en ik zeggen hetzelfde. 0 politieke macht voor de koning...

En ik geef en argumenten en links en hints.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:23 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:

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Je geeft je eigen en mijn standpunten niet eerlijk weer. We zijn beiden eens dat de koning in de praktijk geen politieke macht zou hebben. Je bent dus niet eerlijk aan het discussiėren. Succes er verder mee, ik ga slapen.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:22 schreef Nibb-it het volgende:
Gaap.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:28 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Best irritant dat er over dit soort elementaire staatsrechtelijke dingen een ellenlange discussie moet zijn idd...

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:25 schreef ExtraWaskracht het volgende:
Hm ja, AMV idd.

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Op vrijdag 13 april 2018 01:30 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Zegt degene die de discussie aanzwengelde en in stand hield...