Staatsgreep in Turkije #60

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 13:58 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Een scheiding van kerk en staat is een scheiding van kerk en staat. Die hoeft zich niet te manifesteren in de persoonlijke sfeer, totdat jij met je persoonlijke sfeer de straat op gaat. Uiteindelijk ben je hoe dan ook onderdeel van een gemeenschap. Daar kan je geen harde grens in stellen. Maar als je als ouder naar de school van je kind gaat, of je bent politieman, dan heb je daar al mee te maken. Als je een islamitische slager bent, mogen dan alleen moslims klant zijn? Daar ga je al.

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:05 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

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De claims van militante en bloeddorstige propagandisten, die je niet snel zou herhalen dus?

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:04 schreef Slayage het volgende:

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prcs dat is wat ik zeg. het is een wettelijk iets, die scheiding en niet te vertalen naar een persoonlijke scheiding

maar genoeg off topic lijkt me

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:07 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

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Een ieder naar draagkracht natuurlijk, Rutte zal het ook wel meer doen dan Micronesië voor zover zij al een bijdrage levert.

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:08 schreef Triggershot het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:17 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

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Turkije wordt ook een belastingstaat.

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:15 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

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Nou ja, ik heb een Mekka verdrag met KB gesloten en daar blijf ik trouw aan, aan zijn loyaliteit twijfel ik niet minder als individu.

SPOILER

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:20 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

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Aan de veda hutbesi.

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Need for transparency the main lesson from coup attempt, says ex-president

One of the most pressing lessons Turkey must learn from the failed July 15 coup attempt is the need and importance of transparency for a democracy, former Turkish President Abdullah Gül told the Hürriyet Daily News on Aug. 21.

As the former president of Turkey, who also served as prime minister and foreign minister in Justice and Development Party governments, how would you describe what happened in Turkey on July 15?

It has been now more than a month since July 15, when 240 people, the majority of them civilians, were martyred, more than 2,000 wounded were by a group of army personnel, parliament was bombed and cities across the country were terrorized by low-flying jets. The Turkish people immediately took to the streets, squares and highways and thwarted the coup attempt. In spite of the high polarization and deep political divisions we had witnessed previous to the coup attempt, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the government, the social democrat main opposition party, the nationalist movement and the pro-Kurdish opposition, supported by the trade unions, NGOs, business associations and media are now in full solidarity for democracy. Their multimillion rally on Aug. 7, where I was also present, was not only the grand finale of nightly rallies in 81 provinces, but was also a milestone of Turkish democracy, raising my optimism.

When you served as president of Turkey, did you ever see a risk of a coup d’état in your country?

When I was in office until two years ago, I had been asked several times if there was any possibility for a coup d’état in Turkey. My simple and sincere answer was always the same: “It was out of the question.”

I had never thought that, in today’s world, a group of military personnel out of command and control would dare to stage a coup in Turkey. I would have seen such a possibility as an anomaly. Yet, the coup attempt on July 15 proved me wrong to some extent. However, the immediate and spectacular failure of this assault on our democracy justified my confidence in my people’s wisdom in their protection of democracy. The failure of the plot also justified my trust in the maturity and strength of our democratic institutions: the parliament, political parties, media and civil society, which heroically resisted the coup attempt.

What was the reason for your confidence, or was this over-confidence?

The main reason for my confidence is the resilience of Turkish democracy; our democratic legacy that is more than a century old. This legacy had culminated in the popular success of the comprehensive political and economic reforms implemented since 2002 and during the accession negotiations with the EU with the purpose of upgrading and consolidating our democracy. Those responsible for last month’s assault on democracy failed to see this fact.

How would you portray and analyze those who were behind the coup attempt and their intentions?

The statements of the culprits and the documentation clearly signal that most of these criminals belong to the Fethullah Gülen movement. This group is a byproduct of post-Cold War traumas and vacuums. Although it [prevented] to be a civil society movement for decades, it is now apparent that it was originally devised to be a clandestine political organization and ended up spilling the blood of innocent people. This secretive organization exploited the atmosphere of freedom in Turkey. It abused democratic institutions, seduced and wasted thousands of innocent young people and took advantage of the naivety of some philanthropists, fuelled careerist ambitions and infiltrated state organs from the army to the judiciary and civilian life for Machiavellian purposes. They deliberately disguised all their wrongdoings under their so-called divine, superior, final goals.

What is the main lesson one should learn from this episode?

Out of the many lessons we should draw from this episode, one is the importance of transparency for a democracy. Traditional definitions of democracy need to be complemented and enhanced with an element of “transparency.” The democratic credentials of those who pursue hidden agendas in a non-transparent manner should be questioned. On the other hand, it is a vital duty for democratic forces all over the world to safeguard their credibility and solidarity against sly assaults on democracy. Democratic forces should be keen on not creating any political and ideological vacuums to be filled, or pretexts to be used by non-transparent structures poised for violence, be they religious-ethnic extremists, xenophobic demagogues or terrorists and criminals like the plotters in Turkey.

Any other lessons?

The experience of July 15 should also be a lesson to Kurdish political movements in Turkey to get rid of the yoke of the PKK [outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party], another non-transparent terrorist organization, and establish themselves as fully transparent and democratic forces.

How do you consider EU-Turkey relations after the failed coup attempt?

The coup attempt is yet another signal that Turkey and the EU should have continued the accession process sincerely. Therefore, we should point our fingers at those who blocked the membership negotiations between Turkey and the EU on the basis of trivial matters as well. If only they had ceased their short-sighted approach and let the process go on smoothly, this would have further upgraded Turkey’s social, political and judicial standards, including civilian-military relations.

Do you think that the disappointment expressed by the Turkish leadership at the positions of the United States and the Europeans vis-à-vis the coup attempt was justified or was it somewhat out of proportion?

Indeed, it is regretful that many of our allies and friends in the U.S. and Europe made a strategic mistake by failing to understand the situation properly. Many of them succumbed to subjective or secondary, if not irrelevant, elements rather than taking a long-term-oriented and strategic approach toward Turkey. Like many fellow citizens, I was also expecting our allies and friends to take stronger and more principled positions on the side of democracy and the elected government, in tune with the sentiments of the Turkish people in the streets resisting the plotters. Whether they are in favor or not of certain policies and practices of the current government, they had to reject the coup attempt without any hesitation.

This would have provided Western democracies with the necessary credibility and leverage to make their opinions, concerns or suggestions heard and responded to better in Turkey.

Is there a better understanding now?

I am now relieved to see that that many, except some populists or misguided politicians, are gradually rectifying their rhetoric, positions and actions responding to Turkey’s calls.

Of course, more is expected. U.S. Vice President [Joe] Biden’s visit to Ankara this week will be essential in this regard.

How will Turkey recover from the traumatic effects of the coup attempt?

An unprecedented atmosphere of national unity and reconciliation now reigns in Turkey as a reaction to the coup attempt. This should be followed by a righteous application of the measures required by the extraordinary circumstances in a lawful and proportionate manner. Such a new atmosphere could be an opportunity to conceive a refreshed vision of a more predictable democracy based on our universal common values and ideals. Doing so would place Turkey in the new orbit in the 21st century that it deserves. Once, and hopefully very soon, the measures required by the extraordinary circumstances fulfill their mission and normality is restored, a forward-looking approach should be adopted. A new vision envisaging a further upgrading of our democracy and freedoms, the rule of law, inserting more transparency and streamlining civil-military relations could be reflected in a long-awaited modern constitution with all the check and balances in place. A refocus on serious reforms in the economy and education and environmental, scientific and cultural policies at a national level should accompany a political recovery.

As a former foreign minister, do you think the post-July 15 circumstances will have any effects on Turkish diplomacy?

I am very pleased to see that Turkey is already benefiting from the new atmosphere to retake and energize her traditional problem-solving role in the region. This was actually the characteristics of AK Party governments with regard to regional issues, which are now more burning and urgent.

http://www.hurriyetdailyn(...)103080&NewsCatID=341
August/22/2016

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Turkey could become either more democratic or more authoritarian: CHP's Tezcan

While there is an opportunity for Turkey to evolve into a consolidated democracy, it is also at risk of sliding into authoritarianism, according to a spokesperson of the main opposition. ‘The climate of dialogue could lead us to more democracy, but we aren’t underestimating the risks,’ says Bülent Tezcan, a deputy chair of the CHP

The climate of dialogue that has emerged following the July 15 coup attempt could lead Turkey toward a consolidated democracy, said Bülent Tezcan, deputy chair of the opposition Republican People’s party (CHP).

But the risk of a slide into authoritarianism is there as well, according to Tezcan, who said the CHP was not underestimating the risks.

Tell us how the CHP is approaching the post-coup climate of dialogue.

We are approaching it in terms of a healthy democracy in which different views can be debated and where you do not have polarization.

The most important characteristic of democracy is to reach consensus within debates.

Turkey had entered a heavy climate of polarization before July 15. The polarization in politics prevented effective work; we were having difficulty at meeting on common points.

Politics turned into a platform creating problems instead of a platform to solve problems.

July 15 has proved to be an important turning point. The coup plotters hoped to make use of the polarization. Looking at Turkey, they saw half of the nation burning the bridges with the government while that government had declared the other half which did not vote for it as an enemy. The plotters thought there was an unbridgeable contradiction between the two and said, “If we were to resort to undemocratic methods, that other half will support us.”

They saw this polarized environment as a guarantee to their success. But both the government and the opposition stood against the coup, which disrupted the game plan of the coup plotters. The coup failed because of the culture of compromise.

Where is this climate is headed?

We said there are three phases after the coup, finding those responsible, normalization and democratization. We are hoping this climate will take us on a path where we can build a strong democracy.

If we cannot succeed in this endeavor, it will prove very easy to slide toward polarization again. In order to avoid that, we need to turn this climate of compromise into an opportunity in a very fast way by moving toward more democracy.

Can you tell us how the work is proceeding at the commission that was established in parliament?

We started work on a mini-constitution package. The main target is to reach a consensus on the judiciary. We have seen something during the work of the two commissions that was previously established on the constitution: when we try to go on prioritizing the points we disagree on, that takes us nowhere. Then we have to look where we can agree. What is the priority area? We saw that the problem of the judiciary is a burning priority.

I have to say that there is one party [pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Democratic Party – HDP] missing. All parties in parliament should be in this commission. But the opportunity is still not missed.

At any rate, we have the impression that we can reach an outcome. We have decided on certain principles. We want the parliament to be much more effective in the [composition] of judicial organs. We agreed on the need, for example, to have a system that will prevent the institutions in the judiciary from being divided into camps, a system that will secure the independence of the judiciary. Following the agreement on the principles, we will start working on the details and in the end, we will come up with a new HSYK [High Council of Judges and Prosecutors] and court system. We have started from an optimistic point and we hope to continue this optimism. But this optimism does not mean we are underestimating the risks.

Do you think the government seems to have taken lessons from the past? What is the reason for your optimism?

Looking at signs and dialogue, we see a sense of having learned from the past. But what will be the outcome of these lessons? Will we end up setting up a democratic institution open to checks or will that make the government more introverted? In other words, will they end up saying, “We shared the power with this group, who then turned against us, so now let’s not share power and just accumulate it in one hand.”
This process could lead to both points.

As of now, you can’t tell which way this process will go?

From the point of the mini-constitution commission, we have attained a common working language. But we would be making a mistake if we were to make our conclusions looking to just the workings of the commission. Look at the implementations of the state of emergency, for instance. From day one, we said there was no need for a state of emergency.

How is the CHP planning to continue from now on?

We want this climate of dialogue to continue. But that does not mean there is no room for debate. We said no to the state of emergency. But it passed through parliament. Now we are following the implementation. There are five decrees by the power of law [KHK]. Some of them stipulate permanent changes in terms of the structuring of the state, like the one on the army. These permanent changes need to be done by law, not by the KHK. We told the government that we were ready to provide support in parliament to talk about them. The restrictions on fundamental freedoms, long detention periods are not practices that are in conformity with the climate that averted the coup.

The KHKs need to be debated in the parliament. The government needs to cease seeking to make the changes it wants via the KHK.

Some might think that the government is using the CHP; it cooperates when it suits its interests and abstains from doing so when it does not.

Consensus building does not mean surrender. It’s not like we accept everything the government says for the sake of not spoiling the climate. In the past, there was a rhetoric of contention which made it difficult to meet on a framework. Today, the doors of dialogue are open. But we are not delusional. We are not underestimating the risks. There is a window of opportunity for this process to evolve into a consolidation of democracy. But there is also the risk of this process evolving into authoritarianism. We see mixed signals coming from the government. In the past, some governments have seen such crises as an opportunity for authoritarianism. The way to stop that is to keep the lines of communication open.

There is fear that the purges that have started against the Fetullahist Terror Organization (FETÖ) will also target other dissidents.

That’s why we underline the importance of the law. Another issue we underline is the state’s encouragement of snitching. Some of the practices could lead to a witch hunt. Sending your children to a specific school should not be sufficient reason to be the subject of investigation.

Do you think there is a currently witch hunt?

We feel that this is getting out of control. When you look at the numbers, you can’t say all of them are member of the terror organization. It might be too soon to say there is a witch hunt, but we are on a dangerous course; we see detentions just because of some social media postings. We relate our concerns to the government, and they do accept that there are deviations from some to time.

Do you think your criticism is having an impact, or is it falling on deaf ears?

We need to wait a little bit more to see the results.

Is your constituency happy with your compromise stance with the government?

It’s not just the CHP; the AKP constituency is also happy about this climate.

But CHP voters were absent from the so-called democracy demonstrations that have taken place throughout the month.

Everybody was on the street the first night, including CHP voters. But afterwards these demonstrations turned into rallies of a political party, so our voters preferred not to go.

There are rumors that some within the party are unhappy with the CHP standing next to the AKP.

Some might be wanting us to display a combative rhetoric. Some might want us to accuse the government over and over again saying, “It was you who joined hands with the [Gülenist] brotherhood; it was you who placed [Gülenists] in important places. Hearing that might please some of our constituency. But the issue is not saying what pleases [some people] but saying something that can bring about results.

What is your view about the Western reaction to the coup?

We expected a clearer stance. They should have first stood in a clear way against the coup and then voiced their concerns. Unfortunately, they first voiced their concerns and then voiced their stance against coups.

Why so?

They all have certain expectations as far as this region is concerned. Perhaps they waited to get a certain position.

What will your approach be? Are you planning to reach out to the world to explain your case?

Turkey’s orientation has been toward the West. This is not a geographical orientation; it is about modernization. Turkey’s Westernization will continue. We will be talking with our interlocutors and this is what we will say: Turkey is a democratic country, a country that wants its democracy consolidated. Turkey’s position within the West is not something that can be easily disrupted. We want to consolidate Turkish democracy and we want the support of the West.

Do you have some resentment or anger toward the West?

There is no sense in having emotional stances in international relations.

http://www.hurriyetdailyn(...)103083&NewsCatID=338

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Op maandag 22 augustus 2016 14:12 schreef Slayage het volgende:
hoe stop je een colonne pantservoertuigen? nieuwe beelden avond van de coup

https://www.facebook.com/trthaber/videos/1279897528695262/

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Op zaterdag 20 augustus 2016 15:53 schreef KirmiziBeyaz het volgende:

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Er staat niets nieuws in die cables. Vooral veel zorgen van Kemalisten die worden opgevangen door Amerikaanse diplomaten.

Ja, deze mensen zijn afgestudeerd van universiteiten van Gülen sympathisanten en zijn toen legerofficier, advocaat, rechter, politie-agent, schooldirecteur, etc geworden. Wat hadden ze dan na hun studie moeten doen, brood bakken? Met die zelfde gedachte zou je kunnen zeggen dat Kemalisten, Erdofielen zijn geïnfiltreerd in de Nederlandse samenleving, al zal het percentage bij de laatste groep wel meevallen.

Wil je zeggen dat de AIVD een stelletje prutsers is en niet weet wat voor soort beweging Hizmet is?

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Op zaterdag 20 augustus 2016 16:03 schreef KirmiziBeyaz het volgende:
Voor diegenen die Kadir Misiroglu serieus nemen en als bron aandragen:

Kadir Mısıroğlu: Shakespeare'in gerçek adı Şeyh Pir'dir ve kendisi gizli müslümandır :)

"De echte naam van Shakespeare was Seyh Pir en hij was een verborgen moslims"

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Op maandag 22 augustus 2016 21:03 schreef Bilge het volgende:

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Het AIVD-onderzoek werd in 2008 uitgevoerd. Destijds was Gülen hooguit een geheimzinnige man; na 2011 bleek zijn ware aard pas.

Gülenisten zijn idd heel erg hoog opgeleid. Bovendien zijn ze uit het goede hout gesneden. Ik vind het ook knap hoe jij je hier in je eentje staande houdt. Dat maakt deze oorlog tussen Gülen en Erdogan ook zo zonde. Deze is wederzijds destructief. Erdogan behaalt slechts een pyrrusoverwinning. Ik ben opgelucht dat Erdogan wint, maar deze oorlog had nooit plaats mogen vinden. Al helemaal niet op dit moment. Eeuwig zonde.

Ik hoop dat Gülen plaats maakt voor een nieuw gezicht. Als deze opvolger zijn excuses aanbiedt, de beweging transparant maakt, geen examenfraude pleegt, machtsmisbruik uitbant en zich concentreert op het kweken van een gouden generatie voor heel Turkije, is Erdogan wel zo pragmatisch om vrede te sluiten. Als dit niet heel snel gebeurt, zie ik het nooit meer goed komen met de beweging.

Ik ben razend benieuwd hoe jij de toekomst van Hizmet voor je ziet.

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Een rapport van de geheime inlichtingendienst uit 1971 meldt hetzelfde als Hüsrev Altinbasak.

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Op maandag 22 augustus 2016 22:24 schreef Capi het volgende:

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wat een naiviteit om een dergelijke beweging nog een nieuwe kans te geven.

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het was al minimaal 2 decennia bekend dat gulen en zijn sekteleden waren doorgedrongen tot veel instituties in Turkije.

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Doen alsof erdogan en de akp geen blaam treft is typisch het eigen straatje proberen schoon te vegen, de akp en erdogan treft net zoveel blaam om met deze organisatie in zee te zijn gegaan om macht te verkrijgen. maar dat hoor je akp'ers nauwelijks doen, die bagatelliseren natuurlijk de invloed van gulen die ze hebben aangewend

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 06:52 schreef nixxx het volgende:
Tegen beter weten in blijf ik toch bij elke nieuwe post dit topic checken of het grote onwrikbare bewijs nu eens geleverd is.

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 06:55 schreef ErwinRommel het volgende:

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Welk bewijs?

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 07:17 schreef nixxx het volgende:

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Het bewijs dat Gulen achter de coup zit natuurlijk.

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 09:55 schreef KirmiziBeyaz het volgende:

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Ik weet niet of je nu gewoon wat naïef bent of een grapje maakt. Inmiddels zijn we 60 topics verder, wat denk je zelf?

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 10:11 schreef nixxx het volgende:

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Ben niet naief, en denk ook niet dat het bewijs er is, anders was het al wel uitvoerig gepresenteerd. Misschien komt het nog, ik wil geen uitspraken doen over de persoon Gulen of zijn plannen. Ik constateer alleen dat er nog geen bewijs gepresenteerd is.

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Turkish consumer confidence increases sharply after coup attempt

Turkey consumer confidence rose by 11.1 percent in August from the previous month, data from the Turkish Statistics Institute (TÜIK) showed on Aug. 23.

The index was 74.44 in August, up from 67.03 in July, according to official data.

The index hit a six-year low of 58.52 last September, but has since recovered somewhat, even after the failed coup attempt.

Households turned optimistic about the general economic situation for the next 12 months, with the general economic situation expectation index increasing from 89.82 in July to 101.95 in August, according to the results of the TÜIK survey, made in cooperation with the Central Bank.

The household financial situation expectation index also increased by 6.6 percent compared to the previous month, becoming 94.19 in August.

More consumers also expect a decline in unemployment rates and they seemed to be less pessimistic about their saving prospects.

The latest figures were the highest since November 2015, following the parliamentary election, when the consumer confidence index rose to its highest level since April 2014, when it jumped 22.9 points from October 2015 to 77.15.

http://www.hurriyetdailyn(...)103143&NewsCatID=344
August/23/2016

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The challenge of convincing Europe on FETÖ

Europeans are having tremendous difficulty understanding the threat of the Fethullahist Terrorist Organization (FETÖ).

How can they not, when some of us in Turkey were shocked to see how far the Gülenists went in infiltrating the state?

I was personally not convinced when the National Security Council (MGK) decided to formally name the Gülenists as the “FETÖ/Parallel State Structure (PDY)” and declare them an armed terrorist organization in its meeting in May earlier this year.

“The PDY will be treated and tried [the same] as the [outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party] PKK,” President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan had said at the time.

I thought back then that the government was in a power-struggle war, not in armed contention with the Gülenists. It was like former friends now turned enemies settling accounts between themselves, with simple citizens just bystanders.

I thought it was an exaggeration to call the Gülenists a terrorist organization, let alone treat them as an armed group. I thought Erdoğan’s anger stemmed from the December 2013 corruption allegations.

This is most probably what the Europeans have also been thinking: “Erdoğan is angry not because Gülenists are terrorists but because they revealed the dirty business of the government and especially Erdoğan’s family.” Since he is by far the most disliked figure in the West, there was a sense of “well, he deserves it.”

And when the coup took place, no one in Europe could believe it. Let’s face it, we in Turkey thought the era of coups had ended. A lot of people could not believe their eyes, and just as some in Turkey (a tiny minority) thought the coup attempt may have been orchestrated by Erdoğan himself, many in Europe did not hesitate to believe the same. Saying the coup was staged by Erdoğan himself is as ridiculous as saying the 9/11 attacks were staged by the Americans themselves in order to attack Afghanistan.

The difference here is that Erdoğan became a victim of his own making. He has interfered so much in Turkey’s political and economic system (like weakening the independence of the judiciary, micro-managing the economy, oppressing the media and dissenting views) that he himself helped the creation of an image of Turkey as an undemocratic third-world country, where a strong leader can orchestrate a coup against himself.

Following their initial reactions to the coup attempt, which will be remembered as shameful, Europeans are now slowly realizing that Turkey survived a tremendous threat on the night of July 15.

But there are still suspicions about the culprits of the coup attempt. As a result, Europe should ask this question: How is it that the opposition, especially the main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP), which has never been on the same page as the government on any issue whatsoever, has not voiced any skepticism about the culprits? Have they heard any other theories coming from the opponents of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) pointing to anyone other than the Gülenists?

Even if Europeans become persuaded that the coup was staged by Gülenists, it is still going to prove extremely difficult to convince them that the current purge is not just about punishing the coup plotters but also about cleansing state structures of an illegal organization.

Erdoğan and the government already suffer from a credibility problem. Whatever explanation they make risks falling on deaf ears if the post-coup attempt purge continues in the form of a witch hunt, targeting those who have no link to FETÖ whatsoever.

http://www.hurriyetdailyn(...)103125&NewsCatID=412
August/23/2016

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 20:41 schreef Loekie1 het volgende:
Natuurlijk, alles gaat volgens plan volgens de Turken. Eerst Europa infiltreren met goedaardige, vredelievende moslims en die dan op een bepaald moment gaan vervangen door vijandige die de échte islam volgen. Net zoals met imams gebeurt.
De vraag is in hoeverre de Gulenisten het spel meespelen.

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 07:17 schreef nixxx het volgende:

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Het bewijs dat Gulen achter de coup zit natuurlijk.

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 20:54 schreef xaban06 het volgende:

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Tot dat Europa geen Europa meer is maar deel gaat uitmaken van het machtige Ottomaanse Rijk.

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 20:41 schreef Loekie1 het volgende:
Natuurlijk, alles gaat volgens plan volgens de Turken. Eerst Europa infiltreren met goedaardige, vredelievende moslims en die dan op een bepaald moment gaan vervangen door vijandige die de échte islam volgen. Net zoals met imams gebeurt.
De vraag is in hoeverre de Gulenisten het spel meespelen.

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 21:08 schreef Straatcommando. het volgende:

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Je denkt dus dat Gulen en zijn aanhangers plus Erdogan en zijn aanhanges dit alles voor de show doen en als gemeenschappelijk doel hebben Europa te koloniseren en islamiseren.

Oké.

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 21:09 schreef Loekie1 het volgende:

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Ik denk wel dat er een plan achter zit vanaf het begin af aan.

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Op dinsdag 23 augustus 2016 21:09 schreef Loekie1 het volgende:

Je ziet dat met imams hetzelfde patroon gevolgd wordt: eerst een lieve gematigde imam die niemand kwaad doet in een moskee zetten en die dan geruisloos vervangen door een haatimam.

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Turkse minister in Den Haag: 'We houden ons keurig aan mensenrechten'

Er is geen enkele reden voor Nederland om Turkije de les te lezen over mensenrechten. Het land opereert bij het vervolgen van de mogelijke daders van de staatsgreep op 15 juli binnen de kaders van de wet.

Dat zei de Turkse minister van Economische Zaken, Nihat Zeybekçi, vandaag bij een bezoek aan Den Haag, waar hij ondermeer minister Lilianne Ploumen ontmoette. 'Turkije is geen land dat gewaarschuwd hoeft te worden over mensenrechten,' aldus Zeybekçi. 'De coupe was een aanval op de mensenrechten waar wij juist voor vechten.'

Eerder zei dezelfde bewindspersoon tijdens een bijeenkomst in Turkije nog dat de daders van de staatsgreep minder dan honden zijn die zullen 'smeken om hun executie'. Volgens Zeybekçi zijn die woorden verkeerd uitgelegd. 'Ik wilde alleen maar zeggen dat niemand er voor zal kiezen om in een kleine cel de rest van zijn leven door te brengen.'

Minister Ploumen van Economische Zaken liet in een schriftelijke verklaring weten dat ze Turkije oproept de mensenrechten te respecteren. Ook heeft ze tegen Zeybekçi gezegd dat Turkse fricties niet naar de Turks-Nederlandse gemeenschap geëxporteerd moeten worden.

Zeybekçi reageerde verbaasd op dat statement. Volgens hem heeft Ploumen niet gesproken over mensenrechten. 'Minister Ploumen heeft gezegd dat ze er van overtuigd is dat Turkije binnen de kaders van de wet opereert.'

De Turkse minister hield zich ook op de vlakte over de spanningen in Nederland. Hij zei dat er volgens hem geen bedreigingen plaatsvinden tegen Gülenaanhangers in Nederland. Volgens hem zijn sympathisanten van Fethullah Gülen, de geestelijke die volgens de Turkse autoriteiten achter de coupe van juli zat, niet automatisch terroristen. 'Natuurlijk niet. Dat moet eerst bewezen worden door een rechter.'
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Turkije heeft zijn ambassadeur uit Wenen teruggetrokken om de 'betrekkingen met Oostenrijk onder de loep te nemen'. Dat heeft de Turkse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Mevlut Cavusoglu maandag bekendgemaakt.

'De coupe van 15 juli was de grootste terroristische aanslag op een democratie uit de wereldgeschiedenis. De perceptie in andere landen is vaak totaal anders dan de realiteit. Ik ben hier om aan onze vrienden de positie van Turkije uit te leggen.'

Zeybekçi zei er op te rekenen dat de relaties tussen Nederland en Turkije goed blijven.

De afgelopen weken toonden de EU en VS zich gealarmeerd over de mensenrechten in Turkije. In de nasleep van de coupe zijn talloze militairen, ambtenaren, journalisten en leraren aangehouden wegens mogelijke banden met de coupeplegers. Ook overweegt Turkije om de doodstraf weer in te voeren.

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European Parliament rapporteur visits CNN Türk to hail media's role in thwarting coup attempt

Kati Piri, the rapporteur of the European Parliament on Turkey, has begun her two-day trip to the country by visiting the Ankara office of CNN Türk to hail the role of the broadcaster on the night of July 15 in thwarting the military coup attempt.

"It's the first stop in Ankara because of what you went through here at CNN Türk on July 15," Piri said during her meeting with CNN Türk's Ankara bureau chief Hande F?rat on Aug. 23.

F?rat's interview with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan through the FaceTime application of her mobile phone in the critical hours of July 15 changed the course of the coup attempt, as thousands of people subsequently hit the streets to stand against coup plotters upon Erdogan's call.

"We're here to show solidarity ... to show that we care and to show that we very much support you in maintaining democratic institutions. [The coup attempt] was not just an attack on the government, it was an attack on the people, on the free media. That's the reason for my visit," Piri added.

She also visited Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek and a number of non-governmental organizations on Aug. 23. On Aug. 24 she will visit parliament and Parliament Speaker Ismail Kahraman.

The Turkish government has strongly criticized the European Union and other European bodies, complaining that they did not display genuine support and were late to visit Ankara in the aftermath of the coup attempt.

August/23/2016

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Turkije heeft de Verenigde Staten dinsdag formeel om uitlevering van de geestelijke Fethullah Gülen gevraagd.

Dat laat het Amerikaanse ministerie van Buitenlandse Zaken weten.

Het uitleveringsverzoek heeft geen verband met de mislukte staatsgreep in Turkije. De Turkse president Recep Tayyip Erdogan liet eerder weten Gülen te verdenken van betrokkenheid bij de coup.

"We kunnen bevestigen dat Turkije om uitlevering van Gülen heeft gevraagd", aldus het ministerie. Het verzoek van de Turken is gebaseerd op andere kwesties waar Gülen voor wordt gezocht. Het is echter niet duidelijk om welke kwesties het precies gaat.

De staatsgreep op 15 juli mislukte. Sindsdien zijn in Turkije duizenden vermeende aanhangers van Gülen opgepakt. Ook worden scholen, universiteiten en media die banden hebben met Gülens beweging gesloten.

Begin augustus vroeg Turkije al om uitlevering van Gülen aan de VS. Er werd toen in Turkije ook een arrestatiebevel uitgevaardigd tegen de geestelijke. Op 13 augustus vroeg de hoofdaanklager van Istanbul om Gülen in voorlopige hechtenis te nemen. De Amerikanen hebben echter altijd gesteld dat Turkije met bewijzen moeten komen.

Gülen dringt zelf aan op een internationaal onderzoek naar de gebeurtenissen in aanloop naar de gefaalde staatsgreep.

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Op woensdag 24 augustus 2016 00:30 schreef Slayage het volgende:

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waar de neuk haal jij je "informatie" vandaan meisje?

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Op woensdag 24 augustus 2016 08:18 schreef Loekie1 het volgende:

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Denk je dat zoiets geheim kan blijven?