Crisis Oekraïne - Rusland #203 Nog altijd geen oplossing

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 14:00 schreef Infection het volgende:

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Er wordt zoals altijd toch niets aan gedaan. Het hele MH-17 gebeuren is allang in de doofpot gedrukt.

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 14:22 schreef teckna het volgende:

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Nee joh, allemaal 'westerse propaganda' en 'de echte waarheid zal wel in het midden liggen' of 'nooit achterhaald worden' met als ultieme bewijs 'maar Oekraïne heeft vetorecht!' en 'bellingcat is een gast die vanaf zijn luie stoel propaganda napraat!'.

Het maakt ook allemaal niet meer uit wie wat waar, want het sprookje dat de daders voor het gerecht zullen worden gesleept is ook niet meer vol te houden. Nederlandse belangen in Rusland zijn gewoon belangrijker dan het rechtvaardigheidsgevoel van de nabestaanden. Kan ik verder ook prima begrijpen, het is gewoon een harde wereld. Maar had Rutte niet met zijn smerige grijns moeten zeggen dat de daders hoe dan ook terecht worden gesteld. Of je het er mee eens bent of niet maakt verder ook geen ruk uit, vanachter je computertje breng je toch geen verandering.

Anyway de propagandistische idioten zoals Dutchko, Zoa, Spiritus & consorten blijven gewoon in hun eigen sprookjes geloven en deze discussie is op nummertje #203 nog exact hetzelfde als in nummertje #17 met het enig verschil dat het Russisch verhaal nu al een aantal keer is aangepast naar nieuwe inzichten en de propaganda van de dag terwijl het westerse verhaaltje gewoon hetzelfde is gebleven op hier en daar een kleine correctie na...

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 14:52 schreef ZOA het volgende:

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Dat is waar .. Op 17 juli 2014 om half zes s'avonds was de conclusie getrokken.
Rusland heeft het gedaan.
Hoe dat gaan we nog wel verzinnen dmv 'kleine correcties' als b.v een Bukeenheid die half Rusland doorkruist naar Oekraine zo un ding afschiet en weer terugreist... en dan mij een propagandaidioot noemen

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Over five thousand people gathered Saturday morning in central Kiev to protest out-of-control utilities prices.

Walking up Khreshchatyk Street, one of the capital's central thoroughfares, protesters carried a variety of slogans, most of them focused on the drastic rise in utilities prices.
Along with Ukrainian flags, protesters also carried a number of posters and banners. Among them was a poster stating that Prime Minister "Yatsenyuk means poverty for Ukraine." Another read "Don't know how to work? Go work as a salesman for Roshen," referring to President Petro Poroshenko's chocolate empire. Another poster featured the phrase 'Mafia go AWAY'. One protester carried a caricature of a man in a barren apartment preparing to hang himself with a loop made out of a hot water pipe.

On May 1, cold and hot water rates grew by 71 percent, while a month earlier, on April 1, gas rates skyrocketed upwards by 285 percent. Ukrainians have been protesting the country's parliament in recent weeks over comments suggesting that the upward revision has yet to be completed.

With wages and pensions frozen and the hryvnia facing a massive devaluation over the past year while tariffs have continued their upward climb, Ukrainian media reported as far back as January that nearly 30 percent of Ukrainians couldn't pay their utility bills. In 2014, utilities rates grew by 35 percent, while prices for transport, medicines and food have grown between 50-200 percent.

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 16:40 schreef Dance99Vv het volgende:
Weinig nieuws van het front zo te zien.

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 16:46 schreef reza1 het volgende:
Thousands March in Kiev Against Soaring Utilities Rates

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 16:47 schreef DUTCHKO het volgende:

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Tja en DAAR gaat het om beste kijkbuiskinderen.
Schaamteloos je zakken vullen over andermans rug en ellende...

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 17:26 schreef Nintex het volgende:
Gek hè dat alles zo duur wordt als je economie per kwartaal 10/12% krimpt en je 20% van je landoppervlak kwijt bent en je de andere 80% met man en macht moet verdedigen.

De Russen hebben er voor gezorgd dat Oekraïne minimaal de komende 20 jaar een armzalig land blijft.

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 17:26 schreef Nintex het volgende:
Gek hè dat alles zo duur wordt als je economie per kwartaal 10/12% krimpt en je 20% van je landoppervlak kwijt bent en je de andere 80% met man en macht moet verdedigen.

De Russen hebben er voor gezorgd dat Oekraïne minimaal de komende 20 jaar een armzalig land blijft.

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 17:38 schreef DonJames het volgende:
Misschien meer iets voor TRV, maar is onlangs iemand van jullie nog in Kiev geweest?

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On Friday, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko officially signed a series of laws outlawing communism, while simultaneously recognizing the veterans of the Nazi collaborationist Ukrainian Insurgent Army as fighters for the independence of Ukraine.

The controversial set of bills, which were approved by Ukraine's parliament last month, consists of four parts, including a formal condemnation of the Soviet communist regime, a ban on Soviet and communist symbols, the declassification of Soviet secret police archives, and recognition of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army and other wartime ultranationalist organizations as freedom fighters. In a slight to the country's six million Red Army veterans, the documents also include a law rejecting the term "Great Patriotic War," used among Soviet successor states to refer to the 1941-1945 conflict between the Third Reich and the Soviet Union, and replacing it with the "Second World War."
Laws Either Contradictory or Highly Cynical
Formally, the law condemning communism equates the ideology and its symbols with Nazism. In this way, it pays lip service to initiatives launched several years earlier by lawmakers in several other Eastern European countries. However, given its place among a package of bills which also glorify Nazi collaborationist 'fighters for independence', the attempt to outlaw communist ideology through a declaration of its moral equivalency with Nazism seems contradictory at best, and outright cynical at worst.

The Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, Western Ukrainian territorial militia which actively collaborated with Nazi Germany even before the onset of the Second World War, were known for their genocidal policies in areas under their control during the war. UPA has been documented as having been involved in the massacre of up to 120,000 ethnic Poles in Volyn and Galicia, as well as the murder of tens of thousands of Jews, Russians, and 'Russophile' Ukrainians.
Given post-Maidan Kiev's attempts to rewrite the history of OUN-UPA as an Allied force in the fight against Nazi Germany, Poroshenko's signing of the bill glorifying the group has also provided authorities with the legal mandate to make challenging such a claim punishable by law. This was confirmed by Poroshenko's press service, which noted in its commentary on the passage of the decommunization laws that the president also intends to introduce a bill to Ukraine's parliament aimed at further "toughening the standards of liability" for challenging the memorialization of Ukrainian fighters for independence.

Recently commenting on the law glorifying OUN-UPA in an article published by the Jerusalem Post, journalist Josh Cohen has stated that "in addition to the moral problem of forbidding the criticism of Holocaust perpetrators, the law hinders Ukraine's European ambitions –and validates Russian President Vladimir Putin's claims that the country is overrun by neo-Nazis." Pointing out that the ideological descendants of the OUN-UPA played a crucial role in the Maidan coup, Cohen also notes that now, unfortunately, many of the country's top posts, ministries, and institutions are overrun by radical ultranationalists.

Amid the debate which followed the Ukrainian parliament's decision to 'ban communism' last month, commentators, Ukrainian and Russian alike, have pointed out the odd bitterness and fanaticism with which the Rada has chosen to struggle against the 'dead' ideology, which has been a relic of history in Europe for nearly a quarter of a century. The Ukrainian Communist Party itself has not played a major political role in the country since last year; before then it had long served as the country's third parliamentary party. First hounded and publically beaten by nationalist militants, communists later faced lustration from administrative posts, and were finally kicked out of parliament by presidential decree ahead of snap parliamentary elections in October. The party has since faced dozens of attempts to have its activity banned outright, and is not believed to pose any significant political threat to Kiev.
The idea promoted by some among the Kiev political elite, that the ban on communism is related more to a struggle against a 'Russian ideology', also falls flat on its face, given that Russia too rejected the communist ideology, and because Ukrainian communists played a key role in the construction and advancement of the Soviet system. Ethnic Ukrainians Nikita Khrushchev and Leonid Brezhnev lead the country for over twenty years, after all.
The Ukrainian parliament's anti-communist witch hunt has led to fears that the ban would target not only public symbols of Soviet power, but also less visible but no less important symbols, including veterans' medals. Moreover, critics have commented on the expensive bureaucratic nightmare that the proposal is set to unleash. With literally thousands of city, town, village and street names slated for being renamed, and tens of thousands of communist symbols earmarked to be removed from buildings, monuments, gates and facades, the campaign is projected to cost the country's cash-strapped budget billions of hryvnia. Moreover, once streets are renamed, an estimated two million people, businesses and public organizations will have to line up in government offices to have their documents changed.

Envisioning the massive bureaucratic headache to result from the law, several MPs from the country's governing coalition began reinterpreting the laws' basic provisions just days after parliament passed them, stating that they carry an 'advisory character'. With the decommunization package having been signed by the president, only time will tell whether Ukraine will 'put its money where its mouth is', and carry through with the expensive, pointless campaign.
Last month, political scientist Vadim Karacev told Ukrainian news hub Vesti that the laws on decommunization will serve only to further weaken the Maidan authorities' political influence in the south and east of the country. Josh Cohen argues that that the laws will definitely serve to split "eastern and western Ukrainians," who "already possess widely diverging views on recent political events such as the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Maidan revolution." As for the law glorifying OUN-UPA fighters, Cohen argues that the law will only serve to "exacerbate these regional differences," with "Eastern Ukrainians…viewing these groups as Nazi collaborators to be feared and condemned rather than celebrated."

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 17:44 schreef DUTCHKO het volgende:

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Mail deze gasten maar ff...
http://www.globalresearch(...)rd-usa-today/5436103

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 17:38 schreef DonJames het volgende:
Misschien meer iets voor TRV, maar is onlangs iemand van jullie nog in Kiev geweest?

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 23:28 schreef BEFEM het volgende:

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Ik

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 23:29 schreef crashbangboom het volgende:

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En, nog wat leuks gezien 'op vakantie' ?

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Op zondag 17 mei 2015 00:53 schreef crystal_meth het volgende:
Putin says Ukraine being overrun by fascists - and he may be right

http://www.jpost.com/Inte(...)-may-be-right-403205

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Op zaterdag 16 mei 2015 17:47 schreef reza1 het volgende:
The Big Lie Behind Ukraine's Communism-Free Future

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Op zondag 17 mei 2015 22:39 schreef icecreamfarmer_NL het volgende:

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Niet dat ik nu zo'n voorstander ben van dit soort zaken maar bijna elke onafhankelijkheids strijd gaat samen met dingen die het daglicht kunnen verdragen. Onze Willem van oranje heeft in het katholieke zuiden ook flink huisgehouden.
Het zelfde met de diverse verzetsgroepen in heel Europa tijdens wo2. Nog hadden de joden het zo fijn in Rusland.

Dan nog lijkt het mij niet verstandig om dit soort figuren te gaan verheerlijken.