NWS Nieuws & Achtergronden
Discussieer hier diepgaander over de actualiteiten.
The game playing in Greece gets curiouser and curiouser.
German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble went on TV saying the only way Greece can get a haircut is if it leaves the Eurozone.
The IMF reiterated that Greece will not be able to make its payments.
Greece insists the IMF is wrong, yet it wants credit relief.
The Financial Times reports Greeks Escalate Bailout Divisions by Lashing out at ‘Misleading’ IMF Report.
Greece’s finance minister has lashed out at the International Monetary Fund’s “misleading” analysis of the country’s economic health and debt trajectory, intensifying a rift between Athens and the Fund over its involvement in the country’s three-year bailout programme.
Responding to the IMF’s 91-page healthcheck of the Greek economy, Syriza’s Euclid Tsakalotos said the analysis gave an unfair and “insufficient” account of reform efforts undertaken by the left-wing government since the summer of 2015.
Mr Tsakalotos said the “overly pessimistic” account led the Fund to a wrong-headed assessment of the country’s debt dynamics, which the report says could reach “explosive” proportions above 200 per cent of GDP without major debt relief or bolder spending cuts and reforms.
Greece wants the IMF out of the troika so why does it insist its debt is sustainable? It makes no sense. If its debt was sustainable, the IMF would stay in.
The IMF provided this comparison of Greece vs. the Great Depression.
Greece does not want the IMF in the troika but if the IMF leaves, Germany is set to pull the plug. There is obviously some sort of game here, but it is logically impossible for Greece to hold the conflicting positions it has.
The IMF is due to deliver a major decision on whether it will contribute to the country’s ¤86bn bailout when finance ministers meet in Brussels later this month.
Had Greece warmed up to the IMF, it could have blamed Germany and the IMF. Logically all it can do now is blame itself.
================================
Forbes: ‘Greece has defaulted on its external sovereign debt obligations at least five previous times in the modern era (1826, 1843, 1860, 1894 and 1932)…. [totalling] 90 years
En nu dus weer.
German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble went on TV saying the only way Greece can get a haircut is if it leaves the Eurozone.
The IMF reiterated that Greece will not be able to make its payments.
Greece insists the IMF is wrong, yet it wants credit relief.
The Financial Times reports Greeks Escalate Bailout Divisions by Lashing out at ‘Misleading’ IMF Report.
Greece’s finance minister has lashed out at the International Monetary Fund’s “misleading” analysis of the country’s economic health and debt trajectory, intensifying a rift between Athens and the Fund over its involvement in the country’s three-year bailout programme.
Responding to the IMF’s 91-page healthcheck of the Greek economy, Syriza’s Euclid Tsakalotos said the analysis gave an unfair and “insufficient” account of reform efforts undertaken by the left-wing government since the summer of 2015.
Mr Tsakalotos said the “overly pessimistic” account led the Fund to a wrong-headed assessment of the country’s debt dynamics, which the report says could reach “explosive” proportions above 200 per cent of GDP without major debt relief or bolder spending cuts and reforms.
Greece wants the IMF out of the troika so why does it insist its debt is sustainable? It makes no sense. If its debt was sustainable, the IMF would stay in.
The IMF provided this comparison of Greece vs. the Great Depression.
Greece does not want the IMF in the troika but if the IMF leaves, Germany is set to pull the plug. There is obviously some sort of game here, but it is logically impossible for Greece to hold the conflicting positions it has.
The IMF is due to deliver a major decision on whether it will contribute to the country’s ¤86bn bailout when finance ministers meet in Brussels later this month.
Had Greece warmed up to the IMF, it could have blamed Germany and the IMF. Logically all it can do now is blame itself.
================================
Forbes: ‘Greece has defaulted on its external sovereign debt obligations at least five previous times in the modern era (1826, 1843, 1860, 1894 and 1932)…. [totalling] 90 years
En nu dus weer.
Deze is wel leuk van de FT
Solidarity with Greece will render its debt sustainable
IMF analysis ignores what sets eurozone members apart from other countries
Klaus Regling
The Greek economy outperformed expectations in 2016 with a higher than anticipated growth rate
Greece has been under financial assistance programmes for almost seven years. There have been delays, concerns and real drama that brought the country close to leaving the eurozone. There has also been a lot of progress in making the Greek economy more competitive. But for many, Greece remains synonymous with bad news. Few were surprised, therefore, when the International Monetary Fund recently stated that the country’s debt was on an explosive trajectory.
A sober look at the facts shows that Greece’s debt situation does not have to be cause for alarm. The European Financial Stability Facility and the European Stability Mechanism, the eurozone’s rescue funds, have disbursed ¤174bn to Greece. We would not have lent this amount if we did not think we would get our money back.
Much has already happened to ease the country’s debt burden. Both public and private creditors have made unprecedented efforts to keep Greece’s debt sustainable. No other country in the world has ever received greater debt reduction. In 2012, private investors took a haircut on their holdings, scrapping ¤107bn in loans from Greece’s books.
Then, public creditors eased lending conditions significantly. This reduced the economic value of the country’s debt by around 40 per cent. As a result, Greece enjoys budgetary savings of about ¤8bn annually — the equivalent of about 4.5 per cent of gross domestic product — and will continue to do so for years to come. This does not lead to budgetary cost for European taxpayers. However, they do take on risks.
As a result, the actual cost to Greece of servicing its debt is among the lowest in Europe and will remain so for a long time. Its gross financing needs will drop in the coming years and fall well below those of most other eurozone countries by 2020. The recent short-term debt relief measures taken by the ESM will also help. If the agreed reform programme is fully implemented, debt sustainability is within reach.
Why does the IMF come to a different conclusion? The fund has so far not been able to integrate into its analysis of Greece fundamental factors that set a member of the eurozone apart from other countries in the world.
The ESM provides very long-term loans at exceptionally favourable conditions. In May 2016, Greece’s eurozone partners pledged additional debt relief at the end of the ESM programme in mid-2018, should there be a need for it. And in the long term, they have committed to even more help, provided that Greece sticks to its side of the bargain. It is hard to overestimate the significance of this pledge, made by the finance ministers of the eurozone. Solidarity with Greece will continue.
Countries outside the eurozone cannot rely on such assurances. Once IMF disbursements end, they are on their own. In those cases, the fund is right to insist that debt sustainability is assured early. But in Greece, the ESM will hold two-thirds of Greek debt for at least another 30 years. As a result, the IMF’s shorter time horizon is not appropriate. Also, the fund ignores the pledge made by Greece’s eurozone partners.
The solution for Greece lies not in additional debt relief, but in the government implementing reforms so as to avoid delays in the issuing of the next tranche of the ESM loan. Investors understand the ESM framework and recognise the commitments of Greece’s European partners. Past experience shows that making loans in exchange for reforms works. It is no coincidence that Ireland and Spain today have some of the highest growth rates in Europe and very low funding costs after successfully completing rescue loan programmes with demanding reforms.
In 2016, even Greece outperformed expectations, with a higher than anticipated growth rate and a primary surplus. Further delays could put this positive trend at risk.
The writer is managing director of the European Stability Mechanism
==========================================
Het eerste commentaar is golden.
Are you serious Klaus? I am sure such silly analysis did not get you to where you are now or perhaps it is exactly this ability to try and obfuscate an issue when it suits your needs that got you becoming the MD at ESN.
Let me try and understand the numerical parts of your argument here - a sober look at the facts - as you say :
1. EUR 107 bln scrapped by private sector
2. 40% reduction in the economic value of debt by public sector
3. Annual budgetary savings of EUR 8 billion which is 4.5% of GDP
4. Actual debt servicing cost is among the lowest in Europe and gross financing needs will continue to drop.
Awesome facts, thank you - but do any of them matter? I think not, the ones that do matter are -
A) how much surplus does Greece expect to make over the over the next 30 years
B) what does that surplus do to the debts over the next 30 years
You quite conveniently skip these basic facts?
IMF have announced their views in a loud and clear manner - there are few surpluses and hence an explosive growth in debt.
I think you can save a lot of words here and simply state your position - while IMF expects x, we expect y and hence expect our debts to be repaid.
Please do stick your neck out further so you can claim to be the superhero when your debts are paid back, not only were you a maverick in lending EUR 174 bln of taxpayers money, you had the foresight in Feb 2017 to forecast the rosy future that lies ahead for Greece, but should Greece default/ haircut the principal, people know whose neck to chop
Solidarity with Greece will render its debt sustainable
IMF analysis ignores what sets eurozone members apart from other countries
Klaus Regling
The Greek economy outperformed expectations in 2016 with a higher than anticipated growth rate
Greece has been under financial assistance programmes for almost seven years. There have been delays, concerns and real drama that brought the country close to leaving the eurozone. There has also been a lot of progress in making the Greek economy more competitive. But for many, Greece remains synonymous with bad news. Few were surprised, therefore, when the International Monetary Fund recently stated that the country’s debt was on an explosive trajectory.
A sober look at the facts shows that Greece’s debt situation does not have to be cause for alarm. The European Financial Stability Facility and the European Stability Mechanism, the eurozone’s rescue funds, have disbursed ¤174bn to Greece. We would not have lent this amount if we did not think we would get our money back.
Much has already happened to ease the country’s debt burden. Both public and private creditors have made unprecedented efforts to keep Greece’s debt sustainable. No other country in the world has ever received greater debt reduction. In 2012, private investors took a haircut on their holdings, scrapping ¤107bn in loans from Greece’s books.
Then, public creditors eased lending conditions significantly. This reduced the economic value of the country’s debt by around 40 per cent. As a result, Greece enjoys budgetary savings of about ¤8bn annually — the equivalent of about 4.5 per cent of gross domestic product — and will continue to do so for years to come. This does not lead to budgetary cost for European taxpayers. However, they do take on risks.
As a result, the actual cost to Greece of servicing its debt is among the lowest in Europe and will remain so for a long time. Its gross financing needs will drop in the coming years and fall well below those of most other eurozone countries by 2020. The recent short-term debt relief measures taken by the ESM will also help. If the agreed reform programme is fully implemented, debt sustainability is within reach.
Why does the IMF come to a different conclusion? The fund has so far not been able to integrate into its analysis of Greece fundamental factors that set a member of the eurozone apart from other countries in the world.
The ESM provides very long-term loans at exceptionally favourable conditions. In May 2016, Greece’s eurozone partners pledged additional debt relief at the end of the ESM programme in mid-2018, should there be a need for it. And in the long term, they have committed to even more help, provided that Greece sticks to its side of the bargain. It is hard to overestimate the significance of this pledge, made by the finance ministers of the eurozone. Solidarity with Greece will continue.
Countries outside the eurozone cannot rely on such assurances. Once IMF disbursements end, they are on their own. In those cases, the fund is right to insist that debt sustainability is assured early. But in Greece, the ESM will hold two-thirds of Greek debt for at least another 30 years. As a result, the IMF’s shorter time horizon is not appropriate. Also, the fund ignores the pledge made by Greece’s eurozone partners.
The solution for Greece lies not in additional debt relief, but in the government implementing reforms so as to avoid delays in the issuing of the next tranche of the ESM loan. Investors understand the ESM framework and recognise the commitments of Greece’s European partners. Past experience shows that making loans in exchange for reforms works. It is no coincidence that Ireland and Spain today have some of the highest growth rates in Europe and very low funding costs after successfully completing rescue loan programmes with demanding reforms.
In 2016, even Greece outperformed expectations, with a higher than anticipated growth rate and a primary surplus. Further delays could put this positive trend at risk.
The writer is managing director of the European Stability Mechanism
==========================================
Het eerste commentaar is golden.
Are you serious Klaus? I am sure such silly analysis did not get you to where you are now or perhaps it is exactly this ability to try and obfuscate an issue when it suits your needs that got you becoming the MD at ESN.
Let me try and understand the numerical parts of your argument here - a sober look at the facts - as you say :
1. EUR 107 bln scrapped by private sector
2. 40% reduction in the economic value of debt by public sector
3. Annual budgetary savings of EUR 8 billion which is 4.5% of GDP
4. Actual debt servicing cost is among the lowest in Europe and gross financing needs will continue to drop.
Awesome facts, thank you - but do any of them matter? I think not, the ones that do matter are -
A) how much surplus does Greece expect to make over the over the next 30 years
B) what does that surplus do to the debts over the next 30 years
You quite conveniently skip these basic facts?
IMF have announced their views in a loud and clear manner - there are few surpluses and hence an explosive growth in debt.
I think you can save a lot of words here and simply state your position - while IMF expects x, we expect y and hence expect our debts to be repaid.
Please do stick your neck out further so you can claim to be the superhero when your debts are paid back, not only were you a maverick in lending EUR 174 bln of taxpayers money, you had the foresight in Feb 2017 to forecast the rosy future that lies ahead for Greece, but should Greece default/ haircut the principal, people know whose neck to chop
quote:Greece: the low-noise collapse of an entire country
The Greek crisis is still there. European officials and the IMF have issued a new ultimatum to Alexis Tsipras. He has three weeks to present new austerity measures. Exhausted, the country is on the verge of financial, economic and moral collapse. Syriza officials are talking about getting out of the euro.
Vóór het internet dacht men dat de oorzaak van domheid een gebrek aan toegang tot informatie was. Inmiddels weten we beter.
Euro zone, IMF agree on a common stance on Greece: official
A Greek flag flutters in the wind as tourists visit the archaeological site of the Acropolis hill in Athens, Greece July 26, 2015. REUTERS/Ronen Zvulun/File Photo
Euro zone lenders and the International Monetary Fund have reached agreed between themselves to present a common stance to Greece later on Friday in talks on reforms and the fiscal path Athens must take, euro zone officials said.
Such a united stance would be a breakthrough because the two groups have differed for months on the size of the primary surplus Greece should reach in 2018 and maintain for years later as well as the issue of debt relief.
Those differences have hindered efforts to unlock further funding for Greece under its latest euro zone bailout program.
"There is agreement to present a united front to the Greeks," a senior euro zone official said, adding that the outcome of Friday's meeting with the Greeks was still unclear and it was unclear if Athens would accept the proposals.
"What comes out of it, we will see," the official said.
Financial markets took heart from the news, however. Greece's two-year bond yield fell almost 50 basis points to 9.55 percent. It hit the 10 percent mark on Thursday as worries about the bailout drove away buyers.
The chairman of euro zone finance ministers, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, said in The Hague that Friday's meeting, in which Greek Finance Minister Euclid Tsakalotos will take part, was to discuss the size of Greece's primary surplus.
The euro zone wants Greece to reach a primary surplus - which excludes interest repayments on debt - of 3.5 percent of gross domestic product and keep it there for many years.
But the IMF believes that with reforms in place now Greece will reach only 1.5 percent next year and in the following years and has therefore been pushing for Athens to legislate new measures that would safeguard the agreed euro zone targets.
Officials said the lenders would ask Greece to take 1.8 billion euros worth of new measures until 2018 and another 1.8 billion after 2018, focused on broadening the tax base and on pension cutbacks.
The Greek government, initially elected to fight against lend-imposed austerity, is loathe to make more cuts that will hit its battered citizens.
A united stance among euro zone governments and the IMF is a breakthrough because they have differed for months on the size of the primary surplus Greece should reach in 2018 and maintain for years later as well as the issue of debt relief.
Those differences have hindered efforts to unlock further funding for Greece under its latest euro zone bailout program.
Another euro zone official described the meeting as "important" and having the potential to break the stalemate that has blocked the signing off by lenders on a batch of Greek reforms and therefore the disbursement of loans to Athens.
=============================================
Ben benieuwd. Dat is een pakket wat de Grieken moet slikken anders valt de gehele steunoperatie weg.
A Greek flag flutters in the wind as tourists visit the archaeological site of the Acropolis hill in Athens, Greece July 26, 2015. REUTERS/Ronen Zvulun/File Photo
Euro zone lenders and the International Monetary Fund have reached agreed between themselves to present a common stance to Greece later on Friday in talks on reforms and the fiscal path Athens must take, euro zone officials said.
Such a united stance would be a breakthrough because the two groups have differed for months on the size of the primary surplus Greece should reach in 2018 and maintain for years later as well as the issue of debt relief.
Those differences have hindered efforts to unlock further funding for Greece under its latest euro zone bailout program.
"There is agreement to present a united front to the Greeks," a senior euro zone official said, adding that the outcome of Friday's meeting with the Greeks was still unclear and it was unclear if Athens would accept the proposals.
"What comes out of it, we will see," the official said.
Financial markets took heart from the news, however. Greece's two-year bond yield fell almost 50 basis points to 9.55 percent. It hit the 10 percent mark on Thursday as worries about the bailout drove away buyers.
The chairman of euro zone finance ministers, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, said in The Hague that Friday's meeting, in which Greek Finance Minister Euclid Tsakalotos will take part, was to discuss the size of Greece's primary surplus.
The euro zone wants Greece to reach a primary surplus - which excludes interest repayments on debt - of 3.5 percent of gross domestic product and keep it there for many years.
But the IMF believes that with reforms in place now Greece will reach only 1.5 percent next year and in the following years and has therefore been pushing for Athens to legislate new measures that would safeguard the agreed euro zone targets.
Officials said the lenders would ask Greece to take 1.8 billion euros worth of new measures until 2018 and another 1.8 billion after 2018, focused on broadening the tax base and on pension cutbacks.
The Greek government, initially elected to fight against lend-imposed austerity, is loathe to make more cuts that will hit its battered citizens.
A united stance among euro zone governments and the IMF is a breakthrough because they have differed for months on the size of the primary surplus Greece should reach in 2018 and maintain for years later as well as the issue of debt relief.
Those differences have hindered efforts to unlock further funding for Greece under its latest euro zone bailout program.
Another euro zone official described the meeting as "important" and having the potential to break the stalemate that has blocked the signing off by lenders on a batch of Greek reforms and therefore the disbursement of loans to Athens.
=============================================
Ben benieuwd. Dat is een pakket wat de Grieken moet slikken anders valt de gehele steunoperatie weg.
An exhausted countryquote:
The vacuity of all this austerity policy determined by certain financial ratios is obvious. European officials may argue that their bailout is working, they welcome the recovery of Greece and the budget surpluses, but the situation is quite different: passively we are witnessing the low-noise collapse of a whole country.
While forecasts foresee a rebound of the Greek economy in 2016, with growth of at least 2.6%, these risks once again prove to be false. If a slight start was recorded at the beginning of the year, it continued to slacken. In the last few months, the engine seems to have stalled. According to Markit figures published on February 1st, manufacturing activity recorded its largest decline in 15 months. "The decline is related to both the decline in production and new orders. While rising import prices have accelerated to their highest level in 70 months, companies nevertheless lower their selling prices," explains the economic and financial institute, pointing to the fall in consumption and the lack of outlets.
In seven years Greece's GDP decreased by a third. Unemployment affects 25% of the population and 40% of young people between 15 and 25 years. One third of companies have disappeared in five years. Successive cuts imposed everywhere in the name of austerity now bite in all regions. There are no more trains, no more buses in whole parts of the country. No more schools, sometimes. Many secondary schools had to close in the most remote corners because of lack of funding. Per capita spending on health has declined by a third since 2009, according to the OECD. More than 25,000 doctors were dismissed. Hospitals lack personnel, medicines, everything.
-----------------------------------------------
jemig
Uitgewoond en vermorzeld door de EUquote:Op vrijdag 10 februari 2017 14:45 schreef Drugshond het volgende:
[..]
An exhausted country
In seven years Greece's GDP decreased by a third. Unemployment affects 25% of the population and 40% of young people between 15 and 25 years. One third of companies have disappeared in five years. Successive cuts imposed everywhere in the name of austerity now bite in all regions. There are no more trains, no more buses in whole parts of the country. No more schools, sometimes. Many secondary schools had to close in the most remote corners because of lack of funding. Per capita spending on health has declined by a third since 2009, according to the OECD. More than 25,000 doctors were dismissed. Hospitals lack personnel, medicines, everything.
-----------------------------------------------
jemig
Vóór het internet dacht men dat de oorzaak van domheid een gebrek aan toegang tot informatie was. Inmiddels weten we beter.
Nee, door beleidsmakers die geholpen werden door Goldman Sachs naar de rand van de afgrond gebracht en toen de storm opstak de uitgestoken hand van de EU gepakt (ook boter op het hoofd, dat wel).quote:Op vrijdag 10 februari 2017 14:50 schreef Perrin het volgende:
[..]
Uitgewoond en vermorzeld door de EU
[ afbeelding ]
Nou lijkt mij kwijtschelding het enige verstandige (gedeeltelijke dan), maar dat is een gunst, geen recht.
Volgens het verdrag van Lissabon kan kwijtschelding alleen als het land zich daadwerkelijk uit de eurozone trekt.quote:Op vrijdag 10 februari 2017 15:11 schreef VEM2012 het volgende:
Nou lijkt mij kwijtschelding het enige verstandige (gedeeltelijke dan), maar dat is een gunst, geen recht.
Hoezo catch 22 ?!?
Griekenland is het klassieke voorbeeld om nog eens bedenkingen te hebben over de EU in het algemeen. Voor ons Nederlanders als logistiek/financiële doorvoerhaven is het wel gunstig. Maar voor sommige landen is het relatief zelfs slechter geworden.
• Italië (volgt een beetje hetzelfde Griekse pad, veel te veel oninbare schulden verstrekt door de banken). En politiek zo goed als onbestuurbaar.
• Portugal (hun banken komen nog niet eens op de stresstest voor, die zitten allemaal onder water)
• Spanje (Gaat het in de binnenlandse regio's ook niet goed, ook veel armoede). Catalonië wil graag autonoom verder.
• Italië (volgt een beetje hetzelfde Griekse pad, veel te veel oninbare schulden verstrekt door de banken). En politiek zo goed als onbestuurbaar.
• Portugal (hun banken komen nog niet eens op de stresstest voor, die zitten allemaal onder water)
• Spanje (Gaat het in de binnenlandse regio's ook niet goed, ook veel armoede). Catalonië wil graag autonoom verder.
Waar een wil is, is een weg zeg ik maar. Dan maak je het achtergesteld en renteloos.quote:Op vrijdag 10 februari 2017 15:17 schreef Drugshond het volgende:
[..]
Volgens het verdrag van Lissabon kan kwijtschelding alleen als het land zich daadwerkelijk uit de eurozone trekt.
Hoezo catch 22 ?!?
Mag hopen dat Dijsselbloem goede beveiliging heeft als er een meeting in Griekenland is. Die moet zo onderhand de meest gehate man in het land zijn.
ik ben niet gek.. ik ben volstrekt niet gek, ik ben helemaal niet gek... ik ben een nagemaakte gek
gooi alles weg neem een besluit, doe als het moet alles opnieuw
gooi alles weg neem een besluit, doe als het moet alles opnieuw
Zoiets maakt me buitengewoon nieuwsgierig om daar toch eens op vakantie te gaan.quote:
(over de koptelefoon).
Stilzwijgend is dat een beetje het pad waar ze inschieten.quote:
[..]
Waar een wil is, is een weg zeg ik maar. Dan maak je het achtergesteld en renteloos.
Vele landen (en banken) hebben nog steeds een flinke blootstelling aan Griekenland. En anders het ECB wel.
Prima om er met een bootje te varen. Op de eilanden merk je er niets van.quote:
[..]
Zoiets maakt me buitengewoon nieuwsgierig om daar toch eens op vakantie te gaan.
(over de koptelefoon).
Het Griekse pensioensysteem wordt zodanig hervormt dat het pensioen meer afhankelijk wordt van het aantal arbeidsjaren. Velen gaan er flink op achteruit. Er zijn ook mensen met een lang arbeidsverleden en een laag pensioen die er op voorruit gaan.quote:Griekenland snijdt dieper in de pensioenen
Griekenland gaat de pensioenen in 2019 verder verlagen en de belastingen gaan omhoog. Het land heeft dit na urenlang overleg vanochtend vroeg afgesproken met z'n schuldeisers.
Begin vorige maand werd er op hoofdlijnen al een akkoord bereikt. Over de details moest er nog overeenstemming komen. "Er is witte rook", zei de Griekse minister van Financiën, Euclid Tsakalotos, vanmorgen vroeg. "Er is overeenstemming op alle fronten. De weg is nu vrij voor gesprekken over schuldverlichting."
Door de extra bezuinigingen stijgt het begrotingsoverschot van de Grieken de komende jaren. In 2018 wordt er een overschot geraamd van 2,2 procent. In de jaren daarna stijgt het overschot naar 3,5 procent.
Dan moeten de nieuwe maatregelen wel voor die tijd zijn doorgevoerd. Het Griekse parlement moet er nog mee instemmen.
Terugbetalen
De afgelopen zes maanden is er onderhandeld tussen Griekenland, de Europese Unie en het IMF over uitbetaling van een nieuw deel van de lening aan de Grieken. Het was van belang dat er voor juli een akkoord kwam. Griekenland moet dan minstens 6 miljard euro aan schuldeisers terugbetalen.
Later deze maand komen de ministers van Financiën van de eurolanden bijeen om te praten over de Griekse schulden.
Considerable cuts are coming to 1.4 million pensions from 2019quote:Those to suffer the biggest cuts will be those with high pensions who departed after relatively few years of work, with their reduction amounting to 40 percent in some cases. However, there will also be some people on quite low pensions who can expect to see a rise in their monthly benefits, in some cases reaching up to 20 percent, if they have retired after many years of work.
Geld maakt meer kapot dan je lief is.
Het zijn sterke ruggen die vrijheid en weelde kunnen dragen
Het zijn sterke ruggen die vrijheid en weelde kunnen dragen
Dus het pensioensysteem wordt meer in overeenstemming gebracht met wat er daadwerkelijk is gespaard. Goede zaak derhalve.quote:
[..]
Het Griekse pensioensysteem wordt zodanig hervormt dat het pensioen meer afhankelijk wordt van het aantal arbeidsjaren. Velen gaan er flink op achteruit. Er zijn ook mensen met een lang arbeidsverleden en een laag pensioen die er op voorruit gaan.
[..]
Considerable cuts are coming to 1.4 million pensions from 2019
Zo veilig is een pensioen dus... niet. Je zou bijna zeggen dat het een aantasting van je mensenrechten is om verplucht mee te doen met een pensioenregeling als je zo bedonderd kan worden.
ik ben niet gek.. ik ben volstrekt niet gek, ik ben helemaal niet gek... ik ben een nagemaakte gek
gooi alles weg neem een besluit, doe als het moet alles opnieuw
gooi alles weg neem een besluit, doe als het moet alles opnieuw
Redelijk onvoorspelbaar hoe het zal gaan. Zonder een schuldreductie is de Griekse staatsschuld op geen enkele manier houdbaar. Ik heb het meest recente IMF-rapport helemaal gelezen en zij voorspellen dat de Griekse staatsschuld de komende jaren zal dalen, om eenmaal teruggekeerd op de financiële markten te stijgen tot enkele honderden procenten van het BBP. Die reductie is dus essentieel, maar Duitsland wil daar niet aan. Zeker niet in de aanloop naar de Duitse verkiezingen in september. Tegelijkertijd willen de Duitsers wel het IMF aan boord houden, maar Lagarde heeft aangegeven dat enkel te zullen doen als die reductie er wel komt.
To be continued...
To be continued...
Er zijn wel meer landen die dan ook geïnteresseerd zijn in schuldreductie.quote:
Redelijk onvoorspelbaar hoe het zal gaan. Zonder een schuldreductie is de Griekse staatsschuld op geen enkele manier houdbaar. Ik heb het meest recente IMF-rapport helemaal gelezen en zij voorspellen dat de Griekse staatsschuld de komende jaren zal dalen, om eenmaal teruggekeerd op de financiële markten te stijgen tot enkele honderden procenten van het BBP. Die reductie is dus essentieel, maar Duitsland wil daar niet aan. Zeker niet in de aanloop naar de Duitse verkiezingen in september. Tegelijkertijd willen de Duitsers wel het IMF aan boord houden, maar Lagarde heeft aangegeven dat enkel te zullen doen als die reductie er wel komt.
To be continued...
Vóór het internet dacht men dat de oorzaak van domheid een gebrek aan toegang tot informatie was. Inmiddels weten we beter.
Pensioenrechten zijn zo veilig niet. In Duitsland bijv. wordt een groot deel van de pensioenen betaald uit omslag. De pensioenpremie is echter aan een strakke grens gebonden. De koek wordt verdeeld over het aantal gepensioeneerden. Vandaar dat de pensioenen er steeds kariger worden omdat de verhouding actieven/inactiven sterk verschuift vanwege de vergrijzing.quote:
Zo veilig is een pensioen dus... niet. Je zou bijna zeggen dat het een aantasting van je mensenrechten is om verplucht mee te doen met een pensioenregeling als je zo bedonderd kan worden.
Wie sicher ist die Rente?
[ Bericht 7% gewijzigd door Digi2 op 03-05-2017 11:45:37 ]
Geld maakt meer kapot dan je lief is.
Het zijn sterke ruggen die vrijheid en weelde kunnen dragen
Het zijn sterke ruggen die vrijheid en weelde kunnen dragen
Griekenland heeft al een aanzienlijke schuldenreductie gehad. Probleem is vooral dat het BNP zo sterk gedaald is. Het BNP berustte immers voor een groot deel op geleend geld dat verdween in ambtenaren salarissen, pensioenen en VUT regelingen. Oftwel een zeer groot deel van de griekse economie was fictie en niet productief.quote:
[..]
Er zijn wel meer landen die dan ook geïnteresseerd zijn in schuldreductie.
Geld maakt meer kapot dan je lief is.
Het zijn sterke ruggen die vrijheid en weelde kunnen dragen
Het zijn sterke ruggen die vrijheid en weelde kunnen dragen
Dat was die 'haircut' idd.quote:
[..]
Griekenland heeft al een aanzienlijke schuldenreductie gehad. Probleem is vooral dat het BNP zo sterk gedaald is. Het BNP berustte immers voor een groot deel op geleend geld dat verdween in ambtenaren salarissen, pensioenen en VUT regelingen. Oftwel een zeer groot deel van de griekse economie was fictie en niet productief.
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Vóór het internet dacht men dat de oorzaak van domheid een gebrek aan toegang tot informatie was. Inmiddels weten we beter.
De zuidelijke corrupte landen hadden nooit bij een EU moeten zitten, hetzelfde geldt voor de Oostblok landen. En ze leren het niet, kijk maar een Oekraïne....
In ieder geval niet bij de Euro.quote:
De zuidelijke corrupte landen hadden nooit bij een EU moeten zitten, hetzelfde geldt voor de Oostblok landen. En ze leren het niet, kijk maar een Oekraïne....
Griekenland was een soort van sociaal economisch experiment. Kijken hoe ver je kunt gaan voor een bevolking het opgeeft om nog in opstand te komen tegen economische oorlogsvoering.
Het zijn de Nazi's all over again, maar nu met Euro's in plaats van tanks en kampen.
Het zijn de Nazi's all over again, maar nu met Euro's in plaats van tanks en kampen.
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