Indianen
Hier kan je alles kwijt over indianen. Behalve curry, dat is wat anders...
Ik kan de levensstijl van de authentieke Indianen erg waarderen. Veel van hun wijsheden en gezegde spreken mij dan ook aan.
Laten we hier enkele Indiaanse wijsheden en gezegden opsommen.
Ik zal aftrappen met mijn favoriete.
"Only After the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find that
money cannot be eaten."
Dit is zo treffend.
Helaas realiseren maar weinig mensen zich dit.
Laten we hier enkele Indiaanse wijsheden en gezegden opsommen.
Ik zal aftrappen met mijn favoriete.
"Only After the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find that
money cannot be eaten."
Dit is zo treffend.
Helaas realiseren maar weinig mensen zich dit.
altijd interessant
Op maandag 1 oktober 2012 18:45 schreef Chocolatebear het volgende:
Zei de man, terwijl hij een shaggie opstak en het gas open trok van zijn Tomos.
Zei de man, terwijl hij een shaggie opstak en het gas open trok van zijn Tomos.
Deze uitspraak komt van Chief Seattle uit een rede welke hij gaf in 1855. Het gaat over het onbegrip om land e.d. te kunnen verkopen of bezitten.
""Hoe kun je de lucht bezitten? "
Edit: het past wel hier trouwens, het is niet een enorme lap tekst.
CHIEF SEATTLE SPEAKS
A Speech by Chief Seattle of the Dwamish Tribe in 1855
THE GREAT CHIEF in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land. The Great Chief also sends us words of friendship and good will. This is kind of him, since we know he has little need of our friendship in return. But we will consider your offer, for we know if we do not do so, the white man may come with guns and take our land. What Chief Seattle says you can count on as truly as our white brothers can count on the return of the seasons. My words are like the stars - they do not set.
How can you buy or sell the sky - the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us. Yet we do not own the freshness of the air or the sparkle of the water. How can you buy them from us? We will decide in our time. Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing, and every humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people.
We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy, and when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his father's graves and his children's birthright is forgotten. The sight of your cities pains the eyes of the redman. But perhaps it is because the redman is a savage and does not understand.
There is no quiet place in the white man's cities. No place to listen to the leaves of spring or the rustle of insect wings. But perhaps because I am a savage and do not understand - the clatter only seems to insult the ears. And what is there to life if a man cannot hear the lovely cry of the whippoorwill or the arguments of the frogs around a pond at night? The Indian prefers the soft sound of the wind itself cleansed by a mid-day rain, or scented by a pinõn pine: the air is precious to the redman. For all things share the same breath - the beasts, the trees, and man. The white man does not seem to notice the air he breathes. Like a man dying for many days, he is numb to the stench.
If I decide to accept, I will make one condition. The white man must treat the beasts of this land as his brothers. I am a savage and I do not understand any other way. I have seen thousands of rotting buffaloes on the prairie left by the white man who shot them from a passing train. I am a savage and do not understand how the smoking iron horse can be more important than the buffalo that we kill only to stay alive. What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beast also happens to the man.
All things are connected. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of the earth. Our children have seen their fathers humbled in defeat. Our warriors have felt shame. And after defeat they turn their days in idleness and contaminate their bodies with sweet food and strong drink. It matters little where we pass the rest of our days - they are not many. A few more hours, a few more winters, and none of the children of the great tribes that once lived on this earth, or that roamed in small bands in the woods will remain to mourn the graves of the people once as powerful and hopeful as yours.
One thing we know that the white man may one day discover. Our God is the same God. You may think that you own him as you wish to own our land, but you cannot. He is the Body of man, and his compassion is equal for the redman and the white. This earth is precious to him, and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its Creator. The whites, too, shall pass - perhaps sooner than other tribes.
Continue to contaminate your bed, and you will one night suffocate in your own waste. When the buffalo are all slaughtered, the wild horses all tamed, the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men, and the view of the ripe hills blotted by the talking wires, where is the thicket? Gone. Where is the eagle? Gone. And what is it to say goodbye to the swift and the hunt? The end of living and the beginning of survival.
We might understand if we knew what it was the white man dreams, what hopes he describes to his children on long winter nights, what visions he burns into their minds, so they will wish for tomorrow. But we are savages. The white man's dreams are hidden from us. And because they are hidden, we will go our own way. If we agree, it will be to secure your reservation you have promised.
There perhaps we may live out our brief days as we wish. When the last redman has vanished from the earth, and the memory is only the shadow of a cloud passing over the prairie, these shores and forests will still hold the spirits of my people, for they love this earth as the newborn loves its mother's heartbeat. If we sell you our land, love it as we have loved it. Care for it as we have cared for it. Hold in your memory the way the land is as you take it.
And with all your strength, with all your might, and with all your heart - preserve it for your children, and love it as God loves us all. One thing we know - our God is the same. This earth is precious to him. Even the white man cannot escape the common destiny.
Er zijn meerdere versies van de rede, maar ik vind dit 1 van de mooiste.
""Hoe kun je de lucht bezitten? "
Edit: het past wel hier trouwens, het is niet een enorme lap tekst.
CHIEF SEATTLE SPEAKS
A Speech by Chief Seattle of the Dwamish Tribe in 1855
THE GREAT CHIEF in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land. The Great Chief also sends us words of friendship and good will. This is kind of him, since we know he has little need of our friendship in return. But we will consider your offer, for we know if we do not do so, the white man may come with guns and take our land. What Chief Seattle says you can count on as truly as our white brothers can count on the return of the seasons. My words are like the stars - they do not set.
How can you buy or sell the sky - the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us. Yet we do not own the freshness of the air or the sparkle of the water. How can you buy them from us? We will decide in our time. Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing, and every humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people.
We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy, and when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his father's graves and his children's birthright is forgotten. The sight of your cities pains the eyes of the redman. But perhaps it is because the redman is a savage and does not understand.
There is no quiet place in the white man's cities. No place to listen to the leaves of spring or the rustle of insect wings. But perhaps because I am a savage and do not understand - the clatter only seems to insult the ears. And what is there to life if a man cannot hear the lovely cry of the whippoorwill or the arguments of the frogs around a pond at night? The Indian prefers the soft sound of the wind itself cleansed by a mid-day rain, or scented by a pinõn pine: the air is precious to the redman. For all things share the same breath - the beasts, the trees, and man. The white man does not seem to notice the air he breathes. Like a man dying for many days, he is numb to the stench.
If I decide to accept, I will make one condition. The white man must treat the beasts of this land as his brothers. I am a savage and I do not understand any other way. I have seen thousands of rotting buffaloes on the prairie left by the white man who shot them from a passing train. I am a savage and do not understand how the smoking iron horse can be more important than the buffalo that we kill only to stay alive. What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beast also happens to the man.
All things are connected. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of the earth. Our children have seen their fathers humbled in defeat. Our warriors have felt shame. And after defeat they turn their days in idleness and contaminate their bodies with sweet food and strong drink. It matters little where we pass the rest of our days - they are not many. A few more hours, a few more winters, and none of the children of the great tribes that once lived on this earth, or that roamed in small bands in the woods will remain to mourn the graves of the people once as powerful and hopeful as yours.
One thing we know that the white man may one day discover. Our God is the same God. You may think that you own him as you wish to own our land, but you cannot. He is the Body of man, and his compassion is equal for the redman and the white. This earth is precious to him, and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its Creator. The whites, too, shall pass - perhaps sooner than other tribes.
Continue to contaminate your bed, and you will one night suffocate in your own waste. When the buffalo are all slaughtered, the wild horses all tamed, the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men, and the view of the ripe hills blotted by the talking wires, where is the thicket? Gone. Where is the eagle? Gone. And what is it to say goodbye to the swift and the hunt? The end of living and the beginning of survival.
We might understand if we knew what it was the white man dreams, what hopes he describes to his children on long winter nights, what visions he burns into their minds, so they will wish for tomorrow. But we are savages. The white man's dreams are hidden from us. And because they are hidden, we will go our own way. If we agree, it will be to secure your reservation you have promised.
There perhaps we may live out our brief days as we wish. When the last redman has vanished from the earth, and the memory is only the shadow of a cloud passing over the prairie, these shores and forests will still hold the spirits of my people, for they love this earth as the newborn loves its mother's heartbeat. If we sell you our land, love it as we have loved it. Care for it as we have cared for it. Hold in your memory the way the land is as you take it.
And with all your strength, with all your might, and with all your heart - preserve it for your children, and love it as God loves us all. One thing we know - our God is the same. This earth is precious to him. Even the white man cannot escape the common destiny.
Er zijn meerdere versies van de rede, maar ik vind dit 1 van de mooiste.
Inderdaad. Als iedereen een beetje naar dat motto zou leven zou de wereld een stuk leefbaarder zijn.quote:Op donderdag 21 april 2011 20:02 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
Die uit de OP is zo simpel, maar gewoon geniaal.
Sommigen mensen zijn zo egoïstisch ingesteld dat ze stellen dat hen dat niet zo overkomen (dat tijdens de periode dat zij leven het nog (net) niet zo ver zal komen)
Voor hen is er nog een briljante Indiaanse wijsheid:
We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
we borrow it from our Children.
(Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents,
it was loaned to you by your children.)
Dat vind ik echt een bijzonder deugdelijk uitgangspunt
The weakness of the enemy makes our strength. - Cherokee
Do not judge your neighbor until you walk two moons in his moccasins. - Cheyenne
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep. - Navajo
[ Bericht 45% gewijzigd door GGMM op 21-04-2011 21:25:31 ]
Do not judge your neighbor until you walk two moons in his moccasins. - Cheyenne
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep. - Navajo
[ Bericht 45% gewijzigd door GGMM op 21-04-2011 21:25:31 ]
quote:
Die uit de OP is zo simpel, maar gewoon geniaal.
dat is het enige juiste woord !
Ik had een paar dagen geleden wat gezegdes verzameld, toen kwam ik ook deze tegen:
Staat op veel site's aangegeven dat het een Chinees spreekwoord is, maar hij staat ook vaak tussen Indiaanse gezegdes, hoe dan ook wel waard op te posten.quote:Tell me and I'll forget. Show me, and I may not remember. Involve me, and I'll understand.
Iedereen is een huis met vier kamers,
een lichamelijke,
een mentale,
een sociale en
een spirituele.
De meesten van ons zijn geneigd om in één kamer te leven.
Maar zolang we niet iedere dag in iedere kamer komen, al was het maar om ze te luchten,
dan zijn we geen heel mens.
een lichamelijke,
een mentale,
een sociale en
een spirituele.
De meesten van ons zijn geneigd om in één kamer te leven.
Maar zolang we niet iedere dag in iedere kamer komen, al was het maar om ze te luchten,
dan zijn we geen heel mens.
You have noticed that everything an Indian does in a circle,
and that is because the Power of the World always works in circles,
and everything and everything tries to be round.
In the old days all our power came to us from the sacred hoop
of the nation and so long as the hoop was unbroken the people
flourished. The flowering tree was the living center of the hoop,
and the circle of the four quarters nourished it. The east gave peace
and light, the south gave warmth, the west gave rain and the north
with its cold and mighty wind gave strength and endurance. This
knowledge came to us from the outer world with our religion.
Everything the power of the world does is done in a circle.
The sky is round and I have heard that the earth is round like a ball
and so are all the stars. The wind, in its greatest power, whirls.
Birds make their nests in circles, for theirs is the same religion as ours.
The sun comes forth and goes down again in a circle. The moon
does the same and both are round. Even the seasons form a great
circle in their changing and always come back again to where they were.
The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is
in everything where power moves. Our teepees were round like the
nests of birds, and these were always set in a circle, the nation's hoop,
a nest of many nests, where the Great Spirit meant for us to hatch our children.
and that is because the Power of the World always works in circles,
and everything and everything tries to be round.
In the old days all our power came to us from the sacred hoop
of the nation and so long as the hoop was unbroken the people
flourished. The flowering tree was the living center of the hoop,
and the circle of the four quarters nourished it. The east gave peace
and light, the south gave warmth, the west gave rain and the north
with its cold and mighty wind gave strength and endurance. This
knowledge came to us from the outer world with our religion.
Everything the power of the world does is done in a circle.
The sky is round and I have heard that the earth is round like a ball
and so are all the stars. The wind, in its greatest power, whirls.
Birds make their nests in circles, for theirs is the same religion as ours.
The sun comes forth and goes down again in a circle. The moon
does the same and both are round. Even the seasons form a great
circle in their changing and always come back again to where they were.
The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is
in everything where power moves. Our teepees were round like the
nests of birds, and these were always set in a circle, the nation's hoop,
a nest of many nests, where the Great Spirit meant for us to hatch our children.
Mooie rede van Chief Seattle.
Deze uitspraak past er eigenlijk wel bij:
"How smooth must be the language of the whites, when they can make right look like wrong, and wrong like right."
-Black Hawk, Sauk-(1767-1838) Ma-ka-tai-me-she-kia-kiak
"Although wrongs have been done to me, I live in hopes. I have not got two hearts... Now we are together again to make peace. My shame is as big as the earth, although I will do what my friends have advised me to do. I once thought that I was the only man that persevered to be the friend of the white man, but since they have come and cleaned out our lodges, horses and everything else, it is hard for me to believe the white men any more."
Black Kettle - Cheyenne (???-1868)
"You must speak straight so that your words may go as sunlight into our hearts. Speak Americans.. I will not lie to you; do not lie to me."
Cochise, (Hardwood) Chiracahua Apache (1812-1874)
Deze uitspraak past er eigenlijk wel bij:
"How smooth must be the language of the whites, when they can make right look like wrong, and wrong like right."
-Black Hawk, Sauk-(1767-1838) Ma-ka-tai-me-she-kia-kiak
"Although wrongs have been done to me, I live in hopes. I have not got two hearts... Now we are together again to make peace. My shame is as big as the earth, although I will do what my friends have advised me to do. I once thought that I was the only man that persevered to be the friend of the white man, but since they have come and cleaned out our lodges, horses and everything else, it is hard for me to believe the white men any more."
Black Kettle - Cheyenne (???-1868)
"You must speak straight so that your words may go as sunlight into our hearts. Speak Americans.. I will not lie to you; do not lie to me."
Cochise, (Hardwood) Chiracahua Apache (1812-1874)
Canassatego
"We know our lands have now become more valuable. The white people think we do not know their value; but we know that the land is everlasting, and the few goods we receive for it are soon worn out and gone."
"We know our lands have now become more valuable. The white people think we do not know their value; but we know that the land is everlasting, and the few goods we receive for it are soon worn out and gone."
"Respect means listening until everyone has been heard and understood, only then is there a possibility of "Balance and Harmony" the goal of Indian Spirituality."
- Dave Chief, Grandfather of Red Dog
- Dave Chief, Grandfather of Red Dog
De OP is inderdaad simpelweg briljant.
In tijden van crisis moet je niet met lastenverhogingen komen.
Ik heb die hele speech eens gelezen en ik was behoorlijk onder de indruk. Maar wat het meeste indruk op mij maakte was hoe actueel zijn speech na 150 jaar nog is.quote:
Deze uitspraak komt van Chief Seattle uit een rede welke hij gaf in 1855. Het gaat over het onbegrip om land e.d. te kunnen verkopen of bezitten.
""Hoe kun je de lucht bezitten? "
CHIEF SEATTLE SPEAKS
A Speech by Chief Seattle of the Dwamish Tribe in 1855
Eigenlijk zou iedereen die speech eens gelezen moeten hebben.
Op zaterdag 14 april 2012 23:50 schreef innepin het volgende: Rucky en Merlijn zijn tof.
Op donderdag 21 juni 2012 00:22 schreef Papabear het volgende: We kennen elkaar, daten elkaar, doen elkaar en helpen elkaar. FHF O+
Op vrijdag 17 december 2010 13:58 schreef smegmanus het volgende: FOK!kers, hard van buiten. Zacht van binnen 8-)
Op donderdag 21 juni 2012 00:22 schreef Papabear het volgende: We kennen elkaar, daten elkaar, doen elkaar en helpen elkaar. FHF O+
Op vrijdag 17 december 2010 13:58 schreef smegmanus het volgende: FOK!kers, hard van buiten. Zacht van binnen 8-)
Wauw!quote:Op donderdag 21 april 2011 20:15 schreef Gulo het volgende:
(Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents,
it was loaned to you by your children.) [/i]
[ afbeelding ]
Dat vind ik echt een bijzonder deugdelijk uitgangspunt
The truth was in here.
Ik heb een boekje met gelijknamige titel, isbn 978062241989quote:
Deze uitspraak komt van Chief Seattle uit een rede welke hij gaf in 1855. Het gaat over het onbegrip om land e.d. te kunnen verkopen of bezitten.
""Hoe kun je de lucht bezitten? "
Uit het boekje:
"Onze doden zullen nooit
deze prachtige aarde vergeten
Ze is hun moeder
Ze zullen zich altijd haar rivieren,
haar grootse bergen,
haar valleien herinneren en deze liefhebben
Ze verlangen naar de levenden
die ook eenzaam zijn
en die naar de doden verlangen
En hun geesten komen vaak terug
om ons te bezoeken en op te beuren."
When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice. -
"There is no death, only a change of worlds."
"Before eating, take time to thank the food."
"It's easy to be brave from a distance."
De Tien Geboden van de Indianen:
1. Treat the Earth and all that dwell therein with respect
2. Remain close to the Great Spirit
3. Show great respect for your fellow beings
4. Work together for the benefit of all Mankind
5. Give assistance and kindness wherever needed
6. Do what you know to be right
7. Look after the well-being of Mind and Body
8. Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater Good
9. Be truthful and honest at all times
10. Take full responsibility for your actions
Crazy Horse over George Armstrong Custer:
"All we wanted was peace and to be left alone. Soldiers came and destroyed our villages. Then Long Hair came... They say we massacred him, but he would have done the same to us. Our first impulse was to escape but we were so hemmed in we had to fight."
"Before eating, take time to thank the food."
"It's easy to be brave from a distance."
De Tien Geboden van de Indianen:
1. Treat the Earth and all that dwell therein with respect
2. Remain close to the Great Spirit
3. Show great respect for your fellow beings
4. Work together for the benefit of all Mankind
5. Give assistance and kindness wherever needed
6. Do what you know to be right
7. Look after the well-being of Mind and Body
8. Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater Good
9. Be truthful and honest at all times
10. Take full responsibility for your actions
Crazy Horse over George Armstrong Custer:
"All we wanted was peace and to be left alone. Soldiers came and destroyed our villages. Then Long Hair came... They say we massacred him, but he would have done the same to us. Our first impulse was to escape but we were so hemmed in we had to fight."
With my pack on my back, down the road I will stray.
Humankind has not woven the web of life.
We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
All things are bound together.
All things connect.
Chief Seattle, 1854
Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men,
we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket,
he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being
was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians,
therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know
how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things
that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society.
John (Fire) Lame Deer
Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976
We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
All things are bound together.
All things connect.
Chief Seattle, 1854
Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men,
we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket,
he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being
was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians,
therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know
how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things
that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society.
John (Fire) Lame Deer
Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976
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